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Posted: 1/22/2019 11:30:49 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So if I call you for a “man wearing a suit” you are required to investigate and will call in your haberdashery SME on overtime? |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 12:26:57 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Depends, was he allegedly lobbing rounds into the neighbor's back yard? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
So if I call you for a “man wearing a suit” you are required to investigate and will call in your haberdashery SME on overtime? |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 12:33:10 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Which is not at all what the complaint was in this case. It was a noise complaint because the neighbor didn't like him shooting "cannons and full auto". Note how I worded that because this is how the Ohio revised code words it. There is a reason for that. The item is presumed by law to be illegal until proven otherwise. Either case would be more than reasonable suspicion to investigate. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 12:37:41 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Buy a real cannon. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 12:39:10 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Tannerite is cheaper. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 12:39:47 PM EDT
[#6]
I’d send it with the FAL and sing them the song of our people.
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Posted: 1/22/2019 12:40:25 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
"Shooting a cannon, and a full auto" S.O. sent out a deputy, and he pulled about 400 feet back into the property on my drive. I am shooting suppressed when I hear the blips from his siren. I hop in the SxS and head up there, sure enough there is the cruiser. Tells me the neighbor (points) has complained that I am shooting a full auto, and some type of cannon. Yes. Yes I am. I point to a 8" barreled FAL and other toys in the SxS He laughs and says yeah thats probably it. Tells me if it was his property, he would keep right on having fun. I am done for the day anyway. He asks if my range is safe, I show him, all is well. How do you guys handle this? I have 4 neighbors within a half mile. All but one shoots all the time. Whats expected of this in the future? Land is out in the county as much as it can be. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 12:42:04 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The guy who called the cops on me shooting also shoots and was a Dekalb county cop in the past. He was concerned about the machine guns. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 12:47:44 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Oh well. If he was in a suit shooting cannons ( we usually interpret this as tannerite which is illegal in Ohio, might be actual cannons as those( at least the muzzel loading variety) are not illegal but hey, you don't really know until you ask, then the cops should investigate. Full Auto is also illegal unless it is a registered NFA item. Note how I worded that because this is how the Ohio revised code words it. There is a reason for that. The item is presumed by law to be illegal until proven otherwise. Either case would be more than reasonable suspicion to investigate. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Which is not at all what the complaint was in this case. It was a noise complaint because the neighbor didn't like him shooting "cannons and full auto". Note how I worded that because this is how the Ohio revised code words it. There is a reason for that. The item is presumed by law to be illegal until proven otherwise. Either case would be more than reasonable suspicion to investigate. 
And again you are moving the goalposts from investigating the purpose of the call to you assessing if the range is safe to your specifications. 
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Posted: 1/22/2019 12:52:34 PM EDT
[#10]
Make sure you know your local noise ordnance regulations than host an arfcom machine gun shoot they begins and ends at those exact times.
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Posted: 1/22/2019 12:56:52 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Oh well. If he was in a suit shooting cannons ( we usually interpret this as tannerite which is illegal in Ohio, might be actual cannons as those( at least the muzzel loading variety) are not illegal but hey, you don't really know until you ask, then the cops should investigate. Full Auto is also illegal unless it is a registered NFA item. Note how I worded that because this is how the Ohio revised code words it. There is a reason for that. The item is presumed by law to be illegal until proven otherwise. Either case would be more than reasonable suspicion to investigate. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Which is not at all what the complaint was in this case. It was a noise complaint because the neighbor didn't like him shooting "cannons and full auto". Note how I worded that because this is how the Ohio revised code words it. There is a reason for that. The item is presumed by law to be illegal until proven otherwise. Either case would be more than reasonable suspicion to investigate. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 1:11:57 PM EDT
[#12]
Ohio
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Posted: 1/22/2019 1:29:34 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This. Sooner or later, the SO will tell your neighbor that what you are doing is legal and not send a deputy out anymore. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Just keep doing what you are doing. He will get tired of calling LE, and they will get tired of him calling them. It will work itself out. Sooner or later, the SO will tell your neighbor that what you are doing is legal and not send a deputy out anymore. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 1:44:21 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Oh well. If he was in a suit shooting cannons ( we usually interpret this as tannerite which is illegal in Ohio, might be actual cannons as those( at least the muzzel loading variety) are not illegal but hey, you don't really know until you ask, then the cops should investigate. Full Auto is also illegal unless it is a registered NFA item. Note how I worded that because this is how the Ohio revised code words it. There is a reason for that. The item is presumed by law to be illegal until proven otherwise. Either case would be more than reasonable suspicion to investigate. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 3:01:41 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Law enforcement must be weird in Ohio. I don't know if I'd be capable of identifying something as an illegal machine gun unless it was being used to commit a violent crime. I must need more training... |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 3:02:26 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Having something specifically protected by the constitution in the most strongly chosen words as possible is presumed to be illegal. Hell of a country we live in that people will happily enforce those unconstitutional laws.
