I will never sell my P226..ever. I put the E2 grips on and that was the last change I'll ever make. Best handgun I've ever had.

I do think the All-German made Sigs were the best, but I would still call Sig Sauer tier 1.

I have I think 6 older SIGs and don't think new ones are mechanically worse but there are a few things I don't like about new/prefer the old:

 Rails. I don't want,need or like rails.
 Finish: The old West German guns look beat to hell in no time flat but their new strangely textured silver finish and laser engraving looks cheap and well,just downright crappy.I think the American finished ones of ~ decade ago were the nicest finished and most durable.  


 I have around 30k rounds through my old stamped, W German 226 and shoot it better than anything I've ever laid hands on. It's a FANTASTIC gun. It's ugly,it rattles,it works flawlessly.

The stamped slide sigs were lighter and less top heavy too.

Mine is of overall good quality and fit, but it is very ammo sensitive.



 

Sig still makes good pistols.  A small percentage of them have problems.

If you have one that doesn't run well, sell it for a small loss and buy another.  Sigs still have some resale value, unlike a lot of other guns.

I love my 1993



this thread needs SIG pron







 

Sig quality definitely decreased, but who's didn't..

I have owned 4 sigs from 10 years old to 2010 production (239-.40, 250, 239-9mm, 229)
All worked flawlessly

It's one thing to say that quality decreased for certain manufacturers over the latter half of the 20th century.  That's happened, and it's unfortunately understandable for the largest gun makers out there.

But Sig pursued a strategy of market share over everything else, and they managed to ditch their quality within a span of two or three years.  I've literally had one Sig sales rep (who was later fired for some odd reason) flat-out tell me that the reason the 556 models shipped with fragile furniture and Chinese optics was because quote, "Sig just wants the market share, that's all.  If we made it properly it would cost more, and that's unacceptable because they figure the consumer won't care."  When employees openly acknowledge that fact, there's something deeply flawed with the management.  For a company like Taurus, the motto "Our Customer Is Our Quality Control Department" may be fine, but no one expects Taurus to produce a high-quality firearm either, and they don't promote their products as leaders within the law enforcement / military community.  It's telling to me that of the Sig employees I've dealt with on a business level, they've consistently either exhibited signs of extreme frustration or they were outright assholes.  Employee morale and behavior is symptomatic of larger corporate culture, and it certainly fits in with the rest of the picture being painted by Sig.

You just attempted to polish shit. If you don't count the 250 and the Mosquito then you are guilty of the same BS as Obama's job numbers, cherry picking and changing the metrics.

I have a two year old 226 that has never had a malfunction.

If SIGs are "Tier 2" pistols now, you better let the majority of the "Tier 1" SOF (NSW, British SAS & SBS, Canada's JTF-2, Polish GROM, NZ SAS, and certain German SF units, just to name a few) around the world know that they are doing it wrong.

In 13 years of carrying SIGs at work and for CCW's, I have never had a problem (except for the Mosquito which isn't even made by SIG). I've never had a part break, never lost a grip screw and I can't remember a malfunction that wasn't caused by me for training purposes. In my experience, Glocks and M&P's have proven to be less reliable than the Classic SIG series, new or old. The only problems with SIGs that I have seen myself are a Chiefs P226 that was bone dry and hadn't been fired for a year, 2 broken extractors on P220's, and 2 early P226 .40's barrels bulged from squib loads. I have seen several Glocks break their frame rails off, malfunction with lights, and have personally witnessed 2 "kabooms." About 2 weeks ago when I was qualifying, someone brought out a new Gen3 G27 to qual with. It had around 2-3 malfunctions per magazine. We each shot it (blaming the shooter) and it malfunctioned the same with us. I personally owned a G19 that was the biggest POS service pistol that I have ever had. I've never had a more unreliable pistol, and to just get it on paper, the Trijicons had to be moved so far to the right that they were almost coming off of the slide. I also seen several M&P malfunctions that me say "WTF." The malfunctions/failures would have taken the weapon out of the fight.

For some reason, people talk like the old "German" SIGs are the holy grail. Not true. I have said it over and over, and so has Todd Green (former employee at SIG) and a Navy SEAL on another forum (that has been issued old and new SIGs), that the new SIGs are MUCH better "hard use" pistols than the old stamped slide models. The newer stainless steel slide models are less maintenance, have better finishes, are more durable, and are less prone to rust. Todd Green stated that he has seen several SIGs go 100k+ round, but they were all the stainless steel slide models.  

I currently have 6 SIGs and have had 4 others before. None of them have given me trouble. The P226R (Exeter made) that I use for work has 25k+ rounds through it with zero problems. I have 2 P239 9mm's that were made in late 2010. Neither have given me trouble. I like the US made P239's so much that my German P225 and P228 have become safe queens. From what I have seen at work and training, the only weapon that is as or more reliable than a Classic SIG is an H&K. H&K makes great weapons also. I can carry an issued G17 or G22 if I wanted to, but my SIGs and those that some  of my co-workers carry have proven to me to be more reliable than the other popular service pistols (Glock, M&P, XD etc).

