And that sort of liability will likely put an end to this sort of unnecessary training.

The ONLY aspect of MOUT training that cannot be duplicated on a military base is the unpredictable nature of conducting these operations in civilian areas. Which is precisely what lead to these unfortunate shootings.

SF, you are correct that the truth will come out in the end. You say the SO provides a story beneficial to them. Well, so do you. My money says this is the military's fuck up. If they are going to train in an environment where it is very likely that contact will be made with civilians unaware of the exercise being undertaken, I say the military has the greater responsibility to widely publicize the event and make sure EVERYONE is in the loop. If the Deputy called in the plates, why didn't a flag identifying it as participating in a military exercise immediately pop up?

Convenient that none of the miltary defenders have yet aswered the question regarding what would occur should a civilian with a CCW happen upon a Deputy fighting with a couple of skinheads on the side of the road.

For those looking to place blame on some one here is a part of a email I receive daily from the Army Times.

Training Death Prompts Army To Review Its Procedures
[New York Times, February 26, 2002]
The Army will probe events that led to the killing of a U.S. soldier by a sheriff’s deputy during a training exercise.

Tape Reveals Deputy’s Actions
Shootings listed as self-defense
[Fayetteville Observer, February 26, 2002]
The Moore County Sheriff’s Office said tapes indicate that the deputy who shot two Army Special Forces trainees, killing one, acted in the correct manner and was justified in using deadly force.

Fort Bragg: Police Not Told Details Of Training
[USA Today, February 26, 2002, Pg. 4]
Army officials never notified county officials about a training exercise that would have Fort Bragg soldiers posing as civilians in a Green Beret mock mission.

Army To Pick Lead Developer Of Futuristic Combat System
[Washington Post, February 25, 2002, Pg. 21]
The will soon pick a contractor to develop the technology for a new ground combat network to replace tanks and other armored vehicles with manned and robotic land cruisers, directed-energy weapons and unmanned aerial vehicles---all connected by advanced intelligence sensors and data networks

Some more info...

[url]http://www.wral.com/news/1255002/detail.html[/url]

I guess I'll have to andwer my own post.
[b]Rules of the Game

#1) All cops should be psychics
#2) All cops, when conducting stops in a known area of both military training and a history of violent neo-nazi activity, should wipe their minds clean of any previous training (and common sense) they may have.
#3)All cops will keep in mind, that just because you mace one suspect, then are attacked (again) by another suspect, that this could still be a military "training" exercise. Refrain from "over reacting" until the suspect either shoots you with your own weapon, or identifies himself.
(To be continued)[/b]

[b](continued
#4) All civilians, no matter where you are shall ignore, (just as the above post was ignored), any any activities that may look like a police officer is being attacked by anyone.(doublely true if they look like neo-nazis)
#5) ALL citizens shall henceforth remember that your govt. does no wrong, is always truthful, and by extension, all military matters shall never be questioned[/b]
I was in the military from '65-'68. Did two combat tours in SE Asia. After those tours, I reached the conclusion that we were wrong being there, and wrong in our strategy in fighting if we were going to be there. My governments policies killed over 58,000 of my bros (and a few sisters). I see the same "my country right or wrong" atitude by some in this thread, only it's "my military". May I remind you, that in a Republic, it is your DUTY to question your govt. Having visited many foreign countries, and lived in some, I can assure you NONE are like towns and people here. Garand man, I don't have to go to Iraq to know it's MUCH different, probably more like fear described, than anytown USA. No one has chosen to answer my post about the civilian above. Do I take point match by default??
Just wanna add this, I've run into some cops who were a**holes. I also know some who probably are like fear. Most of the references to the cop involved in the shooting are putting him down. Has it occurred to you that he may be so devestated by this that he can no longer continue in his job? What if he does go back to work, and is confronted by some real "neo-nazis", but hesitates because it may be a "military excercise"?(ans. cop toast, another funeral) What about his fellow officers in that area TODAY when they do a stop? Will a hesitation kill one? What about the civilian in my scenario above, who waxs' 2 SF trainees? [b]Or gets waxed![/b]

I see a cop getting his ass whipped, and a "skinhead with a weapon half out, I've seen all I need to..... The guy assembling (or holding) the weapon is toast....This is definately a "life threatining or serious bodily injury" situation. I AIN"T asking if it's a "game"!