And again you are moving the goalposts from investigating the purpose of the call to you assessing if the range is safe to your specifications. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 3:10:03 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Buy a real cannon. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 4:10:31 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Like a Bofors. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Buy a real cannon. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 4:19:03 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you where my neighbor I would file a complaint with the HOA and Chamber of Commerce. I would probably call an attorney and file a cease and desist letter along with filing a TRO. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 4:22:08 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Back to tilting at windmills and straw men I see. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Having something specifically protected by the constitution in the most strongly chosen words as possible is presumed to be illegal. Hell of a country we live in that people will happily enforce those unconstitutional laws.
And again you are moving the goalposts from investigating the purpose of the call to you assessing if the range is safe to your specifications. And yeah, I'm a sucker for "shall not be infringed" and my oaths I took to support and defend it. YMMV. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 4:25:58 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes, the straw man of you saying you'd insist on inspecting the guy's range for safety over a noise complaint. And yeah, I'm a sucker for "shall not be infringed" and my oaths I took to support and defend it. YMMV. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 5:13:56 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The rest of us live in reality. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 5:42:35 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The rest of us live in reality. As long as you have your badge and hall monitor icon to hide behind, everyone else is a less equal animal? This has been an enlightening thread. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 5:58:48 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Back to tilting at windmills and straw men I see. Oh and just out of morbid curiosity: do you have any formal or informal training as a structural engineer, an architect, or any other specialized field even remotely related to construction? |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 6:21:43 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sooo, shall not be infringed and defending it is NOT reality to you? As long as you have your badge and hall monitor icon to hide behind, everyone else is a less equal animal? This has been an enlightening thread. The take your badge off schtick us childish. You wouldnt go if i showed up wearing a t shirt, bermuda shorts and flip flops. Just stop with the theatrics and virtue signalling. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 6:36:23 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That is not the use of a straw man fallacy. It's not even close. Oh and just out of morbid curiosity: do you have any formal or informal training as a structural engineer, an architect, or any other specialized field even remotely related to construction? I have 2 years of aerospace flight and engineering before changing majors. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 6:49:40 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Point me to the section that covers sending noise and lead onto your neigjbor's property. The sections of law i cited also include allowable noise levels. The second isnt even in play here. The take your badge off schtick us childish. You wouldnt go if i showed up wearing a t shirt, bermuda shorts and flip flops. Just stop with the theatrics and virtue signalling. 
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Posted: 1/22/2019 7:01:47 PM EDT
[#28]
Same thing happened here a month ago.
Nothing that they can do about it |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 7:34:24 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Tannerite is the only proper response LOTS of Tannerite  |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 7:57:46 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ohio |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 8:17:41 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Point me to the section that covers sending noise and lead onto your neigjbor's property. The sections of law i cited also include allowable noise levels. The second isnt even in play here. The take your badge off schtick us childish. You wouldnt go if i showed up wearing a t shirt, bermuda shorts and flip flops. Just stop with the theatrics and virtue signalling. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Sooo, shall not be infringed and defending it is NOT reality to you? As long as you have your badge and hall monitor icon to hide behind, everyone else is a less equal animal? This has been an enlightening thread. The take your badge off schtick us childish. You wouldnt go if i showed up wearing a t shirt, bermuda shorts and flip flops. Just stop with the theatrics and virtue signalling. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 8:19:58 PM EDT
[#32]
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Posted: 1/22/2019 8:33:06 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Oh well. If he was in a suit shooting cannons ( we usually interpret this as tannerite which is illegal in Ohio, might be actual cannons as those( at least the muzzel loading variety) are not illegal but hey, you don't really know until you ask, then the cops should investigate. Full Auto is also illegal unless it is a registered NFA item. Note how I worded that because this is how the Ohio revised code words it. There is a reason for that. The item is presumed by law to be illegal until proven otherwise. Either case would be more than reasonable suspicion to investigate. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 9:35:51 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
See, i posted the actual law related to this incident with cites, he diverted a noise complaint into a 2a issue. Thats a straw man if ive ever seen one. I have 2 years of aerospace flight and engineering before changing majors. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
That is not the use of a straw man fallacy. It's not even close. Oh and just out of morbid curiosity: do you have any formal or informal training as a structural engineer, an architect, or any other specialized field even remotely related to construction? I have 2 years of aerospace flight and engineering before changing majors. Out of curiosity, would you run the serial numbers on the firearms before you left? |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 9:36:59 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Since buying tannerite and possessing un mixed tannerite are both legal in Ohio how do you enforce that law. By the time you show up, the "Dangerous Ordnance" should be gone. Pretend you're the good guy and pressure people into a confession, or call out the crime lab and analze the crater residue? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Oh well. If he was in a suit shooting cannons ( we usually interpret this as tannerite which is illegal in Ohio, might be actual cannons as those( at least the muzzel loading variety) are not illegal but hey, you don't really know until you ask, then the cops should investigate. Full Auto is also illegal unless it is a registered NFA item. Note how I worded that because this is how the Ohio revised code words it. There is a reason for that. The item is presumed by law to be illegal until proven otherwise. Either case would be more than reasonable suspicion to investigate.
