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Quoted: Maybe. But, no, there's no "clearly" in the blacks. Not with a 240p manipulation of a 30fps video that was DCT in x,y and further compressed in t before even written to file, let alone all of the other steps to get it to the X video. Quoted: Quoted: Absolutely Watch this one at 0.25x speed. You can definitely see the slide coming back. You can also hear the shot at the same time. I watched it earlier and thought it was so. After watching it at .25x, it's clear. And the agent is also clearly holding the gun way down on the grip, below the trigger guard.
Based off of visuals alone it is iffy as to whether it is the gun firing or just a convenient series of artifacts/visual noise in the video but the sound of a shot occurs at the same time as something appears to happen with the gun |
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Quoted: Well a lot of people were dumping 320s cheap. Maybe Pretti was one of the buyers. YMMV tho, I realize I'm basing my takes off anecdotal evidence. Don't care. |
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Quoted: Even still, why the F would anyone even buy that junk after all the controversy? Makes more sense to me that he went all-in on that build and realized he couldn't unload it unless he gave it away. May as well just keep it, but ain't no way in hell I'd have carried it. YMMV tho, I realize I'm basing my takes off anecdotal evidence. Don't care. Quoted: Quoted: Well a lot of people were dumping 320s cheap. Maybe Pretti was one of the buyers. YMMV tho, I realize I'm basing my takes off anecdotal evidence. Don't care. Not everyone does their research. He might have just walked into a gun store that had them on blowout and didn't know why they were cheap or he may have had it for a while and never knew they had issues. |
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Quoted: I'm gonna say not a Sigcident. If that gun was fired, Trump, Bondi, Noem, and the others would have been quick to point out that it was fired. The fact that they never said dead nurse fired a shot it telling. No question that Pretti did not fire the gun. The UD, if that's what happened, may have occurred while the gray coat guy was carrying the pistol away. |
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Quoted: IDK, ... after watching several of these enhanced videos for the umpteenth time, it looks like either the gun "went off" in the BP officer's hand as he was moving back from the deaded guy (i.e., Sig 320-style "spontaneous" discharge) or perhaps his finger hit the trigger inadvertently as he was moving away, causing the discharge. Either way, now I'm wondering if that sound of the gun firing created a mistaken belief in the shooting officer's mind that a gunshot had been fired by the legally-armed deaded guy, not realizing it was the Sig ND-ing in the hand of a fellow officer (or even caused by him). If so, then the legal question regarding this particular officer's use of deadly force becomes whether that mistake was objectively reasonable. IOW, whether an objectively reasonable officer, standing in that same position (same shoes) as the shooting officer, could have reasonably thought he was being fired at? Typically, in federal Sec. 1983 lawsuits against cops for improper DF, the question of "reasonable but mistaken belief" is one for the jury to decide, which here would mean a jury composed of Minnesota residents. Sounds an awful lot like the acorn incident. IIRC, the cops shot into a car where a suspect was in custody and, fortunately missed hitting him/her. How did that one ever shake out? |
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Quoted: and given the actual real world time frame....a couple seconds went by...long enough to react and draw a pistol....that's likely what happened. I'm not convinced the suspects gun is the one that went off first...but given the situation I can understand the contagious fire. There should be a spent casing and hole in the street if that's what happened. Seems like it would be easy to determine. Quoted: Quoted: IDK, ... after watching several of these enhanced videos for the umpteenth time, it looks like either the gun "went off" in the BP officer's hand as he was moving back from the deaded guy (i.e., Sig 320-style "spontaneous" discharge) or perhaps his finger hit the trigger inadvertently as he was moving away, causing the discharge. Either way, now I'm wondering if that sound of the gun firing created a mistaken belief in the shooting officer's mind that a gunshot had been fired by the legally-armed deaded guy, not realizing that it was the Sig ND-ing in the hand of a fellow officer (or even caused by him). If so, then the legal question regarding this particular officer's use of deadly force becomes whether that mistake was objectively reasonable. IOW, whether an objectively reasonable officer, standing in that same position (same shoes) as the shooting officer, would've reasonable thought he was being fired at? Typically, in federal Sec. 1983 lawsuits against cops for improper DF, the question of "reasonable but mistaken belief" is one for the jury to decide, which here would mean a jury composed of Minnesota residents. There should be a spent casing and hole in the street if that's what happened. Seems like it would be easy to determine. Fed saying that MPD came in and fucked up the scene may have complicated things. |
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Quoted: Based off of visuals alone it is iffy as to whether it is the gun firing or just a convenient series of artifacts/visual noise in the video but the sound of a shot occurs at the same time as something appears to happen with the gun Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Absolutely Watch this one at 0.25x speed. You can definitely see the slide coming back. You can also hear the shot at the same time. I watched it earlier and thought it was so. After watching it at .25x, it's clear. And the agent is also clearly holding the gun way down on the grip, below the trigger guard.
