User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 9/10/2013 8:30:35 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Maybe someone will finally hold univiserties accountable for what they charge? |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/10/2013 8:32:56 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How so ? They decided on their major. If you fail to research the job prospects of the degree you're looking at, that's your problem. Four year culinary degree ? Great, welcome to the Applebee's family. The kitchen is back there. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It's sad to see these kids take loans to go to cooking and art schools. And then they're saddled with debt. How so ? They decided on their major. If you fail to research the job prospects of the degree you're looking at, that's your problem. Four year culinary degree ? Great, welcome to the Applebee's family. The kitchen is back there. The problem is 20 years of being told by parents,educators and prospective employers that " it doesn't matter what a degree is in. The new workplace values other skill and knowledge sets and the days of working for the same company for 20 years are gone". As to the " I worked through school,these kids can too". I worked through 3 years of school and took a loan to get me over the hump. The difference was that I borrowed $9k and got a job paying me $600 a week upon graduation,which was a ton for a kid who had been happy to make $8/hr. If you haven't looked around,not only are the entry level jobs scarce but ones for graduates as well. Do you remember who used to work at McDonalds when you were a teen? We sure didn't have senior citizens who needed the income? The economy is a much,much different place than when I was a kid and I can't possibly blame the 18-22 year olds who only know what BS has been fed to them for continuing to buy into it. Statistically speaking,college graduates will still earn more than those without a degree.There are still many doors closed to people without paper and in many cases needlessly but overall I think job prospects and educational issues are symptoms of the disease. Some things are easy targets: women's studies grads who are professional baristas as an example but other things need looked at too,such as just what the hell are kids taught from K-12 and by whom. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/10/2013 8:33:49 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Y'all's logic is flawed. Are car loans the reason cars are so expensive? TRG Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The University of Miami can charge 35,000 per year for an undergraduate degree because of student loans. The cheap, non-dischargeable money from the government has caused tuition hikes. This should be quoted again. When in school my tuition started going up significantly each semester for the last year and a half. Before that it was very minor increases, then it was 300, then 400, then 600, and then I graduated so I have no clue how high it is now. But they were able to continue getting the increases so they kept pushing the envelope. The government made this all possible by getting involved. You could also see the demographics of the student body shifting towards the end. Y'all's logic is flawed. Are car loans the reason cars are so expensive? TRG Colleges are guilty of Brand selling as well. Degrees from certain universities imply a certain sophistication in the marketplace. You can jack your prices if you've built the right brand. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/10/2013 8:37:37 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And how should those of us that paid back their student loans and also wrote big tax check feel about it? Shouldn't we get a refund for the bills we already paid back? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
My wife and I were going to pay off a bunch of student loans and reduce our debt and such (we've got a chunk of cash) but decided to wait in case there's some "forgiveness" stupidity coming down the pipe. Are you planning on participating in some type of .gov loan forgiveness program? If you do you would become a card carrying member of the FSA. Goddamn right. I wrote a huge fucking check last April 15th to the IRS. I don't view it as being FSA, I view it as getting my money back.. And how should those of us that paid back their student loans and also wrote big tax check feel about it? Shouldn't we get a refund for the bills we already paid back? You should be pissed. Hence why I'm not paying mine off faster. So I'm less pissed when Obama decides to fuck something else up. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/10/2013 8:43:39 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Around here, all of the community colleges are going to 4 year programs. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
When universities start getting desperate, you'll see them close down the community college "loophole" that's becoming very popular-you do your 100-200 level courses there for low tuition, and transfer your junior year to the "brand name" college for your 300 and 400 level courses and the prestigious name on your degree. Around here, all of the community colleges are going to 4 year programs. Ours do as well, but having UVA, Virginia Tech, or College of William and Mary on a diploma has a lot more perceived value than one with Northern Virginia Community College. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/10/2013 8:45:27 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So who thinks this leads down a road to where the gov will forgive student loans? Sadly I think you may be correct. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/10/2013 8:48:20 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ours do as well, but having UVA, Virginia Tech, or College of William and Mary on a diploma has a lot more perceived value than one with Northern Virginia Community College. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
When universities start getting desperate, you'll see them close down the community college "loophole" that's becoming very popular-you do your 100-200 level courses there for low tuition, and transfer your junior year to the "brand name" college for your 300 and 400 level courses and the prestigious name on your degree. Around here, all of the community colleges are going to 4 year programs. Ours do as well, but having UVA, Virginia Tech, or College of William and Mary on a diploma has a lot more perceived value than one with Northern Virginia Community College. They're mostly applied science programs with meeting government regulated business requirements. The degree is the requirement for qualification. Not so much the brand... |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/10/2013 9:03:29 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The former is part and parcel to the latter.  Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
