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Posted: 10/3/2002 2:37:45 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Probably some assholes hired by the Brady Bunch to use a .50 in order to get them banned. . YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD! I BET THESE "CRIMINAL KILLERS" ARE CAUGHT USING AN AR-50 OR LAR GRIZZLY. JUST IN TIME FOR THE VPC'S RANTS ABOUT .50 BMGS! yelling mode off. CRC No way they were using .50BMG. If they had, that Shell gas station would have been disintegrated instantly; and no trace of the bodies would be found--they'd all be vaporized. Hell, the .50 would've gone through the victim and made a sharp 90 degree turn upward and taken out the nearest plane as well. BAN THEM NOW![/sarcastic Imbroglio mode off] Torf, you are probably right. Just being pessimistic and paranoid. |
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Posted: 10/3/2002 2:39:37 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted: BTW - I might be ordering a .50 BMG before this week is out. [V] You and me both, brother. We may want to see what comes of this first though. It could be something else they're trying to ban. What happens if it's just a Remington 700, 3-9x40 scope, in 30.06 or .270? They going to go after those? All in all, this is bad news for all of us gun owners. We HAVE to band together, and watch the elections this November. Better yet, we have to get out there and VOTE, and get everyone else we can to VOTE, WITH us. -Gloftoe |
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Posted: 10/3/2002 2:43:18 PM EDT
[#3]
Quoted: Quoted: Probably some assholes hired by the Brady Bunch to use a .50 in order to get them banned. Trickshot, you are amazing. This is not about Iraq or anything else that you or I know of. Your paranoid conspiracies are amazing. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, please tell me that was an ironic joke. Because otherwise, you are the one who is amazing. Telling trickshot (correctly) to stuff his paranoid conpiracies - ONLY to then post your own paraniod conspiracy theory. Eitehr way - intenttional joke or not - that was FUNNY [:D] Hey, I have my paranoid moments, they just aren't continual. I really don't believe that, but given the timing, one has to wonder. |
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Posted: 10/3/2002 2:55:29 PM EDT
[#4]
Interesting,
This incident occurred right across the street from a fire station too. (see my previous post) At 9:58 am, a woman was shot and killed cleaning out her car at the Shell station at Connecticut and Knowles. 9 News Reporter Dave Statter at the scene says the woman was vacumning out her mini- van when she was shot. Witnesses say they heard a bang, and noticed the woman was underneath her car. [green]Green circle is the parking lot.[/green] [red]Red circle is the fire house,[/red] [img]us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/e5db3464/bc/Glenmont/__hr_gex02.jpg?bcBmNn9AuBhFkmrg[/img] --LS |
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Posted: 10/3/2002 3:09:34 PM EDT
[#5]
we have to get out there and VOTE, and get everyone else we can to VOTE, WITH us.
-Gloftoe You got that right! |
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Posted: 10/3/2002 3:13:18 PM EDT
[#6]
I can't belive the crap that's being posted. Add another layer of foil to the hat my friends.
When the next terrorist attack comes, (and it will) you'll know it. It won't be a couple of wackos driving around in a truck shooting random people. And the theory that it's a ploy by the anti gun folks to disarm us. That's just ridiculous. |
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Posted: 10/3/2002 3:15:00 PM EDT
[#7]
Looks like someone might be thumbing their noses at public safety officials by killing these people right in front of public safety buildings.
Or it could be coincidence.. |
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Posted: 10/3/2002 3:16:05 PM EDT
[#8]
This worries me a bit... even carrying a handgun how the heck are you going to protect yourself from a sniper across the street? One would *hope* there would be enough armed bystanders close to the shooter to return fire. In that scenario, the shooter gets one victim and is then wasted. However when there are only sheeple around it looks like you can go around town sniping with impunity... wonder if the victims had enough time to "dial 911"!!!
I just had a thought, there might be multiple shooters coordinating these attacks. Somebody reports the Isuzu truck but all the other attacks could be a different vehicle and occupants alltogether. |
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Posted: 10/3/2002 3:33:27 PM EDT
[#9]
I don't know about multiple shooters, there was more than enough time for a single shooter in a vheicle to travel from place to place.
