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Link Posted: 1/23/2019 8:46:31 AM EDT
[#1]
Link Posted: 1/23/2019 11:00:28 AM EDT
[#2]
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Quoted:

The Very absent OP also pointed out that the Deputy came, found nothing wrong, and left.  This is how most of these calls go.  Yet, I pointed out three actual calls where someone was shooting with no backstop at all.  In those cases, we came we found something wrong, and took a report. Charges could have ranged from Disorderly conduct to reckless endangerment.  In addition civil action could have been filed by the victims.  Note that the range law does shield the range owner from civil and criminal liability if they are following the " suggestions " and they are shooting in a safe manner and within the prescribed hours.

I don't think it requires an engineering degree to determine if there is a backstop or not and if rounds are leaving the property or not.  Likewise, if the loud booms are rattling windows off the property, I don't think I'm required to measure the exact decibel level to determine if it's loud.

Personally, I think the calls are bothersome, but I don't get to choose which calls I answer or not.  If someone wants to dispute my determinations when answering such a call, they are welcome to bring their experts to court.
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So you’d ticket someone for a stature that gives decibel limits without any tools or training on how to estimate sound pressures?  Yeah, that sounds really tough to beat in court.  But at least you would get some overtime while it was tossed out.

Also, the statute doesn’t require a backstop so what are you going to do if there isn’t one and there is no complaint or evidence of rounds leaving the property?
Link Posted: 1/23/2019 12:02:43 PM EDT
[#3]
Link Posted: 1/23/2019 12:31:41 PM EDT
[#4]
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Quoted:

It's generally a request, but I'm not leaving till you do.  That way I can note that I was there, I investigated, and I found nothing wrong.  That way when Ms. Moved out to the country for peace and quiet calls again, the call notes will reflect that we've been there before and found nothing wrong.  Then the dispatchers can tell them that there is nothing illegal going on and save me from having to go there again and waste more of my time, your time and our time.
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Please tell the neighbors to call their congress critter and get the HPA passed. Let them know there is a solution.
Link Posted: 1/23/2019 12:45:39 PM EDT
[#5]
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Quoted:

As to question 1. Disorderly conduct does not have a Db limit per se. ORC 2917.11A2.  Let them argue it in court with the complainant. I've actually never cited one because most people are considerate if they are advised there might be some issue no different than some loud stereo complaint. Note that the range law does in fact provide relief from this section and civil liability,  if one is following the recommendations.

You of course are well aware of this but simply want to push the argument for it's own sake and your personal entertainment.

As to #2, It depends. If bullets are not going off property, no problem.  We have one guy who shoots into a hillside, one who uses a ravine on the property.  No danger, no harm, no foul.  This is Ohio where properties are somewhat smaller than one might encounter out west. Most properties where people shoot are between 3 and 100 acres.  Trees unless very thick forrest are probably not a reliable backstop.  This is why one of our members took a round through his front door from a neighbor roughly 1 mile east and took rounds in his back yard from another neighbor about half a mile south.

Most of the time, unless there really is some real problem, I take some minor enjoyment in telling new city bred transplants that this is the country and shooting is legal here.  As noted over many years there are very few real problems.  I kinda feel sorry for our fellow arfcommer having taken incoming at his house from two different directions.  He has a 200 yard range with a safe high and wide backstop that I'm sure he would have let those fellows use if they had just shown up and asked.

We are now at 8 pages because some guy is worried that the cops were called, found no problems, and left. He was cooperative with the officer who was just doing his job, did not violate his rights and can now put the call to rest.  Next call, the neighbors will be advised that there was no problem and that will be that.
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Wow.  So you'd throw a disorderly conduct ticket at a guy which states that unreasonable noises are against the statute when you know of the shooting range statute that has an explanation of what a limit for unacceptable noise is?  I know ignorance of the law is an excuse if you are a cop, but this seems like you actually know better.

And no, we are at eight pages because several people don't take kindly to your "request with at threat behind it".
Link Posted: 1/23/2019 1:11:25 PM EDT
[#6]
Link Posted: 1/23/2019 1:33:45 PM EDT
[#7]
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Quoted:

Not if i see the shooting range and it seems safe and inside the stated hours.

Again you want to argue based upon your personal belief that some grievous wrong is being done to the alleged range owner, when in fact in the real world, most would see the most straightforward way to avoid problems.
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I get it.  Kowtowing and respecting your authority is the best way to avoid problems because you seem insistent on using any bit of your power if the theoretical homeowner slighted you.
Link Posted: 1/23/2019 1:41:14 PM EDT
[#8]
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Quoted:
Not if i see the shooting range and it seems safe and inside the stated hours.

