I have more failures with my Glocks than my Sigs.

I have never had a failure with my P228 and it has upward of 5000 rounds thru it. My Glock 19, well lets just say it burps occasionally. My 1911's burp regulary.

Lumpy from what I have read in his posts is a die-hard 1911 fan.

Never had to "break in" either of my Beretta 92 or 96FS.  Ran like a top out the box, with factory rounds, factory reloads, and proper handloads.  Not a single malfunction for the ~2000 rounds I put through them. I know the shot count is pretty low, but do consider that it is considerably cost prohibitive to shoot centerfire these days and all I shoot now is birdshot and 22LR in competitions

That said, I've read many threads talking about the QC of Sig, but never experienced any of with their older centerfire pistols, but seen their 22LR P226 *probably made by Umerax or something, but still a Sig Product*, jam on every 2-3 rounds, no matter what brand of ammo I used, no matter which of the two recoil springs I used.  Also, not a fan of the slow and cumbersome to reload Sig 522 LR rifle I seen an appleseed.  The shooter shot well, but the ridiculous 4-step reload is pretty damn ridiculous.  Not impressed at all

With the info and input I read here, and also hearing about the poor ethical practices done by the CEOs, needless to say, I have no room in my collection or tool box for a Sig Product

I have several older Sigs I no longer shoot very much.
Simply because I'll not be able to replace them with the same great quality if I wear them out.
You find a West German Sig with a low round count, you'd better jump on it if it's a good price.
There is no finer semi auto handgun than the early Sig Classic P series handguns.
ETA Both of my boys have West German 226s.
Both have seen a lot of rounds down the pipe. One was carried in Iraq on my boy's first tour.
Neither one has ever had a hiccup with the Sigs, no matter what they shot out of them.
I never would have given those guns to my boys to carry if I hadn't had absolute faith in them.
That said, I wouldn't buy one of current manufacture.

OP... have you learned nothing from the internet?  Anything that was in production 10-20 years ago... was better 10-20 years ago.  

 DanO

I have had/seen more failures with Sigs (new) than Glocks (new/old).

I would not say tier two, but they are parked on the hill facing downward and gunning the gas IMHO.

I own 12 of them not one has had an issue....

My only experiene with Sig's are with a Mosquito.  Couldn't make it through a magazine without a failure to extract or light primer strikes.  It went back to Sig and it still had issues when it was returned to me.  That to me is not a mark of quality.

What is the Consensus on the Mosquitoes? I saw a Winter Camo one in Cabela's one time and thought it was cool.

They're shit



 

So I've heard.

I won't buy one.

They used to be nice guns, well made and advanced designs.

Problem being, they have sub-standard mag capacities, heavier than necessary, and substandard QC for what they charge.

I'd pay $450, but not $800 NIB, for a gun made back when they were reliable.

The Mosquito shouldn't carry the Sig-Sauer name, compared to a Mark III or Buckmark it s sad excuse for a plinker. Do not compare the Sig classic line to the Mosquito, the same goes for the SigPro.

My uncle had one, would have 2-3 jams per mag with good ammo.



 

this

and mine are not babied





 

I have 2.    Neither has any 'major' problems with jamming that couldn't be traced to cheap ammo.   They do like the CCI Mini-mags MUCH better than the federal bulk ammo I use with most other .22s.    Yes, they are not reliable in comparison to a self defense pistol, but for a pistol you can pick up for $225-$250 on the used market and they do have threaded barrels (doesn't help if you are in IL), they aren't bad pistols.     A Buckmark, Ruger Mk xx (II, III, 22/.45), etc. are (much) better pistols, but are more target guns (heavier, etc.) than 'fun' plinkers like the Mosquito.    

AFARR

Ahhh. The 1911.

When it absolutely, positively needs to be tinkered with every night.

I have 3 Sigs. 2 German and 1 US. The German 229 and 226 have been flawless.

My new 226 SRT E2 had issues with locking the slide.
I ditched the slim E2 grips and put standard grips and that kept my thumb off the slide stop.
I've had the weapon 3 months and put 600 rounds through it.
Zero malfunctions.
The new US sig seems to be on par with my old German Sigs.
They are GTG in my book.

