Quoted: trust me you really don't know about TAXMAN.

You havent seen me on a strong subject or a bad day.

Logging for the night, I shall return!  and maybe bring cheeseburgers

Quoted: I'm kind of in a position of what the hell to buy.  I want some kind of sports car, American V8, but I'm not real fond of Mustangs or Ford in general.  The Camaro will be out in Feb-March 09 but I don't know if I will be able to afford one.  There is really nothing worth a crap out there as far as a true sports car.   Bill3508

uuuuummmmm hello?!? Corvette?

Quoted: Quoted: That is my car exactly except mine has a rear spoiler.  I already tried a set of golf clubs and they fit, might could get two.  Can you run 89 octane in it as long as your don't push it?  I might mod it but probably only intake, exhaust, and maybe headers. Bill3508 You can run 89 and even 87 in it, but the computer retards timing and performance suffers, as does mileage.  In fact, one of the guys over at ls2gto.com ran the math on it, and with the reduced mileage, found that it was actually cheaper to run 93 in the car. Guys also do run E85 in it with no problems, even though it isn't explicitly flex fuel. I've done the intake and replaced the mufflers, as well as the previously mentioned shifter mod.  Woke the car up a bit, and sounds great now.  I also swapped out the black interior panels for the ones from the blue interior, so now my car has the blue interior, but with black seats.  It looks badass IMO. i37.photobucket.com/albums/e86/ibdmentd/GTO/DSC04030.jpg i37.photobucket.com/albums/e86/ibdmentd/GTO/DSC03944.jpg Only thing I have found wrong with it is the button on the passenger seat back side that makes it go forward, won't make it go back to its original position as indicated in the manual.  You have to use the bottom seat adjuster to move it back.  Other than that I can find nothing else.  I drove it around some more a while ago, its sweet. Bill3508 i37.photobucket.com/albums/e86/ibdmentd/GTO/DSC03943.jpg

Quoted: Quoted: I'm kind of in a position of what the hell to buy.  I want some kind of sports car, American V8, but I'm not real fond of Mustangs or Ford in general.  The Camaro will be out in Feb-March 09 but I don't know if I will be able to afford one.  There is really nothing worth a crap out there as far as a true sports car.   Bill3508 uuuuummmmm hello?!? Corvette?

Too small, plus I'm just a lowly UPS truck loader.  I don't break your stuff but I know where it most likely happens.

Bill3508

Quoted:

The button moves the seat in the direction that the seat back is in.  If the seat is forward, the button moves the seat forward, same for going back.  Took me a bit to figure that out

Quoted: Quoted: The button moves the seat in the direction that the seat back is in.  If the seat is forward, the button moves the seat forward, same for going back.  Took me a bit to figure that out

With the seat back it still doesn't work.  

Bill3508

Quoted: Quoted: Only have to drive 1 once to be in love. This was true, after driving it and putting up with its failings for a few months I hated it.   Reminds me of this woman, was ok to hang around, good once you sleep with her, you like her.  After abit all the good things wear off and you see the things you were looking past, always wants money, everything you do is wrong, always bitching.

OMG ROFL THAT is FUNNY!!!!  AND TRUE!


Taxman, sorry you had such a bad experience.  Listen, you had a bad car, doesn't mean all GTOs are bad.  Your main problem was with the service you got.  

Best thing to do is find a dealer with a good service department and then stick with them over the years.  For example, my brother sold cars at Holz Pontiac/Cadillac/GMC in Watertown WI.  A friend of mine was also a mechanic there, and a very good one.  Through them, I got to know the service manager there, John.  So, beginning in the 90's, whenever one of my vehicles had an issue that was beyond my ability to fix, I took it there.  They take good care of me.  

My brother moved on to selling real estate, and my friend left there to teach auto shop at the local tech college.  But John is still there running the service department.  I just dropped $1000 there, needed a new fuel pump put in my 98 Chevy pickup, and the motor/regulator assembly replaced in the driver window of my 99 Alero.  They always give me 20% of list for genuine GM parts, and stick to the book times for labor, and they do the job right.

List of jobs they have done for me in the last 15 years-

Rebuild engine in girlfriends car (purchased there) - 1990 Olds with 2.4L Quad 4 HO.  The car was purchased used, no warranty, but they still gave us 50% off the total bill because the engine design had known head gasket issues.  

Remove dead engine and install used low mileage engine (GM 2.8L) from Smartparts in 86 Jeep Cherokee, converted from mechanical to electric fuel system.....total cost $1600.

New clutch and pressure plate assembly in my 92 K1500 - don't remember what that costed.