Based off of visuals alone it is iffy as to whether it is the gun firing or just a convenient series of artifacts/visual noise in the video but the sound of a shot occurs at the same time as something appears to happen with the gun The sound, the arm movement subsequent, the muzzle oddly sweeping bystanders, yeah, the locus of points is that gun fired. Showing that a finger wasn't in the trigger guard, though? That's a level of detail that gets DCT'd away. Knees are completely squared, the trigger guard disappears in one frame, reappears in others, all sort of stuff. LE will be all like, "You can't see him pulling the trigger, therefore he didn't" but that's not real life. Real life is LE, the State, saying whatever they need to say. If LE had been shot, and this video was the only evidence of who shot the cop, you'd be a fool to think the Government doesn't have a rebuttal expert witness ready to come in and walk through the whole video compression thing to prove to a jury that just because the video doesn't show xyz, that doesn't mean xzy didn't happen. |
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Quoted: The sound, the arm movement subsequent, the muzzle oddly sweeping bystanders, yeah, the locus of points is that gun fired. Showing that a finger wasn't in the trigger guard, though? That's a level of detail that gets DCT'd away. Knees are completely squared, the trigger guard disappears in one frame, reappears in others, all sort of stuff. LE will be all like, "You can't see him pulling the trigger, therefore he didn't" but that's not real life. Real life is LE, the State, saying whatever they need to say. If LE had been shot, and this video was the only evidence of who shot the cop, you'd be a fool to think the Government doesn't have a rebuttal expert witness ready to come in and walk through the whole video compression thing to prove to a jury that just because the video doesn't show xyz, that doesn't mean xzy didn't happen. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Absolutely Watch this one at 0.25x speed. You can definitely see the slide coming back. You can also hear the shot at the same time. I watched it earlier and thought it was so. After watching it at .25x, it's clear. And the agent is also clearly holding the gun way down on the grip, below the trigger guard.
Based off of visuals alone it is iffy as to whether it is the gun firing or just a convenient series of artifacts/visual noise in the video but the sound of a shot occurs at the same time as something appears to happen with the gun The sound, the arm movement subsequent, the muzzle oddly sweeping bystanders, yeah, the locus of points is that gun fired. Showing that a finger wasn't in the trigger guard, though? That's a level of detail that gets DCT'd away. Knees are completely squared, the trigger guard disappears in one frame, reappears in others, all sort of stuff. LE will be all like, "You can't see him pulling the trigger, therefore he didn't" but that's not real life. Real life is LE, the State, saying whatever they need to say. If LE had been shot, and this video was the only evidence of who shot the cop, you'd be a fool to think the Government doesn't have a rebuttal expert witness ready to come in and walk through the whole video compression thing to prove to a jury that just because the video doesn't show xyz, that doesn't mean xzy didn't happen. The video is crappy enough that we can't be 100% sure the gun discharged, much less that the trigger guard was 100% clear. If we try to chase absolutes, we'll come up empty handed. I'm 80-something percent sure the gun fired. I'm 80-something percent sure the agent was holding the pistol below the trigger guard. But I keep circling back to this:  Trump suddenly being aware of the P320's history is one piece of this quote. But I find "It's a gun that goes off when people don't know it" to be a curious statement. That could just be Trump speak, and I'm reading into something that isn't there. Or, Trump could have been making a redundant statement about the UD issue. Or, maybe Trump is telling us that the agent with the confiscated P320 didn't know it discharged in the chaos of the moment. I'm not sure how much it matters, but it could be an indication of what Trump is hearing from his people and what direction the investigation is going. |
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Quoted: The video is crappy enough that we can't be 100% sure the gun discharged, much less that the trigger guard was 100% clear. If we try to chase absolutes, we'll come up empty handed. I'm 80-something percent sure the gun fired. I'm 80-something percent sure the agent was holding the pistol below the trigger guard. But I keep circling back to this: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/G_jJsQ4WsAAk_lZ?format=jpg&name=small Trump suddenly being aware of the P320's history is one piece of this quote. But I find "It's a gun that goes off when people don't know it" to be a curious statement. That could just be Trump speak, and I'm reading into something that isn't there. Or, Trump could have been making a redundant statement about the UD issue. Or, maybe Trump is telling us that the agent with the confiscated P320 didn't know it discharged in the chaos of the moment. I'm not sure how much it matters, but it could be an indication of what Trump is hearing from his people and what direction the investigation is going. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Absolutely Watch this one at 0.25x speed. You can definitely see the slide coming back. You can also hear the shot at the same time. I watched it earlier and thought it was so. After watching it at .25x, it's clear. And the agent is also clearly holding the gun way down on the grip, below the trigger guard.
