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Quoted: I just can't see Karl as the "good guy". This is what he said in an interview with "A better way 2A" "Karl: "With the firearms community, I don't see an alternative left, but as we grass roots grow groups everywhere working together, again with shared values, maybe not always shared beliefs, shared values will be where we can make a new space that is separate and distinct and different from the old and if we succeeded doing that well, the old one might become sort of defunct and we will become the new gun community." From "A better way 2A" youtube channel, this "helping camaraderie of non traditional gun rights advocates" they work with https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/161929/betterway2a_png-2698073.JPG Notice inrange in there with the couple of JBGC's, SRA and Yellow Peril Tactical. And again, he is the one posting calling for the deaths of people who oppose "queer freedom". https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/161929/inrange_1_png-2698076.JPG To have him and Russell lump everyone who uses this site as bigots, racists and threats to "marginalized" people was a low shot. No, if you have any personal convictions out of step with the latest leftist script, you rate death. To say that the Second Amendments is for everyone, without question, when I personally don't see it being used appropriately like this: https://static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2022/08/9629a57b-image.png Or like this: https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2020/05/29/10/28966236-8368923-image-a-19_1590745607227.jpg No, Karl and Russell seem to be fine with masked armed men engaging in intimidation and I can't agree with that. While I won't defend those that called for deplatforming, is it libel if the evidence and admissions show it to be true? While not outright, it was admitted that everything you shared was accurate  I will let the evidence speak for itself, but calling for deplatforming will only put one on the same level as his fans. |
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Quoted: Thank you. Holy shit I had to hold myself back a lot yesterday. Its actually pretty easy. Just keep a cool head. Its just the internet. With people like that, talking shit on the internet doesn't actually hurt them. They know the game. They want you to go on tilt and get your account locked. The only way to actually hurt them with words is to say the words in person. In person its real. You don't even have to use swears or slurs. Just calmly tell them the truth. They feel it in their core. Proceed with caution, this often results in violent outbursts. |
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I don't think that Karl realizes that many of us don't care about being called bigoted hate-speeching transphobes anymore. 'Honest' debate with him is pointless, he isn't interested in self-reflection. He has long associated with people who would quite literally line me up against the wall if given the chance for doing nothing more than having my own beliefs in the privacy of my home if such beliefs go against their marxist ideology. Pray the rosary? Boom, suspected Catholic extremist transphobe. Go to a church that preaches the Christian view of marriage? Boom, homophobia. Don't want graphic cartoon books of kids having sex in elementary schools and speak out at school board meetings? Off to the camp with you, bigot, and inform the FBI because you might also be a terrorist. I don't even do the things above, but that isn't point - I must be a bigot full of hate for pointing out his hypocrisy. And his buddy owner of a gun company comes in here and pretends there is an army of people on this site supporting the restriction of gun rights of Americans due to which dangly bits they prefer or want to cut off their bodies. Funny enough, I don't ever recall seeing a single comment of that nature. I did see a lot of people point out Karl's 'death to all bigots' patch or whatever it said, and how that's not a good look for a gun company to associate with that. Boom, you must want to restrict gays and trans from owning guns. |
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Quoted: Ignoring disgusting degenerates has gotten us where we are, and their incrementalism isn't stopping. Quoted: Quoted: I can't believe y'all let this guy live in y'all's heads. Ignoring disgusting degenerates has gotten us where we are, and their incrementalism isn't stopping. Correct |
