Teen Shot Dead in own home by cop, answering the door with a long gun in the middle.. *Updates Pg 25 - Page 2

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Teen Shot Dead in own home by cop, answering the door with a long gun in the middle.. *Updates Pg 25 (Page 2 of 30)

Posted: 8/30/2010 3:43:26 PM EDT

[#1]

I had someone pound on my door at 11:45 one night. Didn't say anything and couldn't see cause the light was out. So I answered the door Sig in hand. Once the light from the inside of the house hit the badge I told him to hold on a second and unloaded and set it down. His first question was "Do you have a permit for that?"

and I told him that I needed no permit in Ohio to have a gun in my position in my own home. Then he looked at me like

and continued asking me if I heard anything earlier.

Posted: 8/30/2010 3:44:00 PM EDT

[#2]

Well, we don't know the whole story.

Posted: 8/30/2010 3:44:12 PM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Jail time for the officer. End of discussion

You derived that from the all of the info (100% correct I'm sure) from the small little news article?

The first apologist has shown up.

Posted: 8/30/2010 3:44:36 PM EDT

[#4]

Not enough info.

Need more details.

Posted: 8/30/2010 3:44:40 PM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:

did his dog survive?

Yes, but that was part of the problem. News didn't report that it was actually a furry party and he came to the door dressed as a dog.

Posted: 8/30/2010 3:45:04 PM EDT

[#6]

Horrible for everyone involved.

Posted: 8/30/2010 3:45:35 PM EDT

[#7]

Sad.

Need more details.

This should be a good case for anyone who plans on always being armed while responding to a knock late at night to have a security camera there to record the events.

Posted: 8/30/2010 3:46:23 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:

If I dont see you on the monitor and I dont hear you when I ask you to announce yourself on the intercomm I dont open the door period. If then you identify yourself as a LEO then I doublecheck the DVR to see your squad car, if all that checks out I will ask them to step outside the screen porch so I can come outside and close the door behind myself to talk to them. If after all that one screws up and shoots me at least I have video and audio to have posted here so there is no doubt what happened.

Watch out for the audio in your security cameras... that can be considered eavesdropping or wiretapping, and require consent of both parties.

I don't know how it is in Florida... you might want to double-check on that, otherwise your evidence can get thrown out in court, and a bad guy could walk.

I would think that a sign posted at the front door that you are being recorded on vid with sound would take care of that.

Yes it would and does.

Posted: 8/30/2010 3:47:05 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:

If I dont see you on the monitor and I dont hear you when I ask you to announce yourself on the intercomm I dont open the door period. If then you identify yourself as a LEO then I doublecheck the DVR to see your squad car, if all that checks out I will ask them to step outside the screen porch so I can come outside and close the door behind myself to talk to them. If after all that one screws up and shoots me at least I have video and audio to have posted here so there is no doubt what happened.

Watch out for the audio in your security cameras... that can be considered eavesdropping or wiretapping, and require consent of both parties.

I don't know how it is in Florida... you might want to double-check on that, otherwise your evidence can get thrown out in court, and a bad guy could walk.

I would think that a sign posted at the front door that you are being recorded on vid with sound would take care of that.

That doesn't mean they consent... and depending on the state, simple notification may not be enough.

A lot of camera installers specifically DON'T record audio for this reason.

Posted: 8/30/2010 3:47:21 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
Horrible for everyone involved the victim and the family of the victim

SnappyMcTriggerFinger gets a paid vacation.

Posted: 8/30/2010 3:48:01 PM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:

Quoted:
How come when it is an innocent person involved all shots hit their mark, but when its a dickbag cop killer involved its 130 shots fired and 2 hit, non fatal?

Simple, the Dirtbag is firing back at the police and they are running for cover or behind cover.

That's true.

Posted: 8/30/2010 3:49:13 PM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Jail time for the officer. End of discussion

You derived that from the all of the info (100% correct I'm sure) from the small little news article?

The first apologist has shown up.

That makes him an apologist?

Posted: 8/30/2010 3:49:24 PM EDT

[#13]

In before oily4wd.

Posted: 8/30/2010 3:49:51 PM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
A my wife thought I was crazy to brick up the front door.

Yeah, but wasn't she OUTSIDE when you did it?

Posted: 8/30/2010 3:50:45 PM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:

Quoted:

I would think that a sign posted at the front door that you are being recorded on vid with sound would take care of that.

Yes it would and does.

You might want to ask an attorney in FL about that.

Posted: 8/30/2010 3:51:49 PM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Jail time for the officer. End of discussion

You derived that from the all of the info (100% correct I'm sure) from the small little news article?

The first apologist has shown up.

That makes him an apologist?

Posted: 8/30/2010 3:52:24 PM EDT

[#17]

Simple solution. Don't answer the door at midnight unless it's someone you know coming over.

