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Posted: 8/25/2014 3:33:49 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As you enter Kelley Hill on Ft Benning there is a sign. The other day it read : "Days since last training death: 7" "Days since last training accident: 0" (I'm fairly certain I remember the order of these correctly. I was driving and on the phone, wireless of course. I remember thinking "oh shit" when I read it.) Yep. Seen that one myself. |
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Posted: 8/25/2014 3:38:34 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pretty sure I was there for this one, If not it also happend while I was there. It was in 95' after the finex at a CAX. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Tracker out at 29 Palms doing head space on the M2 with a loaded gun and twisting the barrel for the guy in the UGWS had the idiot in the turret depress the trigger. Went through his vest, through him, and through the back of the vest pretty easily. Then there are the guys who drowned from using the throttle instead of the pedal - Oki, I think - maybe late 90s. ETA: Then there's that LCpl road guard who was left to direct traffic in 29 Palms and forgotten for 3 days while he died of dehydration - and is now used as an example for what not to do in the desert. And for command to get positive accountability of all their men rather than go on a 96 with a LCpl forgotten in the wasteland. Pretty sure I was there for this one, If not it also happend while I was there. It was in 95' after the finex at a CAX. That was still being talked about a lot when I got there in 1997. We had many deaths at that base in the 3 years I was there. |
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Posted: 8/25/2014 3:38:42 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I was a radio guy in the AF so I'd listen to the net when on the road for whatever reason. We would do firearms training on some army base in southern Ga. The crush and fall injuries, including out of helicopters requiring medical assistance was crazy. Lots of heavy metal hauling ass through and above those woods. Ft Stewart? |
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Posted: 8/25/2014 3:40:05 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
But let's not forget the most important thing out there at 29 Palms: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f4/Gopherus_agassizii.jpg/220px-Gopherus_agassizii.jpg I remember hearing in 2002 that there was some unit - can't remember who, so I'll just blame 1/7, that went out and painted/carved their unit info into a turtle's shell. Tortoise didn't die, but when the BLM/EPA/USFS/USFWS govt bunnyhugger found it, they knew damn well who did it. Plus since those tortoises live like 70 years (unless you scare them and they piss themselves and die of dehydration) there's still some tortoise wandering around with "Gunny Asshole Sucks Dicks" and a unit number painted or carved into his shell. Hell, there's probably one crawling around with "2nd Lt. Puller Is A Fag" on his shell. YAT YAS Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Tracker out at 29 Palms doing head space on the M2 with a loaded gun and twisting the barrel for the guy in the UGWS had the idiot in the turret depress the trigger. Went through his vest, through him, and through the back of the vest pretty easily. Then there are the guys who drowned from using the throttle instead of the pedal - Oki, I think - maybe late 90s. ETA: Then there's that LCpl road guard who was left to direct traffic in 29 Palms and forgotten for 3 days while he died of dehydration - and is now used as an example for what not to do in the desert. And for command to get positive accountability of all their men rather than go on a 96 with a LCpl forgotten in the wasteland. That's entirely true. I went and did training out in 29 palms towards the beginning of the year and that was in our RSO/OIC training briefs. There are actually a lot of incidents like the ones mentioned. Being a tracker I hear them all the time, and also witness them. But let's not forget the most important thing out there at 29 Palms: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f4/Gopherus_agassizii.jpg/220px-Gopherus_agassizii.jpg I remember hearing in 2002 that there was some unit - can't remember who, so I'll just blame 1/7, that went out and painted/carved their unit info into a turtle's shell. Tortoise didn't die, but when the BLM/EPA/USFS/USFWS govt bunnyhugger found it, they knew damn well who did it. Plus since those tortoises live like 70 years (unless you scare them and they piss themselves and die of dehydration) there's still some tortoise wandering around with "Gunny Asshole Sucks Dicks" and a unit number painted or carved into his shell. Hell, there's probably one crawling around with "2nd Lt. Puller Is A Fag" on his shell. YAT YAS  Those things are worth more to the range personnel than we are out there.
