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Posted: 7/29/2015 6:51:20 AM EDT
[#1]
Also, the reason anyone is even considering this possible, even though it violates a law of physics, is because laws are nothing more than observations that we've never seen broken. It doesn't mean we know for absolute certainty that it cannot be broken.
That said, even if this thing actually does work (which, I'd love it to, but I'm still skeptical), i suspect they'll probably just have to re-define momentum to include virtual particles or whatever "whiz bang" mechanism they think it works on, rather then just throwing out the law all together. |
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Posted: 7/29/2015 6:57:51 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Also, the reason anyone is even considering this possible, even though it violates a law of physics, is because laws are nothing more than observations that we've never seen broken. It doesn't mean we know for absolute certainty that it cannot be broken. That said, even if this thing actually does work (which, I'd love it to, but I'm still skeptical), i suspect they'll probably just have to re-define momentum to include virtual particles or whatever "whiz bang" mechanism they think it works on, rather then just throwing out law all together. It just might be an open system somehow and we don't have near enough info in the article to see one way or the other. |
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Posted: 7/29/2015 7:03:00 AM EDT
[#3]
The Chinese will use it first,
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Posted: 7/29/2015 7:03:25 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It just might be an open system somehow and we don't have near enough info in the article to see one way or the other. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Also, the reason anyone is even considering this possible, even though it violates a law of physics, is because laws are nothing more than observations that we've never seen broken. It doesn't mean we know for absolute certainty that it cannot be broken. That said, even if this thing actually does work (which, I'd love it to, but I'm still skeptical), i suspect they'll probably just have to re-define momentum to include virtual particles or whatever "whiz bang" mechanism they think it works on, rather then just throwing out law all together. It just might be an open system somehow and we don't have near enough info in the article to see one way or the other. We've been down this road many times with many topics, and always in the end it is some conventionally explainable factor that wasn't considered providing the appearance of a physics law violating occurrence, without actually violating them. That's where my money is in this case, but I'd really, really, really, really love to be wrong. I want cheap space travel damn it.  |
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Posted: 7/29/2015 7:05:11 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Also, the reason anyone is even considering this possible, even though it violates a law of physics, is because laws are nothing more than observations that we've never seen broken. It doesn't mean we know for absolute certainty that it cannot be broken. That said, even if this thing actually does work (which, I'd love it to, but I'm still skeptical), i suspect they'll probably just have to re-define momentum to include virtual particles or whatever "whiz bang" mechanism they think it works on, rather then just throwing out the law all together. I've tried pointing this out many times. What we consider to be to the unbreakable laws of Physics are really, in the end, just observations and theories... and they only hold up until something new happens. Throughout most of history, scientists thought their knowledge was the end all be all all. Even Einstein could have had things he overlooked, or just...never experienced or thought existed. |
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Posted: 7/29/2015 7:13:16 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've tried pointing this out many times. What we consider to be to the unbreakable laws of Physics are really, in the end, just observations and theories... and they only hold up until something new happens. Throughout most of history, scientists thought their knowledge was the end all be all all. Even Einstein could have had things he overlooked, or just...never experienced or thought existed. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Also, the reason anyone is even considering this possible, even though it violates a law of physics, is because laws are nothing more than observations that we've never seen broken. It doesn't mean we know for absolute certainty that it cannot be broken. That said, even if this thing actually does work (which, I'd love it to, but I'm still skeptical), i suspect they'll probably just have to re-define momentum to include virtual particles or whatever "whiz bang" mechanism they think it works on, rather then just throwing out the law all together. I've tried pointing this out many times. What we consider to be to the unbreakable laws of Physics are really, in the end, just observations and theories... and they only hold up until something new happens. Throughout most of history, scientists thought their knowledge was the end all be all all. Even Einstein could have had things he overlooked, or just...never experienced or thought existed. I'll bet that this drive turns out to be one of those cases. Yes, its technically possible to be on the cusp of some discovery that will change the way we think about physics, but I'm not holding my breath, as historically, more often than not, these wonder devices turn out to be bunk. |
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Posted: 7/29/2015 7:13:50 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Chinese will use it first, As I understand the Chinese have a HUGE interest in this technology as well. I would reasonably expect them to make progress in this in the near future that rivals ours |
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Posted: 7/29/2015 7:15:17 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
............... Which is why I remain skeptical. We've been down this road many times with many topics, and always in the end it is some conventionally explainable factor that wasn't considered providing the appearance of a physics law violating occurrence, without actually violating them. That's where my money is in this case, but I'd really, really, really, really love to be wrong. I want cheap space travel damn it.