Also there are two different descriptions of the vheicle according to this article:[url]http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/maryland_shootings[/url] Police at first said they were looking for two people in a sport utility vehicle. Moose later said they were searching for a white cargo van with black lettering, possibly with damage to the lift in the back. The only consistant thing is damage to the rear door/tailgate. Could that be the firing port? While we are at it. Does Maryland have the death penalty now? They didn't for a long time as I recall. |
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Posted: 10/3/2002 3:55:36 PM EDT
[#10]
[url]http://www.dailypress.com/news/dp-shootings0923(0,4144550).story?coll=dp%2Dheadlines%2Dtopnews[/url]
How far is Williamsburg Va., from Montgomery Co. MD.??? |
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Posted: 10/3/2002 4:00:38 PM EDT
[#11]
I'm waiting to see if they come up with any rifling marks from peices of shed bullet jacket. This may be possible if the bullets were .30cal or above, but problematic at best if the bullet were in the .22-.25 range.
You would think if the killers were going to go to the trouble of cutting a firing port in a van, that they would have taken some sort of precaution to limit the report of the high powered rifle? yet a loud report has been heard in almost all cases. this tends to make me think that the Izuzu/Mitsu truck is probably stolen and has been ditched. The big question now, is will these guys steal anouther vehicle tonight and begin this whole killing spree process again tomorrow. |
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Posted: 10/3/2002 4:08:41 PM EDT
[#12]
Middle Eastern Islamic Terrorists ?.... Maybe!
Our Own Sicko's Out For Revenge On A Society That They Envy And Hate ?.. Possible! Anti-Gun Conspiricy ?.... Get Real! "Goatboy" Johnny Walker Lindh Wannabees From Overpriveledged Backgrounds, Bored With Sex, Drugs And Rock 'n' Roll ?.....Think about it!!! Anybody know what distance the longest shot came from? I've been to most of the scenes and it seems to me that 100yds. would be a long one! Any decent shot with an iron-sighted .30-30 lever gun could have pulled this off. Worry about your .50BMG rifles, the anti's want 'em bad - but worse - watch your hunting rifles because a scoped bolt-action .243,.270,.308,etc. are now becoming "telescopic sighted long-range sniper weapons" and they'll be coming for them next. And remember - this time it'll be YOUR fault if they get them! And don't think of coming to Colorado after it happens in MD. We won't welcome you if you can't take care of your own home State. So get the f**k out of there before it happens, or shut up and stay put! |
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Posted: 10/3/2002 4:08:55 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted: [url]http://www.dailypress.com/news/dp-shootings0923(0,4144550).story?coll=dp%2Dheadlines%2Dtopnews[/url] How far is Williamsburg Va., from Montgomery Co. MD.??? More than close enough. Especally as the Williamsburg VA shootings took place on the 23rd. Sounds like the same MO though. |
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Posted: 10/3/2002 4:15:35 PM EDT
[#14]
Williamsburg is no more than 4 hours away from the Maryland shootings.
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Posted: 10/3/2002 4:17:06 PM EDT
[#15]
You would think if the killers were going to go to the trouble of cutting a firing port in a van, that they would have taken some sort of precaution to limit the report of the high powered rifle? How long does it take to cut a hole in the back door of a vheicle if you have even halfway decent tools, as opposed to fabricating some kind of silencer? Its very difficult for humans unaided to pinpoint the direction of the sound of a single gunshot. And the muzzle of a rifle is a very small thing to see if you are not looking for it. They stick the muzzle out the port, fire, pull it in and the driver slowly pulls away like nothing has happened. |
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Posted: 10/3/2002 4:24:42 PM EDT
[#16]
I looked up Wash. DC to Williamsburg, VA on an internet distance calculator, 114 miles straight line distance.