Just want to say here, I was writing my posts above, and had not seen the latest by acftgrunt, TAPES???????

Case Closed, point match......
What a f**king avoidable tragedy.......

As far as waht a CCW would do, that would depend on the individual as much as anything.  Form personal experience, I would stop and help the officer.  Been there, done that.  Problem was it was a taping of "Real Stories of the Highway Patrol".[:D]  I hung around for a while to watch the taping, and a further four times cars stopped to help the trooper getting his ass kicked by the bad guy.  The situation was that of a cop who got shot in a stop gone wrong.  After the fifth good samaritan to stop interrupted taping, one of the troopers (all the actors were highway patrolmen) blocked the road long enough to complete the take.  To get the angle of the shot, the camera was set-up behind a tree and was impossible to see from the road.  All of us who were watching (the number grew as more people stopped to help!) had to hide behind a minivan to be out of the shot.  When the next guy pulled up to help we'd all come running out yelling, stuff like, "Whoa, whoa, it's a movie, it's a movie!"  Even then it took a few seconds for folks to react to it and stop.  

I learned that day that I would stop to help.  I learned that day that alot of people would stop to help.  The Troopers learned that day that alot of people would stop to help, and they were some what ammazed that so many people would stop to help them, even the unarmed ones.  

As far as realistic training goes, I'm all for it.  The more realistic it is though, the more risk is involved, and the more controls need to be put into place.  Those controls were, by the Army's own admission, not in place in this case, as the Moore SO was not to be involved.  Irregardless of how either party handled themselves, the actual root cause of the accident was the control gap that occured when the Deputy was not to be a participant, but wound-up in the play anyway.   Not as sexy as bashing the SF or the SD, but that's the cause.

Ross

 I don't know what you are calling me, but it looks pretty immature. First off, these guys are not SF's yet. They are kids in training. They don't have years of training in hand to hand combat with an armed adversary. Now you, since you are a COMPUTER COMMANDO would jump down there and kick this Deputy's ass. But I (and this kid if he didn't want to get shot) should have thrown his hands up WHEN HE REALIZED THAT THE DEPUTY WAS NOT PART OF THE GAME.
 The LT very well could have given the SSG the order to fire when he got maced because he thinks that they are playing. The Deputy doesn't know that they are playing. When he hears that, what is he going to do?
 I am in no way disrespecting the Military or Special Forces  here. I just think they are wrong given the facts provided. On the other hand, many have called the Deputy an idiot, Barney Fife, jackass, knee-jerk and a multitude of other things (you called him a crazy killer!) when it is appearing that he acted exactly as he should have.

From USA Today, reflecting local news stories...

Fort Bragg: Police not told details of training
Tue Feb 26, 6:30 AM ET
Larry Copeland and Deborah Sharp USA TODAY

[red]Army officials at Fort Bragg said Monday that they never specifically told authorities in a North Carolina county, where a sheriff's deputy killed one soldier and wounded another over the weekend, that the soldiers would be posing as civilians in a Green Berets training mission.[/red]

The deputy shot two men he thought were attacking him after he pulled their pickup over on a rural road nearly 30 miles northwest of Fort Bragg on Saturday, officials say.

The soldiers were participating in a training exercise that was part of their final exam for becoming members of the Army Special Forces Green Berets. They apparently thought the deputy was also taking part in their training.

''Nobody in the sheriff's office had been told (about the mission),'' Capt. Greg Maness of the Moore County Sheriff's Department said.

''Randolph County, an adjoining county, had participated in this exercise about two weeks ago, but we didn't,'' Maness said. ''We found out after everything had happened that Randolph County had done a similar scenario, where officers were used on something similar and told beforehand.''

[red]Carol Darby, media chief for the Army Special Operations Command, which includes the Special Forces, said Moore County authorities were informed that the exercise was planned in their county but were not told specifically about the soldiers' mission.[/red]

''There was no expectation of police involvement,'' Darby said.