Yes.......time will tell. |
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Posted: 7/29/2015 7:22:38 AM EDT
[#9]
However scientists still have no idea how it actually works. Nasa suggested that it could have something to do with the technology manipulating subatomic particles which constantly pop in and out of existence in empty space.
Um - 
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Posted: 7/29/2015 7:25:43 AM EDT
[#10]
Look, just get this shit going so I can have my Space RV!
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Posted: 7/29/2015 7:27:01 AM EDT
[#11]
Finallllly, a way to get the fuck off of this planet, and away from all of the assholes on it. I have often said that just like the pilgrims came to a new world to get the fuck away from the jerk offs, we need to do the same. There are no continents left here, so a new planet is the only solution.
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Posted: 7/29/2015 7:29:19 AM EDT
[#12]
Oh, and the £87,000 trip to space; a link from from the same same article.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/luxury/travel/44283/travel-to-space-by-bloon.html |
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Posted: 7/29/2015 7:34:54 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Acknowledging that I'm an idiot regarding these types of things, I would think it would take more than cutting the power to stop when you're going "4-hours-to-the-moon" speed in space. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: snip Yeah, you need that 'explain it' stuff so you can do mundane things like 'make it stop.' I think cutting the power off does that. We seem to have that technique down pat since before Edison. Acknowledging that I'm an idiot regarding these types of things, I would think it would take more than cutting the power to stop when you're going "4-hours-to-the-moon" speed in space. |
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Posted: 7/29/2015 7:36:55 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They better be able to explain it. And I'm sure they will eventually. Getting on a ship that runs on "magic" would give me the creeps.. lol Shiiiiit.....Women do it every day when they get in their cars to go to work
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Posted: 7/29/2015 8:39:38 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Finallllly, a way to get the fuck off of this planet, and away from all of the assholes on it. I have often said that just like the pilgrims came to a new world to get the fuck away from the jerk offs, we need to do the same. There are no continents left here, so a new planet is the only solution. |
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Posted: 7/29/2015 8:59:50 AM EDT
[#16]
So if it can make it to the moon in 4 hours, how long would it take to go 1400 light years to earth 2?
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Posted: 7/29/2015 9:17:03 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeh, and theoretically, if nothing fails or wears down, this engine could also keep running forever...
http://www.skibane.com/Flathead_Ford_v8.jpg We have photon rockets? And one of them is a "standard"? Quote HistoryQuoted:
It produces thrust by using solar power to generate multiple microwaves that move back and forth in an enclosed chamber. This means that until something fails or wears down, theoretically the engine could keep running forever Yeh, and theoretically, if nothing fails or wears down, this engine could also keep running forever...
http://www.skibane.com/Flathead_Ford_v8.jpg The drive is capable of producing thrust several thousand times greater than a standard photon rocket We have photon rockets? And one of them is a "standard"? Photon rockets have been around since the 70s. The Russians developed them and were so advanced we thought the Ruskies made the shit up. Now they're used on every satellite and space station to correct their orbits. I was thinking ion thrusters. Nevermind. |
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Posted: 7/29/2015 10:01:01 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So if it can make it to the moon in 4 hours, how long would it take to go 1400 light years to earth 2? |
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Posted: 7/29/2015 10:05:00 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
One of the Articles said that Pluto is 18 months and maybe Alpha Centari is a 100 years. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
So if it can make it to the moon in 4 hours, how long would it take to go 1400 light years to earth 2? The next few challenges would be dealing with the interstellar radiation, muscle loss, and decline in bone density. |
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Posted: 7/29/2015 10:19:56 AM EDT
[#20]
Will it fit in standard 30rd mags or will they need to have EMD mags?
