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Posted: 8/28/2015 8:54:29 PM EDT
[#1]
Now what are we talking about. the 7.62 ak or 5.45 or 5.56 ? Yes there ia a big differance. Ive owned 10 different style ak's. The very most accurate was a Arsenal 106 ( 5.56 ) 2-3 MOA next would be an Inrange built bulgie 74 ( 3-4 MOA ) Most all my 7.62 ak's was 100yd rifles . Couldn't hit shit after that. The bulk of them are 5-7 MOA .I have 2ea milled . Norinco and an Arsenal SAM 7 that are 3-5 MOA .. Granted Im useing Wolf Barnual and Golden tiger . The 5.56 I use in my 106 is surplus ammo Radway Green or Winnie Q3131a or something. I love the AK for what it is. Reliable. But nothing after that I can think of. This is my own experiance with them. WarDawg
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Posted: 8/28/2015 8:55:38 PM EDT
[#2]
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Gotta be worst than a Dragunov right? A guy in our club had one and was barely able to break clays at 50yds. I dont wanna imagine an AK. and yes the guy could shoot. This is how stupid gun shop memes get spread. Something is wrong with that rifle, or no that guy can't shoot for shit. That is not normal and completely ridiculous. |
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Posted: 8/28/2015 8:56:33 PM EDT
[#3]
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That is impressive. Wonder how those 7.62x39 ARs (with good ammo) do. I always assumed 7.62x39 had less accuracy & range than 5.56. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Valmet Rk62 and SAKO Rk 92 or 95 are extremely accurate guns, but are not really AK's when you look at how they're made. Just how accurate? I had someone tell me he did 1 MOA with his issued Rk (think it was a 95). I find that hard to believe for 7.62x39. Considering that Finnish ammo is the best 7.62x39 you can get short of handloads, and the RK barrel threads into the trunnion, rather than the traditional full of fuck pressed and pinned fit, its not all that improbable.  That is impressive. Wonder how those 7.62x39 ARs (with good ammo) do. I always assumed 7.62x39 had less accuracy & range than 5.56. Ask and you shall receive...here is a 100 yard 5 shot group: 
Here is a 200 yard group (while maintaining the 100 yard zero...see? I had to move the duct tape up so the bullet holes would still be on the paper): 
And here it is in all its Sportical glory: 
Duct tape is actually 1.88 inches wide, so I would call that an inch and half group at 100 yards. EDIT: I went with American Eagle brass cased ammo because I reload. I also cast, just not any .311-ish bookits yet. |
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Posted: 8/28/2015 9:01:15 PM EDT
[#4]
A friend and I did a test of my Arsenal 107CR vs his WASR10. Ugly....WASR hit about 8-10MOA, Arsenal was about 2.5. We used Golden Tiger ammo and 9 power scope on side rail. Shot prone from bags so the test was monday morning quarterback "controlled."
That's mil standard for an m4 and ammo - 4moa. I think you get what you pay for but compare off the rack AR/AK - AR wins. I will add that my PAP92 with 10" barrel & aimpoint will ring an 8" gong at 100 yards ever round from standing in fire drills. Given that I am standing, have no magnification, and am shooting a tactical rather than accuracy shot, i consider that quite accurate. Most rounds are center of the gong with over lapping paint splatter. |
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Posted: 8/28/2015 9:02:44 PM EDT
[#5]
Minute of Spray & Pray
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Posted: 8/28/2015 9:02:57 PM EDT
[#6]
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Sure, Golden Tiger is the "best"... but you have to be realistic, it isn't some awesome ammo. It's still Russian ammo that is only barely more expensive than what is considered cheap, inaccurate shit. Compare your AK with Wolf ammo next to a basic AR with the same type of cheap Wolf ammo. You will find they shoot pretty comparable. AR will be more accurate, but not to some insane extent. The AK is accurate enough for it's intended purpose. It's not a precision rifle, but it's also not a glorified shotgun. 3-5moa with cheap wolf ammo is typical. Most of the "AK accuracy is shit" is because of people using the cheapest ammo they can find, and the iron sights aren't exactly precise. My yugo AK with wolf/tula cheap crap ammo is 3-5 MOA My colt AR with wolf/tula cheap crap ammo is at worst 2 MOA |
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Posted: 8/28/2015 9:04:30 PM EDT
[#7]
Mine is minute-of-head at about 100m, with an Aimpoint M4.