New fuel pump in 98 K1500 - $480 including the tow.  A local corner garage quoted me $1000!

New window motor and regulator in 99 Olds Alero - $500 (around $400 of that was the part, and if there was a cheaper source we could get the part locally within a day or two, John would have if I requested it).

It's not like they get a lot of work from me, but they really treat me good.  So much so, that it effects my decisions as far as buying vehicles.  I tend to stay with GM vehicles mainly because I know I can take it to Holz if I have to and they will take care of me.


ETA:  I CAN'T SAY THIS STRONGLY ENOUGH......FIND A GOOD, HONEST SERVICE DEPARTMENT THAT WANTS YOUR BUSINESS, FORM A PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP WITH THEM, AND STICK WITH THEM!

Quoted: FIND A GOOD, HONEST SERVICE DEPARTMENT THAT WANTS YOUR BUSINESS

Good luck with that in todays car world.

The ONLY dealership service dept. I have had no qualms with in the last 20 years is Hyundai. They actually want to help you be happy.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=7244&viewitem=&item=320221605837&_trksid=p3907.m29

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'm kind of in a position of what the hell to buy.  I want some kind of sports car, American V8, but I'm not real fond of Mustangs or Ford in general.  The Camaro will be out in Feb-March 09 but I don't know if I will be able to afford one.  There is really nothing worth a crap out there as far as a true sports car.   Bill3508 uuuuummmmm hello?!? Corvette? Too small, plus I'm just a lowly UPS truck loader.  I don't break your stuff but I know where it most likely happens. Bill3508

find the asshole that put the muzzle of that springfield armory loaded M1A through the sides of BOTH boxes it was in and kick the ever loving shit out of him for me

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The button moves the seat in the direction that the seat back is in.  If the seat is forward, the button moves the seat forward, same for going back.  Took me a bit to figure that out With the seat back it still doesn't work.   Bill3508

i believe that button only returns the seat back to where it was positioned before the seat was moved forward.  therefore it won't move the seat all the way to the back if it wasn't there before.

doesn't sound like your problem but................

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Only have to drive 1 once to be in love. This was true, after driving it and putting up with its failings for a few months I hated it.   Reminds me of this woman, was ok to hang around, good once you sleep with her, you like her.  After abit all the good things wear off and you see the things you were looking past, always wants money, everything you do is wrong, always bitching.   OMG ROFL THAT is FUNNY!!!!  AND TRUE! Taxman, sorry you had such a bad experience.  Listen, you had a bad car, doesn't mean all GTOs are bad.  Your main problem was with the service you got.   Best thing to do is find a dealer with a good service department and then stick with them over the years. It's not like they get a lot of work from me, but they really treat me good.  So much so, that it effects my decisions as far as buying vehicles.  I tend to stay with GM vehicles mainly because I know I can take it to Holz if I have to and they will take care of me. ETA:  I CAN'T SAY THIS STRONGLY ENOUGH......FIND A GOOD, HONEST SERVICE DEPARTMENT THAT WANTS YOUR BUSINESS, FORM A PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP WITH THEM, AND STICK WITH THEM!

I tried EVERY dealer I could find in a reasonable distance, short of a 2 hour drive to Atlanta.  

My Toyota dealer has given me no problems every dealing with them has been good.  The only downside I have had was that the cops harassed me when I was walking from the dealership to the gun range, I always go shooting while I get the oil changed.

If it was made after 1970 -- maybe even 1971 -- it's got no business being called a GTO.

Update:  There is this Blue roaring beast in the garage.  I'm waiting for it to cool down some so I can wax it and I'll post pics later.  Hopefully it will be a good car.

Bill3508

Quoted: Update:  There is this Blue roaring beast in the garage.  I'm waiting for it to cool down some so I can wax it and I'll post pics later.  Hopefully it will be a good car. Bill3508

congrats...I guess. Even though most of arfcom appears to be rabid against teh gto.

It may be in another garage quicker then you expect.

You got it on Sunday from a dealer?  They are all closed on Sundays here.


I feel I have failed, atleast for awhile.

Quoted: Update:  There is this Blue roaring beast in the garage.  I'm waiting for it to cool down some so I can wax it and I'll post pics later.  Hopefully it will be a good car. Bill3508

congratulations, mine has been great, hope yours will be as well.  but change that shifter!

browse carefully at ls2gto.com though, those guys will have you cammed/sprayed/supercharged/turbocharged in no time if you're not careful

Quoted: If it was made after 1970 -- maybe even 1971 -- it's got no business being called a GTO.

might want to cork your ass, it seems to be sucking wind again

Quoted: Quoted: If it was made after 1970 -- maybe even 1971 -- it's got no business being called a GTO. might want to cork your ass, it seems to be sucking wind again

Man, take a chill pill, will ya?