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Posted: 7/29/2015 10:36:42 AM EDT
[#21]
Obviously a healthy skepticism is necessary. They get this thing running on a treadmill then I'll be convinced.
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Posted: 7/29/2015 10:40:33 AM EDT
[#22]
too little, too late
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Posted: 7/29/2015 12:04:21 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Step back and take a little wider view. We've come an awful long way in the last 200 years... hell, we went from horse and buggies to landing a man on the moon in basically a single lifetime. Unfortunately, while innovation is still there, it certainly doesn't take center stage like it once did. People seem to be losing the urge to know things just for the sake of knowing them, which is really the driver of innovation and discovery. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I hear of all this wondrous shit but it never seems to come to fruition. Also I've noticed that nothing good happens any more. Step back and take a little wider view. We've come an awful long way in the last 200 years... hell, we went from horse and buggies to landing a man on the moon in basically a single lifetime. Unfortunately, while innovation is still there, it certainly doesn't take center stage like it once did. People seem to be losing the urge to know things just for the sake of knowing them, which is really the driver of innovation and discovery. It is a little more complicated than that. I understand what Junkhunter is saying. We went to the Moon. We went back, and took our clubs. Still not enough, we went back with a dune buggy... I worked for Ben Rich in the 1979-85 years. Sure security was tight, but we had "leaks". We were fighting the cold war. People knew that something was going on at Groom Lake. The Skunk Works was in the middle of Burbank. Projects were not discussed with family, but they knew we were working on cool stuff. Imagine the backyard BBQ with a guy that was working on the Flying Crowbar. "Yeah Herb, can't tell ya what it is, but we are building an asskicker! Blow old Ivan's balls right off!. The sonovabitch will never hear it coming" It gave people something - without risking the project. Times have changed, People are overloaded with (largely meaningless) information. |
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Posted: 7/29/2015 12:12:30 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We can't explain gravity but we can sufficiently measure and predict it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm fascinated by the experimental results. I really do want to see an explanation of how this works in defiance of the conservation of momentum. And will it work scaled up to a usable drive? Nevertheless.. http://i.imgur.com/jsXkNLP.gif I don't care if they can explain it as long as it works. They better be able to explain it. And I'm sure they will eventually. Getting on a ship that runs on "magic" would give me the creeps.. lol We can't explain gravity but we can sufficiently measure and predict it. I think thers an explanation to how gravity works and why its present , im no scientist but im sure we can explain it through rotation of the planet. |
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Posted: 7/29/2015 12:14:19 PM EDT
[#25]
I'll just quote from a smart dude I know, who I believe works on such things for a living.
http://www.armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=49075.msg999681#msg999681 4 hours to the moon is ~1g THE WHOLE WAY (accelerate and decelerate), or a delta-V of nearly 60km/s. So not only are they saying this "impossible" (the only truthful thing about its description) drive "works" but somehow is capable of a BILLION TIMES more thust to weight than it's already "demonstrated" at power/unit thrust levels A TRILLION TIMES better.