We have 300 new Sigs and only 2 reall issues. 1 was a bad mag and then a 220 had to have it's extractor changed out.

Years of having Sigs it seems most issues have been with the 220.
220 seem to be mag picky.
One mag will work in one 220 but jam in another. Weird???

We also just traded our old 552 and 556 for the 516.
Very good trade.
The 516 have been excellent weapons so far.

The quality of the new Sigs seem to be on par with the old Sigs.
I'm not a fan of gas piston ARs but these have worked well so far.

Which firearms company didnt get a contract with a major government agency, and sent a letter our claiming they (the governemnt agency) put too much emphasis on reliability?

I can verify...  Mine won't even function properly with good ammo, in fact it's worse than with the weak spring and subsonics.  (I have the TB model for a suppressor)



Ruger is much better, I now have a 22/45 threaded barrel model, and it is FAR better than the Mosquito...





 

Yeah thought that might be the case to, already tried a different grip. The whole thing has me puzzled. The other guys ive talked to with the same problem have yet to get it figured out either. The gun otherwise ran find for several months prior to that.

Been carrying them on duty since '96 with no issues countless rounds through different Sig's... No issues whatsoever..

are you serious?  welcome to 1980's.

My sig 226 combat has not failed a single time, it currently has about 1500 rounds through it.

i was sort of nervous about buying a new sig, all the internet talk makes it seem like they are shit.

To be honest, its my favorite pistol.

I have owned several Sigs and still own a 226 and and a 239.  

The first generation of the Sig GSR had lots of major issues.  Friend owned own that had a crooked hammer!  

Had a Sig Trailside with numerous issues, eventually replaced by Sig.  (actually made by Hammerli for Sig)

Sig Mosquito is piece of shit for a .22 handgun.

Had a Sig P238 which had to go back to Sig twice.  Lots of problems with this model.

The Sig P250 has had major issues.

Sig had made and continues to make good quality firearms.  The problem with the current generation of new Sig designs is that the current Sig management is OK with releasing new designs and then letting the consumer basically beta test for them!  Not Ok, especially if the gun is depended on for home defense, ccw etc.!!!

Another case of internet bullshit.











 

It proves his gun broke. He offered no other argument.



Lighten up.





 

I have a 226 and a 232.  The only two Sigs I've ever owned.  Both required extensive break-in before they became reliable.  The 232 still fails to lock the slide back on occasion.

About the worst track record I've experienced with any maker.

I normaly use a P229 or a P226. I have shot thousands and thousands of rounds through them including many classes. I have had zero failures. I have seen many pistols fail in classes, including glocks and all the big names. No pistol is perfect and any person that belives that is crazy. So tell I see SIGs failing left and right with my own eyes in a class Im chalking this up to another case of internet horse shit. I feel I should add that I also use glocks, H&K and FN pistols. Im far from biased but I take what people on the net say with a grain of salt.

I was a huge Sig fan and still am for the older ones. But I have seen several new Sigs in the last few years that wouldn't run through a full mag without jamming, even shooting ball ammo.
I really think the problems started with the 229s and the extractor design back around 1998 or so.
Sig changed the extractor design for a deeper grip on the rim. The newer design had (has) 3 grooves cut on them.
I put one in my 229 40 cal and it works great.
But so did the older designed extractor.
I know one PD in Oklahoma, Stillwater PD, switched over to Sig 220s and had several frames crack on them. I think it was 7 out of 100 or so.
That PD no longer uses the Sig 220 and hasn't for the last decade if I remember right.
You may get a good one right straight out of the box that runs like a champ.
But like I said earlier, it's a crap shoot when it didn't use to be.

I've actually shot a Walther SP-22 and loved it.

Sell around 100 SIGs a year and have done so since 1997
since about 2006 the number of defective guns we have run across has went from maybe 1% to about 5% ( thats not including crap like P250s and mosquitos)



a marked increase and higher than any other quality service handgun we sell



The P238 and P290s seemed to have a abnormal amount of teething problems in the first few batches IMO too
 

Had a Sig Pro, I didn't like it, it had some issues.

I honestly don't know what to think, with everything I read on the internet.  

I have a P226R I bought in 2006 and only have a little over 3K rounds through but it has been flawless regardless of the ammo or the 8 magazines I have used. I used it in a 2 day class a few months ago and it worked great.