[blue]The deputy, Randall Butler, is a 15-year law enforcement veteran who was an investigator with the police department in Sanford, N.C., before joining the sheriff's office about a year ago.[/blue]

''He's upset,'' Maness said. ''Normally, you would be in a shooting situation. I've talked to him every day since it happened. He's doing fairly well, considering.''

The soldiers were identified Monday by Fort Bragg. First Lt. Tallas Tomeny was killed, and Sgt. Stephen Phelps was wounded. Their ages and hometowns were not released. The Tampa Tribune reported that Phelps is a former resident of Clearwater, Fla.

Phelps' condition was upgraded from serious to fair at FirstHealth Moore Regional Hospital in Pinehurst, N.C.

Phelps' grandmother, Ann Wells, said Phelps and his wife, Suzanne, have a 2-year-old daughter.

****************************************

Apperently the Army told someone there would be an excerise but gave no details, and didn't expect contact.

The Deputy appears to have worked somewhere else most of his career, so maybe he wasn't up to speed on the "operations" stuff.

I think that both soldiers and the Deputy were probably doing what they were trained to do. An on duty LEO is not going to be disarmed if they can prevent it. The "Onion Field" was based on a real incident.

CHL Guys: If you lived near an army base and they indicated they would be do some of base ops. And you came into contact with 2 military looking guys that tried to take your car or gun away would you let them or not? Why do I think that most people wouldn't count on guessing who was attacking them and why, they would defend themselves.

Another lame post from the AR15.com Cop Bashers Society......

Yawn!

My understanding from reading several articles is that several LEA's were informed of the excercise including specifics of who. when, where, how many, etc. But since the only "missions" near Dep. Butlers area were low risk no contact recon types his SO was not given an specifics on the "missions" in their area.



Read the link by no-name, flannel shirts and blue jeans. Looks are not a good indicator of anything. What did Timothy McViegh, or Charles Whittman look like?



OK, if he is aware of the "missions", and the SF guys tried to disarm him, his response should be:

A) Play along, if they disarm him the are most likely not really gonna kill him, because the are probably SF guys, no one else would try to disarm a cop.

B) React to defend himself.



Well that is what I'm saying, the SF guys were doing what they were trained to do, the Deputy did what he was supposed to do. Unfortunately each of their perceptions of the incident assumed certain things.

I think someone in charge of notifying civilians of military activity in off base areas dropped the ball, big time, now 2 SF guys and the Deputy paid for it.

I just find it amazing, our fore fathers had resevations about a standing army. Some of us question the army running around among the population on their "special" training and we are somehow branded as anti military, bullshit.

I did my time with Uncle Sams Misguided Children, as a grunt, and I am very proud to have served, and Im proud of the fine lads that serve this country now. But this arrogants of hey its SF, we need this trainging, it can only be accomplished this way, is bullshit IMHO.

I respect you SF`ers out there, but you know what? Yeah you guys are still just grunts. You may be high speed low drag, bit just a grunt. This "oh you guys cant comprehend how the SF works" is a bit far fetched. Im sure its very complicated, thats why everyone in the SF is at least a SFC, I wonder who cleans the shitter for the SF? A lowly Staff Sergeant?
Oh well, I really did not mean to rant on you guys. But something need to change. But hey what do I know? I was only a grunt.

Two things. I'm both a police officer and reservist, (12 years active, earned my tab in 1984) and have been on both sides of these type of scenarios. A couple of facts that everybody seems to be missing;  This incident took place 30 MILES from base! That's like having troops from Ft Hood creeping through my backyard. The idea that the deputy should be cognizant of their status immediately upon his approach is absurd. I cannot believe the trainees actually thought they were in a controlled scenario. (BTW:  they're not kids.  One is an officer, the other an E-6.  That puts them both into their mid to late 20's with at least 5-6 years military service)  Next, I'm pretty sure that the operational area specified for this training does not cover half the state. Could they have been lost? How well did that civilian know his role? Lastly, it comes as no great surprise to me that troops get a little carried away with the role playing.  We've put OPFOR troops in the hospital before, killed one in 1988.  This is not exactly kiddies on the playground. I place the responsibility for this on the chain of command. They put two soldiers into an uncontrolled situation involving live weapons and unknowing participants. You can bash the deputy and the soldiers all you want, it just proves you know nothing about either job. Three fine people just had their lives destroyed, to say nothing about the families. That said, this training serves a very important purpose. I took part in very similar training scenarios starting in 1980 that still have value for me today. To deny this training to the troops just because some of you are not quite wrapped correctly is completely unjustifiable.  