Why cut a port? If the cab has a "pass through" to the box, you get in the box, open a cab window and shoot through the open window. Or you prone out in the box, and crack the cargo door. I would also suspect that you would keep the muzzle well back from the "port" you are using so there will be no visible muzzle flash. |
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Posted: 10/3/2002 4:31:39 PM EDT
[#17]
the first 100 miles go by really fast in about 1.5 hours. It the last 14 miles that takes 3 hours. Driving from my house south of DC in VA takes about 2.5 hours. It takes me about 30mins to 1 hr to get to Rockville during any time except Midnight - 4am.
You do the math......it would be about 3 hours if hauling ass late at night or early morning. They stopped the spree in Williamsburg on the 23rd. That's 10 days...... Maybe Pennsylvania on the 13th? Or NY? Let's see....... Ed |
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Posted: 10/3/2002 5:01:59 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted: I looked up Wash. DC to Williamsburg, VA on an internet distance calculator, 114 miles straight line distance. Why cut a port? If the cab has a "pass through" to the box, you get in the box, open a cab window and shoot through the open window. Or you prone out in the box, and crack the cargo door. I would also suspect that you would keep the muzzle well back from the "port" you are using so there will be no visible muzzle flash. If they were using a SUV, cutting a hole would be needed to to shoot prone from the back. Cutting a hole in the door of the panel truck would be a smaller opening than leaving the door open. With either kind of door-side swinging or vertical roll up-opening the whole door enough for the shooter to see through a scoped rifle even from the prone would also leave a big enough opening to see the shooter. It also would mean somone would have to go and close the door before the vheicle could move off. More movement to be detected, more exposure. So many of those Ivcos or Mitsubishi delivery trucks have doors that have damage at their bottom edges/corners from accidentally swinging shut on things, or from being moved when the door is open. A crushed, pealed up, or broken off lower corner or edge would not be considered unusual-its unusual that it was noticed at all. You would not want to expose yourself in any window. Even for a moment. Nothing can look out of the ordinary. Just a delivery truck or SUV with a single person behind the wheel driving. If the only person seen in a vheicle is the one driving it, even if it is where the sound came from, people will discount it as the source. Flash is only visable at night and is even then momentary, someone would have to have been looking right at the spot the shooter was at when he fired to see it. However I only assumed that the muzzle proturded because I assumed that the shooter would not want to be deaf-though he could be wearing ear protection. |
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Posted: 10/3/2002 5:55:34 PM EDT
[#19]
I agree with your comment on Terror. The random acts may be a combination of opportunity and planning. But they are definitely creating Terror over a large area of a major metropolitan area. They are unlikely to repeat there strikes in the locations already struck. It is probable they will wait several days or weeks and strike somewhere else. Any city of considerable size within 200 miles might become a "hunting ground" for these criminals. Let's hope they did something stupid such as a traffic violation and have left a trail for Police investigators to follow.
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Posted: 10/3/2002 5:58:42 PM EDT
[#20]
Per the info he gave me, the scum bags killers are using rifles. Boy, you DO have the inside info! This is going to kill any chance of the assault weapon ban being lifted, lets face it, no matter what type of weapon that is being using, it will be and "assault weapon" Guarantee it! Here, please have a big cup of [size=4][b]STFU![/size=4] [/b] W'll never win with that attitude- keep your negative comments to yourself please. One lady was cleaning her car, and was literally blown under her vehicle by the round. Bullshit - physically impossible. Stop watching so many movies. This [b]would[/b] be an excellent way to "terrorize"(hence the term terrorism!) an area. Send the message ' we can reach you anywhere, anytime' |
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Posted: 10/3/2002 6:23:03 PM EDT
[#21]
sorry if this has been posted, but I don't have time to read the whole thread
isn't it strange this happened so close to the election? We're what, a touch over a month away? |
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Posted: 10/3/2002 6:38:45 PM EDT
[#22]
I don't know.....for some reason this screams to me 'dry run'. Doesn't have to be ME pukes, could be near anyone.....but I don't think they're doing this just for jollies. I'm feeling like they're trying to 'test the system'....see if their plan of attack works, gauge police response time.....see how good the police are at handling multiple incidents...things like that....