I have never sen anyone defend a car like you defend this one.

Clue here.............It is a freakin' GM vehicle, comes complete with shoddy GM build quality, poor resale value and half way decent power. In other words, it is just a driver, not something with any kind of collectible value.

It damn sure is not a  bare bone 60's muscle car, just as the new Challenger or the new Camaro isn't. And at least those cars kept the look.

Get over it already. You like yours, fine. But it is not any kind of special vehicle.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Sorry you had a bad experience. Bad understates it, it was a large waste of personal time, money, time off work and a great annoyance.  It was also a lesson. I try to keep this from happening to others, and also damage the company as much as possible. If everyone who got burned by a lemon took it as hard as you do, and were successful in their personal fucking agenda, than nobody would buy any car from any manufacturer.  So you ended up with a monday morning edition.  Sucks, but get the fuck over it.   I will get over it when the company folds, and EVERY one of them is crushed, melted and made into bullets to be shot at the foreign people.  Or I die. Until them its not happening.  I got my vendetta, thats not going away.

Which company? GM, or just the Holden and/or Pontiac divisions?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: If it was made after 1970 -- maybe even 1971 -- it's got no business being called a GTO. might want to cork your ass, it seems to be sucking wind again Man, take a chill pill, will ya? I have never sen anyone defend a car like you defend this one. Clue here.............It is a freakin' GM vehicle, comes complete with shoddy GM build quality, poor resale value and half way decent power. In other words, it is just a driver, not something with any kind of collectible value. It damn sure is not a  bare bone 60's muscle car, just as the new Challenger or the new Camaro isn't. And at least those cars kept the look. Get over it already. You like yours, fine. But it is not any kind of special vehicle.

please point out to me where exactly i said the GTO was "special," would somehow appreciate in value, or that it was some kind of factory built drag car?  

i'm as calm as humanly possible i simply have time to kill and pointing out bullshit for bullshit is one of my favorite hobbies.  

if you put one hand under your asshole and wished reeeeeeeeeeally hard for a GTO with factory on-star in the other hand you'll end up with the same result in either hand.  yet somebody says theres a TSB on the car for that..........or, somebody says that somehow the GTO isn't fit to wear those letters or for that matter neither are the '72-'73 either and gives no reasons whatsoever.  driveby cluelessness that i pointed out yet somehow i am a rabid defender of the car now.

know what i don't like about it?

no rear cupholders, slow moving power seats, unnecessarily heavy, no room for more rubber, gaudy spoiler, small trunk, ugly ass taillights on the '06s, IRS, shit stock shifter, and all electric locks

there, am i somehow holier now?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Sorry you had a bad experience. Bad understates it, it was a large waste of personal time, money, time off work and a great annoyance.  It was also a lesson. I try to keep this from happening to others, and also damage the company as much as possible. If everyone who got burned by a lemon took it as hard as you do, and were successful in their personal fucking agenda, than nobody would buy any car from any manufacturer.  So you ended up with a monday morning edition.  Sucks, but get the fuck over it.   I will get over it when the company folds, and EVERY one of them is crushed, melted and made into bullets to be shot at the foreign people.  Or I die. Until them its not happening.  I got my vendetta, thats not going away. Which company? GM, or just the Holden and/or Pontiac divisions?

Pontiac, GM and the dealers.

I didnt deal with Holden directly so they are disliked less.

Pics of the new to me toy.








Freshly waxed.

Bill3508

Quoted: Pics of the new to me toy. i14.photobucket.com/albums/a325/Bill3508/GTOandSadie018.jpg i14.photobucket.com/albums/a325/Bill3508/GTOandSadie010.jpg i14.photobucket.com/albums/a325/Bill3508/GTOandSadie012.jpg i14.photobucket.com/albums/a325/Bill3508/GTOandSadie013.jpg i14.photobucket.com/albums/a325/Bill3508/GTOandSadie016.jpg Freshly waxed. Bill3508

oh, anyway...........the fuel rail covers and the fuel line rubbing............seen only one that it was deep or severe enough to concern me but it's on your left bank (drivers side) towards the back, you can't miss it.

FWIW all those covers are for is aesthetics, they serve no purpose.  they simply make the engine look "prettier." i pulled mine off and sold em for $80.  if nothing else they were hindering cooling and i don't have much use for parts that aren't functional.