You've convinced me, tuition is the result of student loans being available, it has nothing to do with the socialist construct of subsidized education after all. TRG The former is part and parcel to the latter. The loans are irrelevant to the price. the price is not based upon the customer's ability to pay for the product in the first place. Tuition is something around 12% of our operating budget. http://www.vpcomm.umich.edu/pa/key/understandingtuition.html Not my college in that link, but worth the read to explain what tuition means to a school, and what it does not. TRG |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/10/2013 9:04:20 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
All tuition has been rising much faster than inflation or the cost of living for decades because of student loans. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Maybe someone will finally hold univiserties accountable for what they charge? This is a big part of the problem You can't be serious. No one is forcing anyone to go to an expensive school. There are still reasonably priced state schools. All tuition has been rising much faster than inflation or the cost of living for decades because of student loans. The first part is true, and I ask "so what?" The second part is only partially correct. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/10/2013 9:10:46 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Even state schools are ridiculously expensive compared to 20-25 years ago, before the government mandated cheap loans, and the universities raised tuition in response to the glut of (artificial) demand. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Maybe someone will finally hold univiserties accountable for what they charge? This is a big part of the problem You can't be serious. No one is forcing anyone to go to an expensive school. There are still reasonably priced state schools. Even state schools are ridiculously expensive compared to 20-25 years ago, before the government mandated cheap loans, and the universities raised tuition in response to the glut of (artificial) demand. State schools are generally subsidized. They are more expense because, as TRG pointed out, their base costs have gone up while states have left funding flat or even cut it. This is while students have demanded better facilities, housing/dining etc. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/10/2013 9:10:50 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Tired of getting fucked by students who aren't going to pay?  Oh, there going to pay. Either they will pay or their co-signers will pay. Parents who co-signed the student loans will either pay or lose their houses and other assets. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/10/2013 9:10:55 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Imagine for a moment if you had to pay for a new car with cash you saved. What would happen to the car industry and the price of new cars? (what's the concept called again? Supply / De...De... De...??) Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The University of Miami can charge 35,000 per year for an undergraduate degree because of student loans. The cheap, non-dischargeable money from the government has caused tuition hikes. This should be quoted again. When in school my tuition started going up significantly each semester for the last year and a half. Before that it was very minor increases, then it was 300, then 400, then 600, and then I graduated so I have no clue how high it is now. But they were able to continue getting the increases so they kept pushing the envelope. The government made this all possible by getting involved. You could also see the demographics of the student body shifting towards the end. Y'all's logic is flawed. Are car loans the reason cars are so expensive? TRG Imagine for a moment if you had to pay for a new car with cash you saved. What would happen to the car industry and the price of new cars? (what's the concept called again? Supply / De...De... De...??) Imagine if you walked in to a dealership and wanted to buy a car. The car is priced at $18,000.00 You have $500.00 in your pocket and the dealer says, "No problem, local tax payers are going to pick up $16,500.00 for you. Because we believe a good car is the foundation for a good, productive citizen. That remaining balance of $1000.00 we can let the government get you a loan for it." Again, tell me how the LOAN is the issue here? Because that is how colleges are funded, through government funding and subsidy, not through the government loan for tuition. Students, however, do not just get a loan for tuition. they can get loans for books, clothing, food, room and board, pocket money, gasoline. None of which are used to directly pay for their college and are bundled in to the 'loans for tuition' that people carp about. your supply and demand reference is completely negated by the FALSE economy of a Socialist funding scheme in the first place. It is further skewed by government regulations that REQUIRE schools to offer service to student and PAY for them without an increase in funding for the programs. It's a false economy, so supply and demand have nothing to do with it. TRG |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/10/2013 9:12:06 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We have been on that road for about 5 years now. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
So who thinks this leads down a road to where the gov will forgive student loans? We have been on that road for about 5 years now. Agreed. I think it will happen but, like all things government, there will be a "means test" applied to it. If you make over a certain amount, you pay your own. If not, then the gov. pays. I predict it would be the gov. paying for it over the course of a few years with means testing each year. I'm sure there will be other, unspoken rules applied to the program to see who is lucky enough to get their debt paid by the gov...... |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/10/2013 9:33:22 AM EDT
[#14]
Interesting thread. On one side, we see cost drivers provided by professors.