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Posted: 10/3/2002 6:49:07 PM EDT
[#23]
From [url]http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A37433-2002Oct3.html[/url]:
"Police said they are looking for a small, slightly damaged white truck that may have black lettering on the side." [img]http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20021003/capt.1033648860.mideast_iraq_un_us_bag101.jpg[/img] hmmm... -kill-9 |
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Posted: 10/3/2002 7:30:15 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted: I find it interesting that the police have not found any spent rifle casings at any of these locations. Single shots if the news reports are correct. Bolt action rifles don't eject the case unless you cycle the bolt. Also, if semi-automatic, the casing may well have been ejected inside the vehicle. Hopefully the police will find something, like surveillance tapes, or witness reports that will help find the perps. |
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Posted: 10/3/2002 7:36:35 PM EDT
[#25]
[img]http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20021003/s/1033684875.2483044417.jpg[/img]
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Posted: 10/3/2002 7:40:16 PM EDT
[#26]
'High Powered'....
I'm guessing a bolt-action deer rifle, .308 or 30-06... Of course, the Pols will probably use this to try and ban AR-10's, Barretts, PSGs, or other guns totally different from the (unbannable, because hunters would have a fit) Remmington 700, Winchester Model 70, or whatever that was actually used... But then again, gun control isn't supposed to make sense (not that banning hunting rifles woule, either)... Just think, in a gun-free society, this whacko would probably use pipe bombs, or gasoline... |
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Posted: 10/3/2002 8:11:03 PM EDT
[#27]
Ok ill put my own spin on this. It could actually help us. look what happened after 9/11
people bought guns even tho the perps didnt use them. People felt threatened so they bought something to protect themselfs with. Now you have perps shooting random people. with guns. people get scared people do not like feeling defenceless If this does come out to be terrorists I think the masses may buy a large amount of guns... tho I may be wrong it wouldnt be the first time OS |
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Posted: 10/4/2002 2:47:42 AM EDT
[#28]
Mongomery County Police Chief Charles Moose just said that it's a "90% probability" that it was a .223 round. [V]
-kill-9 |
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Posted: 10/4/2002 3:21:18 AM EDT
[#29]
Yep, and the CNN news anchor - in her ingnorance - called it a "assault hunting rifle 223 brown."
WTF, over? edited: So did Mont. Co. Police Chief Moose in a press conference. [puke] |
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Posted: 10/4/2002 3:40:50 AM EDT
[#30]
IF it's a .223 and that picture is from one of the scenes, after passing through someone that is not going to leave a hole like that. More likely shatter the hole window.
I bet it's a 7mm, .300 or .338 mag or ultra mag. I think a .338 ultra mag would hit a person and roll than under their vehicle. |
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Posted: 10/4/2002 4:04:02 AM EDT
[#31]
Some Marines in my office brought up the game "Grand Theft Auto III". I have never played it, but from what they have described it sounds like someone has taken it to reality. Maybe someone who has played it can comment.
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Posted: 10/4/2002 4:25:05 AM EDT
[#32]
More proof that video games kill people... not guns. hehe
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Posted: 10/4/2002 4:25:35 AM EDT
[#33]
What's the latest on this story?
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Posted: 10/4/2002 4:55:17 AM EDT
[#34]
For the latest, I suggest:
[url]http://www.washingtonpost.com/[/url] -kill-9 |
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Posted: 10/4/2002 4:59:14 AM EDT
[#35]
The chief of police said"he is 90% sure a .223 rifle was used and it could be an assault type weapon or anything from a hunting rifle that alot of citizens in the county own" BUT the picture the media shows is of an Armalite AR180! Why not a hunting rifle? Especially since there was only 1 shot fired in all of the shootings except 1 incident where 2 shots were fired?
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Posted: 10/4/2002 4:59:58 AM EDT
[#36]
They have shell casings, or so they claimed this AM. Then they say they are 90% sure it's .223. Um, well I know police and FBI and military guys can't be stupid enough to not be able to look at any random shell casing and say, .223, .45, .338, .270, 30-06, etc......