Based off of visuals alone it is iffy as to whether it is the gun firing or just a convenient series of artifacts/visual noise in the video but the sound of a shot occurs at the same time as something appears to happen with the gun The sound, the arm movement subsequent, the muzzle oddly sweeping bystanders, yeah, the locus of points is that gun fired. Showing that a finger wasn't in the trigger guard, though? That's a level of detail that gets DCT'd away. Knees are completely squared, the trigger guard disappears in one frame, reappears in others, all sort of stuff. LE will be all like, "You can't see him pulling the trigger, therefore he didn't" but that's not real life. Real life is LE, the State, saying whatever they need to say. If LE had been shot, and this video was the only evidence of who shot the cop, you'd be a fool to think the Government doesn't have a rebuttal expert witness ready to come in and walk through the whole video compression thing to prove to a jury that just because the video doesn't show xyz, that doesn't mean xzy didn't happen. The video is crappy enough that we can't be 100% sure the gun discharged, much less that the trigger guard was 100% clear. If we try to chase absolutes, we'll come up empty handed. I'm 80-something percent sure the gun fired. I'm 80-something percent sure the agent was holding the pistol below the trigger guard. But I keep circling back to this: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/G_jJsQ4WsAAk_lZ?format=jpg&name=small Trump suddenly being aware of the P320's history is one piece of this quote. But I find "It's a gun that goes off when people don't know it" to be a curious statement. That could just be Trump speak, and I'm reading into something that isn't there. Or, Trump could have been making a redundant statement about the UD issue. Or, maybe Trump is telling us that the agent with the confiscated P320 didn't know it discharged in the chaos of the moment. I'm not sure how much it matters, but it could be an indication of what Trump is hearing from his people and what direction the investigation is going. The preponderance of the evidence points to all of this. Hence this thread. I will say this, as someone who works with various tactical LE teams daily in my professional life… When they are handling guns that are found as evidence, or taken off a subject now in custody, I’ve always seen them handle it like how it appears the “gray coat” agent was handling it. IE, fingers encircling the grip below the trigger guard, rather than with the index finger straight and along the frame how one would normally handle one’s own weapon. I’m not sure why, I never asked, it’s just an observation. |
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Quoted: Even still, why the F would anyone even buy that junk after all the controversy? Makes more sense to me that he went all-in on that build and realized he couldn't unload it unless he gave it away. May as well just keep it, but ain't no way in hell I'd have carried it. YMMV tho, I realize I'm basing my takes off anecdotal evidence. Don't care. Quoted: Quoted: Well a lot of people were dumping 320s cheap. Maybe Pretti was one of the buyers. YMMV tho, I realize I'm basing my takes off anecdotal evidence. Don't care. Probably not so much of a "build", as it appears to be a P320 AXG Combat from SIG Custom Works with aftermarket grips. https://www.sigsauer.com/p320-axg-combat.html The pistol comes with 3 21 round magazines. Current price on Guns.com is $1199.99. Other than being a 320, nice pistol IMO. |
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Quoted: The video is crappy enough that we can't be 100% sure the gun discharged, much less that the trigger guard was 100% clear. If we try to chase absolutes, we'll come up empty handed. I'm 80-something percent sure the gun fired. I'm 80-something percent sure the agent was holding the pistol below the trigger guard. But I keep circling back to this: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/G_jJsQ4WsAAk_lZ?format=jpg&name=small Trump suddenly being aware of the P320's history is one piece of this quote. But I find "It's a gun that goes off when people don't know it" to be a curious statement. That could just be Trump speak, and I'm reading into something that isn't there. Or, Trump could have been making a redundant statement about the UD issue. Or, maybe Trump is telling us that the agent with the confiscated P320 didn't know it discharged in the chaos of the moment. I'm not sure how much it matters, but it could be an indication of what Trump is hearing from his people and what direction the investigation is going. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Absolutely Watch this one at 0.25x speed. You can definitely see the slide coming back. You can also hear the shot at the same time. I watched it earlier and thought it was so. After watching it at .25x, it's clear. And the agent is also clearly holding the gun way down on the grip, below the trigger guard.