It also requires a knowledge of the law. In my state, we have what is called, "The reasonable Person Rule", basically this means, would a reasonable person, in the same circumstances, conclude that this was a "life threatining", or "serious bodily injury" situation. Given our "scenerio", it doesn't take either "responsibility", or rocket science to reach the same conclusion I do. Garand, while you are thinking about being responsible, someone may just cap you. I know you've heard the saying, "better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6". In closing, I don't know your backround, but if you've "been there", you know that it's all instinct, and training when the balloon goes up. Thinking gets you a funeral.....

Protect me from what, exactly?

My condolences to the injured men and their families. Seems like the deputy should have been more aware of his neighborhood and known about the exersize. Too bad he thought it was real and the army men thought it was an excercize. I can't believe that they would have tried to disarm the deputy had they known that he wasn't "playing".

I didn't realize that as civilians we have no business in defending our country, helping to stop crimes in progress, or saving the lives of LEOs or fellow citizens. Why do you even own guns if you have no business using them?

So we can all gther that if faced with a similar scenario you would either:

(A) Continue driving past said deputy and skinheads fighting on roadside, assuming they were merely playing a game

(B) Walk up, gently tap one of them on the shoulder and ask if they are role playing.

Some of you guys defending the Army's screw up are simply unbelievable.

I hope the tapes from the deputy's patrol car are are released. That should clear this up right away. Well, at least to those of us who are objective and don't maintain that the military can do no wrong.

If the founding fathers could have foreseen this sort military activity, one has to wonder if the Third Amendment might have been written a bit differently.

[b]Garand[/b], there was a link earlier to the news story at the TV site. If you follow it, click on the "news" page. It will take you to the front page. There you will find a link that will play the radio conversation of the cop from the time of contact, till the call for an ambulance. It is somewhat garbled, but you may benefit from giving it a listen.....

If it were me, as a regular civilian, and I were approached and then attacked in some manner by a group of men who decided I was part of their training exercise, I'd probably shoot too.

Sorry, but the military is just as susceptible to this "American Ninja" BS as everyone else.  If they want to do training in an urban or suburban environment, then they need to set up training facilities and hire "extras" to serve as population.  It's an accident waiting to happen... an accident that has happened.

Regardless of the motives behind their training, this was an act of stupidity on the part of the officers who dreamed up this little exercise, and they should be repremanded.

I live 20 miles from where this happened. Lived here for three years. Moved here directly from Marine base on the coast. Never heard of Robin Sage. Two scenarios of why this is bad.

1. Hunter (there are many in that area) sees cop and two individuals in a firefight He doesn't know they are just blanks. Bye Bye SF Trainies.

2. I hold an NC CHP. If I come upon a scene (I travel thru that area on a semi regular basis) and see a Uniformed Police Officer taking fire and returning it I will stop. I will also start shooting not because I am trigger happy but because if I see a Uniformed Police Officer taking fire and returning it there is no need to asses the situation to determine if deadly force is authorized the Cop shooting confirms that there is.

I am glad to hear that the Soldier will recover.

If to SF trainees about to graduate can be taken down by a Deputy Sheriff their training isn't adequite and take downs can be practiced on base.

Why not build a town out west and have permanant OpFor? They do this for Pilots? The town wouldn't have to change that much since they have been using the same one for 40 yrs. Could be used for all sorts of training not just SF. It would be pricey say the price of one B-2 bomber? The houses and buildings don't have to be finished or even have electrical or water just a shell with interior walls. There is too much danger to the trainees and especially the population to do this training in civilian areas.