Simple ask someone who reloads or the armorer from the SWAT team. The police chief says it's likely a high velocity hunting round or a high velocity round from and assault weapon. Again, an FBI forensics dude could tell you by the scoring on the case whether it is a bolt action or a semi-auto. I think at this point the idiots are dropping the buzzwords that everyone has become familar with..."assault weapon", "high powered rifle", etc. It is not an amateur I can tell you that for sure. Anybody who takes 6 shots and makes 5 kills is not an amateur. Whether it is time sitting at a bench zeroing the rifle for hunting normal game species, or whether shooting human mock-ups in a military/terroistic camp. They are shooting for the head. Take a look at the picture of the window....that was a ladies head in front of that hole. From witnessing what happens to the .223 when going through a Level 2 vest: My LC stamped surplus went in with a .223 sized hole and left with a hole larger than a .308. The vest was about 3" from front panels to back panels so from penetration to exit it had yawed enough to "keyhole" a fairly large hole. Which mimics the hole you see in that window. Up close the perspective is different. It's not as big as it looks in the photo.. It's about the size of a man's thumb. Ed |
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Posted: 10/4/2002 5:03:43 AM EDT
[#37]
CHUNG: Well, that's what police say. They say that he is experienced, skilled. He's calculating.
Knowing that, I think some people would assume -- and I would as well -- that this person might have a military background or a police background. Is that a false assumption? BROWN: Well, it is certainly one area to look at, one avenue to go down, because the person does have a skill, but that doesn't necessarily mean that anybody who -- this could be a dear hunter as well. [Comment: I sure hope it was a "dear" hunter, and not a "deer" hunter. This could give deer hunters a bad name. Of course, if it was a dear hunter, it could give dear hunters a bad name also. If it does turn out to be a dear hunter, I'm afraid my wife will never call me dear again.] If the truck is large enough, the person could be -- I also agree with the police that it might well be two people: one driving, one perhaps kneeling down with perhaps a rifle. We don't know yet that it is a rifle, so it could be some other weapon [Comment: Like a pistol, shotgun, blowgun, or brick?] But they definitely have practiced enough. So we are looking for somebody who either hunts a lot, who has military experience, who has spent a lot of time at gun ranges. This is a person who has stacks of "Guns & Ammo" magazines in his home. [Comment: What? No stacks of Shooting Times, Shotgun News or American Rifleman magazines?] This is someone who really likes weaponry. |
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Posted: 10/4/2002 5:19:40 AM EDT
[#38]
if they found shell casings either the guy is not a "military professional" or he is very sloppy.
That is making me think it was a semi-auto vs a bolt gun. One shot from a bolt is easy to recover the brass. |
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Posted: 10/4/2002 5:19:43 AM EDT
[#39]
Here's a thought regarding 90% sure:
Guy goes to range X with a 22-250. Guy picks up brass of same caliber from range X. (Could be .223 or 5.56, or even the same 22-250) Guy sights in rifle at range X, leaving his brass behind (or taking it with to dispose of later). Guy shoots victims, leaving the brass he picked up from range X for a .223 (or 5.56), instead of his own 22-250 brass. Police find brass. They cannot be sure it came from the gun, so they throw out a number to make the press feel happy.-- 90% |
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Posted: 10/4/2002 5:24:13 AM EDT
[#40]
Here's another thought.
If these are actually terrorists from al-queda, then there might be more attacks like this soon.... Maybe they are testing this scenario, before the others try it too?? |
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Posted: 10/4/2002 5:42:04 AM EDT
[#41]
McBoingBoing616,
Your in Colorado but you've been to most of the scenes and know the distances?? |
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Posted: 10/4/2002 5:44:59 AM EDT
[#42]
The shooter is probably taking shots from inside the "panel truck". So even if it is a "semi-auto" they can recover brass on the fly or after.
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Posted: 10/4/2002 6:04:17 AM EDT
[#43]
ATF dude is on Fox News now "educating" the media on .223 and rifles that can fire the round. ATF guy is holding an AR at the podium.
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Posted: 10/4/2002 6:09:37 AM EDT
[#44]
Sorry... maybe its an FBI dude on Fox News. Chief Moose introduced him as ATF. Fox News' banner says FBI...
