[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Pistol brace rule signed (VACATED 6/13/24) (Page 16 of 160)
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Quoted: Hopefully? They said to document the application so provided you do that and keep it on hand, federally I don't see the issue. For me though, SBRs are apparently illegal in my state unless they're registered with the federal government, so would I chance showing one off to a state trooper without the actual stamp in hand? Probably not. Think about manufacturers like PSA. They're about to be left holding the bag of a bunch of worthless shit. It wouldn't surprise me if this caused bankruptcies.  Quoted: Quoted: If that's the case, is there anything stopping us from legally removing a brace and replacing with a stock during the 120 day "amnesty" period? Quoted: So just like that, they put all the brace makers out of business.. A class action lawsuit against the govt would be a nice thumb in the eye |
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Quoted: Oh, I abso-fucking-lutely believe they do. This just gives "them" another avenue to confiscate weapons that were perfectly legal, yesterday. Quoted: Quoted: You honestly believe they don't already have a registry of every 4473 you've ever filled out? Oh, I abso-fucking-lutely believe they do. This just gives "them" another avenue to confiscate weapons that were perfectly legal, yesterday. The ignorance in this thread has now reached epic levels.....and I skipped ahead and only read two pages. |
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Quoted: Thank you this was my question I was going to ask. This entire BS is just a scheme to create gun laws they do not have the authority to do and turn innocent people into criminals. None of this makes absolutely no sense. This is all BS and over steps the authority of the atfe. With the swipe of a pen to automatically create millions of felons on something that's been legal for years. They are writing gun laws and by passing the congress. Fuck them and their unconstitutional BS. I'm glad I live in Florida because a lot of officer and county sheriff's will not abide by this. This is just like bump stock and triggers. The atfe basically writing law and calling them machine-guns The federal government is not just trying to turn innocent Americans into criminals. They are creating an enemy of the people that will bite them in their ass. They are trying to regulate the Bill of Rights out of existence weather it be not just the 1st but the 2nd, 4th, 5th ect.... and that's not how it's suppose to work. You cannot regulate protected rights. There is a process for that if America wants to change the BORs and this is not one of them. These dumb asses better be careful because America is at a point in time of being very volatile towards a government that no longer operates for the people. Instead they work to strip away protected rights by unconstitutional regulations not laws to gain power. The moment this Democratic Socialists extremist party siezed power the entire nation has gone to shit. Gas, food, medications, baby food everything has been reduced or just plain disappeared because of the direct actions of this Socialist threat. But they fear an armed America because they know they are just mere steps from being held accountable by the American people. Our government is not absolute. The American people are because the very first line of out founding papers this party of treason called the Democratic Socialists Party want to trash and used for toilet paper says WE THE PEOPLE not we the government. ... this Democratic Socialists Party is a domestic terrorist group that is a danger to the very existence of America Quoted: On the plus side just think of all the weapons we give every terrorist group and nazi govt around the world This is where the world and our government is at people. We are reaching the end game. I pray for wisdom and courage for us all. If you haven't found forgiveness from your sins and eternal life in the resurrected Christ then please make that priority #1. |
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That dude needs to lay off the soy. He has bitch tits. |
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10. ONCE THE FIREARM IS REGISTERED AS A SHORT-BARRELED RIFLE (SBR) CAN I REMOVE/CHANGE THE “STABILIZING BRACE” OR ATTACH AN ITEM MARKETED AS A STOCK? IF SO, AM I REQUIRED TO NOTIFY ATF IN ADVANCE? • Yes, the firearm is registered as an SBR, and you can change out the “brace” device or stock for a different brace or stock. You do not need to contact ATF/NFA because changing the brace/stock does not change the configuration of the SBR. However, if the length of the firearm has changed you will need to notify the NFA Division. #10 Page 4 - https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/docs/undefined/faqfinalrule2021r-08f-correctedpdf/download That is the one thing that caught my attention. Them retro SBR's I been building but refused to pay $200 so I slapped an incorrect, improper pistol brace on to avoid ... NOW they can be the real thing for FREE and completely legal! But my AR pistols with a pistol brace is still just that. ATF said they were legal when I built them and that's the way they staying. |