ETA:  pull the rubber plugs out from your front scoops as well, not functional for actual air intake but they do aid in cooling and keeping your IAT temps down. (the computer starts pulling timing at some insane low temperature like 96 degrees.  this is why it will feel slower if you've been sitting in town idling and have your underhood temp around 180 or something)

Oh, that passenger seat button does work.  Not sure why I couldn't get it to work earlier.  Its really slow though.  I would rather have a handle that folded and slid forward quickly like in my Nissan pickup.  

One thing I discovered today once I got it home.  Tires are directional and the left front tire is on backwards.  I'll have them correct that tomorrow.

Bill3508

Quoted: Oh, that passenger seat button does work.  Not sure why I couldn't get it to work earlier.  Its really slow though.  I would rather have a handle that folded and slid forward quickly like in my Nissan pickup.   One thing I discovered today once I got it home.  Tires are directional and the left front tire is on backwards.  I'll have them correct that tomorrow. Bill3508

Was in a Pontiac dealer?  Careful they turn on you quicker then a rabid pitbull with aids.

Quoted: Quoted: Oh, that passenger seat button does work.  Not sure why I couldn't get it to work earlier.  Its really slow though.  I would rather have a handle that folded and slid forward quickly like in my Nissan pickup.   One thing I discovered today once I got it home.  Tires are directional and the left front tire is on backwards.  I'll have them correct that tomorrow. Bill3508 Was in a Pontiac dealer?  Careful they turn on you quicker then a rabid pitbull with aids.

Acura dealer.  

Bill3508

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Oh, that passenger seat button does work.  Not sure why I couldn't get it to work earlier.  Its really slow though.  I would rather have a handle that folded and slid forward quickly like in my Nissan pickup.   One thing I discovered today once I got it home.  Tires are directional and the left front tire is on backwards.  I'll have them correct that tomorrow. Bill3508 Was in a Pontiac dealer?  Careful they turn on you quicker then a rabid pitbull with aids. Acura dealer.   Bill3508

Never had dealings with one, friend did but that was in regards to thier property.

Quoted: If it was made after 1970 -- maybe even 1971 -- it's got no business being called a GTO.

Ill put that  stock LS2 GTO against any other  stock GTO ever made before it

That's a dang sweet car man, congrats.  

The LSx family of engines are awesome and those LS2 powered Goats haul ass.  They're the very definition of what a GTO always was and will stomp a mudhole in any factory stock GTO ever made before it.  

If I for some reason decide against a '09-'10 Camaro in a couple years I may get a low mile GTO too.  (I have a 99 TA to tide me over though).  Eh, maybe I'll get a used C6 Vette...

Quoted: Quoted: If it was made after 1970 -- maybe even 1971 -- it's got no business being called a GTO. Ill put that  stock LS2 GTO against any other  stock GTO ever made before it

That's just plain retarded.

I sure as hell hope that in the last 40 years, vehicle performance has improved. And you know what? A current one is only around 2 seconds quicker in the 1/4 mile. What is that divided by 40?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: If it was made after 1970 -- maybe even 1971 -- it's got no business being called a GTO. Ill put that  stock LS2 GTO against any other  stock GTO ever made before it That's just plain retarded. I sure as hell hope that in the last 40 years, vehicle performance has improved. And you know what? A current one is only around 2 seconds quicker in the 1/4 mile. What is that divided by 40?

Thats stupid.  2 seconds quicker is a lot, obviously you dont mod cars and drag race.

Looks good!  Hopefully you love the car.

If you plan on modding the car, have fun.  Its a blast to see how easily these motors respond to mods.  For tuning, i would go with hptuners, thats what i use, and it works great!

Nice!

Nice Cavalier.



Just kidding. Cool ride, dude.

Amazing car, all the ones I've dealt with have been top notch workmanship.

Fast as a mother fucker.

Quoted: If everyone who got burned by a lemon took it as hard as you do, and were successful in their personal fucking agenda, than nobody would buy any car from any manufacturer.  So you ended up with a monday morning edition.  Sucks, but get the fuck over it.

Ding ding ding!

Quoted: If everyone who got burned by a lemon took it as hard as you do, and were successful in their personal fucking agenda, than nobody would buy any car from any manufacturer.  So you ended up with a monday morning edition.  Sucks, but get the fuck over it.

Best post in this thread.

beautiful  have fun with it and happy modding

Quoted: Quoted: If everyone who got burned by a lemon took it as hard as you do, and were successful in their personal fucking agenda, than nobody would buy any car from any manufacturer.  So you ended up with a monday morning edition.  Sucks, but get the fuck over it.   Ding ding ding!