I came dangerously close to smokin two of them, I was flying down a dried runoff on the side of a mountain going upwards of 60mph in my track when two showed up out of nowhere and thankfully I turned in time to miss 'em. Everyone on that vic about shit themselves when I turned, and when we thought we hit them. Thankfully no Marine, or tortoise was injured otherwise that would have been my carrier.. |
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Posted: 8/25/2014 3:40:10 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In Tom Kratman's "A Desert Called Peace" series soldiers in the fictional army receive purple hearts for injuries sustained in training. The logic is that training injuries are worthy of just as much honor as an injury sustained in combat, because training is vital for success in combat. I can't say that I disagree. Not sure that's such a good idea. There are enough people who write themselves up for bullshit little commendations, or in the past people who've written themselves up for big bullshit commendations (think the 3 PH's needed to escape Vietnam that some politicians used), that I could see that making for a lot of potential abuse by shitbirds. While Napoleon said that he could conquer Europe with a handful of colored ribbons, and I'm sure such a thing would be popular in some circles, I'd rather see the VA stop putting peacetime and wartime vets on death lists. That'd be a better start. The grunt who ran his knees out for manuevers and PT or the arty bubba who fucked up his back carrying shells or the tracker who busted his shins all to hell on the port lateral drive shaft cover in peacetime could probably benefit from being taken care of in the manner they were promised first, rather than being given an "occupational injury medal". |
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Posted: 8/25/2014 3:41:04 PM EDT
[#6]
Last year I think it was seven Marines that died in a training accident with a mortar across the road from my house.
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Posted: 8/25/2014 3:43:08 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
- I came dangerously close to smokin two of them, I was flying down a dried runoff on the side of a mountain going upwards of 60mph in my track when two showed up out of nowhere and thankfully I turned in time to miss 'em. Everyone on that vic about shit themselves when I turned, and when we thought we hit them. Thankfully no Marine, or tortoise was injured otherwise that would have been my carrier.. RAMmer, I take it? I only ever got a straight leg up to maybe 30-40 flat out. I heard of guys getting them up to 60-65 in Kuwait when they were fully unloaded before the invasion in 2003. Most I ever got a RAM/RS up to was maybe 55, but usually was full with gear, ammo, sometimes personnel, and usually had EAAK. |
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Posted: 8/25/2014 3:45:01 PM EDT
[#8]
The sea don't care; it's always waiting to kill you.
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Posted: 8/25/2014 3:48:02 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
 seriously?Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Lost more guys in the motor pool in one year in garrison than we did in Bosnia, and we lost guys in Bosnia. seriously?yep. A mech motor pool is no place for the faint hearted. Rig a tank for a tow bar sometime. I can only imagine what a flight deck is like. |
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Posted: 8/25/2014 3:49:44 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The sea don't care; it's always waiting to kill you. 
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Posted: 8/25/2014 3:50:23 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryRAMmer, I take it? I only ever got a straight leg up to maybe 30-40 flat out. I heard of guys getting them up to 60-65 in Kuwait when they were fully unloaded before the invasion in 2003. Most I ever got a RAM/RS up to was maybe 55, but usually was full with gear, ammo, sometimes personnel, and usually had EAAK. Yup. Flat round I've gotten it up to 55, with maybe half a squad of grunts and some ammo. But I was going at a pretty good decline down that mountain so it picked up pretty easy. |
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Posted: 8/25/2014 3:52:03 PM EDT
[#12]
I spent 6 months at Balboa Naval Hospital (the old hospital) in the Marine Liaison Office while getting my digits sewn back on. There you would be given duties around the hospital to occupy your time while going to PT and the like. When we were on duty we had to go to the admissions office to log in new arrivals. I don't remember to many days where there wasn't someone coming in from something fucked up.
Lots of training accidents from Pendleton and 29 palms. I also lived on a ward/barracks that had very few empty bunks. The 4th floor orthodox ward was usually full as well. I can tell you that was one busy hospital. |
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Posted: 8/25/2014 4:00:00 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
yep. A mech motor pool is no place for the faint hearted. Rig a tank for a tow bar sometime. I can only imagine what a flight deck is like. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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Lost more guys in the motor pool in one year in garrison than we did in Bosnia, and we lost guys in Bosnia. seriously?yep. A mech motor pool is no place for the faint hearted. Rig a tank for a tow bar sometime. I can only imagine what a flight deck is like. The motor pool is always a dangerous place. As a Trans PL, not using a ground guide, or ground guiding from the wrong place (being in a position to get pinned between 2 vehicles) was about the only thing that got me worked up. |
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Posted: 8/25/2014 4:05:14 PM EDT
[#14]
I remember Gallant Eagle in 1982 which is a 82nd mass tac.....the Division jumps. IIRC, 3 or 4 guys were killed on the jump in CA. When they interviewed the Division CDR he stated that he felt pretty good because statistically more soldiers should have died.