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Quoted: So they know due to the bumpstock ruling and ADA that this will be struck down. That’s why they eliminated the worksheet. The challenge will take at least 120 days. So they’ll get as many on record with a form 1 as is possible before the ruling. Look over here, a shiny stamp!!!! Or they'll win, deny your application, and then confiscate the gun you applied for. |
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Quoted: Yfw Sig, being the forward thinking proactive industry leaders that they are, ceased shipping illegal “braces” with their firearms months ago. Allowing them to divest from immovable inventory and streamline their product offerings, ensuring they would see continuous un-interrupted deliveries despite the disruptive regulatory fiasco affecting all other manufacturers presently. Simultaneously, they have protected their pistol purchasing customers from potential inadvertent violations of federal law. As such I would just like to take this moment once again to appreciate Sig Sauer USA and their steadfast commitment to both consumers and shooters alike. Their innovative approach has no equal and they truly never settle. Na, they probably just stopped because they were afraid someone might drop one and have it go off.  |
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Bear in mind there may be a difference between registering a preconfigured AR pistol with a brace attached (really a SBR in ATF's mind) and a pistol you assembled at home and attached a brace to. By registering that pistol you are admitting to assembling the SBR o your own. A possible legal distinction. |
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Quoted: If you don't get it now, you absolutely never will. But someone buying an MP5 (funko pop range toy) is already a red flag that guns are just toys to you. It can't possibly be a larger red flag than being a try-hard dumbass who fell off the short bus and landed on their head. |
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Quoted: Bear in mind there may be a difference between registering a preco nfigured AR pistol with a brace attached (really a SBR) and a pistol you assembled at home and attached a brace to. By registering that pistol you are admitting to assembling the SBR o your own. A possible legal distinction. Nope, assembled a pistol and are now registering it as an SBR. |
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Quoted: One minor thing I don't think anyone has mentioned... But IIRC you need to notify the ATF when taking an SBR across state lines. It get's annoying when driving to shooting competitions or hunting, or fuck any time you want to travel. Is it the lower ? Can you disassemble and transport it apart? |
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Quoted: And here's the thing, the way the rule change is written, the brace is pretty much a stock at this point. So they take 4 years to approve my form 1, you can believe I will have a stock on it before then, bc the ATF said a brace is the same thing if I intend to shoulder it. Not my fault they're disfunctional behind the times retards delaying and infringing my rights. which now gets back to the whole, amnesty, if it's a stock and they are pretty much saying all pistols are SBR's at this point, what difference does it make whether it is braced or just a buffer tube, bc the intent and according to the AFT, make it an SBR by default and therefore this amnesty covers all that, not just braces. That is what it seems to me. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: They didnt mention photographs required. Technically the amnesty $0 registry requires you to ALREADY HAVE THE BRACE ON THE GUN as of the date it is published in the federal registrar (likely Tuesday). That was the genesis of my post which was quoted earlier. How does the ATF know, or not, that the pistol in question has a brace on it at all? It appears that they could/can ask for photographic proof that you have a brace on it, but will they? That's the question my friend is after. which now gets back to the whole, amnesty, if it's a stock and they are pretty much saying all pistols are SBR's at this point, what difference does it make whether it is braced or just a buffer tube, bc the intent and according to the AFT, make it an SBR by default and therefore this amnesty covers all that, not just braces. That is what it seems to me. Not disagreeing, but the specific example I brought up was a non-AR pistol (think Bren 2, APC223, etc.). In those cases it's just an end cap. No buffer tube, etc. I'm of the mind that he might as well register it and see if it goes through. At worst they say no, register it as a SBR and pay $200, which he would have anyway. |