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Posted: 1/22/2019 9:56:32 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: As a casual observer of this conversation, Nobody was threatening or implying a threat of violence in any way. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 9:58:18 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Since buying tannerite and possessing un mixed tannerite are both legal in Ohio how do you enforce that law. By the time you show up, the "Dangerous Ordnance" should be gone. Pretend you're the good guy and pressure people into a confession, or call out the crime lab and analze the crater residue? |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 10:01:16 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You did indeed post a link to the shooting range statute, which starts every section other than the hours to be used with "should". Would you need to perform a safety inspection of the recommended, but not required items in order to look at your watch? Out of curiosity, would you run the serial numbers on the firearms before you left? |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 10:23:18 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
See, i posted the actual law related to this incident with cites, he diverted a noise complaint into a 2a issue. Thats a straw man if ive ever seen one. I have 2 years of aerospace flight and engineering before changing majors. (2) Two years of aerospace flight and engineering. Excellent. How many of those classes involved the design, implementation, construction, and safe use of a firing range and/or aspects of a firing range (i.e. a safe backstop) or anything related to that subject beyond Physics 101, multi-variable calculus , or any generic STEM class? |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 10:28:41 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryLOL. WTF.
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Posted: 1/22/2019 10:29:07 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted:
"Shooting a cannon, and a full auto" S.O. sent out a deputy, and he pulled about 400 feet back into the property on my drive. I am shooting suppressed when I hear the blips from his siren. I hop in the SxS and head up there, sure enough there is the cruiser. Tells me the neighbor (points) has complained that I am shooting a full auto, and some type of cannon. Yes. Yes I am. I point to a 8" barreled FAL and other toys in the SxS He laughs and says yeah thats probably it. Tells me if it was his property, he would keep right on having fun. I am done for the day anyway. He asks if my range is safe, I show him, all is well. How do you guys handle this? I have 4 neighbors within a half mile. All but one shoots all the time. Whats expected of this in the future? Land is out in the county as much as it can be. |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 10:29:20 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sorry, all I read through that was "who wants to come over for a range day? Bring tannerite" |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 10:44:56 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Also, keep a copy of this handy and follow the guidelines. Follow the law and ye shall come to no harm. http://codes.ohio.gov/oac/1501:31-29-03 Quote HistoryQuoted:
Also, keep a copy of this handy and follow the guidelines. Follow the law and ye shall come to no harm. http://codes.ohio.gov/oac/1501:31-29-03 (D) Private and public shooting ranges should substantially comply with safety guidelines generally recognized and accepted by the national rifle association (NRA). Suggested safety guidelines are described or explained in great detail in "The NRA Range Source Book, 2012 edition ." For the purpose of the chief of the division of wildlife's standards for shooting ranges, private and public shooting ranges shall have an implemented safety plan that substantially includes, but is not limited to, the following items: Do you keep a copy of it for reference when examining backstops? I assume you have read it at least once and perhaps multiple times, yes? |
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Posted: 1/22/2019 11:44:27 PM EDT
[#44]
This thread has become a great reminder as to why you never talk to cops.