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Posted: 8/25/2014 4:05:21 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: yep. A mech motor pool is no place for the faint hearted. Rig a tank for a tow bar sometime. I can only imagine what a flight deck is like. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Lost more guys in the motor pool in one year in garrison than we did in Bosnia, and we lost guys in Bosnia. seriously?yep. A mech motor pool is no place for the faint hearted. Rig a tank for a tow bar sometime. I can only imagine what a flight deck is like. in the M1 just doing services on them. |
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Posted: 8/25/2014 4:08:37 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The motor pool is always a dangerous place. As a Trans PL, not using a ground guide, or ground guiding from the wrong place (being in a position to get pinned between 2 vehicles) was about the only thing that got me worked up. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
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Lost more guys in the motor pool in one year in garrison than we did in Bosnia, and we lost guys in Bosnia. seriously?yep. A mech motor pool is no place for the faint hearted. Rig a tank for a tow bar sometime. I can only imagine what a flight deck is like. The motor pool is always a dangerous place. As a Trans PL, not using a ground guide, or ground guiding from the wrong place (being in a position to get pinned between 2 vehicles) was about the only thing that got me worked up. meh, just ground guide like I do. Tell the driver to back it up and not hit anything. Yell when he gets close to something. |
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Posted: 8/25/2014 4:08:46 PM EDT
[#17]
My team got fired up by a ROK M48 on Nightmare Range in Korea. We had the range, but they just pulled up and started firing while we were blowing up duds downrange. We almost got strafed by some A-10's on the same range, but luckily they noticed us before they started their runs.
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Posted: 8/25/2014 4:11:26 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
At FTCKY we used to have accidents all the time. we got a 3 day weekend if we went 101 days without an auto fatality . It only happened once in my 19+ months . Helos were dropping out of the skies like flies 92-98....We lost some dudes when two 5 tons rammed into each other....lost guys all the time in training..then the injuries.. |
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Posted: 8/25/2014 4:22:09 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: yep. A mech motor pool is no place for the faint hearted. Rig a tank for a tow bar sometime. I can only imagine what a flight deck is like. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Lost more guys in the motor pool in one year in garrison than we did in Bosnia, and we lost guys in Bosnia. seriously?yep. A mech motor pool is no place for the faint hearted. Rig a tank for a tow bar sometime. I can only imagine what a flight deck is like. |
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Posted: 8/25/2014 4:24:06 PM EDT
[#20]
IME leave before and after deployment is more dangerous than deployment.
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Posted: 8/25/2014 4:28:50 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: IME leave before and after deployment is more dangerous than deployment. My task force had a combat engineer get killed on mid tour leave. He was first on the scene for a really bad car wreck go out to render aid. Unknown to him one of the cars had struck a pole with a live line, the wire was on the ground and he was electrocuted. |
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Posted: 8/25/2014 4:35:07 PM EDT
[#22]
Holy shit. Mah kid graduates from MCRD on the 5th.
Reading this thread wasn't a good idea.
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Posted: 8/25/2014 4:39:20 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Helos were dropping out of the skies like flies 92-98....We lost some dudes when two 5 tons rammed into each other....lost guys all the time in training..then the injuries.. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: At FTCKY we used to have accidents all the time. we got a 3 day weekend if we went 101 days without an auto fatality . It only happened once in my 19+ months . Helos were dropping out of the skies like flies 92-98....We lost some dudes when two 5 tons rammed into each other....lost guys all the time in training..then the injuries.. |
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Posted: 8/25/2014 4:41:04 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Holy shit. Mah kid graduates from MCRD on the 5th. Reading this thread wasn't a good idea.