Again you want to argue based upon your personal belief that some grievous wrong is being done to the alleged range owner, when in fact in the real world, most would see the most straightforward way to avoid problems.
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Quoted:

Wow.  So you'd throw a disorderly conduct ticket at a guy which states that unreasonable noises are against the statute when you know of the shooting range statute that has an explanation of what a limit for unacceptable noise is?  I know ignorance of the law is an excuse if you are a cop, but this seems like you actually know better.

And no, we are at eight pages because several people don't take kindly to your "request with at threat behind it".
Not if i see the shooting range and it seems safe and inside the stated hours.

Again you want to argue based upon your personal belief that some grievous wrong is being done to the alleged range owner, when in fact in the real world, most would see the most straightforward way to avoid problems.
Got it, as long as they pick up the can, lick the boot and show you around you'll "let them go" and leave.

If somebody declines to let you poke around their property you hit them with a disorderly conduct ticket even though you have explained in other posts it doesn't meet the definition of the statute.

Great way to protect and serve.
Link Posted: 1/23/2019 1:57:19 PM EDT
[#9]
Link Posted: 1/23/2019 2:02:51 PM EDT
[#10]
Link Posted: 1/23/2019 2:05:42 PM EDT
[#11]
I had a neighbor complain once.  First I purchased a larger cannon.  Later, the oil company needed to put in a production facility, I had e it closer to his house,

Now he can not hear my guns over the production facility, and he no longer needs to electricity to light his house at night.
Link Posted: 1/23/2019 2:21:07 PM EDT
[#12]
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Quoted:

Actually, I stated it does meet the definition of the statute, unless.

In addition, machineguns are prima facia illegal in Ohio unless it is a registered NFA item.  Tannerite is also illegal in Ohio ( OP probably didn't know that as it's a recent statutory change ).

My key point was that there is more than enough to mess with OP over should the cop be inclined to do so.  As an alternative, the OP can do exactly what he did, and all potential problems are avoided.  Plenty of people in this thread offered OP advice that could land him in hot water, but I'm not one of them.
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We get it.  You've spent seven pages explaining how you would do just that.
Link Posted: 1/23/2019 2:25:23 PM EDT
[#13]
Link Posted: 1/23/2019 2:31:35 PM EDT
[#14]
Neighbor is not the boss of you.

Always be polite w/neighbor.  Wave, say hi, etc.

If talking personally w/neighbor, have a witness.  Red flag laws etc.

If neighbor is gun grabbing lefty, (s)he might be looking for an excuse to make a 'win' for his/her side.  Don't fall into that trap.  You have been warned...by your neighbor.
Link Posted: 1/23/2019 2:45:01 PM EDT
[#15]
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Quoted:
When you say they "may be dicks"  whats that warning supposed to mean?

I made sure to offer Form4s to him, and let him see how safe everything is.  My plan is to shrug it off next time and rock on.
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I’ve had the same issue.  Deputies have been out 4 times, and had no issues with my range or backstop.  One did say that some of their officers are not gun guys, and may be dicks, but that I’m completely legal.

All from one elderly neighbor, 1/4 mile away.  She actually walked to my house once to complain in person, and was met with a not so nice response to her yelling. Haven’t had an issue since.
When you say they "may be dicks"  whats that warning supposed to mean?

I made sure to offer Form4s to him, and let him see how safe everything is.  My plan is to shrug it off next time and rock on.
I took it as a heads up to have a prepared response to anything other than "Your good, carry on" from another officer.

Something like "I was warned by another officer that was out here that not all officers are gun enthusiasts, regardless I am acting within the law."
Link Posted: 1/23/2019 3:06:55 PM EDT
[#16]
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Quoted:
What is your advice for the OP?
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Quoted:

We get it.  You've spent seven pages explaining how you would do just that.
What is your advice for the OP?
Be polite and don’t be a dick to the cop, but he’s not your friend don’t invite him shooting unless you are really looking for a new buddy.