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Quoted: Nope, assembled a pistol and are now registering it as an SBR. A brace doesn't make it a pistol. Lack of a stock with a barrel shorter than 16" does. If you put a brace on that pistol, you made a illegal SBR and are admitting it to the ATF. Now according to the ATF. just registering any pistol and not claiming it was braced is just regular form 1'ing a pistol. |
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Quoted: Is it the lower ? Can you disassemble and transport it apart? No because you would still have the makings of a SBR regardless if it’s together or not. Plus, you would have to reassemble it at some point to use it and you wouldn’t have your permission slip if for some reason they checked for it. Please correct me if I’m wrong. |
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Quoted: One minor thing I don't think anyone has mentioned... But IIRC you need to notify the ATF when taking an SBR across state lines. It get's annoying when driving to shooting competitions or hunting, or fuck any time you want to travel. |
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Quoted: Not disagreeing, but the specific example I brought up was a non-AR pistol (think Bren 2, APC223, etc.). In those cases it's just an end cap. No buffer tube, etc. I'm of the mind that he might as well register it and see if it goes through. At worst they say no, register it as a SBR and pay $200, which he would have anyway. |
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Quoted: No because you would still have the makings of a SBR regardless if it’s together or not. Plus, you would have to reassemble it at some point to use it and you wouldn’t have your permission slip if for some reason they checked for it. Please correct me if I’m wrong. Thats essentially correct. But you can leave the short upper at home and slap on a 16" for travelling, no paperwork required. |
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A stabilizing brace is an attachment to a pistol that functionally turns it into a short-barreled rifle, similar to a sawed-off shotgun. Such weapons are considered particularly deadly as they offer the power of a traditional rifle, but are much easier to conceal. For decades, short-barreled rifles have been subject to strict regulations, including a law known as the National Rifle Act, which requires additional taxation and background checks for private transfers, among other provisions. The above from an article on the internet. |
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Quoted: The ignorance in this thread has now reached epic levels.....and I skipped ahead and only read two pages. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: You honestly believe they don't already have a registry of every 4473 you've ever filled out? Oh, I abso-fucking-lutely believe they do. This just gives "them" another avenue to confiscate weapons that were perfectly legal, yesterday. The ignorance in this thread has now reached epic levels.....and I skipped ahead and only read two pages. The tin foil hats run thick in GD |
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Quoted: Nope, assembled a pistol and are now registering it as an SBR. Quoted: Quoted: Bear in mind there may be a difference between registering a preco nfigured AR pistol with a brace attached (really a SBR) and a pistol you assembled at home and attached a brace to. By registering that pistol you are admitting to assembling the SBR o your own. A possible legal distinction. Nope, assembled a pistol and are now registering it as an SBR. So you trust the gov? |
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Quoted: Sure is a lot of low post counts in this thread trying to stir the pot. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/397309/2AfPQLWwcMrUt3iSKmJ3d8bJ7og_9JX2kwLPU6-x-2236928.png I actually joined way back in early 2000's. Took a break and forgot my u/p |
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Curiosity. 4 schools of thoughts posted here: 1) Free SBR stamp no strings. 2) Admit that you committed a felony and get "free" SBR stamp. 3) FATF. 4) Hold as you are, until it all shakes out. Am I missing something? Edit: Should I neckbeard braces while the market is cold?