Posted: 8/30/2010 3:56:22 PM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:

I had someone pound on my door at 11:45 one night. Didn't say anything and couldn't see cause the light was out. So I answered the door Sig in hand. Once the light from the inside of the house hit the badge I told him to hold on a second and unloaded and set it down. His first question was "Do you have a permit for that?"

and I told him that I needed no permit in Ohio to have a gun in my position in my own home. Then he looked at me like

and continued asking me if I heard anything earlier.

It seems the idiocy of some LEO knows no bounds when it comes to firearms.

Posted: 8/30/2010 3:57:25 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:

Jail time for the officer. End of discussion

Posted: 8/30/2010 3:57:40 PM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I had someone pound on my door at 11:45 one night. Didn't say anything and couldn't see cause the light was out. So I answered the door Sig in hand. Once the light from the inside of the house hit the badge I told him to hold on a second and unloaded and set it down. His first question was "Do you have a permit for that?"

and I told him that I needed no permit in Ohio to have a gun in my position in my own home. Then he looked at me like

and continued asking me if I heard anything earlier.

It seems the idiocy of some LEO knows no bounds when it comes to firearms.

Fixed

Posted: 8/30/2010 3:59:37 PM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
http://www.wsoctv.com/news/24809223/detail.html

MORGANTON, N.C. –– A 17-year-old boy was killed in an officer-involved incident in Morganton.

Morganton public safety officers responded to a noise complaint at Independence mobile home park, located on Air Park Drive, just after midnight on Monday.
The teenager answered the door and was armed with a long gun, officers said.

Family members said Michael Sipes, who was a Freedom High School student and a member of the ROTC, died after being hit by gunfire.
Two officers responded to the disturbance call, but only one fired his gun.

Area resident Korey Forneysaid he never heard the officers identify themselves as police, but said he heard at least four gunshots.
“They didn't identify themselves as police,” he said. “That's why he came outside. But he had (the gun) in a position where he wasn't going to fire.”
Mark Tolbert, chief of Morganton Public Safety, said the officer did identify himself when he knocked on the door.
Family members said they are left with many questions.

“He was going to go in the army next year," Sipes’ stepmother, Angie Cook, said. “He was a good kid. He didn't bother nobody. He tried to help everybody he could.”
Public safety officials said they have been called to the home before. Tolbert said he thinks the officer who fired feared for his life.

“I do believe the officer did feel threatened,” Tolbert said. “The proximity, … the weapon presence, his recognition of the weapon at the outset.”
Agents with the State Bureau of Investigation are helping with the investigation. Until it is completed, both officers are on paid administrative leave.

COOL!
This works both ways right?

ETA: I just answered my door (to a stranger), and I was holding an AR15. It was hidden from view, but had it been 11:45 at night, things might have been different.

Posted: 8/30/2010 4:03:57 PM EDT

[#22]

Ive noticed on cops they dont identify themselves when they are sledge hammering in your door..
Good way to get your ass blown off...

Posted: 8/30/2010 4:06:57 PM EDT

[#23]

cops were obviously high on donut glaze...

Posted: 8/30/2010 4:10:22 PM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:

Quoted:
If I shoot a cop that comes to my door, will I go to jail, or will I be put on paid vacation until the investigation and inevitable trial is over?

The guy in Va Beach who had a plain-clothes cop and his buddy try to break into his house (via a botched no-knock-ish raid based on the word of a CI with a grudge against the suspect who was told to break into the suspect's home to find evidence of an MJ grow operation - which turned out to be Japanese Maple trees) in the middle of the night and fired to defend himself got sent to jail for 10 years. It is abundantly clear that civilian use of force is held to a MUCH stricter standard than police use of force.

And civilians don't get a crew of experts who are typically "brothers" to back them up

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Posted: 8/30/2010 4:13:04 PM EDT

[#25]

Why is it that everyone here automatically says news articles are wrong and witnesses very unreliable, but when they involve the police shooting someone, the witnesses and articles are 100% correct?

Some of you really need to get over your hate for police.

There is nowhere near enough information to make an informed decision.

Posted: 8/30/2010 4:13:51 PM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Horrible for everyone involved the victim and the family of the victim

SnappyMcTriggerFinger gets a paid vacation.

Maybe a medal too

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Posted: 8/30/2010 4:24:34 PM EDT

[#27]

It would be interesting to hear what the police audio recorders picked up assuming that hey have them in that town.

Posted: 8/30/2010 4:25:41 PM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:

Why is it that everyone here automatically says news articles are wrong and witnesses very unreliable, but when they involve the police shooting someone, the witnesses and articles are 100% correct?

Some of you really need to get over your hate for police.

There is nowhere near enough information to make an informed decision.