My advise for you is to not be a dick also.  And consider dropping the BS that your range inspection is voluntary since you seem perfectly willing to punish the homeowner for not “volunteering“.
Link Posted: 1/23/2019 3:16:18 PM EDT
[#17]
Link Posted: 1/23/2019 4:41:13 PM EDT
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

The Very absent OP also pointed out that the Deputy came, found nothing wrong, and left.  This is how most of these calls go.  Yet, I pointed out three actual calls where someone was shooting with no backstop at all.  In those cases, we came we found something wrong, and took a report. Charges could have ranged from Disorderly conduct to reckless endangerment.  In addition civil action could have been filed by the victims.  Note that the range law does shield the range owner from civil and criminal liability if they are following the " suggestions " and they are shooting in a safe manner and within the prescribed hours.

I don't think it requires an engineering degree to determine if there is a backstop or not and if rounds are leaving the property or not.  Likewise, if the loud booms are rattling windows off the property, I don't think I'm required to measure the exact decibel level to determine if it's loud.

Personally, I think the calls are bothersome, but I don't get to choose which calls I answer or not.  If someone wants to dispute my determinations when answering such a call, they are welcome to bring their experts to court.
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This thread consists of the OP relaying a story about a noise complaint that lead to him being inconvenienced and the LEO most likely wasting his time.  As far as I can tell, this has absolutely nothing to do with your three anecdotes about the two victims, interesting as they may be, given the fact that, as far as what the OP said, no projectiles are known to have left his property.

You decided to make known the fact that, in similar situations, you request (read demand) to observe the backstop for safety (something you are most likely not qualified to do) and will not leave until you have done so.

It may well be true that a person doesn't need an engineering degree to determine if a backstop physically exists.   I am not sure who made that claim but this is completely and totally irrelevant.   I am rather curious if your local government would be comfortable with you declaring shooting ranges "safe" based upon a meet and greet following a noise complaint.

It is also true that you may not be able to choose which calls you answer and which you do not.   This does not mean you are forced to waste your already limited time and resources while inconveniencing your fellow citizens undertaking a job for which you are neither required nor trained and equipped to perform.
Link Posted: 1/23/2019 4:46:12 PM EDT
[#19]
I’m still not sure if tannerite is legal in OH.
Link Posted: 1/23/2019 5:21:34 PM EDT
[#20]
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Quoted:
I’m still not sure if tannerite is legal in OH.
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Legal to sell legal to possess. Illegal to mix, or possess after being mixed.

ETA: 2nd degree felony to mix it. 5th degree felony to possess it (mixed).
Link Posted: 1/23/2019 5:26:19 PM EDT
[#21]
I've seen Deputies called to the same range they were members at.
Link Posted: 1/23/2019 5:30:59 PM EDT
[#22]
Link Posted: 1/23/2019 5:31:32 PM EDT
[#23]
Link Posted: 1/23/2019 5:52:01 PM EDT
[#24]
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Quoted:

You have now managed to completely bore me.
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That is hardly surprising given your track record.

You strike me as a person who is easily bored.  
Link Posted: 1/23/2019 6:11:36 PM EDT
[#25]
Wouldn't citing one for an infraction the LEO knows isn't an infraction over firearms be very close to violating his civil rights under color of law?
Link Posted: 1/23/2019 7:03:14 PM EDT
[#26]
Link Posted: 1/23/2019 7:58:35 PM EDT
[#27]
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Quoted:
It is not.
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Quoted:
I’m still not sure if tannerite is legal in OH.
It is not.
Figured it wouldn’t be hard to get you to mention it again.
Link Posted: 1/23/2019 8:07:05 PM EDT
[#28]
Link Posted: 1/23/2019 8:22:49 PM EDT
[#29]
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Quoted:

You lost me?

If there were some violation found,  and to be clear, in op's case there was not. It would be a noise violation, or having dangerous ordnance.  Perhaps endangerment if rounds went off property. The only firearms violation would be a possible unregistered mg, which again in this case there was not.
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You were talking about citing someone for disturbing the peace even though you know the range laws make that null and void...or did I misunderstand your post?
Link Posted: 1/23/2019 8:30:26 PM EDT
[#30]
Link Posted: 1/23/2019 8:32:28 PM EDT
[#31]
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Quoted:
Buy a real cannon.
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This is the only correct answer. Someone somewhere has a PaK40 or, even better, a FlaK36 for sale with ammo. Time to make an investment in DDs.
Link Posted: 1/25/2019 9:34:30 PM EDT
[#32]
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Quoted:
I've seen Deputies called to the same range they were members at.
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Years ago some NIMBYs were trying to get Chief Okemos Sportsman's Club shut down with claims of bullet holes in houses.
I was talking about it with a friend who was also LE, and he said that if those rounds were coming from an actual range in that area, it would be a nearby LE range where people acted like idiots.
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