On the other, we see standard economic answers from Austrian economics trying to answer the question. And then, toss in the socialistic issues of government subsidies and budgets because of the belief that an educated populace is better for all involved. IMO, something gets messed up in the last part, with the mental bludgeoning that any education is good. I think there is value in basic education, but I don't think the .gov should be subsidizing all education. I not sure I see any real economic or social value in many of the degree programs out there. One thing I will be explaining to my children before I start footing the bill for college: If you can not pay for the education you receive with the jobs available to that degree, you can pay for it yourself, or find a better degree. TXL |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/10/2013 9:50:35 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When universities start getting desperate, you'll see them close down the community college "loophole" that's becoming very popular-you do your 100-200 level courses there for low tuition, and transfer your junior year to the "brand name" college for your 300 and 400 level courses and the prestigious name on your degree. Parents and Counselors should have been pushing Community College options long before tuition started rising so much. That is if they were smart. There is hardly any difference between the 100 and 200 level courses at a Community College vs those at a 4 year College. If you only make it 2 years at least you have an Associates Degree. Only make it 2 years at a 4 year College you don't get anything to show for it. You'll graduate with 1/2 the debt of those that went their entire 4 years at the Prestigious college and have the same piece of paper at the end. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/10/2013 9:51:56 AM EDT
[#16]
Good one less FSA program. Now if they will stop corporate welfare.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/10/2013 9:53:04 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sadly I think you may be correct. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
So who thinks this leads down a road to where the gov will forgive student loans? Sadly I think you may be correct. No debt is a form of slavery and the debt will not be forgiven ever. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/10/2013 9:57:25 AM EDT
[#18]
Didn't read op book. But came to comment that I am surprised it has taken this long. Entire generation of entitled assholes with no or worthless degrees will claim they didn't understand.
Just like variable rate mortgages. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/10/2013 9:59:28 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Colleges are guilty of Brand selling as well. Degrees from certain universities imply a certain sophistication in the marketplace. You can jack your prices if you've built the right brand. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The University of Miami can charge 35,000 per year for an undergraduate degree because of student loans. The cheap, non-dischargeable money from the government has caused tuition hikes. This should be quoted again. When in school my tuition started going up significantly each semester for the last year and a half. Before that it was very minor increases, then it was 300, then 400, then 600, and then I graduated so I have no clue how high it is now. But they were able to continue getting the increases so they kept pushing the envelope. The government made this all possible by getting involved. You could also see the demographics of the student body shifting towards the end. Y'all's logic is flawed. Are car loans the reason cars are so expensive? TRG Colleges are guilty of Brand selling as well. Degrees from certain universities imply a certain sophistication in the marketplace. You can jack your prices if you've built the right brand. That is not true for public universities and colleges. It is true for private universities to some degree. Public schools still have board members, legislators and taxpayers that are involved in the setting of tuition. We do still attempt to sell the brand and experience as a carrot to attract students though. TRG |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/10/2013 10:01:57 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ours do as well, but having UVA, Virginia Tech, or College of William and Mary on a diploma has a lot more perceived value than one with Northern Virginia Community College. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
When universities start getting desperate, you'll see them close down the community college "loophole" that's becoming very popular-you do your 100-200 level courses there for low tuition, and transfer your junior year to the "brand name" college for your 300 and 400 level courses and the prestigious name on your degree. Around here, all of the community colleges are going to 4 year programs. Ours do as well, but having UVA, Virginia Tech, or College of William and Mary on a diploma has a lot more perceived value than one with Northern Virginia Community College. I think there is some confusion about that 'four year' degree. Most of them are done through articulation agreements with four year schools. We cover the first two years and the four year school guarantees acceptance of all the coursework. Some of the courses can be taken online, some concurrently, etc. It's meant to help keep a student from stopping with a 2 year, Associate Degree, and progress (as a paying customer) to the four year school for the remainder of the education. TRG |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/10/2013 10:09:08 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think there is some confusion about that 'four year' degree. Most of them are done through articulation agreements with four year schools. We cover the first two years and the four year school guarantees acceptance of all the coursework. Some of the courses can be taken online, some concurrently, etc. It's meant to help keep a student from stopping with a 2 year, Associate Degree, and progress (as a paying customer) to the four year school for the remainder of the education. TRG Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