I have a P239 I bought last year with a lot fewer rounds through it but it has also been flawless so far.  

I had a Mosquito that was really disappointing. It was rare to get through a full 10-round magazine without an issue of some kind, regardless of trying various ammo and springs.

Like I said I have no doubt people have had problems with them, as do people with any brand. I have bought a 229,226, and a 220 all within the last 5 years. I have abused the shit out of them without a problem. Will one of them fail? Probably but unless its some horrible ,blow my hand off failure it wouldnt shake my trust in them enough for me to give up on them.

I'll start by saying that I'm a Sig fan. I currently own four and may be getting a fifth. That said, their quality does seem to be hit-or-miss.

Most recently, I bought a P220 Stainless Elite. Mine is flawless, but one of the other brand new ones  that I looked at had a big pit or crack in the frame.

Which Sig will get me that all important Tier I rating?

4 Sigs, no problems here. Stay away from the Mosquito or 250 and you will be OK. You get what you pay for.

Sig has made shit guns since they first started. DO NOT WANT

I have no doubts in what you say. Believe me, my Sigs are all damn fine guns or I wouldn't have them.
But I've seen some shit guns straight from the factory when I NEVER use to.
I've been shooting them for over 30  years. Including the first types - a Browning BDA in 45 in the late 70s.
My 229 is a mid 90s gun that I will gaurantee has caused a lot of people to buy Sigs after having shot it.
Buying a new one is a crap shoot. I came to that conclusion after the Stillwater PD had their problems and I heard some Oklahoma Highway Patrol complain about their 220s. Many of them dumped them and went to a Glock 21.
Then both the OHP and the Oklahoma Capitol Police went to the Sig 229 in 357.
I don't know how they've got along with those because my friend retired as the OHP armorer some years ago.
The problem from what I gather is weak springs for hot loads causing all kinds of crap happening.
From cracked frames to cracked slides, etc.
I just advise people to look for a West German or early model with the checkered grips.
The only problem I know that exists with them is the trigger return spring needing to be replaced from the L type to the C type.
I'm just like you. I'm not giving up on the Sigs I have now.
2 226s, one 229, one 239, and one 220. All of them are super handguns!

This.

A few years ago I bought a new P226 Navy. I joined the SigForum and looked at lots of stuff online about Sig products. There was a lot of talk about how the new Sigs were crap.

Me:

Shortly after that I was browsing my local fun shop and come across a West German produced 226 from he 70s for a good price, so I snapped it up. It was less accurate and had more tool marks than my Exeter made P226.

Me:

When they work right, they are excellent weapons.  Very accurate and nice clean breaking trigger.

The difference isn't just "accuracy" or "tool markings", it's a larger matter of quality control, manufacturing ideals, and corporate responsibility.  I'd wager that your accuracy difference probably had more to do with the trigger pull weight between the two than it did anything inherent in the barrel, slide, or frame.  As for tool marks, the original German Sigs weren't really the most gorgeous pistols ever made, but they were made right.  Sure, there are and were lemons from that time period, but there's a reason why people who have been extensively exposed to a wide range of modern handguns over the years tend to believe Sig has jumped the shark.

Find any major gun dealer who's stocked Sig products for at least five or ten years, and ask them off-the-record what they think of Sig as both a company and a product.  You won't find many fans within the industry in my experience.  I've had hours-long conversions with other dealers who simply wanted to vent about their experiences dealing with The Kids From Kimber.  Even the fanboy forums have finally reached the point where the hardcore fanatics are fed up with Sig's business practices.

Essentially a small group of executives have taken over Sig and run a long-term experiment to see what happens if you take an established high-end brand and boost profitability by cutting every corner possible within the product line and the company as a whole.  There's a reason why people were willing to pay those inflated prices for a handgun, and in the final analysis it really wasn't because of the name stamped on the slide, but rather the quality of the weapon and the knowledge that you were buying a piece of finely-engineered German craftsmanship.  Nowadays Sig actively promotes the fact that they "designed" one of their newest pistols by taking a hacksaw to a P229 (at least according to their article in Guns & Ammo) and throwing together a new gun in a few minutes out of some chopped-up pieces.  That anecdote alone explains far more about Sig's R&D efforts than even I would have feared, but it highlights their attitude that a brand-new-whizbang is more important than a tested, proven, reliable product that's going to work when someone needs it.