Based off of visuals alone it is iffy as to whether it is the gun firing or just a convenient series of artifacts/visual noise in the video but the sound of a shot occurs at the same time as something appears to happen with the gun The sound, the arm movement subsequent, the muzzle oddly sweeping bystanders, yeah, the locus of points is that gun fired. Showing that a finger wasn't in the trigger guard, though? That's a level of detail that gets DCT'd away. Knees are completely squared, the trigger guard disappears in one frame, reappears in others, all sort of stuff. LE will be all like, "You can't see him pulling the trigger, therefore he didn't" but that's not real life. Real life is LE, the State, saying whatever they need to say. If LE had been shot, and this video was the only evidence of who shot the cop, you'd be a fool to think the Government doesn't have a rebuttal expert witness ready to come in and walk through the whole video compression thing to prove to a jury that just because the video doesn't show xyz, that doesn't mean xzy didn't happen. The video is crappy enough that we can't be 100% sure the gun discharged, much less that the trigger guard was 100% clear. If we try to chase absolutes, we'll come up empty handed. I'm 80-something percent sure the gun fired. I'm 80-something percent sure the agent was holding the pistol below the trigger guard. But I keep circling back to this: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/G_jJsQ4WsAAk_lZ?format=jpg&name=small Trump suddenly being aware of the P320's history is one piece of this quote. But I find "It's a gun that goes off when people don't know it" to be a curious statement. That could just be Trump speak, and I'm reading into something that isn't there. Or, Trump could have been making a redundant statement about the UD issue. Or, maybe Trump is telling us that the agent with the confiscated P320 didn't know it discharged in the chaos of the moment. I'm not sure how much it matters, but it could be an indication of what Trump is hearing from his people and what direction the investigation is going. That's more deflection by this admin. If that gun fired, it's almost a certainty that the agent actuated the trigger, albeit inadvertently. At least one other agent was applauding, clapping during the gunfire. |
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Quoted: The video is crappy enough that we can't be 100% sure the gun discharged, much less that the trigger guard was 100% clear. If we try to chase absolutes, we'll come up empty handed. I'm 80-something percent sure the gun fired. I'm 80-something percent sure the agent was holding the pistol below the trigger guard. But I keep circling back to this: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/G_jJsQ4WsAAk_lZ?format=jpg&name=small Trump suddenly being aware of the P320's history is one piece of this quote. But I find "It's a gun that goes off when people don't know it" to be a curious statement. That could just be Trump speak, and I'm reading into something that isn't there. Or, Trump could have been making a redundant statement about the UD issue. Or, maybe Trump is telling us that the agent with the confiscated P320 didn't know it discharged in the chaos of the moment. I'm not sure how much it matters, but it could be an indication of what Trump is hearing from his people and what direction the investigation is going. So given the video, the sound, the weave by Trump and the reaction of the other officers....I'm leaning towards the gun went off, it's up to Sig to prove the officer didn't pull the trigger at this point. |
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Quoted: The preponderance of the evidence points to all of this. Hence this thread. I will say this, as someone who works with various tactical LE teams daily in my professional life When they are handling guns that are found as evidence, or taken off a subject now in custody, I've always seen them handle it like how it appears the "gray coat" agent was handling it. IE, fingers encircling the grip below the trigger guard, rather than with the index finger straight and along the frame how one would normally handle one's own weapon. I'm not sure why, I never asked, it's just an observation. |
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Quoted: Index on the slide is the safe position when you might have to use it soon. Nobody is using a suspects pistol unless things have gone horribly awry. So, use a different grip and avoid the muscle memory? I don’t think it was the sig that went off, I think it was the agent that stood up after the other agent disarmed the guy. Daily Mail had a pretty good video of the event and that’s my take. ETA quoted the wrong comment |