When universities start getting desperate, you'll see them close down the community college "loophole" that's becoming very popular-you do your 100-200 level courses there for low tuition, and transfer your junior year to the "brand name" college for your 300 and 400 level courses and the prestigious name on your degree. Around here, all of the community colleges are going to 4 year programs. Ours do as well, but having UVA, Virginia Tech, or College of William and Mary on a diploma has a lot more perceived value than one with Northern Virginia Community College. I think there is some confusion about that 'four year' degree. Most of them are done through articulation agreements with four year schools. We cover the first two years and the four year school guarantees acceptance of all the coursework. Some of the courses can be taken online, some concurrently, etc. It's meant to help keep a student from stopping with a 2 year, Associate Degree, and progress (as a paying customer) to the four year school for the remainder of the education. TRG That's what I did and it's called a 2+2 program here. Two years community college and the state college accepted all the credits and I completed two more years for my bachelors. Saved a lot of money which was great because I was already married and raising a family. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/10/2013 10:09:33 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Parents and Counselors should have been pushing Community College options long before tuition started rising so much. That is if they were smart. There is hardly any difference between the 100 and 200 level courses at a Community College vs those at a 4 year College. If you only make it 2 years at least you have an Associates Degree. Only make it 2 years at a 4 year College you don't get anything to show for it. You'll graduate with 1/2 the debt of those that went their entire 4 years at the Prestigious college and have the same piece of paper at the end. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
When universities start getting desperate, you'll see them close down the community college "loophole" that's becoming very popular-you do your 100-200 level courses there for low tuition, and transfer your junior year to the "brand name" college for your 300 and 400 level courses and the prestigious name on your degree. Parents and Counselors should have been pushing Community College options long before tuition started rising so much. That is if they were smart. There is hardly any difference between the 100 and 200 level courses at a Community College vs those at a 4 year College. If you only make it 2 years at least you have an Associates Degree. Only make it 2 years at a 4 year College you don't get anything to show for it. You'll graduate with 1/2 the debt of those that went their entire 4 years at the Prestigious college and have the same piece of paper at the end. The part in red is a huge lie. By law, and through articulation agreements, there can be NO difference in the course taught at a CC versus a '4 year' college. There is a governing body that is funded to insure that the educational standards are consistent and equal. The credentials of the faculty must be the same, the items taught, the course outcomes and goals MUST be the same. WE attemnd meetings, every year, to insure our goals are being met and that the standards are being held. There is no difference, at all, none, between a community college Eng 101 and a Freshman English 101 taught at a four year. That misconception has been used, and fostered, by four year colleges to attempt to drive customers away from the community schools. Community schools were put in place to counteract the elitism of the four year schools during the late 1950s and 1960s. Their entire purpose was to make education affordable to the local students who did not have the cash to get in to 'big schools'. State schools have always, always, fought us to keep 'their' customers from coming to us for the EXACT same education. Anyone that tells you a CC is not held to the same standard is either uninformed, a liar, or both. TRG |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/10/2013 10:11:22 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's what I did and it's called a 2+2 program here. Two years community college and the state college accepted all the credits and I completed two more years for my bachelors. Saved a lot of money which was great because I was already married and raising a family. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
When universities start getting desperate, you'll see them close down the community college "loophole" that's becoming very popular-you do your 100-200 level courses there for low tuition, and transfer your junior year to the "brand name" college for your 300 and 400 level courses and the prestigious name on your degree. Around here, all of the community colleges are going to 4 year programs. Ours do as well, but having UVA, Virginia Tech, or College of William and Mary on a diploma has a lot more perceived value than one with Northern Virginia Community College. I think there is some confusion about that 'four year' degree. Most of them are done through articulation agreements with four year schools. We cover the first two years and the four year school guarantees acceptance of all the coursework. Some of the courses can be taken online, some concurrently, etc. It's meant to help keep a student from stopping with a 2 year, Associate Degree, and progress (as a paying customer) to the four year school for the remainder of the education. TRG That's what I did and it's called a 2+2 program here. Two years community college and the state college accepted all the credits and I completed two more years for my bachelors. Saved a lot of money which was great because I was already married and raising a family. I did the same. CC then 4 year. When I did it though, the 4-years were very capricious and arbitrary about what credits they would accept. You had to walk a fine line to be sure your courses transfer. It is much more co-operative these days. TRG |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/10/2013 10:11:38 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There's an easy fix to the student loan crisis: make the debt dischargeable in bankruptcy. It won't ever happen, but this would cause lenders to be much more strict in their underwriting. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/10/2013 10:13:17 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The part in red is a huge lie. By law, and through articulation agreements, there can be NO difference in the course taught at a CC versus a '4 year' college. There is a governing body that is funded to insure that the educational standards are consistent and equal. The credentials of the faculty must be the same, the items taught, the course outcomes and goals MUST be the same. WE attemnd meetings, every year, to insure our goals are being met and that the standards are being held. There is no difference, at all, none, between a community college Eng 101 and a Freshman English 101 taught at a four year. That misconception has been used, and fostered, by four year colleges to attempt to drive customers away from the community schools. Community schools were put in place to counteract the elitism of the four year schools during the late 1950s and 1960s. Their entire purpose was to make education affordable to the local students who did not have the cash to get in to 'big schools'. State schools have always, always, fought us to keep 'their' customers from coming to us for the EXACT same education. Anyone that tells you a CC is not held to the same standard is either uninformed, a liar, or both. TRG Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