Hold your breath while you wait for me to get over it,

While your doing that Im going to go get some chickenwings

I sure as hell hope that in the last 40 years, vehicle performance has improved. And you know what? A current one is only around 2 seconds quicker in the 1/4 mile. What is that divided by 40?

ONLY 2 seconds!?!?  LOL, was that a joke?  

Not sure I buy that a good condition older GTO couldn't do any better than a 15 second 1/4 mile with decent driving but ok...

Quoted: Nice Cavalier. Just kidding. Cool ride, dude.

at least it ain't a Ford

Friends don't let friends drive Fords

Quoted: beautiful  have fun with it and happy modding

Modding/repairing  its all in the name

Quoted: I sure as hell hope that in the last 40 years, vehicle performance has improved. And you know what? A current one is only around 2 seconds quicker in the 1/4 mile. What is that divided by 40? ONLY 2 seconds!?!?  LOL, was that a joke?   Not sure I buy that a good condition older GTO couldn't do any better than a 15 second 1/4 mile with decent driving but ok...

tires were the limiting factor..........don't think for a second i wouldn't have gotten a 454 or 496 in this fucker if it was an option

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: If it was made after 1970 -- maybe even 1971 -- it's got no business being called a GTO. Ill put that  stock LS2 GTO against any other  stock GTO ever made before it That's just plain retarded. I sure as hell hope that in the last 40 years, vehicle performance has improved. And you know what? A current one is only around 2 seconds quicker in the 1/4 mile. What is that divided by 40? Thats stupid.  2 seconds quicker is a lot, obviously you dont mod cars and drag race.

2 seconds is huge

you realize that is about the difference between say a Taurus and a Mustang GT

good tire might knock 1 sec off a older cars time
net HP ratings from the 60s and 70s were pie in the sky marketing bullshit

I bet a 389 Tri Power GTO does not put down more than 260 HP REAL  to the rear wheels

225-240 is probably more realistic

that LS2 should do over 300 easy

I love old cars but they were not what the legends made them to be espesically compared to current stuff

Quoted: That's a dang sweet car man, congrats.   The LSx family of engines are awesome and those LS2 powered Goats haul ass.  They're the very definition of what a GTO always was and will stomp a mudhole in any factory stock GTO ever made before it.   If I for some reason decide against a '09-'10 Camaro in a couple years I may get a low mile GTO too.  (I have a 99 TA to tide me over though).  Eh, maybe I'll get a used C6 Vette...

I was wanting the Camaro, but figured I could save some cash and still have a nice car.  I may upgrade when the big dog Camaro comes out if I can afford it.

Bill3508

I hope that you enjoy that car every second that you own it. And I hope that you own it every second that you want too, and not a second less.

Great car.......affordable and fast from the factory and as a bonus it's comfortable to ride in.  Congrats!  

And, yes, 2 seconds is an ass kicking in drag race terms, especially when you consider that the new GTO is heavily laden with all sorts of safety equipment required by the .gov as well as creature comforts that the original GTO's didn't.  People take these old vs new comparisons way too far.  It's basically apples and oranges IMHO.

Enjoy the car.............I'm still holding out hope for a new Z28 or SS Camaro or whatever they end up calling the basic V8.  Probably won't spend the money for the ultimate top model but we'll see.

Quoted: 2 seconds is huge you realize that is about the difference between say a Taurus and a Mustang GT good tire might knock 1 sec off a older cars time net HP ratings from the 60s and 70s were pie in the sky marketing bullshit I bet a 389 Tri Power GTO does not put down more than 260 HP REAL  to the rear wheels 225-240 is probably more realistic that LS2 should do over 300 easy I love old cars but they were not what the legends made them to be espesically compared to current stuff

Don't forget that those old school cars are heavy as shit, and the suspensions really are not capable of putting down serious power to the pavement, even if such power is available.  Even given identical HP and sticky modern tires, an old school GTO can't hang anywhere near a new GTO.  Old school GTO's are classic, beautiful machines, but they can't compare one bit to the new ones.  

Enjoy the ride, it's a blast, but BE CAREFUL!  Don't be another one of those jackasses who wrecks their GTO because they were fucking around.  If for no other reason than it makes my insurance rates go up even higher!

For mods, here's what I reccomend (in order)

1. Window tint (if you can call that a mod), and throw a clear bra on there if able)
2.  Skip shift eliminator
3.  GMM Ripshifter (with Lou's Short Stick)
4.  Lingenfelter Performance Engineering Intake
5.  Exhaust (at least muffler replacement)
6.  Pedders Track II suspension kit

That should put you pretty deep in the hole!  Have fun with your new money pit!