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Quoted: Even still, why the F would anyone even buy that junk after all the controversy? Makes more sense to me that he went all-in on that build and realized he couldn't unload it unless he gave it away. May as well just keep it, but ain't no way in hell I'd have carried it. YMMV tho, I realize I'm basing my takes off anecdotal evidence. Don't care. Quoted: Quoted: Well a lot of people were dumping 320s cheap. Maybe Pretti was one of the buyers. YMMV tho, I realize I'm basing my takes off anecdotal evidence. Don't care. agree. its crazy after years of controversy and practically a HUNDRED other options -- he had a 320. it HAD to be a 320?? wild. |
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I think when Pretti was disarmed by ICE, the Sig 320 just went off, and once that shot was fired, the balloon went up and all hell broke loose. This must have been under discussion at the highest levels. I actually heard Trump say this, then the story went away: ***************** 'I don’t like any shooting. I don’t like it,' the president said. 'But I don’t like it when somebody goes into a protest and he’s got a very powerful, fully loaded gun with two magazines loaded up with bullets also. That doesn’t play good either.' He claimed Pretti was carrying a 'very dangerous gun, a dangerous and unpredictable gun,' adding: 'It’s a gun that goes off when people don’t know it.' ******************* https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15497725/Trump-verge-backing-immigration-protesters-armed-men-seen-streets-Minneapolis-Alex-Pretti-shooting.html Trump would not have known that about the 320 unless he had been privy to knowledgeable people discussing the matter. |
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Quoted: That's more deflection by this admin. If that gun fired, it's almost a certainty that the agent actuated the trigger, albeit inadvertently. At least one other agent was applauding, clapping during the gunfire. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Absolutely Watch this one at 0.25x speed. You can definitely see the slide coming back. You can also hear the shot at the same time. I watched it earlier and thought it was so. After watching it at .25x, it's clear. And the agent is also clearly holding the gun way down on the grip, below the trigger guard.
Based off of visuals alone it is iffy as to whether it is the gun firing or just a convenient series of artifacts/visual noise in the video but the sound of a shot occurs at the same time as something appears to happen with the gun The sound, the arm movement subsequent, the muzzle oddly sweeping bystanders, yeah, the locus of points is that gun fired. Showing that a finger wasn't in the trigger guard, though? That's a level of detail that gets DCT'd away. Knees are completely squared, the trigger guard disappears in one frame, reappears in others, all sort of stuff. LE will be all like, "You can't see him pulling the trigger, therefore he didn't" but that's not real life. Real life is LE, the State, saying whatever they need to say. If LE had been shot, and this video was the only evidence of who shot the cop, you'd be a fool to think the Government doesn't have a rebuttal expert witness ready to come in and walk through the whole video compression thing to prove to a jury that just because the video doesn't show xyz, that doesn't mean xzy didn't happen. The video is crappy enough that we can't be 100% sure the gun discharged, much less that the trigger guard was 100% clear. If we try to chase absolutes, we'll come up empty handed. I'm 80-something percent sure the gun fired. I'm 80-something percent sure the agent was holding the pistol below the trigger guard. But I keep circling back to this: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/G_jJsQ4WsAAk_lZ?format=jpg&name=small Trump suddenly being aware of the P320's history is one piece of this quote. But I find "It's a gun that goes off when people don't know it" to be a curious statement. That could just be Trump speak, and I'm reading into something that isn't there. Or, Trump could have been making a redundant statement about the UD issue. Or, maybe Trump is telling us that the agent with the confiscated P320 didn't know it discharged in the chaos of the moment. I'm not sure how much it matters, but it could be an indication of what Trump is hearing from his people and what direction the investigation is going. That's more deflection by this admin. If that gun fired, it's almost a certainty that the agent actuated the trigger, albeit inadvertently. At least one other agent was applauding, clapping during the gunfire. If it was any other model of firearm, I'd agree without much further thought on the trigger being pulled. But there are hundreds of documented UD incidents involving the P320, and several of those are on video. There's enough data to give the agent the benefit of the doubt in the absence of solid evidence. |