Does SIG have some problems? Probably, but so does every other manufacture. IMO, all of the SIG bashing is overblown errornet crap.

Their Sigs aren't coming from Exeter.

I hate to say it, but your sample size is flawed, and you're simply not seeing what others are experiencing.

The stainless steel guns may indeed be better in some metallurgical sense (although I've heard of stamped guns lasting just as long), but the point isn't the underlying design, it's the execution of the weapon.

Talk to dealers and/or agency armorers, people who aren't just trying two or three of the best current-production guns, but rather people who are seeing hundreds of them each year.  Look at the entire product line, and not just the legacy models that have a solid track record that it'll take Sig longer to screw up.

I don't own a Glock, nor do I have any particular affinity for the platform, but I have far more faith that if I sell one, it's not going to come back for warranty work, have parts broken on it out-of-the-box, or come apart within a few hundred rounds.  If you talk to dealers who handle large volumes of firearms, there are certain trends that start to stand out from the noise.  A friend of mine just had his 229 duty gun's takendown lever come apart on him, and Sig charged $20 for a replacement..for something that shouldn't have happened in the first place, nor should it have cost anything to fix.

Take it for what it's worth, but if the trend continues you'll eventually run into these issues the hard way.

I have a 7 or 8 year old 226, .40.


I love it, runs like a top. I have shot thousands of rounds through it and the only issue I have had was with one box of range ammo where almost every round failed to go into battery. I took the cases home as well as the few I saved. They were way out of spec. A little too long, but way too over sized. Only issue I have had with the gun.


As for the mags, the ones that came with the gun run flawlessly. I did buy a +2 mag and once, in a class, I drove the mag home and the plastic bottom slipped of and the spring went flying! Rounds just spilled out on the ground. I have yet to be able to duplicate it, but the mag is now sitting on a shelf, only to be used as a range gun as it has proven that I cannot trust my life to it.


Biggest problem with the gun? I take it to classes and don't want to roll around on the ground with a gun that cost a weeks pay sitting on my hip getting all fucked up.! So, I bought a Glock.

I have a  early Sig 1911!
Extremely tight, shoots great.
I've got a 226 Equinox in 9MM, shoots good, no problems.
I've owned P220's, P229's, P228s.
All worked good.
I always question more the shooter than the gun in these internet stories.

I don't count the Mosquito as well,it ain't made by SIG. It is entirely their fault that they didn't test them enough to realize that such a gun would significantly hurt their reputation as well as being counter productive.


Let's see: we shall supply a new shooter with a gun that is more expensive than a Mk II,Buckmark,22A etc but is far less reliable...that's the way to make sure he/she will want to buy a centerfire SIG for their next gun.


 I do realize that they saw how fast the P22 Walther was flying off the shelves and felt the need to counter it. I'm guilty of buying the Walther when it first came out for most of the same "oh,it's cute and cool" reasons people would want the Mosquito but those things should also be $200 guns,though I realize why they wouldn't want to sell them in the same $ range as Hi Point etc.  I also bought a GSG-5 that really isn't a whole bunch of gun for the $ once the "ooh,it looks cool" wears off but I've learned my lesson: no more airsoft .22's.


  I have no experience at all with the 250 but lots of companies have good ideas that end up being turkeys so I will give them this one.

  OK,old SIGs:

 

 but when it comes to new SIGs,gotta say...the 238 works fine and dandy but I would tell most people "save a few bucks and get a PPS,it's scarcely any bigger,much easier to shoot and I've got more faith in the 9mm". However,I will say that if you take your time,the thing is scarily accurate for being such a tiny gun. If I concentrate,it will shoot amazingly small groups but uh,that's not really what the thing was made for. I wouldn't actively talk anyone out of buying one or any other new SIG though,other than tell any new shooter that there are MUCH better choices than a Mosquito (  or P22 ) out there.

 

Naval Special Warfare's SIG P226's and P239's are made in Exeter. It doesnt matter where the SIG is made anyway, according to Todd Green, the guns made in Exeter and Germany use the same parts.

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It matters, because Exeter can turn gold into shit.



The P226 Navy is from Exeter, befitting the first of a millionty models-of-the-month from Sigarms. Sig USA. Sig-Sauer US, whatever. But I don't know what the rollmarks say on actual USN Sigs. If only that great big SEAL pic thread didn't die...



Regardless, I should hope that even Exeter can't fuck up a good, simple P226. But the P226 Equinox Turbo Ninja Seal Warfighters Carry edition? You bet it's full of AIDS.