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Quoted: Ignoring disgusting degenerates has gotten us where we are, and their incrementalism isn't stopping. Quoted: Quoted: I can't believe y'all let this guy live in y'all's heads. Ignoring disgusting degenerates has gotten us where we are, and their incrementalism isn't stopping. Yep. The end result of hardcore ideological libertarianism is always going to be people like the owner of KE Arms, so focused on the idea that nobody's behavior can ever be criticized (and only mere criticism, we're not even talking the passage of laws) that they must defend quite horrific behavior and beliefs such as 'death to all bigots', curiously all in the name of 'individual rights' and the American way of life. Libertarians always say that their belief system means they just want to be left alone and for everybody to have the same right to do so. That's great, I still have major sympathies to that point of view. But the side that only just wants to be left alone for the sake of being left alone, will always eventually be defeated by the side that wants to win. And Karl's side wants to win. If anybody has any doubts about that, just reference his past comments and images about what he thinks of you if you just merely disagree with him. Play a game of 'spot the satanic/socialist symbols' in videos he releases. Reference his buddy pretending to be the neutral peacemaker and yet he lies about what you said no matter how you prove them wrong. "We" can win as well, without resorting to calling for people to be put to death over disagreements, without flat-out lying, without supporting failed revolutionary ideologies that destroy societies, but we have to actually want to win and not to just merely be left alone. |
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Quoted: hardcore ideological libertarianism see also: pedophilia Letting everyone do what they want while simultaneously shifting goal posts to what is harmful or not is exactly what has been murdering western society. Karl is a symptom of the cancer. Satanist, leftist, polygamist, transgender defender, alcoholic, and otherwise complete piece of shit human being. None of this would had made it to the limelight had people rejected him based on that, and just just allowed it all this time because "muh youtube content about guns!". |
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Quoted: You’re not wrong, but talking shit about him on a forum is hardly doing anything. Seems like more pointless internet drama. It is bring attention to something that needs a unanimous rejection, and the more people who are aware of his degeneracy the more people to reject his agency. You go and put your head in the sand. I want people like Karl removed from society and used as examples of what evil is. |
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Quoted: It is bring attention to something that needs a unanimous rejection, and the more people who are aware of his degeneracy the more people to reject his agency. You go and put your head in the sand. I want people like Karl removed from society and used as examples of what evil is. I pretty much concur with this. It goes under my "don't fuck with kids" rule. The people that think I wouldn't talk to Karl like this in real life clearly have never met me out and about. I don't labor under the illusion I am a "good" or a "nice" person, but I have absolutely no time for wicked men and their evil - nor will I stand idly by while they perpetuate it. |
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Quoted: It is bring attention to something that needs a unanimous rejection, and the more people who are aware of his degeneracy the more people to reject his agency. You go and put your head in the sand. I want people like Karl removed from society and used as examples of what evil is. Neat. Nobody gives a shit that some guy was exposed on ar.15.com outside of people on ar.15.com. |
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Quoted: Redeemed commies are the best commies. And internet is serious business, after all. If there were a handful of us having a discussion around a picnic table at a barbecue and someone just brought up the drag shows for kids support, he'd have a hard time trying to ramp up the volume just to distract from bad decisions or statements in the past, and then would have to defend his decisions. Or admit that it's inconsistent with his own beliefs. It's too bad he retreated to his safe space. Also too bad that at least for the time being he and Russell are locked. ETA: of course, there are probably things we as members don't see that staff does, so I could be wrong. Quoted: Quoted: That’s a charitable take. I hope it is the correct one. I completely understand the reactionary thinking as well. It’s fairly linear. Redeemed commies are the best commies. And internet is serious business, after all. If there were a handful of us having a discussion around a picnic table at a barbecue and someone just brought up the drag shows for kids support, he'd have a hard time trying to ramp up the volume just to distract from bad decisions or statements in the past, and then would have to defend his decisions. Or admit that it's inconsistent with his own beliefs. It's too bad he retreated to his safe space. Also too bad that at least for the time being he and Russell are locked. ETA: of course, there are probably things we as members don't see that staff does, so I could be wrong. I don’t think it’s too bad, IMHO. I’m surrounded by people like them who want to destroy me and my family. They don’t need to be in this space too. They and their scumbag ilk have the mass media and Hollywood and a whole party … let them leave ARF alone. |