Discourage him from doing stupid shit like, Dad we got a 72-hour weekend comming up so I'm going to drive home from Pendelton, hang out with my friends then drive back. |
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Posted: 8/25/2014 4:43:38 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ft. Hood sounds like it was a dangerous place, OP. I had a friend who was stationed there in the mid-'80s as a Cav Scout. His platoon of Bradley's wound up getting engaged with live machine gun fire for some reason. I don't remember exactly. He said it gave him confidence in his equipment because they didn't penetrate the armor. He had pictures of .30 cal bullets lodged in the frontal armor and a crack in his (driver's) periscope. When I was at Ft. Carson, as an MP, I took an accident report for an Infantry platoon that got lost and drove out of the maneuver area and into an impact area. The LT in charge ordered his M113 right over a 20' cliff. His driver received a flailed chest from the hatch coaming, he received an orbital skull fracture. There were multiple minor injuries for the guys in the passenger compartment. The driver of the track behind them saw the first M113 just disappear from his night-vision. He stopped his vehicle and went forward on foot to see what happened. He walked right off the same cliff and landed on the back of the other track. Broke both legs, one arm and a spinal fracture. that was one of my big fears; when I was in the guard i drove an M106A2 mortar carrier (an M113 for mortars) and we frequently trained at a quarry property out of town. Lots of 200 foot drop offs along the roads. NV training was a puckering experience there. If you went off one of those drop offs there would be no one living. ETA- Since my 2nd post never made it. As another guy mentioned the armored vehicle hatches could bite. We had drawn spare vehicles from UTES on Ft. Drum. One M106A2 carrier had the hatch spring wound up super strong, it's clang shut like a mousetrap. Add in a worn out safety pin that would walk out. Leaving range 44 the hatch did just that and smacked the driver down in his hole like whack a mole. He got medevaced out. I almost got dumped out of a UH1 with an open door. they had us get in with our packs on, I'm jammed into a forward lean and can't get my seat belt done right, we take off and fly a distance and the VN era pilot yanks and banks over a swamp and I get launched forward out the portside door. Fortunately I was right be hind the ship's M60D and ended up on top of it hanging onto that for dear life Before I was in the unit, my guard unit had a Sgt. killed rodding M2's after a night fire. There was a round left in the T slot and the rod going in let the bolt go and fired the gun. Rod and all went right through the Sgt. Hell, I almost got run over in boot camp. We were in our shelter half hooches in line, my tent was the end tent. During the night a couple/few??? Amtracs drove right through our area, I was struggling to get up as they sounded like they were coming right for us. gone by the time I got my ass out of the tent. I go back to bed as sleep is dear in boot. In the am, while striking tents i see that the track marks were less than 3 feet from my hooch. 
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Posted: 8/25/2014 4:43:38 PM EDT
[#26]
Bad shit happens.
I've know one guy personally that died during peacetime. RIP Doc Pringle. |
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Posted: 8/25/2014 4:44:09 PM EDT
[#27]
Tank/Bradley motorpools are hazardous places. Also had 1 guy die from a pre-existing heart condition after he decided to go on a red-bull-only diet at NTC. Knew a guy who lost 2 fingers in a Paladin breech
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Posted: 8/25/2014 4:44:47 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Tracker out at 29 Palms doing head space on the M2 with a loaded gun and twisting the barrel for the guy in the UGWS had the idiot in the turret depress the trigger. Went through his vest, through him, and through the back of the vest pretty easily. Then there are the guys who drowned from using the throttle instead of the pedal - Oki, I think - maybe late 90s. ETA: Then there's that LCpl road guard who was left to direct traffic in 29 Palms and forgotten for 3 days while he died of dehydration - and is now used as an example for what not to do in the desert. And for command to get positive accountability of all their men rather than go on a 96 with a LCpl forgotten in the wasteland. Not a death but when I was at 29 Palms an NCO went up on a 'trac to deal with a hang-fire on a MK19. Thing went off and hit him in the arm. Didn't detonate, obviously, but nearly severed his arm. Same CAX a generator tech was electrocuted. He survived as well. |
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Posted: 8/25/2014 4:48:21 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
- Not a death but when I was at 29 Palms an NCO went up on a 'trac to deal with a hang-fire on a MK19. Thing went off and hit him in the arm. Didn't detonate, obviously, but nearly severed his arm. Same CAX a generator tech was electrocuted. He survived as well. We had a Mk19 squib and/or misfire some 3 times in one day at one of the smaller ranges just north of Camp Wilson. Had to have EOD come out and push rounds out of the barrel while the range went on standby. No injury, but had the guy firing not felt the squib, it would've been a major injury situation. |
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Posted: 8/25/2014 5:04:28 PM EDT
[#30]
I've been doing the military (mostly reserve) and LE thing a long time.