I hate to say it, but my sample size is probably larger than 95% of the folks in this thread. I do see hundreds of guns a year at work/training, and I'm just reporting what I have seen. Also, I am good friends with an armorer at a medium sized agency that used to allow pretty much everything (HK, SIG, Glock, XD's, M&P's, Gen 3 Smiths, Beretta and 1911's) until recently. They changed policy and now all that the new hires can carry are Glocks, M&P's and Classic P22X SIGs in 9, .40 and .45. If he had seen the supposed "mass problems" that the errornet reports, they would have disco'd the SIGs too.

Sorry to hear about your friends take down lever ( SIG had a bad batch), but shit breaks, and I have seen a lot more parts break on the new plastic wonders than I have ever seen on Classic SIGs. Does that make Glocks and M&P's bad weapons? Nope, they are man made and shit happens.

When a veteran SEAL has used both the stainless slide version and the old stamped models in combat, has shot hundreds of thousands of rounds out of them in training, and he says that the SS models are better, that's called a clue. Also, when Todd Green (former employee who has nothing to gain by saying this) has said that he wouldn't buy a stamped slide P22X because the newer SS models are better hard use guns, have better finishes and are more durable, that's also called a clue.

I'm not saying that SIGs are perfect and never have issues, because they do, but so does every other manufacture, including HK.

My friend has one. It has at least 3 failures per magazine unless he's running a suppressor on it. For some reason it runs great when it has a can on it...

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Took an armorers course at sig acadamey a year and a half ago and asked about the misquito . The guy was hesitant to answer but ended up saying that they had german spec chambers that are tighter than SAMMI specs.

If your problems are failure to feed and/or eject try polishing the chamber and then play with a bunch of different ammo untill you find which stuff it likes better

I've had an entire batch of 556 rifles arrive from the factory missing rear sights.  One Sig rep denied that such a thing could possibly happen, that there were no infidels anywhere within the city...  Another told me that they'd simply run out of sights, and decided to ship them without sights anyways: "If the customer wants a set of sights they can always call us up and order some".  I saw one 522 come straight out of the (pristine) box with the pistol grip snapped cleanly off (a non-detachable part moulded into the receiver) and without receiver takedown pins.  Spotted a Mosquito that was returned from repairs at the factory with two front sights in a row (they decided to install an extra one into the front of the slide even though it was an extended-slide model with a barrel-mounted endcap/sight).  One friend of mine bought a P250 in 9mm, ran 500 rounds in the first range outing, and promptly sent it back because the frame melted under the heat.  My 556 shipped from the factory with shattered handguards that fell off of the rifle when the box was opened.  I've had at least half a dozen 556 rifles show up from brand new from the factory with the gas plugs installed incorrectly, turning the rifle into a single-shot.

If those are the most obvious quality-control issues that can be seen from just a cursory examination of the firearm, then what else is being missed, omitted, or performed incorrectly?  This isn't touching on reliability or functioning problems, just outright QC flaws.  HK may make mistakes, but I can't recall ever finding one broken right out of the box, or missing components from the factory.

in what way?  My SP2340 has a flawless (after break-in) 10k+ round count. Metal Sig frames are expensive to manufacture, the difference in price is due to manufacturing cost of polymer vs. alloy/CNC...  Never had any problems with 10 rnd or LE mags coming apart as described, I would have to see pics of this to believe it.

 

 I have a Swiss framed early 2340 and the thing is a gem. It's got the BEST DA/SA trigger of any gun I have ever shot.It'd a damn good gun.

I'm very happy with my newer Sigs.  My Sig Pro and my X-Five have both exceeded my expectations.  

The X-Five is easily the best shooting pistol (for me) that I have ever shot.  

Say what you want about them on the internet (I'm not at all brand loyal), but I'll continue to buy them based on my personal experience.

Does anybody on this website actually know what tier I or tier II actually means?

A tier I supplier is not necessarily a higher quality supplier than a tier II.  A tier I supplier supplies directly to the manufacturer.  A tier II supplier supplies a tier 1 supplier.  Example:  GE supplies engines to Boeing.  GE is then a tier I supplier to Boeing.  Lets say that Anixter supplies some fasteners for the engine to GE.  That would make Anixter a tier II supplier to Boeing.

It's a play on the whole 'Tier 1 Operator' thing, not on the manufacturing world phrase.

Mine runs everything fine but Remingtons and Winchesters. The Rems seem to fte and the Wins are just downright unaccurate in it. I had to work on the gun a little to get to this point.

I think its more hit or miss then just as easy to say they are a tier anything. More misses in the last couple of years.

I have a bunch of Old Sig's and only 2 Sig's that are newer one is a 2010 and the other a 2009. Both are P229's one is a 9mm and the other a .40 S&W and they both function well. I run a Suppressor once in a while with the 9mm and also have no problems at all.