Yeah, because taking something that isn't proven, and making claims that require effectively a 21 order of magnitude improvement are TOTALLY a legit. No, it's not producing thrust. The experiment is showing a "near the error bounds" result, that doesn't have a valid null hypothesis test, and doesn't scale. That isn't producing thrust, that is A NULL RESULT |
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Posted: 7/29/2015 12:22:50 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The technology is so simple that this could have been discovered 60 years ago back when they really first started experimenting with radar. Would explain all the ufo sightings since the 50s... Flying saucers (resonating chambers)  |
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Posted: 7/29/2015 12:23:40 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryIf we can get this to work, the moons of Jupiter and Saturn, at the very least, become easily reached by man. All these worlds are yours, except Europa. Attempt no landing there. |
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Posted: 7/29/2015 12:28:37 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
However scientists still have no idea how it actually works. Nasa suggested that it could have something to do with the technology manipulating subatomic particles which constantly pop in and out of existence in empty space. Um -
Don't understand the significance of your emoticons. |
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Posted: 7/29/2015 12:47:46 PM EDT
[#29]
Some of these replies sound like electricity skeptics from 150 years ago. LOL
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Posted: 7/29/2015 12:53:29 PM EDT
[#30]
What effect will this have on oil and gas use
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Posted: 7/29/2015 12:56:49 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So, not another test, rather they checked the math and the way NASA set up their experiment for possible interfering forces and agree with NASA's result. Oops, misread that, the Germans did build their own device and observed the same thrust as NASA. Good, but the observed thrust was barely beyond the margin of error of the measuring devices, I am still a bit cautious about rushing out and putting down a deposit on a starship, still seems possible that there is an unrecognized variable. And it's awful early to deem practical a future version 1,000 times more powerful than the lab prototype. I seriously hope it pans out though, and that goes times ten for the "huh, we may have generated a warp bubble" announcement they made awhile back. It is a constant force, which means it increase exponentially as it is used. It can get you going, really, really, fast in a short time. No gravity is assumed in these situations. |
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Posted: 7/29/2015 1:00:12 PM EDT
[#32]
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Posted: 7/29/2015 1:12:34 PM EDT
[#33]
I really want this to work and be scalable, but I remember cold fusion, and, thus, I remain unexcited.
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Posted: 7/29/2015 1:13:02 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote History"Davis noticed some problems in the experiment as well. “I noted in [the study’s] conclusion paragraphs that [Tajmar’s] apparatus was producing hundreds of micro-Newtons of thrust when it got very hot and that his measuring instrumentation is not very accurate when the apparatus becomes hot,” Davis told io9. “He also stated that he was still recording thrust signals even after the electrical power was turned off which is a huge key clue that his thrust measurements are all systematic artifact false positive thrust signals.”" |
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Posted: 7/29/2015 1:28:36 PM EDT
[#35]
Unless this gets me some SCVs to mine minerals and vespene gas, I'm out.
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Posted: 7/29/2015 1:31:31 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
"Davis noticed some problems in the experiment as well. “I noted in [the study’s] conclusion paragraphs that [Tajmar’s] apparatus was producing hundreds of micro-Newtons of thrust when it got very hot and that his measuring instrumentation is not very accurate when the apparatus becomes hot,” Davis told io9. “He also stated that he was still recording thrust signals even after the electrical power was turned off which is a huge key clue that his thrust measurements are all systematic artifact false positive thrust signals.”" Quote HistoryQuoted:
"Davis noticed some problems in the experiment as well. “I noted in [the study’s] conclusion paragraphs that [Tajmar’s] apparatus was producing hundreds of micro-Newtons of thrust when it got very hot and that his measuring instrumentation is not very accurate when the apparatus becomes hot,” Davis told io9. “He also stated that he was still recording thrust signals even after the electrical power was turned off which is a huge key clue that his thrust measurements are all systematic artifact false positive thrust signals.”" 1: Lagging and lingering thrust is hardly proof the device does not function. Go turn a nuclear reactor off and observe the result. 2: There's an easy solution to the "it's just thermally induced magic thrust!" claim of the critics. Repeat the experiment with the device unpowered, then heat the device using a laser to the same operating temperature. Then turn the laser off and observe for thrust. No thrust = not thermal. Thrust = thermal. |