2 killed when a mortar put HE rounds in the wrong place. 1 run over by an AAV at night 1 when a truck flipped 14 in a CH-46 crash A guy I knew at ITS (the old SOI) among those killed in a CH-53 crash 1 (not my unit, but worked with him in Iraq) in a jump I witnessed an Osprey crash that killed 7 6 in combat (4 in 2 different IED blasts, 2 by SAF) In my civilian job (cop) my department has had 2 killed in crashes, one shot and killed, 4 from on-duty heart attacks. 2 military and 3 cops by suicide |
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Posted: 8/25/2014 5:07:46 PM EDT
[#31]
Doesn't even have to be actual active "training" per se. Preps and wrap up kill guys too. I remember several - first one we were loading marine vehicles in port Norfolk. Marine was walking down a vehicle ramp (near the top) and fell off the edge. The "lifeline" was just some 21-thread strung between (full) 55 gal drums of something. Not enough to stop him falling,but enough to pull the barrels off the ramp to meet him at the bottom.
Another was re-embarking Marines after an exercise ashore. Simple thing - walking from the flight deck,down a short ladder,along the Gallery Deck and in a water tight door. It was night. LCPL carrying an M60 - loaded, finger on trigger, safety off - tripped on something and stitched the PFC in front of him. The PFC survived, but the surgical team (MMART) got quite a lot of unplanned work to fix him up before he could be flown off to Naples. |
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Posted: 8/25/2014 5:17:24 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Discourage him from doing stupid shit like, Dad we got a 72-hour weekend comming up so I'm going to drive home from Pendelton, hang out with my friends then drive back. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Holy shit. Mah kid graduates from MCRD on the 5th. Reading this thread wasn't a good idea. Discourage him from doing stupid shit like, Dad we got a 72-hour weekend comming up so I'm going to drive home from Pendelton, hang out with my friends then drive back. This. And pay attention to his training and safety briefings, take safety during training events seriously, and to not get complacent at any of his duties after he's done them for a while. Lot of people in the mil get injured or dead because of a lack of situational awareness and/ or complacency. Having said that, mil service is dangerous and unfortunately sometimes shit just happens. |
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Posted: 8/25/2014 5:32:03 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Talking with my father, aviation seemed like a hazardous business in the 1960s, and they thought they had it easy compared to the 1950s. Read the opening chapters of The Right Stuff. It talks about how dangerous flying was in the 1950's. Something along the average of nearly a quarter of some Naval Aviator class died during peacetime. I was at Fort Hood, too. I got to see a truck carrying artillery shells overturned on one of the roads. Don't know if anybody was hurt. There was another time I was out in the Maneuver area and saw somebody ready to be Medivaced. He was laying in a stretcher covered by camouflage blanket. Everybody was waiting on the chopper. I didn't get to see him evacuated or know what happened to him. From my company the Corporal Williams I'll be talking about come Veterans Day. Flipped a car during a weekend and got paralyzed. While waiting on orders for Jump School I read about my Future Battalion and somebody incorrectly reading the anemometer. Many hurt by jumping into excessively high winds. I get TO Jump School and read about a Trainee in the class ahead of me gets killed in a fight in town. Two different Trainees in different times on the Same Day go Into the 250 foot towers. They were both brought down OK. Got a fantastic set of pictures. Lost the pictures, though. While at Jump School I find the XO of my Basic Training company. I get my wings, He sprains his ankle and doesn't. The week After I get my wings there was a parachute malfunction. Depending upon who you talked to the trainee didn't bother to pull the cord of his reserve either 30 feet or 30 yards before he hit the ground. Vicenza, Italy Some Private driving an M274 Mule onto a flatbed and does *Something*. His skull gets cracked on the pavement. Blood spreads all over where he stuck his head. I have no idea how he made out. I Think he lived. But I don't think he ever had much of a life afterwards. Practice Jump. As I understand it one set of risers separated from the harness of a well liked and respected Platoon Sergeant. He at least got a scar on his chin from the flapping of the buckle striking him on the face. I don't recall any other injuries, but he left Jump Status. Should I add my knees that ache to this very day? |
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Posted: 8/25/2014 5:36:46 PM EDT
[#34]
Events I was either impacted by or involved in the cleanup:
1994 Korea: Bobby Hall shot down in his OH-58 after straying too far North of the DMZ. Co-pilot killed. 1996 Ft Bragg: Flight Surgeon disregards instructions from crew chief to stay off the pad during hot refuel of a UH-60. Bird experiences a power drop and the rotor takes his head off. 1997 Ft Bragg: 82nd Airborne UH-60 with a full load of troops and full external fuel tanks flies too low over the trees and goes down. Everyone vaporized. I'm still haunted by some of what I saw but mostly I painted rocks and picked up pine cones. |
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Posted: 8/25/2014 5:43:27 PM EDT
[#35]
Take aviation back further.