Personally being that I am from Germany I prefer the once marked as Made in W. Germany but other than that it is just a preference I do not see a problem with new Sig's. I am sure there are problems with them from time to time but this is the case with pretty much all Guns.

I have found this to be accurate via info on rimfirecentral. A little work on the chamber solved a lot. Also eliminating the lip at the feed ramp/chamber intersection eliminated a lot of ftf's. Work on the magazine followers helped also.

eta: My 89 226 runs like a scalded dog.

The most underrated pistol out there is the P2022. I so regret selling mine and will get another one once I get my Mom's gun set up for her.

I had the chance to extensively check out the SIG 238.......it was very disappointing.

My sig p226R .40 worked pretty well. Never had any problems, kept it clean and well lubed (used crap militec instead of grease). One stove pipe on the last day with 4400 rounds fired over 5 weeks.

Good gun, but I don't like it as much as my Glock.

In for S-1 accusing you of making shit up.

People started using tiers since the whole "chart" of ar15 manufactures came out..

If tier makes you rage, think of it being a B rated manufacturer, on an A-F scale

I have a P220 Compact SAO.  Maybe three years old?  Couple thousand rounds through it by now.  Absolutely reliable and crazy accurate.  I finally decided to put some empty brass in the magazine with live rounds so I could practice clearing malfunctions and the pistol chambered them without a hitch.  Only problem was the gun would go "click" on the empty cases instead of "bang" but a quick rack of the slide and the gun was back in business.  Just love it.

Same here, Gen. 1, version 2, swiss frame.  The only DA/SA trigger I would compare to it is a TX DPS P220 Police trade I shot a few years ago that had the crap shot out of it and sooo smooth.





 

But was it a Gambler's Edition P238?









At some point I expect Sig-Sauer of Germany to send a strike team to Exeter to shoot some fools...

If they are armed with Sig weapons with the same QC problems that others are reporting, not a lot to be concerned about.

They'll carry German-stamped Sigs. And not Gamblers editions or Equinoxs or Gold Editions or whatever the hell other insanity is going through Exeters mind these days...

I returned from the range this afternoon after firing the 3700th consecutive round right of of the box without a stoppage of any kind through this piece of crap.

This turd will put bullets into the same round hole all day at 10 yards and will function perfectly with all sorts of duty type ammunition as well as various FMJ range crap and try as I might, I cannot get this worthless pistol to suffer a stoppage even when I intentionally limp wrist it during extreme rapid fire.

This piece of total garbage set me back $849 at the gun show last August and I've seen them at them as low as $819.

I strongly recommend that people refrain from buying these outright pieces of shit; SIGs aren't worth a damn and the only fine guns available today are either made of plastic, or are masterpieces built on a century old design.

I own all sorts of pistols and have been shooting them hard for over 40 years and I make it a habit to go to the range no less than once a week, and usually more often.

Take it from me, late model SIGs are shit and to be avoided at all costs; if you read it on the Internet it must be true.

Congratualtions, yours isn't a steaming pile of shit, others have gotten them and not being one to go three round of fix this fucking gun with a manufacturer, I will buy other guns the next time I am in the market.

I already agreed that they are all pieces of shit because I didn't want to argue with some vulgar cretin on the Internet, or lock horns with some plastic gun fanboy or shill for another manufacturer.

I agree with you 100% SIGs are not for you and you should definitely buy something else if you buy a pistol.

That way you will ensure that you will never end up with a turd that needs to be sent back to the factory for aftermarket customer service.

Sig P220ST is the first handgun I ever purchased.  Don't know exactly how old it is, but it's a made here in NH one.  It was a range rental before I bought it and has thousands and thousands of rounds through it.  The slide catch notch is a little worn; it catches, but slamming a magazine in sends it forward without you having to hit the slide release.  Only other problem it's ever had was a broken slide release, repaired by Sig for free.

I would not hesitate to buy another/newer model.

You often hear more complaints and a product or company rather than praises. I still think that Sig is good to go in quality. As with every manufacturer trust, but verify by running a couple hundred rounds to be sure.



What I will legitimately criticize Sig for is that they have sullied their image by offering a ridiculous array of, "flavor of the month" Sigs. The Sig marketing strategy of today makes me think, "not sure if serious."



I still like the nostalgia of the older Sigs. It was a different time, different era in manufacturing and in global politics when my U-387 1989 West German Herndon VA P226 was made.

I own an older P220 and a P245. No problems with either.

I'm thinking about getting a SIG 1911. Anybody have experience with their 1911"s?

The first gen ones were pretty crummy.  2nd gen (and newer if they're up to that yet) are GTG.

Ask and ye shall receive (before you ask, I don't work for Sig. I did some work for them and they let me take some pix):

Sorry some are a little blurry, these are phone pix.

Just laying around the office....











A few folding stocks:



Barrel blanks ready to be machined.