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It would be pretty easy to determine that the 320 had been fired. Empty shell casings, I'm sure, have been collected. If it turns out that it was the 320 that kicked off the fireworks, the Gov will have some explaining to do given the fact that they have equipped our military with the equivalent, and similar unintentional discharges have been documented. Border Patrol carries Glocks. ICE dumped the 320 for safety reasons last summer: https://www.thearmorylife.com/forum/threads/ice-discontinues-use-of-sig-320.23310/ |
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Quoted: Ironically, 1911’s will absolutely go off if dropped on concrete. Glocks go off if you have a really crappy holster and put your finger on the trigger and squeeze. Sigs go off if you shake them, apparently Quoted: Quoted: Pay attention kids with your Glocks and fancy plastic striker fired pistols. If dead guy carried a good 'ol 1911 like God intended, he'd be alive today. Ironically, 1911’s will absolutely go off if dropped on concrete. Glocks go off if you have a really crappy holster and put your finger on the trigger and squeeze. Sigs go off if you shake them, apparently HK FTW |
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Quoted: Oh, and here's the harder truth. If the agent who may/may not have ND'd the firearm, and/or the agent who fired the shots into Pretti were female ...... Arf would have a very different take on this thing. |
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Quoted: The sound, the arm movement subsequent, the muzzle oddly sweeping bystanders, yeah, the locus of points is that gun fired. Showing that a finger wasn't in the trigger guard, though? That's a level of detail that gets DCT'd away. Knees are completely squared, the trigger guard disappears in one frame, reappears in others, all sort of stuff. LE will be all like, "You can't see him pulling the trigger, therefore he didn't" but that's not real life. Real life is LE, the State, saying whatever they need to say. If LE had been shot, and this video was the only evidence of who shot the cop, you'd be a fool to think the Government doesn't have a rebuttal expert witness ready to come in and walk through the whole video compression thing to prove to a jury that just because the video doesn't show xyz, that doesn't mean xzy didn't happen. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Absolutely Watch this one at 0.25x speed. You can definitely see the slide coming back. You can also hear the shot at the same time. I watched it earlier and thought it was so. After watching it at .25x, it's clear. And the agent is also clearly holding the gun way down on the grip, below the trigger guard.
Based off of visuals alone it is iffy as to whether it is the gun firing or just a convenient series of artifacts/visual noise in the video but the sound of a shot occurs at the same time as something appears to happen with the gun The sound, the arm movement subsequent, the muzzle oddly sweeping bystanders, yeah, the locus of points is that gun fired. Showing that a finger wasn't in the trigger guard, though? That's a level of detail that gets DCT'd away. Knees are completely squared, the trigger guard disappears in one frame, reappears in others, all sort of stuff. LE will be all like, "You can't see him pulling the trigger, therefore he didn't" but that's not real life. Real life is LE, the State, saying whatever they need to say. If LE had been shot, and this video was the only evidence of who shot the cop, you'd be a fool to think the Government doesn't have a rebuttal expert witness ready to come in and walk through the whole video compression thing to prove to a jury that just because the video doesn't show xyz, that doesn't mean xzy didn't happen. Heck if the carrier was wearing insulated gloves and brushed the trigger with his thumb he may not even know that he triggered it that way if that was the reason the gun fired. |
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Quoted: I’ve watched the video about 10 times now. IMO is that if you focus on the ARCO red dot you can see the slide cycles. I don’t think the left will think anything different regardless. The Left only cares that the dreaded guy proved to be a useful idiot for their long-term cause. The fact that he was a legally-armed gun owner - and that “right-wing” gun groups have criticized this shooting along with calling out the Administration’s immediate public statements following it (i.e., Noem, Bovino, Miller, et al) - only pleases them even more. For them, it’s a double fuck-up and thus a ‘win/win.’ |
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Quoted: Heck if the carrier was wearing insulated gloves and brushed the trigger with his thumb he may not even know that he triggered it that way if that was the reason the gun fired. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Absolutely Watch this one at 0.25x speed. You can definitely see the slide coming back. You can also hear the shot at the same time. I watched it earlier and thought it was so. After watching it at .25x, it's clear. And the agent is also clearly holding the gun way down on the grip, below the trigger guard.