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Quoted: Neat. Nobody gives a shit that some guy was exposed on ar.15.com outside of people on ar.15.com. Quoted: Quoted: It is bring attention to something that needs a unanimous rejection, and the more people who are aware of his degeneracy the more people to reject his agency. You go and put your head in the sand. I want people like Karl removed from society and used as examples of what evil is. Neat. Nobody gives a shit that some guy was exposed on ar.15.com outside of people on ar.15.com. His target audience certainly overlaps this site membership. |
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Quoted: Trying to stay out of this as much as possible. I do find it sad that one side is lighting torches and grabbing pitchforks and the other is not. With that said, I will again ask everyone here to not attack them and leave them in peace. We are not here to harm companies who are not our enemy and who believe in the 2A. Anyone who promotes an agenda like this will be warned or removed. They are entitled to their opinions and beliefs. It is the very core of what makes this country great. If you don't agree with them, then don't go to their pages! Is it against the rules to state that I’m not going to spend money with a company that supports them? I don’t think that an unreasonable position. |
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Quoted: That whole CavArms thing was stupid. IIRC we provided funding for their legal defense fund without being told the full story behind the ATF raiding CavArms. We essentially funded a lie. That’s how I remember it. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Since when? Because we don't share a certain belief of have our own opinions? Russel actually learned about pander-marketing to an internet identity group right here on Arfcom, back when CavArms was the site’s favorite project, but I don’t think he was ever a big fan of Arfcom. That whole CavArms thing was stupid. IIRC we provided funding for their legal defense fund without being told the full story behind the ATF raiding CavArms. We essentially funded a lie. That’s how I remember it. I spread a false rumor I heard that the raid was based on Cavalry vs Calvary on paperwork. I regret posting a lie but didn’t know it at the time and don’t feel bad about it or supporting them. Wish I bought all the CavArms colors and had my own Dewalt, Milwaukee, etc. builds. IIRC they were found to have evaded taxes by giving away rifles and nothing else for those that don’t know. Years ago I supported InRange’s Patreon page and deeply regret it. Would love the WWSD rifle but not gonna support them. Leftism is bad enough but letting predators taking the lives or innocence of children is the most evil thing possible. That should not be up for debate. |
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Quoted: Neat. Nobody gives a shit that some guy was exposed on ar.15.com outside of people on ar.15.com. Quoted: Quoted: It is bring attention to something that needs a unanimous rejection, and the more people who are aware of his degeneracy the more people to reject his agency. You go and put your head in the sand. I want people like Karl removed from society and used as examples of what evil is. Neat. Nobody gives a shit that some guy was exposed on ar.15.com outside of people on ar.15.com. Karl, Russel, and their supporters certainly do |
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Quoted: Is it against the rules to state that I'm not going to spend money with a company that supports them? I don't think that an unreasonable position. I don't think stating something to that effect is against the rules, I think it's the brigading that isn't. Posting contact forms, etc and encouraging others to do so (publicly) is the problem according to the team here. Sort of like the doxxing rule. I'm willing to hear to the contrary however. I certainly have stated my position and where I stand on the issue and my actions |
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Quoted: I spread a false rumor I heard that the raid was based on Cavalry vs Calvary on paperwork. I regret posting a lie but didn’t know it at the time and don’t feel bad about it or supporting them. Wish I bought all the CavArms colors and had my own Dewalt, Milwaukee, etc. builds. IIRC they were found to have evaded taxes by giving away rifles and nothing else for those that don’t know. Years ago I supported InRange’s Patreon page and deeply regret it. Would love the WWSD rifle but not gonna support them. Leftism is bad enough but letting predators taking the lives or innocence of children is the most evil thing possible. That should not be up for debate. That’s all wrong too. My understanding (likely also wrong) is that they transferred some weapons, in Arizona, to a guy who was a California resident. Dude had an AZ address and a AZ ID. Interestingly, I used to know that guy. ATF stacked a ton of bullshit charges to coerce a plea deal. Lots of Arfcommers bought special lowers or donated to CavAid. CavArms was very big on Arf then. When Shawn took the deal, a lot of people here were mad, like they thought their $10 donation obligated CavArms to fight to the death and go to prison. CavAid was cool but it ended with a vocal group making GD look bad. That’s my (possibly all screwed up) memory of how it happened. |