So what's actually wrong with the product?  Well, Sig has actively cut costs by switching to lower-quality gun cases, magazines, internal components, sights, grips, handguards, and accessories, all of which are sourced from cheap factories overseas (and that doesn't mean Europe).  Springs aren't to spec, pistols are poorly assembled, the cases are shoddier than they used to be a year or two back, weapons are shipped missing minor components like sights or takedown pins, and generally they just feel lacking.  Hand someone a top-of-the-line brand-new 556 rifle, and then show them a beat-up 20-year-old Swiss 551, and the difference is like comparing a Honda Civic to a Porsche 911: fit, finish, component quality, trigger pull, accuracy...no one who's tried both can even imagine that there's a contest between them.

Are you likely to have a problem if you buy a P226, 229, or 220?  Probably not, although even those have experienced a greater share of issues as of late.  The P250s, though, have had various problems throughout their production run, and the 290 is too new to know.  Anything other than a firearm that says Sig on it can safely be assumed to be junk of a quality to make Tapco look fairly decent in comparison.  If I buy a Hi-Point, I know it's going to be garbage, but most people expect to get something better than Taurus-level quality when they pay Sig-level prices.

Personally, I'm too fed up with the company to deal with them any more.  The P238 is a neat little concept, and at one point I wanted to buy one, but I simply don't trust anything they make any longer.  When you've seen so many issues on so many levels with a single company, all without explanation or apology, then you lose the ability to find reasons to care.  From sales reps who act like douchebags, to large quantities of products shipped out assembled incorrectly, to the utter joke of Sig-branded lights, lasers, holsters, sights, grips, etc, to their questionable business practices...I'm done with it.  Whenever I pick up a new Sig in my hand, the only impression that goes through me is one of disappointment and disgust, and on some level I simply expect the weapon to fail me.

The real shame about it, the reason so many people like myself are truly upset, is because corporate mismanagement created this situation out of a product line that was once amongst the finest in the world.  My P225 is hands-down the most reliable handgun I own, and my (extremely old, first-generation) 556 carbine is my go-to rifle because I know I can count on it to function every time, no matter what I feed it or how much abuse it sees.  Sig was once a great name, and perhaps it will be again, but before that day comes there needs to be a serious reckoning at the top levels of corporate.  The people responsible not only need to be fired and publicly shamed, but they should be sued for damages incurred to the company and the name.

the real shame is that the sig-pro has gotten lumped into the -250 saga.

I loved my sig-pro.

so, do I. They are are solid pistols, but I have seen countless people say "Dont touch a polymer sig" Well the Pro is the best buy for DA/SA pistol and its a miracle that that they opened the line back up.



 

That's something an end user doesn't see , and I would hope their LE shipped weapons receive a little better QC than I have seen on the civi side





the number of weapons I have seen from SIG that came out of the box with glaring defects is unacceptable


guns gritty as shit , missing components , had a couple that the slide LOCKED to the rear the first time the weapon was cleared and even a rubber mallet couldn't close it





Of the 2 dozen P290s we have sold 4 were returned to SIG for light firing pin hits





The P238 finally seems to be out of the teething stage


but remember the first batch we got ( I have related this story here before )


all 3 were pre sold  


Gun #1 was so rough/gritty and the trigger was atrocious  I would have been embarrassed to hand it to a customer


Gun #2 was gritty but useable


Gun #3 was smooth as silk but the P238 on the slide was double stamped and looked like ass
and yeah WTF is up with the mags I ordered a bunch for my P226 and got fucking MAC GAR sure MEC GAR is a decent mag but I am not paying an extra 20% to get um in a SIG box ( I started a bitch thread in the SIG forum here about it )


I guess they have now switched to Czechmate
Sure they are not all bad



probably 95% of them are fine but it used to be 99.9% were fine





SIG needs to spend less time being like Kimber thinking up goofy names for 500 versions of the same gun with different finishes,sights and grips  


P229 Super Special Ops Dark Elite Equinox Tactical E2





and instead fix their fucked up corporate culture and QC