BTW I still have and wear my combat boots and my tee's with my name stenciled on them to the range once in a while, not because I am a military wanna be but its free and comfortable. why mess up clothes I pay for at the range when I still have my issue stuff that serves no other purpose. Just because you have combat boots and brown tee doesn't mean sh*t in this neck of the woods.

In defense of the Army, this is a training exercise that has been performed for 40 years in, up until now, what appears to have been a relatively safe manner (although we don't have the benefit of knowing how many similar instances or other close calls may have been averted in the past).

I do agree that it was just an accident waiting to happen, however. Hopefully the Army will rethink the appropriateness of conducting such aggressive training in an uncontrolled civilian environment. If these training exercises are allowed to continue, you can be assured that it WILL only be a matter of time before Murphy again enforces his law.

You know, The more I think about this deal, The more I wonder, if one of the glaring Training errors, was that Special Forces, practices for the likely event that they might have to take out, a member of Law Enforcement or some sort of roving patrol in a foriegn country, But that the special forces trainees, Had not been thru a Law Enforcement type OC and Pepper Spray class.

OC is used world wide nowdays by the Law Enforcement and Patrol elements that Special Forces are training to Evade and if need be kill.

Now I will Admit, That in many parts of the world, OC or Mace is more likely to be used as an interogation tool, than a defensive tool in a car stop, or road block, But I belive, that If the Lt. who was killed had been thru a Law Enforcement type OC course, such as state troopers go thue in my state, Where you recieve a full face blast of OC and then have to hold you dominant eye open with two fingers, while engaging multiple targets with your side arm. That the Special forces trainee might have been more able to think clearly after being sprayed.

As it was, after being sprayed the Lt., lost it, and issued a nonsense order that got his partner shot.

Frankly, I believe that if Special Forces wants to learn how police officers operate, and by that knowledge, how to kill them, if the miltary need comes up in foriegn lands. Then they should extend their training time and have these potential operators attend one week at the State Police Academy.

No one understands how to kill cops better than the instuctors of a Police Academy.

This would be a far better idea, than trying to teach your troops this arcane skill out in the middle of the public.

Who knows the Police Academy, might even teach you guys a thing or two about how to conduct safe training with fire arms.

The SF guys did not do what they were told.  I am not an expert, but somebody, at some point, must have told them "don't get shot"!  They were also told to blend in and not be discovered.

If this was just a training excercise and the Deputy was an actor with a dummy gun full of blanks, they still got discovered.  Once pulled over, they did not play it cool and talk their way out of it.  (part of their training?)

Their training is supposed to be the best in the world and 2 of them could not take out 1 cop.  If it was just acting, the SF guys would not have had holes in them, but would still have failed the exercize.  I am sorry for them and their families and the officer as well.  I am not blaming the individuals, but those in charge needed to do better job all around.

Note to self:  Do not rely on Mace/pepper spray for your life.

Exactly.

Anyone else notice the clever dodge in answering the question?

So the SF learns how to successfully execute clandestine operations amongst a country and population where they are indiginous. Exactly how does honing their skills at blending into Hometown, USA (an ability most of us are BORN with) better their ability to do so in foreign countries where virtually every aspect is different?

So they can (usually) go undetected in North Carolina.

Who does that protect me from again?

North Carolinans?

Is the SF practicing to fight the next US Civil War?

>So the SF learns how to successfully execute >clandestine operations amongst a country and >population where they are indiginous.

Ever hear the phrase "You aint from arround here Boy"  I see all kinds of good training here, a guy from Puerto Rico, Slav from Minnisota, Surfer Dude from Cali, all trying to blend with the locals in Upcountry North Cakalacky.  Its the Crawl, Walk, Run way of training.  The Q course gives you just the right ammount of training to be able to function on a team.  After Robin Sage comes Language School, then years on a team with numerous deployments ect.  Then if you are real good and go back to school for things like ASOT, SFARTEC, SOTIC you get on a team that has this type of mission.  In wartime Robin Sage is even more important as you might not get all the years of training, you might get thrown into it a week after graduation, and at least you have seen something like this before.  Dont know who said it, But "RIP allows you to make it your first month in Battalion"  I think it can be modified to "Robin Sage allows you to make it your first year on a team"

Naw, they need the training if they are going to be doing shit like they're doing over in afganistan right now. That is about the closest thing to protecting me I can think of them doing, and it is more revenge than protection. We could do plenty enough protection from terrs by locking down the boarders and doing some heavy duty racial profiling and questioning in the non-citizen population in this country to weed out the bastards. The ones that managed to become citizens would be a little harder to weed out, but it could be done with out special forces troops.