When universities start getting desperate, you'll see them close down the community college "loophole" that's becoming very popular-you do your 100-200 level courses there for low tuition, and transfer your junior year to the "brand name" college for your 300 and 400 level courses and the prestigious name on your degree. Parents and Counselors should have been pushing Community College options long before tuition started rising so much. That is if they were smart. There is hardly any difference between the 100 and 200 level courses at a Community College vs those at a 4 year College. If you only make it 2 years at least you have an Associates Degree. Only make it 2 years at a 4 year College you don't get anything to show for it. You'll graduate with 1/2 the debt of those that went their entire 4 years at the Prestigious college and have the same piece of paper at the end. The part in red is a huge lie. By law, and through articulation agreements, there can be NO difference in the course taught at a CC versus a '4 year' college. There is a governing body that is funded to insure that the educational standards are consistent and equal. The credentials of the faculty must be the same, the items taught, the course outcomes and goals MUST be the same. WE attemnd meetings, every year, to insure our goals are being met and that the standards are being held. There is no difference, at all, none, between a community college Eng 101 and a Freshman English 101 taught at a four year. That misconception has been used, and fostered, by four year colleges to attempt to drive customers away from the community schools. Community schools were put in place to counteract the elitism of the four year schools during the late 1950s and 1960s. Their entire purpose was to make education affordable to the local students who did not have the cash to get in to 'big schools'. State schools have always, always, fought us to keep 'their' customers from coming to us for the EXACT same education. Anyone that tells you a CC is not held to the same standard is either uninformed, a liar, or both. TRG This is correct there is no difference, the articulation agreement and even the accreditation board makes sure. I have graduated from a community college and a university and have also been an instructor at both, there is no difference. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/10/2013 10:14:31 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This. It's completely fucked for student loans to have preferential treatment over any other type of unsecured debt. More stringent lending standards will eventually help bring inflated tuition costs back down to sane levels if the bankruptcy exemption is removed. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
There's an easy fix to the student loan crisis: make the debt dischargeable in bankruptcy. It won't ever happen, but this would cause lenders to be much more strict in their underwriting. Nope knowledge cannot be reposed, borrow the money and pay it back like what was agreed upon. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/10/2013 10:15:58 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just like housing, low interest rates have caused people to be able to spend big bucks on credit. You can't fault builders (or universities) for surfing the supply/demand curve. What O and his cronies don't understand, is that cheap money has consequences. Always has, always will... What to you think the auto companies would do if BHO handed out a $10k a year per person auto subsidy??? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Maybe someone will finally hold univiserties accountable for what they charge? This is a big part of the problem Just like housing, low interest rates have caused people to be able to spend big bucks on credit. You can't fault builders (or universities) for surfing the supply/demand curve. What O and his cronies don't understand, is that cheap money has consequences. Always has, always will... What to you think the auto companies would do if BHO handed out a $10k a year per person auto subsidy??? Thank you. Some don't get it. Easy loans means Colleges can raise tuition while keeping quota, even if it is by graduating Masters in basketweaving. The flow of easy money must stop. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/10/2013 10:19:26 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nope knowledge cannot be reposed, borrow the money and pay it back like what was agreed upon. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: There's an easy fix to the student loan crisis: make the debt dischargeable in bankruptcy. It won't ever happen, but this would cause lenders to be much more strict in their underwriting. Nope knowledge cannot be reposed, borrow the money and pay it back like what was agreed upon. I'm not advocating walking out on your loans, but there has to be some risk for the banks, JUST LIKE ANY OTHER LOAN. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/10/2013 10:22:25 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This. It's completely fucked for student loans to have preferential treatment over any other type of unsecured debt. More stringent lending standards will eventually help bring inflated tuition costs back down to sane levels if the bankruptcy exemption is removed. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
There's an easy fix to the student loan crisis: make the debt dischargeable in bankruptcy. It won't ever happen, but this would cause lenders to be much more strict in their underwriting. You can thank Joe Biden for that. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/10/2013 10:22:47 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
By unsecured, I mean like credit card debt. What is repossessed when you go into default on credit card debt? Student loans should be treated like credit card debt. OR they can make it secured by making people pledge some sort of collateral. I'm not advocating walking out on your loans, but there has to be some risk for the banks, JUST LIKE ANY OTHER LOAN. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
There's an easy fix to the student loan crisis: make the debt dischargeable in bankruptcy. It won't ever happen, but this would cause lenders to be much more strict in their underwriting. Nope knowledge cannot be reposed, borrow the money and pay it back like what was agreed upon. I'm not advocating walking out on your loans, but there has to be some risk for the banks, JUST LIKE ANY OTHER LOAN. Yep. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/10/2013 10:23:59 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
By unsecured, I mean like credit card debt. What is repossessed when you go into default on credit card debt? Student loans should be treated like credit card debt. OR they can make it secured by making people pledge some sort of collateral. I'm not advocating walking out on your loans, but there has to be some risk for the banks, JUST LIKE ANY OTHER LOAN. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