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Posted: 7/29/2015 1:40:32 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In a space craft there is nothing to make you stop or slow down. A space craft behaves quite differently to e.g. an automobile. If you consider a vehicle that can do 0-60 in 4 seconds, that's acceleration of +15 MPH every second. But you can't just keep accelerating - friction with the road, the air, the bearings, etc. all conspire to make going faster harder. That's why your 60-120 time isn't the same as your 0-60 time. This is not the case with a spacecraft. If it kept on accelerating at that rate in two hours it'd be doing 108,000 MPH. The downside to that is that there's nothing to help a spacecraft slow down except that same motor so slowing down takes the exact same time as speeding up. At the moment we coast most of the way. Our spacecraft just can't carry enough fuel to boost for a long time. More fuel means more weight which means you need more fuel, etc. When we get close we turn around and do a reverse thrust to fall into orbit. Yes. Exactly right! Once we get a spaceship drive that lets us boost continuously (essential for big speeds) then that's exactly what you would have to do on every trip and it's way faster than coasting most of the way. Think of it as being like doing a quarter mile where you have to stop right on the finish line. At the moment we goose the throttle to get started, put it neutral and coast most of the way and then dab the brakes to stop. What we'd prefer to do is be on the throttle till we're half way there and then stand on the brakes. Much faster. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Acknowledging that I'm an idiot regarding these types of things, I would think it would take more than cutting the power to stop when you're going "4-hours-to-the-moon" speed in space. In a space craft there is nothing to make you stop or slow down. A space craft behaves quite differently to e.g. an automobile. If you consider a vehicle that can do 0-60 in 4 seconds, that's acceleration of +15 MPH every second. But you can't just keep accelerating - friction with the road, the air, the bearings, etc. all conspire to make going faster harder. That's why your 60-120 time isn't the same as your 0-60 time. This is not the case with a spacecraft. If it kept on accelerating at that rate in two hours it'd be doing 108,000 MPH. The downside to that is that there's nothing to help a spacecraft slow down except that same motor so slowing down takes the exact same time as speeding up. At the moment we coast most of the way. Our spacecraft just can't carry enough fuel to boost for a long time. More fuel means more weight which means you need more fuel, etc. When we get close we turn around and do a reverse thrust to fall into orbit. Quoted:
If that's the case, then you'd have to spend the first half of every trip accelerating, and the second half decelerating. Yes. Exactly right! Once we get a spaceship drive that lets us boost continuously (essential for big speeds) then that's exactly what you would have to do on every trip and it's way faster than coasting most of the way. Think of it as being like doing a quarter mile where you have to stop right on the finish line. At the moment we goose the throttle to get started, put it neutral and coast most of the way and then dab the brakes to stop. What we'd prefer to do is be on the throttle till we're half way there and then stand on the brakes. Much faster. Plus simulated gravity on board due to constant accelleration. |
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Posted: 7/29/2015 1:43:40 PM EDT
[#38]
The German's built the earliest version of this in 45. They didn't understand microwaves well and cooked/killed shit around the experiments early on.
http://discaircraft.greyfalcon.us/DIE%20GLOCKE.htm |
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Posted: 7/29/2015 1:43:48 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The next few challenges would be dealing with the interstellar radiation, muscle loss, and decline in bone density. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
So if it can make it to the moon in 4 hours, how long would it take to go 1400 light years to earth 2? The next few challenges would be dealing with the interstellar radiation, muscle loss, and decline in bone density. If we're under accelleration the whole way the last two aren't an issue - provided the accelleration ias high enough. |
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Posted: 7/29/2015 1:47:55 PM EDT
[#40]
I tried reading that but then just settled on:
Fly me to the moon, let me play among the stars. Let me see what spring is like on, Jupiter and Mars... "Make rocket go now!" 