 

Article from the WSJ today.  

Still no info published on the shooting other than the SO's version, but this may give you an idea of what the Robin Sage exercise is all about, warts and all.  Please read thoroughly before attacking.

Like anything else, some people like it, and some don't.  Had several people come up to me the last few days while I was in uniform and say thanks, or "we hope the kid recovers and you guys keep on training here."  Nobody spit on me or shot at me yet.

I suspect that more of the story will eventually emerge.  SO's story already evolving.  Stay tuned.  Sorry for the length!

Wall Street Journal
February 26, 2002
Pg. 1
A Mistaken Shooting During Exercise Puts A New Spotlight On War Games
By Chip Cummins, Staff Reporter of The Wall Street Journal
FRANKLINVILLE, N.C. -- For more than 40 years, people around here have had
an unusual hobby: posing as resistance fighters and enemy soldiers.
Townspeople and farmers ferry soldiers around in their trucks and turn their
homes and backyards into safe houses and guerrilla bases. Local police set
up roadblocks along country lanes. The town librarian in neighboring Ramseur
has played the role of a partisan fighter, smuggling coded messages in Dr.
Seuss books.
It's all part of the elaborate war games that the Special Forces troops at
nearby Fort Bragg stage, enlisting local civilians to volunteer to help them
train to fight behind enemy lines. Over the decades, "Robin Sage," as the
two-week, four-times-a-year exercise is called, has become a family
tradition, going back three generations. "A lot of people like ball games,"
said Michael Grigg, who has taken his six-year-old granddaughter, Taylor,
with him some weekends when he is hauling troops in his Ford pickup. "I like
doing this."
On Saturday, the tradition turned into tragedy. A Moore County sheriff's
deputy stopped two soldiers and a local man driving on a quiet country lane
near the town of Robbins. Dressed in civilian clothes, the threesome were
taking part in the Special Forces exercise and believed the deputy was part
of a training scenario.
They resisted arrest, and the deputy, apparently not realizing the others
were part of the exercise, shot the two soldiers, who were riding in the
local's pickup truck and carrying a disassembled M-4 rifle. One soldier,
First Lieutenant Tallas Tomeny, died from his wounds. The other was
seriously wounded, and a community with long, close ties to the military has
been shaken.
The accident is especially poignant because it occurred in a community where
residents take great pride in having helped prepare Special Forces troops in
the sort of tactics that helped topple the Taliban regime in Afghanistan.
The weekend's fatal mishap casts a spotlight on the unconventional training
and methods of these troops, who have played a leading role in the
post-Sept. 11 war on terrorism. For decades, every Green Beret -- a nickname
that refers to the distinctive Special Forces head gear -- has had to
qualify here in central North Carolina before being sent overseas.