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Posted: 1/22/2019 11:45:20 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A copy of that statute, in and of itself, will not provide much if ANY guidance when judging the physical safety of a backstop beyond noise levels as you will need to reference 1501:31-29-03. (D) which reads, in part (emphasis mine): That means you need the The NRA Range Source Book, 2012 edition, to go along with that statute. For anyone who has not seen that book, it's massive. Do you keep a copy of it for reference when examining backstops? I assume you have read it at least once and perhaps multiple times, yes? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Also, keep a copy of this handy and follow the guidelines. Follow the law and ye shall come to no harm. http://codes.ohio.gov/oac/1501:31-29-03 (D) Private and public shooting ranges should substantially comply with safety guidelines generally recognized and accepted by the national rifle association (NRA). Suggested safety guidelines are described or explained in great detail in "The NRA Range Source Book, 2012 edition ." For the purpose of the chief of the division of wildlife's standards for shooting ranges, private and public shooting ranges shall have an implemented safety plan that substantially includes, but is not limited to, the following items: Do you keep a copy of it for reference when examining backstops? I assume you have read it at least once and perhaps multiple times, yes? |
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Posted: 1/23/2019 12:33:39 AM EDT
[#46]
It's the"If you don't voluntarily give up your rights and let us do what we want we will fuck with you to show you who's boss" attitude that pisses people off.
I'm not sure why that is so hard to grasp. |
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Posted: 1/23/2019 5:08:09 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
(1) That isn't the use of the straw man fallacy or if it is it certainly isn't clear or obvious. If you don't know what the straw man fallacy is then just say so and I will be happy to fill you in. If you think it is the use of the straw man fallacy, diagram the argument and see for yourself. (2) Two years of aerospace flight and engineering. Excellent. How many of those classes involved the design, implementation, construction, and safe use of a firing range and/or aspects of a firing range (i.e. a safe backstop) or anything related to that subject beyond Physics 101, multi-variable calculus , or any generic STEM class? I can recall two instances where that was the case. Actually three, but two of those involved the same " victim " who is also a member here. In one case, the round went through his front door traversing his house and lodging in a kitchen cabinet, in the other rounds were landing between his house and garage. Also a case of a guy at higher elevation hitting the trees at a lower elevation where the victim was sitting and ultimately unassed his tree stand. In those cases, the victims declined to file charges but would have been well within their rights to do so and or sue the other parties. There is a principal in law that goes something like this. One persons rights end at the next guy's nose. |
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Posted: 1/23/2019 6:30:04 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The guy who caled Dekalb county . |
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Posted: 1/23/2019 6:46:25 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Depends, was he allegedly lobbing rounds into the neighbor's back yard? |
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Posted: 1/23/2019 7:26:52 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
See here is the thing on number 2. I'm not required to inspect, author or support engineering documents regarding someone's firing range. All I really need to know is whether or not rounds are leaving said range and going onto someone else' property as is often alleged, or not. If someone is shooting into a pretty high backstop, say higher than their target stand, or down into a depression, then probably not. If they are shooting across relatively flat open ground with no backstop, there is a pretty good chance that their rounds are not being stopped. I can recall two instances where that was the case. Actually three, but two of those involved the same " victim " who is also a member here. In one case, the round went through his front door traversing his house and lodging in a kitchen cabinet, in the other rounds were landing between his house and garage. Also a case of a guy at higher elevation hitting the trees at a lower elevation where the victim was sitting and ultimately unassed his tree stand. In those cases, the victims declined to file charges but would have been well within their rights to do so and or sue the other parties. There is a principal in law that goes something like this. One persons rights end at the next guy's nose. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
(1) That isn't the use of the straw man fallacy or if it is it certainly isn't clear or obvious. If you don't know what the straw man fallacy is then just say so and I will be happy to fill you in. If you think it is the use of the straw man fallacy, diagram the argument and see for yourself. (2) Two years of aerospace flight and engineering. Excellent. How many of those classes involved the design, implementation, construction, and safe use of a firing range and/or aspects of a firing range (i.e. a safe backstop) or anything related to that subject beyond Physics 101, multi-variable calculus , or any generic STEM class? I can recall two instances where that was the case. Actually three, but two of those involved the same " victim " who is also a member here. In one case, the round went through his front door traversing his house and lodging in a kitchen cabinet, in the other rounds were landing between his house and garage. Also a case of a guy at higher elevation hitting the trees at a lower elevation where the victim was sitting and ultimately unassed his tree stand. In those cases, the victims declined to file charges but would have been well within their rights to do so and or sue the other parties. There is a principal in law that goes something like this. One persons rights end at the next guy's nose. There is a difference between determining whether or not rounds LEFT (past tense), are LEAVING (present tense) somebody's range/property, and inspecting a person's backstop for safety to ensure rounds "are not zinging off your property" (presumably future tense). Remember the story relayed by the OP had nothing to do with rounds leaving that person's range but a noise complaint made by a neighbor. From the OP (emphasis mine): "[The Officer] Tells me the neighbor (points) has complained that I am shooting a full auto, and some type of cannon." |
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