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Posted: 7/29/2015 1:55:01 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It just might be an open system somehow and we don't have near enough info in the article to see one way or the other. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Also, the reason anyone is even considering this possible, even though it violates a law of physics, is because laws are nothing more than observations that we've never seen broken. It doesn't mean we know for absolute certainty that it cannot be broken. That said, even if this thing actually does work (which, I'd love it to, but I'm still skeptical), i suspect they'll probably just have to re-define momentum to include virtual particles or whatever "whiz bang" mechanism they think it works on, rather then just throwing out law all together. It just might be an open system somehow and we don't have near enough info in the article to see one way or the other. I think we may not only be on track to building faster ships, but on the way to discovering something pretty amazing about reality itself. |
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Posted: 7/29/2015 1:58:34 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't care if they can explain it as long as it works. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'm fascinated by the experimental results. I really do want to see an explanation of how this works in defiance of the conservation of momentum. And will it work scaled up to a usable drive? Nevertheless.. http://i.imgur.com/jsXkNLP.gif I don't care if they can explain it as long as it works. touch screens on phones use a quantum tunneling effect they don't entirely understand, but we use it and make it work anyway.. the cool thing isn't that it works, its that we don't know why it works, those always lead to the biggest discoveries. |
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Posted: 7/29/2015 2:00:51 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The next few challenges would be dealing with the interstellar radiation, muscle loss, and decline in bone density. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted:
So if it can make it to the moon in 4 hours, how long would it take to go 1400 light years to earth 2? The next few challenges would be dealing with the interstellar radiation, muscle loss, and decline in bone density. There are some interesting ideas on these. For radiation, if the cost to ship weight to orbit goes down significantly, they plan to use the hull of the ship as a giant water tank negate a lot of that. Also, they are looking at gene therapy to conquer the muscle and bone issues. |
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Posted: 7/29/2015 2:05:49 PM EDT
[#44]
I get the significance of thrust generated without mass expulsion.
Isn't that only half the equation to a space flight? How man G's of acceleration and deceleration are necessary to go 384,000 kilometers in 4 hours? Can humans withstand them? |
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Posted: 7/29/2015 2:07:08 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think cutting the power off does that. We seem to have that technique down pat since before Edison. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'm fascinated by the experimental results. I really do want to see an explanation of how this works in defiance of the conservation of momentum. And will it work scaled up to a usable drive? Nevertheless.. http://i.imgur.com/jsXkNLP.gif I don't care if they can explain it as long as it works. They better be able to explain it. And I'm sure they will eventually. Getting on a ship that runs on "magic" would give me the creeps.. lol Yeah, you need that 'explain it' stuff so you can do mundane things like 'make it stop.' I think cutting the power off does that. We seem to have that technique down pat since before Edison. Yes it will stop but it would be a long duration to come to a complete stop traveling at thousands of miles an hour otherwise the crew would not survive the stop. Once they get up to the speeds it would take to reach those distant places in such a short amount of time how would they stop safely if they needed to quickly? This may solve the problem on needing fuel to accelerate to those speads but at those speeds they would need some type of fuel to decelerate in space. And we are back to square 1. 
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Posted: 7/29/2015 2:07:36 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
1: Lagging and lingering thrust is hardly proof the device does not function. Go turn a nuclear reactor off and observe the result. 2: There's an easy solution to the "it's just thermally induced magic thrust!" claim of the critics. Repeat the experiment with the device unpowered, then heat the device using a laser to the same operating temperature. Then turn the laser off and observe for thrust. No thrust = not thermal. Thrust = thermal. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
"Davis noticed some problems in the experiment as well. “I noted in [the study’s] conclusion paragraphs that [Tajmar’s] apparatus was producing hundreds of micro-Newtons of thrust when it got very hot and that his measuring instrumentation is not very accurate when the apparatus becomes hot,” Davis told io9. “He also stated that he was still recording thrust signals even after the electrical power was turned off which is a huge key clue that his thrust measurements are all systematic artifact false positive thrust signals.”" 1: Lagging and lingering thrust is hardly proof the device does not function. Go turn a nuclear reactor off and observe the result. 2: There's an easy solution to the "it's just thermally induced magic thrust!" claim of the critics. Repeat the experiment with the device unpowered, then heat the device using a laser to the same operating temperature. Then turn the laser off and observe for thrust. No thrust = not thermal. Thrust = thermal. You seem very convinced that this is valid technology. I'm not sure your optimism is justified by the experimental results so far. |