The Moore County Sheriff's office and the North Carolina State Bureau of
Investigation are conducting separate investigations of the weekend
shooting. The prosecutor's office for Moore and two other counties said
Monday that based on initial findings in those investigations, the sheriff's
deputy, Randall Butler, acted appropriately, as did the two soldiers
involved. Criminal charges aren't expected, the prosecutor's office said.
The Army has said the shooting resulted from an "unfortunate case of
mistaken identity and a breakdown in communications between the individuals
involved." An Army spokeswoman said exercise planners are going back to all
local law-enforcement agencies to ensure close coordination. The exercises
are continuing this week, the Army said.
The shooting took place in a 4,500-square-mile swath of North Carolina
forest and farmland that Army war-game designers have reimagined as the
nation of "Pineland." During the current 14-day exercise, which began Feb.
16, some 200 aspiring Green Berets were inserted behind "enemy lines" by
parachute, helicopter or plane. Then, they were supposed to make their way
to "guerrilla bases" outside small towns like Franklinville, population
1,258. Their mission: to help topple Pineland's fictional puppet government.
A visit to the area before last weekend's accidental shooting revealed high
enthusiasm among locals for the exercise. As part of the training, soldiers
are supposed to try to win the confidence of guerrilla chiefs, played by
civilians or retired Green Berets. The trainees then accompany the
guerrillas on missions, including ambushes of enemy militia and raids to
free hostages. The Army asks land owners for permission to use their
property. Live ammunition isn't employed in the role-playing that involves
local residents, who cheerfully refer to themselves as "Pinelanders."
Residents said Monday they were saddened by the accident but that it hasn't
dented their support for the military exercises. Cheryl Lamonds of nearby
Troy has volunteered since the 1980s for Robin Sage. (Green Beret lore has
it that the name refers to the daughter of a former commander.) Last week,
Ms. Lamonds donned a camouflage uniform to play a senior guerrilla chief. A
group of soldiers came to her home to meet and negotiate with her. Another
such gathering is scheduled for tonight.
"It's really a shock," Ms. Lamonds, 48 years old, said of the accident.
"There has to have been a whole lot of misunderstanding. Someone, somewhere
dropped the ball. It will make people more cautious."
Still, she doesn't expect it to decrease local eagerness to help the
military. "These people are attached to this training, to the instructors
and to Fort Bragg. I don't want to say the word 'mystique,' but it's a
family," she explained. "It has gone on for so long without incident. This
is really an anomaly."

A week before the accident, Mr. Grigg, a 58-year-old maintenance man for the
local power company who spent six years in the Army, stood in the dark next
to his sister's dump truck as a stranger emerged from the woods behind Mount
Lebanon Church, near Franklinville. "Does the preacher allow praying in the
cemetery?" the man called out.
Mr. Grigg recognized the code. "This truck is dirty as a dog," he barked
back. He opened up the truck's tailgate, and 12 camouflaged soldiers with
heavy packs and rifles ran from the woods and piled in. "We're in Pineland,"
said one of the soldiers, smiling through streaks of black-and-olive face
paint as he clambered aboard.
Helping the soldiers train, said Mr. Grigg. "makes me feel like I've done
something." His two-story clapboard house often serves as a place where
local militia keep captured Army soldiers. He has scrawled additional
numbers on the dial of his bathroom wall clock so that it displays 24-hour
military time.
Most residents typically don't see much of the exercises, except for a few
Army trucks and the occasional helicopter at night. In years past, more
locals have volunteered than the Army can accommodate.
In the past, there have been instances of residents unaware of an exercise
calling 911 after seeing armed soldiers prowling the woods. But until now,
no one has been hurt as a result of interaction between soldiers and locals,
according to Army officials
There have been occasional complaints from people who say they didn't know
about the mock troop movements in advance or are angry about soldiers
trampling on private property. Sgt. First Class Wade Bramble, who devises
scenarios around Franklinville, said before the weekend accident that he
warns local law enforcement and 911 dispatchers when part of an exercise
might involve fake gunfire or explosives. But he said he still worries about
the well-intentioned resident who could stumble onto a staged raid.
"It's the good citizens who might come out with their own guns," he said.
With the exercises spread out over nine counties and dozens of small towns,
he conceded, he "can't physically talk to everyone."
Last October, Jessica Keeling, 18 years old, heard a spray of mock
machine-gun fire behind the Citgo filling station where she used to work.
She quickly locked the doors, herded customers playing video poker into the
store's walk-in refrigerator and dialed 911. The dispatcher told her it was
just the Army staging a hostage rescue at the body shop next door.
"Nobody told me there was going to be shooting," she recalled before the
weekend accident. She smiled when telling her story but recalled that "some
customers were saying, 'I'm never coming back here again.' Kids were
crying."
Sgt. Bramble set up that mock gun battle. As he pulled into another Citgo
station down the road, where Ms. Keeling now works, she shook her head,
saying, "Every time I see that one, I say, 'You going to be shooting today?'