Anyway, he held up a scoped, bolt-action hunting rifle as well as an example. I couldn't tell what it was. |
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Posted: 10/4/2002 6:11:27 AM EDT
[#45]
Quoted: ATF dude is on Fox News now "educating" the media on .223 and rifles that can fire the round. ATF guy is holding an AR at the podium. Did you hear him specifically say "this is a Colt AR-15. If these weapons haven't been banned in your community YET, they are legal to own if they were produced before a certain date." This guy is full of crapp. At least he did finally bring out a bolt-action, scoped Rem700 to look at. |
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Posted: 10/4/2002 6:19:05 AM EDT
[#46]
Im betting the killer used a Daewoo. Probly with a thumb-hole stock. What are the odds of The police looking for four .556 rifles and coming up with one of those?
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Posted: 10/4/2002 6:20:03 AM EDT
[#47]
I'm trying to locate the wording in the Al-Qaida 'manual' but someone posted on FR an interesting correlation between the 'training manual' and the victims selected in the shooting.
"kill the infidel in his field (lawn mowing victim), as he gathers his food (supermarket victim), as he waters his camel (fills his gas tank), etc." Also, per Newsmax, they referenced the Al-Qaida training tape that was seized - which showed, what else... "Concealing shooters in the beds of pickup trucks." Maybe its only coincidental, but it still surprises me that the news media, as well as law enforcement officials in MD can so quickly discount that its not 'terrorist' related - when they don't have anything but 'a white box truck' and a shell casing as part of their investigation. I find it completely plausible that they'd rather not say it even remotely bears a resemblance to a terrorist act for fear of scaring the sheeple. Whoever is responsible, thought out this sick twisted scheme with quite a bit of planning, especially if there is more than one individual responsible - driver and shooter. One random psycho shooter is possible - two psychos acting together to pull this off again and again...I'm not so quick to discount members of a 'sleeper cell.' |
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Posted: 10/4/2002 6:27:52 AM EDT
[#48]
Man.. This is too much- We're looking at what appears to be a team of
cold-blooded killers carefully killing random people in their suburban neighborhoods.. I don't know if its Al Quadea or not, but it seems like terrorism to me.. Whats the Ar15.com response? Huge thread about what to do if this comes to your town? Nah.. Instead, huge thread about ballistics, armchair commandoing, insane conspiracy theories about this being an anti-gunner plot, bitching about the media, critiqueing the shooter's abilities etc. etc.. C'mon people.. Priorities! You think the Chief of Police is busy trying to spin this into a antigun message when he has an honest to God nightmare unfolding in his county? Splash some water on your face and re-think this, Okay? I'm sure that the anti-gun spin on this will come- but first-things-first! We can deal with that when it comes.. ..I'm starting to think the actual AR15.com SHTF scenario response is this: SHTF. 1) Log onto AR15.com 2) Bitch about how SHTF will lead to anti-gun laws. 3) Suggest Sarah Brady conspiracy caused S to HTF. 4) Debate 5.56 vs. 7.62. ...bear with me a little on this- I have family in that neighborhood so my thoughts are different from most on this board.. but if these guys are the killers they seem to be- They won't stay and they'll be coming to some one else's neighborhood soon. |
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Posted: 10/4/2002 6:30:52 AM EDT
[#49]
Fox News reporting that there may be a possible 6th shooting at around 9:00 pm last night, 7700 block of Georgia Ave. inside the district. Said it was a guy in his 70's.
I lived in Balto for a couple years in the 90's. Glad I am not there anymore. So much talk about who the possible suspects are, I just wanted to take a second to remember those who lost their lives and pray for their families and friends to have strength. |
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Posted: 10/4/2002 6:35:18 AM EDT
[#50]
...and despite having the resources of the ATF, FBI, CIA, Secret Service, and every other gov agency in close proximity, the local police still don't have ass to go on. they and the media are jumping around like clueless monkeys.
btw, is it CONFIRMED that a shell casing had/has been recovered. |
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