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Quoted: Oh man. Look how quick they dogpile anyone pointing out the hypocrisy. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/239198/5EC10E90-85FA-4C0B-9B13-AFB454B32863-2698220.jpg 
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I’m just disappointed that GD fell for exactly what he wanted. The moment the boss showed up Karl smelled blood in the water and pulled out all the stops to get the thread locked. One quarter of all his posts in 18 years are that thread alone. It’s not hard to figure out why. |
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Quoted: The part I will never understand is the wanting/willingness for harm to happen to those you disagree with. The premise behind that is two fold. Violence perpetrated against an individual and a perceived lack of rights. I've never been able to get someone on the trans side of the debate to actual point out ways i as a straight white man have more rights then a trans person. I can point out ways a trans person is now catered to at my place of employment that hurts everybody else, the women especially. The violence part, it's not a random person being murdered in their home in suburbia, it's normally in some fringe area and the "violence" is there as part of the area. IMO they have fallen into a trap that leads them to the fallacy of "if you disagree with me, you hate me, and want to harm me" they really believe that baloney. |
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Quoted: There was a lot of work in that thread by a lot of people. I find it interesting that Karl in his own words has stated that he wants to create a space where the old gun community is the minority and his new gun community is the norm. This is from a guy that posts death patches on social media, refers to arfcom in derogatory terms and attacks anyone not in lock step with him as a racist or bigot. Karl and Russell phagan, who really kind of dragged Anderson and PSA through the mud last night, are breathing a sigh that the thread got locked and it kinda appeared to coincide with Karl's appearance and escalating posts last night. They win, and that really sucks. Yup. Makes you wonder... 
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Quoted: He obfuscated by saying teaching your kids morals is also grooming. Quoted: Quoted: He refused to say grooming is bad. All I need to know. He obfuscated by saying teaching your kids morals is also grooming. Grooming is psychological manipulation and gaslighting that leaves someone vulnerable to abuse, for example Desmond Is (not) Amazing was groomed to be a 10 year old bachi bazi dancing suggestively for adult men while performatively sniffing ketamine. |
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Quoted: I’m just disappointed that GD fell for exactly what he wanted. The moment the boss showed up Karl smelled blood in the water and pulled out all the stops to get the thread locked. One quarter of all his posts in 18 years are that thread alone. It’s not hard to figure out why. It's not that I disagree overall, but he and his friend are now gone and a new thread is already up and running. So it's not like he pulled out much of a victory. All the previous info will just be brought up again or linked to. |
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Quoted: Trying to stay out of this as much as possible. I do find it sad that one side is lighting torches and grabbing pitchforks and the other is not. With that said, I will again ask everyone here to not attack them and leave them in peace. We are not here to harm companies who are not our enemy and who believe in the 2A. Anyone who promotes an agenda like this will be warned or removed. They are entitled to their opinions and beliefs. It is the very core of what makes this country great. If you don't agree with them, then don't go to their pages! Did you not read where they want to deplatform and cancel your site that we like? I don't see us saying the same things. |
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Quoted: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FoH795kWYAAWBll?format=jpg&name=small There's also a healthy amount of this going on with Karl and Ko. This cycle only works if the other side plays along. This site bans folks for childish insults, trolling, etc. and these are members, who most would probably agree, are here for the right reasons. Then you got these “people” who are trying to normalize ‘stuff’, only appear to disrupt. But, it takes an act of God to remove clear trolls and others. |
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Quoted: Is it against the rules to state that I’m not going to spend money with a company that supports them? I don’t think that an unreasonable position. Nope. That is your choice and you are free to say so. It's the organizing a mob that I don't particularly care for. |
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Quoted: Nope. That is your choice and you are free to say so. It's the organizing a mob that I don't particularly care for. You can’t organize a mob. The disorganization is the charm of a mob. If you organize it, it’s more of a posse. Maybe a squad, or a crew, depending on size and motivation level. |