"Most people "understand what's going on" and endorse the exercises, even after the accident, said Lt. Jerry Brower, deputy sheriff in Randolph County, which abuts Moore County, where the accidental shooting took place.
Once civilians realize a gun battle or a roadblock is actually role playing, "they only wish they had been closer," he said.
In the wake of the accident, the lieutenant said his office is re-evaluating its safety and communications procedures and expects the military to rethink its procedures, too. But he added that "in everything, there's a risk. A
soldier could have fallen in a rappelling accident." The shooting of the two soldiers "was a tragedy, but should [the Army] stop because it's a danger? No."
David Griffin, 36, started helping with the exercises as a teenager, although he didn't know what was going on at first. Playing one day on the outskirts of Troy, he met a team of soldiers who mistook him for a guerrilla
in the exercise. "They run me through a cornfield like you've never been run
before," he recalled, with relish. "They never did catch me."
He had so much fun, the next time he volunteered to help the Army. His
17-year-old son, James, used to come along on mock missions until he joined the real Army last summer.
Mr. Griffin said Monday that spirits among some Army instructors and locals have flagged because of the accident, but he plans to continue to help. "You stay together and work it out," he said.
Mr. Griffin recalled meeting his friend Chad Nichols, a 30-year-old power-line inspector, during a Robin Sage exercise in the mid-1980s. Posing as local guides last week, the two drove a group of soldiers in Mr. Nichols's battered truck to a "guerrilla base" in the woods just outside of Franklinville. The two friends have played resistance fighters, enemy soldiers and injured pilots. They have also bought their own semiautomatic rifles for use in the exercises. Those weapons are loaded with blanks, too.
Mr. Griffin, who drives a truck for a local gas company during the week, said he doesn't mind spending late nights and weekends in the woods with the troops. He recalled the time the Army sent Mr. Nichols and him up in a surveillance plane to take aerial photos of a mock prisoner-of-war camp built by the Army for the exercise. After getting the pictures developed at
a Wal-Mart, the two civilians attended an Army briefing where the photos were used to plan an assault, Mr. Griffin said. "It's not only an honor, it's a thrill," he said.
His friend, Mr. Nichols, enlisted in the Army as a high-school senior but had to drop out after crushing his leg in a car accident. Participating in Robin Sage takes away some of the lingering disappointment, he explained.
Mr. Nichols said the Army's recent success in Afghanistan has made the exercise even more important to him. There, teams of Green Berets linked up with guerrilla fighters to help oust the Taliban regime. Mr. Nichols said he has heard that soldiers returning from Afghanistan have said their real-life missions were similar to those they went through years ago in the North Carolina woods. "That makes me proud as heck," he said.

After each exercise, soldiers spend a day painting barns, clearing fields or fixing fences as a way of saying thanks. Maj. Patrick Marques, an exercise organizer, said before the accident that the realism the locals provide is crucial. The major said he can make do with too few Army trucks or helicopters, "but if we don't have the people, we can't do this."

END

Thanks.  SF out.

Not at all. Perhaps he did not come from a military background and has no interest in military affairs?

I'm sure you are not aware of every aspect of life in NY, because some aspects dont appeal to you or interact at all with your day to day life.

I’ve been kind of grounded the last few days, since a weather front took out a few trees and my utility services Sat night -

I’ve read all six pages of comments, and read the WSJ article delivered to my door.

Thank you SF for serving.

Thanks to the braver than me soldiers who train for the “Green Hats”.

I grieve for all involved, the Deputy, the Soldiers, their families, and for all who serve.

It is a real tragedy when good men die.

Mike

Dammit people, think for a change.  Several of you have said similar things to "SF training must suck since one cop took on two SF."  Give me a ****ing break.  If, in a real situation, two SF can't take out one cop then why didn't we send our beloved barnies to afghanistan?  Doing the math and following your "logic" we could have sent half as many and gotten results at least as good as we did.  It sure is amazing that cops, who get trained for a few months, are so vastly superior to SF soldiers who have trained for years.  Someone ought to call up the army and clue them in.  Maybe they can just send SF trainees to police academy and save some effort.

Yes, the similarities between North Carolina and Afghanistan are readily apparent, aren't they?