Hap Arnold was one of the 24 original army pilots. 19 were killed in aviation accidents over the next 10 years. |
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Posted: 8/25/2014 5:44:04 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I remember Gallant Eagle in 1982 which is a 82nd mass tac.....the Division jumps. IIRC, 3 or 4 guys were killed on the jump in CA. When they interviewed the Division CDR he stated that he felt pretty good because statistically more soldiers should have died. truth I once figured between 1% and 2% of All Jumpers from any kind of Jump are hurt. It's anything and everything from an "Ouch, but it's nothing" twist or sprain to Call The Medic! |
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Posted: 8/25/2014 5:48:03 PM EDT
[#37]
Basic Training we had a college level track star died on a 3 mile run from a heart defect
Ft Hood 89' one of our Scouts pop-canned a civilian car on West Range Rd and one of our guys got hit in the wrist with a ricochet on a squad live fire. Camp Ripley: one of our guys got hit in the head of his dick by a ricochet while working the target butts. At Ft McCoy our of our guys shot and killed a range safety on the night qual. The company running the range didn't have ground guides to walk the shooters to the 25m "forward" firing position. He was a former Marine and didn't know that was how we shot. So he went to the same place he had fired from earlier in the day. 
What really chaps my ass about this was that I saw multiple safety issues with the way the range was being run that day and went straight to my CO to express my concerns. He basically blew me off. Later that night he could barely look me in the eyes. |
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Posted: 8/25/2014 5:48:27 PM EDT
[#38]
One of my best friends died in a peacetime Huey crash stateside a few years ago.
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Posted: 8/25/2014 5:55:37 PM EDT
[#39]
Every cruise I went on we lost at least one guy.
ETA: I did peace time cruises and war cruises and it didn't really matter. Someone always got killed. The carrier is dangerous all the time. |
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Posted: 8/25/2014 5:56:54 PM EDT
[#40]
Spent my career in Armor... They kill regardless of rank or Uniform...