This is all they gave us. It's a typical news piece. We comment all day long on other news pieces - but when one involves questionable police activity the line forms quickly.

When will we have enough information? Why do we bother commenting on the item? - because after the investigation is complete we rarely remember what it was anyway.

Why did we waste out time with that 7-year-old in Detroit who was shot months ago? It was filmed for a TV show. Perhaps we should only comment on completed investigations - and even then only post officially released conclusions.

Are you suggesting we ignore or not allow LE related stories?

Posted: 8/30/2010 4:28:52 PM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Why is it that everyone here automatically says news articles are wrong and witnesses very unreliable, but when they involve the police shooting someone, the witnesses and articles are 100% correct?

Some of you really need to get over your hate for police.

There is nowhere near enough information to make an informed decision.

This is all they gave us. It's a typical news piece. We comment all day long on other news pieces - but when one involves questionable police activity the line forms quickly.

When will we have enough information? Why do we bother commenting on the item? - because after the investigation is complete we rarely remember what it was anyway.

Why did we waste out time with that 7-year-old in Detroit who was shot months ago? It was filmed for a TV show. Perhaps we should only comment on completed investigations - and even then only post officially released conclusions.

Are you suggesting we ignore or not allow LE related stories?

No, I think it's pretty messed up that everyone around here says don't trust news stories, or there isn't enough info, except when it comes to articles about police use of force. If one of those come along, the story is 100% accurate, and the police are always wrong.

Posted: 8/30/2010 4:29:38 PM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:

Quoted:

I would think that a sign posted at the front door that you are being recorded on vid with sound would take care of that.

Yes it would and does.

You might want to ask an attorney in FL about that.

Another question to consider is whether openly videotaping falls under wiretapping laws. *If* wiretapping laws do apply, wikipedia (caveat emptor) says FL is a dual / all party consent state. The other states, again according to wikipedia, are California, Connecticut, Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania and Washington. (source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telephone_recording_laws)

Posted: 8/30/2010 4:29:38 PM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:

Quoted:

I would think that a sign posted at the front door that you are being recorded on vid with sound would take care of that.

Yes it would and does.

You might want to ask an attorney in FL about that.

It's no different than the two way voice listen in and recording that my central station provides for me from the security system.

Posted: 8/30/2010 4:36:15 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:

Quoted:

I would think that a sign posted at the front door that you are being recorded on vid with sound would take care of that.

Yes it would and does.

You might want to ask an attorney in FL about that.

Another question to consider is whether openly videotaping falls under wiretapping laws. *If* wiretapping laws do apply, wikipedia (caveat emptor) says FL is a dual / all party consent state. The other states, again according to wikipedia, are California, Connecticut, Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania and Washington. (source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telephone_recording_laws)

There is NO wiretapping as on my private property I can do as I like, if you dont like it, than heed the signs and dont trespass. I have this system for security and use it for this purpose.

Posted: 8/30/2010 4:40:29 PM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:

Quoted:
If I shoot a cop that comes to my door, will I go to jail, or will I be put on paid vacation until the investigation and inevitable trial is over?

The guy in Va Beach who had a plain-clothes cop and his buddy try to break into his house (via a botched no-knock-ish raid based on the word of a CI with a grudge against the suspect who was told to break into the suspect's home to find evidence of an MJ grow operation - which turned out to be Japanese Maple trees) in the middle of the night and fired to defend himself got sent to jail for 10 years. It is abundantly clear that civilian use of force is held to a MUCH stricter standard than police use of force.

And civilians don't get a crew of experts who are typically "brothers" to back them up

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

I'm 99.999% certain Ryan's defense team admitted he had a small "personal" grow operation (and not bonsai).

Posted: 8/30/2010 4:40:47 PM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:

Quoted:

I would think that a sign posted at the front door that you are being recorded on vid with sound would take care of that.

Yes it would and does.

You might want to ask an attorney in FL about that.

Another question to consider is whether openly videotaping falls under wiretapping laws. *If* wiretapping laws do apply, wikipedia (caveat emptor) says FL is a dual / all party consent state. The other states, again according to wikipedia, are California, Connecticut, Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania and Washington. (source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telephone_recording_laws)

This quotes Telephone recording not video camera recordings.

Roy

Posted: 8/30/2010 4:41:46 PM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:
No, I think it's pretty messed up that everyone around here says don't trust news stories, or there isn't enough info, except when it comes to articles about police use of force. If one of those come along, the story is 100% accurate, and the police are always wrong.

Perhaps we should question why the tendency is to trust a source of information here that has been repeatedly questioned here (namely the media) over the accounts and rulings of law enforcement officers and organizations. To put it bluntly: many trust the news organizations here over the cops because they have, despite their noted flaws, proven themselves to be more honest in the reporting of these cases than the police organizations involved..