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Posted: 7/29/2015 2:10:34 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes it will stop but it would be a long duration to come to a complete stop traveling at thousands of miles an hour otherwise the crew would not survive the stop. Once they get up to the speeds it would take to reach those distant places in such a short amount of time how would they stop safely if they needed to quickly? This may solve the problem on needing fuel to accelerate to those speads but at those speeds they would need some type of fuel to decelerate in space. And we are back to square 1. Balancing acceleration with deceleration isn't exactly square 1 when the mass problem is resolved. Stopping quickly isn't a consideration. We don't have any ability to detect anything presenting a danger fast enough to warrant stopping in order to avoid them, even then, you don't necessarily need to stop to avoid it, only alter your trajectory slightly. |
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Posted: 7/29/2015 2:14:16 PM EDT
[#48]
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It is a little more complicated than that. I understand what Junkhunter is saying. We went to the Moon. We went back, and took our clubs. Still not enough, we went back with a dune buggy... I worked for Ben Rich in the 1979-85 years. Sure security was tight, but we had "leaks". We were fighting the cold war. People knew that something was going on at Groom Lake. The Skunk Works was in the middle of Burbank. Projects were not discussed with family, but they knew we were working on cool stuff. Imagine the backyard BBQ with a guy that was working on the Flying Crowbar. "Yeah Herb, can't tell ya what it is, but we are building an asskicker! Blow old Ivan's balls right off!. The sonovabitch will never hear it coming" It gave people something - without risking the project. Times have changed, People are overloaded with (largely meaningless) information. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I hear of all this wondrous shit but it never seems to come to fruition. Also I've noticed that nothing good happens any more. Step back and take a little wider view. We've come an awful long way in the last 200 years... hell, we went from horse and buggies to landing a man on the moon in basically a single lifetime. Unfortunately, while innovation is still there, it certainly doesn't take center stage like it once did. People seem to be losing the urge to know things just for the sake of knowing them, which is really the driver of innovation and discovery. It is a little more complicated than that. I understand what Junkhunter is saying. We went to the Moon. We went back, and took our clubs. Still not enough, we went back with a dune buggy... I worked for Ben Rich in the 1979-85 years. Sure security was tight, but we had "leaks". We were fighting the cold war. People knew that something was going on at Groom Lake. The Skunk Works was in the middle of Burbank. Projects were not discussed with family, but they knew we were working on cool stuff. Imagine the backyard BBQ with a guy that was working on the Flying Crowbar. "Yeah Herb, can't tell ya what it is, but we are building an asskicker! Blow old Ivan's balls right off!. The sonovabitch will never hear it coming" It gave people something - without risking the project. Times have changed, People are overloaded with (largely meaningless) information. And beyond that, there's a lot of things wrong with people. We have whole segments of society content to spend their entire lives within the confines of their own neighborhoods and accomplish nothing while other segments endorse that kind of existence and enthusiastically subsidize it. A few decades ago the first manned Moon landing captivated billions. If the first manned Mars landing happened today, I can only guess at the number that wouldn't even know about it. |
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Posted: 7/29/2015 2:16:39 PM EDT
[#49]
yes, the future is here!
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Posted: 7/29/2015 2:26:38 PM EDT
[#50]
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So the thing runs in violation of the law of conservation of momentum, but counts on the law of conservation of momentum to stop, then. If that's the case, then you'd have to spend the first half of every trip accelerating, and the second half decelerating. No more 4-hours-to-the-moon speed. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Acknowledging that I'm an idiot regarding these types of things, I would think it would take more than cutting the power to stop when you're going "4-hours-to-the-moon" speed in space. It's simple, flip a 180 and turn the power back on. Thrust then slows. So the thing runs in violation of the law of conservation of momentum, but counts on the law of conservation of momentum to stop, then. If that's the case, then you'd have to spend the first half of every trip accelerating, and the second half decelerating. No more 4-hours-to-the-moon speed. 
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