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Quoted: Bear in mind there may be a difference between registering a preconfigured AR pistol with a brace attached (really a SBR in ATF's mind) and a pistol you assembled at home and attached a brace to. By registering that pistol you are admitting to assembling the SBR o your own. A possible legal distinction. According to atf we did in fact illegally assemble an sbr. But they're taking responsibility for not regulating us correctly so we're not legally responsible. We get a chance to either undo it or register it now. They even mention that there 'should' be a retroactive 200 tax but they choose to forgive it. |
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Quoted: Curiosity. 4 schools of thoughts posted here: 1) Free SBR stamp no strings. 2) Admit that you committed a felony and get "free" SBR stamp. 3) FATF. 4) Hold as you are, until it all shakes out. Am I missing something? Edit: Should I neckbeard braces while the market is cold? pretty much spot on. Seeing as I just started a trust for silencer, I may (I said may dammit) submit a couple more for brace/sbr. We have 90-120 days to see how this all shakes out, the SCOTUS may slap batfe's pee pee by then. Or the "republican" congress might step in. |
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Quoted: 40 million braces and if braces make a pistol an sbr, then 40 million is in common use, time to do away with the NFA. May this bullshit ruling boomerang hard on the ATF. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: We can have an injunction next week if 40 million people are about to be made felons. ATF Pg 209-210 Department Response The Department disagrees with the assertions that this rule is intended to or will make felons of law-abiding citizens. This rule does not itself impose any new restrictions; instead, this rule articulates the best interpretation of the relevant statutory terms. Nothing in this rule changes those underlying statutory requirements. Nor does this rule affect “stabilizing brace” devices alone. Further, the Department disagrees with the comment that three million law-abiding citizens will be subject to harsh fines and forfeiture of firearms. Commenters with these objections failed to recognize that nothing in the rule or the relevant statutes prevents an individual from continuing to possess or use a “stabilizing brace” on heavy pistols or rifles. This rule only serves to clarify that certain weapons equipped with “stabilizing braces” are short-barreled rifles regulated under the NFA, thus requiring registration, transfer and making approval, and the payment of a making or transfer tax. Furthermore, this rule also provides options for individuals who are in possession of a firearm equipped with a “stabilizing brace” that is an unregistered short-barreled rifle, as that statutory term is properly understood. The options for current unlicensed possessors include the removal and replacement of the offending feature (the barrel less than 16 inches); submission of an ATF E-Form 1 by [INSERT DATE 120 DAYS AFTER DATE OF PUBLICATION IN THE FEDERAL REGISTER], to register the firearm as a short-barreled rifle; removal of the “stabilizing brace” so that it cannot be reattached to the firearm; turning the firearm into a local ATF office; or destroying the firearm. For a detailed discussion of the options available for individuals to comply with the statute, see section V.B of this preamble. In an exercise of the Department’s enforcement discretion, it has determined that any criminal liability for failure to take the necessary action to comply with Federal law for weapons that have already been made will result only for conduct occurring after the time period to register ends. Additionally, in lieu of criminal prosecution, the Department may, for conduct occurring after the 120-day period, pursue forfeiture of the firearm pursuant to 26 U.S.C. 5872. The Department also disagrees this rule needlessly harms citizens by risking exposure of PII. The NFA requires that the registry of NFA firearms in the NFRTR include the identification of the firearm, date of registration, and identification and address of person entitled to possession of the firearm. See 26 U.S.C. 5841. The information in the NFRTR is confidential, and ATF officers or employees and other persons are prohibited by law from disclosing confidential NFA tax information. 40 million braces and if braces make a pistol an sbr, then 40 million is in common use, time to do away with the NFA. May this bullshit ruling boomerang hard on the ATF. Rule says only 1.4M braced pistols out there. What a bunch of BS. |
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Quoted: pretty much spot on. Seeing as I just started a trust for silencer, I may (I said may dammit) submit a couple more for brace/sbr. We have 90-120 days to see how this all shakes out, the SCOTUS may slap batfe's pee pee by then. Or the "republican" congress might step in. Quoted: Quoted: Curiosity. 4 schools of thoughts posted here: 1) Free SBR stamp no strings. 2) Admit that you committed a felony and get "free" SBR stamp. 3) FATF. 4) Hold as you are, until it all shakes out. Am I missing something? Edit: Should I neckbeard braces while the market is cold? pretty much spot on. Seeing as I just started a trust for silencer, I may (I said may dammit) submit a couple more for brace/sbr. We have 90-120 days to see how this all shakes out, the SCOTUS may slap batfe's pee pee by then. Or the "republican" congress might step in. Firearms need to be in the trust prior to publication. |