There's an easy fix to the student loan crisis: make the debt dischargeable in bankruptcy. It won't ever happen, but this would cause lenders to be much more strict in their underwriting. Nope knowledge cannot be reposed, borrow the money and pay it back like what was agreed upon. I'm not advocating walking out on your loans, but there has to be some risk for the banks, JUST LIKE ANY OTHER LOAN. If that's the case the degrees and credits should be lost. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/10/2013 10:24:30 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The first part is true, and I ask "so what?" The second part is only partially correct. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
All tuition has been rising much faster than inflation or the cost of living for decades because of student loans. The first part is true, and I ask "so what?" The second part is only partially correct. If you don't see the problem with a bunch of un-/underemployed, high-debt holding youngsters in a democracy, I don't know what to tell you. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/10/2013 10:25:08 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If that's the case the degrees and credits should be lost. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
There's an easy fix to the student loan crisis: make the debt dischargeable in bankruptcy. It won't ever happen, but this would cause lenders to be much more strict in their underwriting. Nope knowledge cannot be reposed, borrow the money and pay it back like what was agreed upon. I'm not advocating walking out on your loans, but there has to be some risk for the banks, JUST LIKE ANY OTHER LOAN. If that's the case the degrees and credits should be lost. You've got to explain why student loans should be treated any different from credit card debt in the first place, chief. NAH NAH BECAUSE I SAID SO ain't gonna cut it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/10/2013 10:26:56 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If that's the case the degrees and credits should be lost. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/10/2013 10:28:19 AM EDT
[#35]
If there were more demand offshore for U.S. college graduates, being an expat beyond the reach of would-be student debt collectors would be a lot more common.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/10/2013 10:30:13 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is correct there is no difference, the articulation agreement and even the accreditation board makes sure. I have graduated from a community college and a university and have also been an instructor at both, there is no difference. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
When universities start getting desperate, you'll see them close down the community college "loophole" that's becoming very popular-you do your 100-200 level courses there for low tuition, and transfer your junior year to the "brand name" college for your 300 and 400 level courses and the prestigious name on your degree. Parents and Counselors should have been pushing Community College options long before tuition started rising so much. That is if they were smart. There is hardly any difference between the 100 and 200 level courses at a Community College vs those at a 4 year College. If you only make it 2 years at least you have an Associates Degree. Only make it 2 years at a 4 year College you don't get anything to show for it. You'll graduate with 1/2 the debt of those that went their entire 4 years at the Prestigious college and have the same piece of paper at the end. The part in red is a huge lie. By law, and through articulation agreements, there can be NO difference in the course taught at a CC versus a '4 year' college. There is a governing body that is funded to insure that the educational standards are consistent and equal. The credentials of the faculty must be the same, the items taught, the course outcomes and goals MUST be the same. WE attemnd meetings, every year, to insure our goals are being met and that the standards are being held. There is no difference, at all, none, between a community college Eng 101 and a Freshman English 101 taught at a four year. That misconception has been used, and fostered, by four year colleges to attempt to drive customers away from the community schools. Community schools were put in place to counteract the elitism of the four year schools during the late 1950s and 1960s. Their entire purpose was to make education affordable to the local students who did not have the cash to get in to 'big schools'. State schools have always, always, fought us to keep 'their' customers from coming to us for the EXACT same education. Anyone that tells you a CC is not held to the same standard is either uninformed, a liar, or both. TRG This is correct there is no difference, the articulation agreement and even the accreditation board makes sure. I have graduated from a community college and a university and have also been an instructor at both, there is no difference. Ok, I should have worded that line better. I also attended a CC my first 2 years before transferring to the state 4 year college. There is a perception among some people that the CC courses are not held to the same standard as a 4 year college. Which as you both have pointed out is a lie. In my opinion the ones that say this are trying to justify why they paid more for their education. In the end you get the same piece of paper and your employer could care less where you got your degree as long as it came from an accredited university. Now Ivy league degrees may be a different story, however I'm sure most of the ones who go to Ivy league schools are no smarter than your average college aged person. They just have access to more successful and wealthy people to make business connections. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/10/2013 10:36:02 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm all for losing credits and degrees in that situation. The preferential treatment is what really grinds my gears. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
If that's the case the degrees and credits should be lost. Conflicts of interest- the colleges will only withhold degrees and transcripts if the colleges are owed money. Once one the debt proceeds are transferred to a college they couldn't care less if the loans default. There would have to be some mechanism to place a lien on a degree for that to work, with more bureaucracy, lawsuits, etc. That would open the door to placing liens on intellectual property which would be a huge can of worms. To keep it simple- if the government doesn't subsidize student loans by guaranteeing them then there will be fewer student loans and less inflation, the end. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/10/2013 10:41:31 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't see universities on the corner with guns forcing students to pay to go to school. If the student can't afford to pay his/her way out of pocket (or their parents can't afford it), there are ways to go to school without incurring student loan debt. I paid my way through school by working all four years. I also went to school all 3 semesters a year. There's no reason students today can't do the same thing. The problem is that in order to do that, it would require a full time commitment to work and school. Kids today don't want that. They think everything should be given to them. They've been taught that by today's society and its "everyone gets a trophy" mentality so the thought that they may have to actually work to accomplish what they want is a foreign concept. I don't blame the banks either. If you were the CEO of a company and saw the .gov sticking its hand in everyone's business forcing them to take a loss (mortgage refi's at below loan balance), would you want to risk your capital (or your shareholders) to loan money in an environment when 'ol Jugears is mentioning student loan forgiveness? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Maybe someone will finally hold univiserties accountable for what they charge? I don't see universities on the corner with guns forcing students to pay to go to school. If the student can't afford to pay his/her way out of pocket (or their parents can't afford it), there are ways to go to school without incurring student loan debt. I paid my way through school by working all four years. I also went to school all 3 semesters a year. There's no reason students today can't do the same thing. The problem is that in order to do that, it would require a full time commitment to work and school. Kids today don't want that. They think everything should be given to them. They've been taught that by today's society and its "everyone gets a trophy" mentality so the thought that they may have to actually work to accomplish what they want is a foreign concept. I don't blame the banks either. If you were the CEO of a company and saw the .gov sticking its hand in everyone's business forcing them to take a loss (mortgage refi's at below loan balance), would you want to risk your capital (or your shareholders) to loan money in an environment when 'ol Jugears is mentioning student loan forgiveness? you are forgetting a crucial detail. the college age young adults have the highest unemployment rate in the US. there are no jobs for them. those jobs are currently taken up by older adults that are underemployed from previous higher paying jobs and by companies who have transititioned to Part Time help instead of Full Time help due to OBAMA Care. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/10/2013 10:42:11 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thank you. Some don't get it. Easy loans means Colleges can raise tuition while keeping quota, even if it is by graduating Masters in basketweaving. The flow of easy money must stop. The idea that easy loans don't increase inflation is absurd on its face. We've got a couple of academics doing mental gymnastics to the contrary because they benefit from the arrangement, that's all. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/10/2013 10:43:13 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryYou've got to explain why student loans should be treated any different from credit card debt in the first place, chief. NAH NAH BECAUSE I SAID SO ain't gonna cut it. Because in my opinion chief your are paying for knowledge not material things that can be taken back through forfeiture and repossession. If student loans could be forgiving in bankruptcy would you be all for the borrower losing the credits/degree? If so the we are on the same page and if not then its just FSA getting something for nothing. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/10/2013 10:43:52 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Tired of getting fucked by students who aren't going to pay? More likely is that the .gov takeover of student loans resulted in the Dept. of Ed becoming the primary student loan lender, leaving banks with too small of a market (those who've exhausted their stafford loans or those who don't qualify for stafford loans). |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/10/2013 10:48:07 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Because in my opinion chief your are paying for knowledge not material things that can be taken back through forfeiture and repossession. If student loans could be forgiving in bankruptcy would you be all for the borrower losing the credits/degree? If so the we are on the same page and if not then its just FSA getting something for nothing. Quote HistoryQuoted:
You've got to explain why student loans should be treated any different from credit card debt in the first place, chief. NAH NAH BECAUSE I SAID SO ain't gonna cut it. Because in my opinion chief your are paying for knowledge not material things that can be taken back through forfeiture and repossession. If student loans could be forgiving in bankruptcy would you be all for the borrower losing the credits/degree? If so the we are on the same page and if not then its just FSA getting something for nothing. Maybe then they'll be more careful about tossing money at any ass hole with a pulse, which only fills up the schools with garbage and devalues everybody else's degree. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/10/2013 10:49:26 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Because in my opinion chief your are paying for knowledge not material things that can be taken back through forfeiture and repossession. If student loans could be forgiving in bankruptcy would you be all for the borrower losing the credits/degree? If so the we are on the same page and if not then its just FSA getting something for nothing. Quote HistoryQuoted:
You've got to explain why student loans should be treated any different from credit card debt in the first place, chief. NAH NAH BECAUSE I SAID SO ain't gonna cut it. Because in my opinion chief your are paying for knowledge not material things that can be taken back through forfeiture and repossession. If student loans could be forgiving in bankruptcy would you be all for the borrower losing the credits/degree? If so the we are on the same page and if not then its just FSA getting something for nothing. You think reposessing an art history degree matters? Hilarious. I can use a credit card to go on a road trip across the country and see, I dunno, NFL home games at each stadium. Nothing tangible purchased worth repossessing. Never pay it back, declare bankruptcy, credit card company gets nothing. The same thing should be the case with student loans. Unlike you, I simply don't care about whether or not someone is getting a degree for nothing. Most likely it'll be a useless degree in the first place. I'm not interested in punishing the hippies who get an art history degree and can't find work. Don't care. In the bankruptcy situation, the lender will have to price risk into the lending (shocking, I know) and take into account the fact that some loans might go into bankruptcy. Just like the rest of the economy. Harder to get loans for art history, easier to get loans for STEM degrees. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/10/2013 10:50:30 AM EDT
[#44]
Man, I hope so.