Based off of visuals alone it is iffy as to whether it is the gun firing or just a convenient series of artifacts/visual noise in the video but the sound of a shot occurs at the same time as something appears to happen with the gun The sound, the arm movement subsequent, the muzzle oddly sweeping bystanders, yeah, the locus of points is that gun fired. Showing that a finger wasn't in the trigger guard, though? That's a level of detail that gets DCT'd away. Knees are completely squared, the trigger guard disappears in one frame, reappears in others, all sort of stuff. LE will be all like, "You can't see him pulling the trigger, therefore he didn't" but that's not real life. Real life is LE, the State, saying whatever they need to say. If LE had been shot, and this video was the only evidence of who shot the cop, you'd be a fool to think the Government doesn't have a rebuttal expert witness ready to come in and walk through the whole video compression thing to prove to a jury that just because the video doesn't show xyz, that doesn't mean xzy didn't happen. Heck if the carrier was wearing insulated gloves and brushed the trigger with his thumb he may not even know that he triggered it that way if that was the reason the gun fired. |
Hmmmmm.
OBSERVATION: The woman in pink filming the ICE shooting in Minneapolis still hasn't dropped her video. If it showed agents wrong, it'd be viral by now—blasted across every feed. Her silence? It screams the footage backs ICE self-defense. |
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Quoted: Hmmmmm.
OBSERVATION: The woman in pink filming the ICE shooting in Minneapolis still hasn't dropped her video. If it showed agents wrong, it'd be viral by now—blasted across every feed. Her silence? It screams the footage backs ICE self-defense. Her video has been published. Black pants, pink jacket can be seen as she's running during the firing. The still from that nonsense X post is within miliseconds of that first shot. Nobody else around her. It's her video... https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15494997/alex-jeffrey-pretti-minneapolis-shooting-videos.html |
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Quoted: Has anybody with actual knowledge said that Pretti's gun was discharged at any point? Or it this people just making up excuses with no facts? There are a few slowed down videos that show the gun, in the agent's hand, with what limited video resolution there was, no finger on the trigger. His hand jerks in sync with the first shot fired, it appears (again with what limited video resolution there was) that the slide goes back, and a moment later, the rest of the shots go off. There also appears to be an impact point from the sig, in the direction the gun was pointed. In my mind, it constitutes evidence, but not proof. |
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Quoted: Has anybody with actual knowledge said that Pretti's gun was discharged at any point? Or it this people just making up excuses with no facts? Its pure bs speculation. The first 5 minutes of an investigation would be able to tell if the gun went off. Really simple....x number of shots fired...let me see the agents' guns...oh look, x number of rounds were fired=dead guy's gun never went off. |
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Quoted: Its pure bs speculation. The first 5 minutes of an investigation would be able to tell if the gun went off. Really simple....x number of shots fired...let me see the agents' guns...oh look, x number of rounds were fired=dead guy's gun never went off. Quoted: Quoted: Has anybody with actual knowledge said that Pretti's gun was discharged at any point? Or it this people just making up excuses with no facts? Its pure bs speculation. The first 5 minutes of an investigation would be able to tell if the gun went off. Really simple....x number of shots fired...let me see the agents' guns...oh look, x number of rounds were fired=dead guy's gun never went off. https://www.foxnews.com/us/dhs-probes-whether-agents-killed-va-nurse-accidental-discharge-minneapolis-ice-raid "DHS is investigating whether Border Patrol agents mistakenly believed they were under fire after an apparent accidental gun discharge, leading to the fatal shooting" |
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Quoted: MOST wil disagree with me but this is exactly why i DON'T carry with one in the chamber. Ain't gonna go off without one in the tube. I certainly hope ICE and Antifa types take the temperature down.  Just carry a quality firearm FFS. Or like, literally any other firearm than a 320. |
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Quoted: MOST wil disagree with me but this is exactly why i DON'T carry with one in the chamber. Ain't gonna go off without one in the tube. I certainly hope ICE and Antifa types take the temperature down. If you can’t trust your firearm to be carried hot it can’t be trusted period. If you’re ever in a serious situation you won’t have time to draw and rack. Just carry a quality pistol and don’t worry. I’ve dropped Glocks and some sigs* without issue (*not a320-it was a 226-I trust that firearm) |