Posted: 8/30/2010 4:44:04 PM EDT

[#36]

It seems if you have a propensity for murder, you might want to join the force.

Posted: 8/30/2010 4:46:22 PM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:

Quoted:
If I shoot a cop that comes to my door, will I go to jail, or will I be put on paid vacation until the investigation and inevitable trial is over?

The guy in Va Beach who had a plain-clothes cop and his buddy try to break into his house (via a botched no-knock-ish raid based on the word of a CI with a grudge against the suspect who was told to break into the suspect's home to find evidence of an MJ grow operation - which turned out to be Japanese Maple trees) in the middle of the night and fired to defend himself got sent to jail for 10 years. It is abundantly clear that civilian use of force is held to a MUCH stricter standard than police use of force.

And civilians don't get a crew of experts who are typically "brothers" to back them up

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

I'm 99.999% certain Ryan's defense team admitted he had a small "personal" grow operation (and not bonsai).

Personal "grow operations" do not justify warrants for no-knock raids in the middle of the night. That entire case was fucked from the get-go...

Posted: 8/30/2010 4:48:31 PM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:
Sounds like the cops did everything right, according to the cops quoted in the story.

––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––-

Posted: 8/30/2010 4:50:03 PM EDT

[#39]

What the fuck?

Posted: 8/30/2010 4:53:10 PM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Jail time for the officer. End of discussion

You derived that from the all of the info (100% correct I'm sure) from the small little news article?

The first apologist has shown up.

Well after the first dumbass kneejerk reactionary did.....

Brian

Posted: 8/30/2010 4:54:24 PM EDT

[#41]

I look forward to the involuntary manslaughter conviction, at best.

Our system must shelter its enforcers from the laws they enforce, accountability is only for the peasants.

Posted: 8/30/2010 4:55:29 PM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Jail time for the officer. End of discussion

You derived that from the all of the info (100% correct I'm sure) from the small little news article?

The first apologist has shown up.

Well after the first dumbass kneejerk reactionary did.....

Brian

Posted: 8/30/2010 4:55:41 PM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Sounds like the cops did everything right, according to the cops quoted in the story.

––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––-

The irony......

Brian

Posted: 8/30/2010 4:56:45 PM EDT

[#44]

If the police are wrong in this case, I hope they get fucked hard.

Posted: 8/30/2010 4:58:33 PM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:

Quoted:
How come when it is an innocent person involved all shots hit their mark, but when its a dickbag cop killer involved its 130 shots fired and 2 hit, non fatal?

It's easy to shoot accurately when there is zero chance bullets coming back down-range.

That was my line of thought as well.

Posted: 8/30/2010 4:59:48 PM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Jail time for the officer. End of discussion

You derived that from the all of the info (100% correct I'm sure) from the small little news article?

The first apologist has shown up.

Well after the first dumbass kneejerk reactionary did.....

Brian

Posted: 8/30/2010 5:00:06 PM EDT

[#47]

I'm thinking we need all the info. The story is woefully inadequate.

The cops could be blood thirsty racist killers or the kid could have been an attempted cop killer and then it could be anything inbetween.

We just don't know.
I have a feeling it is going to be one of those "Bad shit just happens sometimes." moments.
People are justified to answer late night knocks with a gun. (if that is what happened)

Police do not have to wait to see if they are going to get shot before they shoot at people pointing guns at them. (if that is what happened)
Sometimes bad things happen and the best intentions or even good legislation (or bad legislation) and great training and policies just can't prevent it.

Posted: 8/30/2010 5:01:16 PM EDT

[#48]

This is why I don't answer my door. Whomever it is will go away eventually.

Posted: 8/30/2010 5:02:17 PM EDT

[#49]

Good shoot all the way. Why not? If people are going to make final judgement based upon that high quality, well written and in depth article then what the hell.

Posted: 8/30/2010 5:02:26 PM EDT

[#50]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Why is it that everyone here automatically says news articles are wrong and witnesses very unreliable, but when they involve the police shooting someone, the witnesses and articles are 100% correct?

Some of you really need to get over your hate for police.

There is nowhere near enough information to make an informed decision.

This is all they gave us. It's a typical news piece. We comment all day long on other news pieces - but when one involves questionable police activity the line forms quickly.

When will we have enough information? Why do we bother commenting on the item? - because after the investigation is complete we rarely remember what it was anyway.

Why did we waste out time with that 7-year-old in Detroit who was shot months ago? It was filmed for a TV show. Perhaps we should only comment on completed investigations - and even then only post officially released conclusions.

Are you suggesting we ignore or not allow LE related stories?

We will have enough information after the sealed police files are released. Should be 50-100 years in most cases.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Teen Shot Dead in own home by cop, answering the door with a long gun in the middle.. *Updates Pg 25 (Page 2 of 30)

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