Lost guys in Roll overs at the NTC.. Guys crushed between vehicles. Guys ran over at night on Maneuvers. Arms and legs caught in unforgiving metal... Hatches coming loose on the move ringing dudes heads... Hang fires, miss fires.. chemical burns, Fire..Knocked out teeth... Soldiering is Dangerous Business... Be careful... |
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Posted: 8/25/2014 5:57:39 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I wasn't going to mention, because then in GD it's a pissing contest with other professions. Yeah, we've all seen some pretty bad ones I'm sure. Saw a guy get his foot crushed because he was stupid around a 900lb ramp, for starters. Also saw choice eye injury before eyepro became standard issue. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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At FTCKY we used to have accidents all the time. we got a 3 day weekend if we went 101 days without an auto fatality . It only happened once in my 19+ months . Helos were dropping out of the skies like flies 92-98....We lost some dudes when two 5 tons rammed into each other....lost guys all the time in training..then the injuries.. Had a guy just last year get his foot crushed in a BFV ramp. |
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Posted: 8/25/2014 5:58:20 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
truth I once figured between 1% and 2% of All Jumpers from any kind of Jump are hurt. It's anything and everything from an "Ouch, but it's nothing" twist or sprain to Call The Medic! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I remember Gallant Eagle in 1982 which is a 82nd mass tac.....the Division jumps. IIRC, 3 or 4 guys were killed on the jump in CA. When they interviewed the Division CDR he stated that he felt pretty good because statistically more soldiers should have died. truth I once figured between 1% and 2% of All Jumpers from any kind of Jump are hurt. It's anything and everything from an "Ouch, but it's nothing" twist or sprain to Call The Medic! Trust me, there is a reason we have dedicated medical coverage on jumps. The injuries run the gamut, and every now and then one is life threatening. Lots of "here's a pretty bandaid, you'll be ok" injuries though - especially for the non-infantry units. I don't recall specifically, but I want to say the ASOP said to expect 5-10% to be combat ineffective due to injuries during a combat jump. Which is why you don't fuck around waiting to get to 100% before moving out to complete your mission. FDC would know exactly what it says though. |
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Posted: 8/25/2014 5:59:09 PM EDT
[#43]
Not counting the off-duty accidents/ suicides/ murders, during my 20 years (1980-2000) and only within the AF C-130 aircraft maintenance and flight operations realm...
People hit by moving vehicles on the flightline. People being injured/ losing body parts/ getting killed by getting caught between heavy/ fast moving objects. People doing maintenance or inspections being injured and killed falling off the top of a Herc or off maintenance stands/ ladders. People injured or killed by being electrocuted or hit by lightening. Heart attacks, strokes, embolisms, heat/ cold injuries. Mil vehicle accidents. 19 USAF Herc accidents/ crashes - some where all survived, some with a mix of injuries and deaths, others with a loss of all crew and passengers. Training flights and operational missions. 2 terrorist attacks - car bomb at Rhein Main AB and the Khobar Towers truck bomb. And there was the Green Ramp. F-16 collided with a C-130 in the pattern at Pope AFB. C-130 was damaged but was able to land, the F-16 crashed onto the flightline and skidded into a C-141B. The explosion and resulting fire and debris went into the area where a bunch of paratroopers were prepping for jumps. 24 dead and 100+ injured. |
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Posted: 8/25/2014 6:02:37 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not sure that's such a good idea. There are enough people who write themselves up for bullshit little commendations, or in the past people who've written themselves up for big bullshit commendations (think the 3 PH's needed to escape Vietnam that some politicians used), that I could see that making for a lot of potential abuse by shitbirds. While Napoleon said that he could conquer Europe with a handful of colored ribbons, and I'm sure such a thing would be popular in some circles, I'd rather see the VA stop putting peacetime and wartime vets on death lists. That'd be a better start. The grunt who ran his knees out for manuevers and PT or the arty bubba who fucked up his back carrying shells or the tracker who busted his shins all to hell on the port lateral drive shaft cover in peacetime could probably benefit from being taken care of in the manner they were promised first, rather than being given an "occupational injury medal". Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: In Tom Kratman's "A Desert Called Peace" series soldiers in the fictional army receive purple hearts for injuries sustained in training. The logic is that training injuries are worthy of just as much honor as an injury sustained in combat, because training is vital for success in combat. I can't say that I disagree. Not sure that's such a good idea. There are enough people who write themselves up for bullshit little commendations, or in the past people who've written themselves up for big bullshit commendations (think the 3 PH's needed to escape Vietnam that some politicians used), that I could see that making for a lot of potential abuse by shitbirds. While Napoleon said that he could conquer Europe with a handful of colored ribbons, and I'm sure such a thing would be popular in some circles, I'd rather see the VA stop putting peacetime and wartime vets on death lists. That'd be a better start. The grunt who ran his knees out for manuevers and PT or the arty bubba who fucked up his back carrying shells or the tracker who busted his shins all to hell on the port lateral drive shaft cover in peacetime could probably benefit from being taken care of in the manner they were promised first, rather than being given an "occupational injury medal". If you read the whole bit of LTC Kratman's book, they were training under conditions in which training injuries and deaths were expected, they were preparing for a hard fight against an enemy with superior forces and possibly technology. Anyone caught trying to write themselves up for a bullshit injury or deliberately injuring themselves to get written up would likely face execution... |
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Posted: 8/25/2014 6:13:25 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not a death but when I was at 29 Palms an NCO went up on a 'trac to deal with a hang-fire on a MK19. Thing went off and hit him in the arm. Didn't detonate, obviously, but nearly severed his arm. Same CAX a generator tech was electrocuted. He survived as well. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Tracker out at 29 Palms doing head space on the M2 with a loaded gun and twisting the barrel for the guy in the UGWS had the idiot in the turret depress the trigger. Went through his vest, through him, and through the back of the vest pretty easily. Then there are the guys who drowned from using the throttle instead of the pedal - Oki, I think - maybe late 90s. ETA: Then there's that LCpl road guard who was left to direct traffic in 29 Palms and forgotten for 3 days while he died of dehydration - and is now used as an example for what not to do in the desert. And for command to get positive accountability of all their men rather than go on a 96 with a LCpl forgotten in the wasteland. Not a death but when I was at 29 Palms an NCO went up on a 'trac to deal with a hang-fire on a MK19. Thing went off and hit him in the arm. Didn't detonate, obviously, but nearly severed his arm. Same CAX a generator tech was electrocuted. He survived as well. I think I was at that CAX where the mech got shocked. Summer CAX? |
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Posted: 8/25/2014 6:13:42 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And there was the Green Ramp. F-16 collided with a C-130 in the pattern at Pope AFB. C-130 was damaged but was able to land, the F-16 crashed onto the flightline and skidded into a C-141B. The explosion and resulting fire and debris went into the area where a bunch of paratroopers were prepping for jumps. 24 dead and 100+ injured. For a long time at Bragg, you could see guys that were there - you could ID them by burns. I knew a guy that had a Soldier's Medal from Green Ramp. |
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Posted: 8/25/2014 6:16:48 PM EDT
[#47]
I went to Norway for a training exersize. This was when the other group of Marines afloat in the Atlantic invaded Grenada. 19 died in Grenada. 17 died in a CH53 that crashed in the Arctic Ocean.
It was safer statistically to be a Marine in combat than one training in Norway. You train as hard as you fight. You are going to get people people hurt or dead. |
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Posted: 8/25/2014 6:17:10 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I remember Gallant Eagle in 1982 which is a 82nd mass tac.....the Division jumps. IIRC, 3 or 4 guys were killed on the jump in CA. When they interviewed the Division CDR he stated that he felt pretty good because statistically more soldiers should have died. I remember the good ol' days of being in the 504th. Every mass attack airborne operation the was at least one casualty and the ER at Womak was filled to capacity. I was injured a few times during training as well. I know a few people that have died in training and who here remembers the Pope Air Force Base, Green Ramp Disaster that happened 1994? It was the largest loss of life in the 82nd since WW2. While my company was deployed to Saudi Arabia Nov 1993 to May 1994, we did an exhibition jump for the king of Saudi. We jumped at an excessive altitude and extremely high winds. There were 13 injuries, some minor and some requiring medevac all the way to Landstuhl. One guy was in a coma for 10 days. |
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Posted: 8/25/2014 6:19:31 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For a long time at Bragg, you could see guys that were there - you could ID them by burns. I knew a guy that had a Soldier's Medal from Green Ramp. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: And there was the Green Ramp. F-16 collided with a C-130 in the pattern at Pope AFB. C-130 was damaged but was able to land, the F-16 crashed onto the flightline and skidded into a C-141B. The explosion and resulting fire and debris went into the area where a bunch of paratroopers were prepping for jumps. 24 dead and 100+ injured. For a long time at Bragg, you could see guys that were there - you could ID them by burns. I knew a guy that had a Soldier's Medal from Green Ramp. That was a very bad day for many people. Could have been even worse had people not stepped up to rescue others. |
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Posted: 8/25/2014 6:20:30 PM EDT
[#50]
CH-46 went down while conducting a MIO in Dec 1999 off the San Diego coast. Lost seven Marines to include five Force Recon Marines that were completing their SOTG package. No instructors from the Special Missions Branch were on board.
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