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Quoted: Yep. The end result of hardcore ideological libertarianism is always going to be people like the owner of KE Arms, so focused on the idea that nobody's behavior can ever be criticized (and only mere criticism, we're not even talking the passage of laws) that they must defend quite horrific behavior and beliefs such as 'death to all bigots', curiously all in the name of 'individual rights' and the American way of life. Libertarians always say that their belief system means they just want to be left alone and for everybody to have the same right to do so. That's great, I still have major sympathies to that point of view. But the side that only just wants to be left alone for the sake of being left alone, will always eventually be defeated by the side that wants to win. And Karl's side wants to win. If anybody has any doubts about that, just reference his past comments and images about what he thinks of you if you just merely disagree with him. Play a game of 'spot the satanic/socialist symbols' in videos he releases. Reference his buddy pretending to be the neutral peacemaker and yet he lies about what you said no matter how you prove them wrong. "We" can win as well, without resorting to calling for people to be put to death over disagreements, without flat-out lying, without supporting failed revolutionary ideologies that destroy societies, but we have to actually want to win and not to just merely be left alone. Libertarianism is unique in that its biggest selling point is also its biggest potential failure. The big point of that here is that allowing grooming, socialism, extra rights is not libertarian. These things hurt others, and libertarians (should) draw lines in stuff like this. It’s not an approach in which one sells out and ignores things like Russel is doing. It’s leave people alone as long as they don’t change/harm my way of life. Supporting Antifa, socialists, and these groups of people who are trying to mold society in their favor is not libertarian. There’s a big difference in not caring if someone is gay, versus arming them and flipping profit off people forcing their beliefs on others. Point being that Russel is not a libertarian. He’s just lazy and greedy, or empathizes with their cause. |
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Quoted: Did you not read where they want to deplatform and cancel your site that we like? I don't see us saying the same things. Of course I have. I've been at this for almost 30 years. I have seen a lot and been through a lot. If they are blowing off steam, so be it. If they truly intend to go this route then I will only say, "Come and Take It". |
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Quoted: Karl, Russel, and their supporters certainly do Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: It is bring attention to something that needs a unanimous rejection, and the more people who are aware of his degeneracy the more people to reject his agency. You go and put your head in the sand. I want people like Karl removed from society and used as examples of what evil is. Neat. Nobody gives a shit that some guy was exposed on ar.15.com outside of people on ar.15.com. Karl, Russel, and their supporters certainly do He BIG sneedin. SAD! |
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Titty sprinkles |
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Quoted: Libertarianism is unique in that its biggest selling point is also its biggest potential failure. The big point of that here is that allowing grooming, socialism, extra rights is not libertarian. These things hurt others, and libertarians (should) draw lines in stuff like this. It’s not an approach in which one sells out and ignores things like Russel is doing. It’s leave people alone as long as they don’t change/harm my way of life. Supporting Antifa, socialists, and these groups of people who are trying to mold society in their favor is not libertarian. There’s a big difference in not caring if someone is gay, versus arming them and flipping profit off people forcing their beliefs on others. Point being that Russel is not a libertarian. He’s just lazy and greedy, or empathizes with their cause. Yes I agree with all points. My intent was not to label Russell as a libertarian at all, but to imply that a broadly libertarian culture will allow people like him to blend in as if he was. I didn’t want to speculate or define what his politics truly are as he isn’t here to defend or define it nor am I particularly interested in listening to him anymore if he were - it would probably be untrue anyways based on how he has acted. And the sad part is that I don’t think he is even intentionally nefarious in his actions, he just doesn’t even realize his own nonsense. |
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Quoted: That's socialization, which is inculcating behaviors and beliefs that will equip a child to be healthy, happy, and have a successful and productive life. Grooming is psychological manipulation and gaslighting that leaves someone vulnerable to abuse, for example Desmond Is (not) Amazing was groomed to be a 10 year old bachi bazi dancing suggestively for adult men while performatively sniffing ketamine. 
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