Nothing would be more rewarding than to see the liberal reeducation camps get strapped for cash and be forced to lay off staff and lower tuition prices. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/10/2013 10:53:12 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You think reposessing an art history degree matters? Hilarious. I can use a credit card to go on a road trip across the country and see, I dunno, NFL home games at each stadium. Nothing tangible purchased worth repossessing. Never pay it back, declare bankruptcy, credit card company gets nothing. The same thing should be the case with student loans. Unlike you, I simply don't care about whether or not someone is getting a degree for nothing. Most likely it'll be a useless degree in the first place. I'm not interested in punishing the hippies who get an art history degree and can't find work. Don't care. In the bankruptcy situation, the lender will have to price risk into the lending (shocking, I know) and take into account the fact that some loans might go into bankruptcy. Just like the rest of the economy. Harder to get loans for art history, easier to get loans for STEM degrees. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You've got to explain why student loans should be treated any different from credit card debt in the first place, chief. NAH NAH BECAUSE I SAID SO ain't gonna cut it. Because in my opinion chief your are paying for knowledge not material things that can be taken back through forfeiture and repossession. If student loans could be forgiving in bankruptcy would you be all for the borrower losing the credits/degree? If so the we are on the same page and if not then its just FSA getting something for nothing. You think reposessing an art history degree matters? Hilarious. I can use a credit card to go on a road trip across the country and see, I dunno, NFL home games at each stadium. Nothing tangible purchased worth repossessing. Never pay it back, declare bankruptcy, credit card company gets nothing. The same thing should be the case with student loans. Unlike you, I simply don't care about whether or not someone is getting a degree for nothing. Most likely it'll be a useless degree in the first place. I'm not interested in punishing the hippies who get an art history degree and can't find work. Don't care. In the bankruptcy situation, the lender will have to price risk into the lending (shocking, I know) and take into account the fact that some loans might go into bankruptcy. Just like the rest of the economy. Harder to get loans for art history, easier to get loans for STEM degrees. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/10/2013 11:01:53 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You think reposessing an art history degree matters? Hilarious. I can use a credit card to go on a road trip across the country and see, I dunno, NFL home games at each stadium. Nothing tangible purchased worth repossessing. Never pay it back, declare bankruptcy, credit card company gets nothing. The same thing should be the case with student loans. Unlike you, I simply don't care about whether or not someone is getting a degree for nothing. Most likely it'll be a useless degree in the first place. I'm not interested in punishing the hippies who get an art history degree and can't find work. Don't care. In the bankruptcy situation, the lender will have to price risk into the lending (shocking, I know) and take into account the fact that some loans might go into bankruptcy. Just like the rest of the economy. Harder to get loans for art history, easier to get loans for STEM degrees. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
You've got to explain why student loans should be treated any different from credit card debt in the first place, chief. NAH NAH BECAUSE I SAID SO ain't gonna cut it. Because in my opinion chief your are paying for knowledge not material things that can be taken back through forfeiture and repossession. If student loans could be forgiving in bankruptcy would you be all for the borrower losing the credits/degree? If so the we are on the same page and if not then its just FSA getting something for nothing. You think reposessing an art history degree matters? Hilarious. I can use a credit card to go on a road trip across the country and see, I dunno, NFL home games at each stadium. Nothing tangible purchased worth repossessing. Never pay it back, declare bankruptcy, credit card company gets nothing. The same thing should be the case with student loans. Unlike you, I simply don't care about whether or not someone is getting a degree for nothing. Most likely it'll be a useless degree in the first place. I'm not interested in punishing the hippies who get an art history degree and can't find work. Don't care. In the bankruptcy situation, the lender will have to price risk into the lending (shocking, I know) and take into account the fact that some loans might go into bankruptcy. Just like the rest of the economy. Harder to get loans for art history, easier to get loans for STEM degrees. Ever been a college instructor, assoc prof, or prof? If so and you have seen some of the so called students I have you wouldn't want them to get out of paying for anything. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/10/2013 11:02:15 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Because in my opinion chief your are paying for knowledge not material things that can be taken back through forfeiture and repossession. If student loans could be forgiving in bankruptcy would you be all for the borrower losing the credits/degree? If so the we are on the same page and if not then its just FSA getting something for nothing. Your 'something for nothing' also ignores the point of forfeiture, which is to sell the collateral after you repossess it. You aren't going to resell the art history degree. Treating it like collateral is ludicrous. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/10/2013 11:03:23 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ever been a college instructor, assoc prof, or prof? If so and you have seen some of the so called students I have you wouldn't want them to get out of paying for anything. I've spent more time in postsecondary education than 99% of this board, and I have the debt to show for it. And no, I don't care about the individual students/debtors. I care about the big picture. You should try it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/10/2013 11:06:04 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How so ? They decided on their major. If you fail to research the job prospects of the degree you're looking at, that's your problem. Four year culinary degree ? Great, welcome to the Applebee's family. The kitchen is back there. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It's sad to see these kids take loans to go to cooking and art schools. And then they're saddled with debt. How so ? They decided on their major. If you fail to research the job prospects of the degree you're looking at, that's your problem. Four year culinary degree ? Great, welcome to the Applebee's family. The kitchen is back there. Exactly. I know people that took art classes in college. They work at White Castle. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/10/2013 11:07:55 AM EDT
[#50]
Currently I make less than 20k. But will soon have something better. But nevertheless, I will always pay my debts on time and in full of what's owed. I will never accept any govt hand out or bail out... ever. FBHO
|
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