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Posted: 8/28/2015 9:05:47 PM EDT
[#8]
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I love how an AR makes everyone a scout sniper I these threads Can't speak for everyone here, but a month ago a friend of mine and I took 3 college girls out to shoot. Let them do 22s, a m1 carbine and a AR style. By the end of the day they were hitting clay pidgeons with the AR pretty consistently. I don't know about you but that kind of accuracy out of a new shooter ain't too bad. I know with my AK I'd be hard pressed to hit the clays at 100yds like they were. |
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Posted: 8/28/2015 9:07:26 PM EDT
[#9]
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I have been wanting to shoot an AK for accuracy lately. I will have access to a WASR here soon. Plan: Use a RDS instead of commie sights Reload 150 grain match .310 or .311 bullets with a higher BC than the 123 grain fodder Use a ALG AK trigger ?Profit? Should be interesting. Originally, I wanted to put a rear mounted aperature sight on my AK however in the end it was much cheaper to put on a scout-style RDS. My group size absolutely shrunk going from the stock sights, however it still can't match my AR with RDS nor AR with irons. |
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Posted: 8/28/2015 9:08:24 PM EDT
[#10]
<icecube voice>
...today was a good day... </voice>
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Posted: 8/28/2015 9:10:15 PM EDT
[#11]
Eh. I can hit center of mass at 100 consistently. The AK is a gun designed with the battlefield in mind, not punching holes in paper at 1000 meters for trophies.
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Posted: 8/28/2015 9:13:55 PM EDT
[#12]
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Eh. I can hit center of mass at 100 consistently. The AK is a gun designed with the battlefield in mind, not punching holes in paper at 1000 meters for trophies. For MOST situations , minute of torso at 300yds will work just fine. HOWEVER, I'd like to know I had options at 400,500,600+ yards and from what I've seen with 7.62 AKs you just don't have that flexibility. One of these days I'll get a gun vice and try out a few AKs and all my ARs. |
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Posted: 8/28/2015 9:18:25 PM EDT
[#13]
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For MOST situations , minute of torso at 300yds will work just fine. HOWEVER, I'd like to know I had options at 400,500,600+ yards and from what I've seen with 7.62 AKs you just don't have that flexibility. One of these days I'll get a gun vice and try out a few AKs and all my ARs. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Eh. I can hit center of mass at 100 consistently. The AK is a gun designed with the battlefield in mind, not punching holes in paper at 1000 meters for trophies. For MOST situations , minute of torso at 300yds will work just fine. HOWEVER, I'd like to know I had options at 400,500,600+ yards and from what I've seen with 7.62 AKs you just don't have that flexibility. One of these days I'll get a gun vice and try out a few AKs and all my ARs. That's why the made the dragunov.
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Posted: 8/28/2015 9:22:16 PM EDT
[#14]
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A real and very rare dragunov or a guy who bought a PSL off gunbroker that was being called a dragunov? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Gotta be worst than a Dragunov right? A guy in our club had one and was barely able to break clays at 50yds. I dont wanna imagine an AK. and yes the guy could shoot. Something wrong there. I took a Marco Vorobiev's Behind The Lines sniper class and TX-Zen had no problem hitting a torso-sized target at 600 yards with his NMD-86 which are on par with the SVD with mil-surp ball ammo. Your guy's rifle wasn't sighted-in. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile A real and very rare dragunov or a guy who bought a PSL off gunbroker that was being called a dragunov? NMD-86 is a Chinese clone of the SVD. I was shooting a PSL and hitting it as well, as was another guy. I bought Russian Tigers since then but they both have SVD furniture including muzzle devices. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 8/28/2015 9:22:28 PM EDT
[#15]
About half as accurate as an sks in my hands.
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Posted: 8/28/2015 9:22:34 PM EDT
[#16]
One shoots pretty good when it works the other works every time and doesn't shoot worth a damn, you decide which is which.
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Posted: 8/28/2015 9:23:01 PM EDT
[#17]
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He is probably mistaking a PSL for a Dragunov. There are some total shit PSLs out there. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Gotta be worst than a Dragunov right? A guy in our club had one and was barely able to break clays at 50yds. I dont wanna imagine an AK. and yes the guy could shoot. Something wrong there. I took a Marco Vorobiev's Behind The Lines sniper class and TX-Zen had no problem hitting a torso-sized target at 600 yards with his NMD-86 which are on par with the SVD with mil-surp ball ammo. Your guy's rifle wasn't sighted-in. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile He is probably mistaking a PSL for a Dragunov. There are some total shit PSLs out there. Most likely. I know some PSL's string badly when they warm up. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 8/28/2015 9:37:05 PM EDT
[#18]
I have a Polytech AKS-762 red Bakelite side folder that shoots canteloupe-sized groups with any 7.62x39 ammo at 100m. It has no rhyme or reason to the groups it makes either. Personally, I think this is acceptable AK accuracy.
But I also have a Valmet 76 in .223 that shoots 1.5moa at 100 yards at least until the pencil-thin barrel starts warming up. I think that's pretty startling accuracy for an AK. |
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Posted: 8/28/2015 9:40:43 PM EDT
[#19]
As I learned at an Ak class, it is accurate enough to hit chest size targets at 200yds.
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Posted: 8/28/2015 9:47:38 PM EDT
[#20]
I haven't read the whole thread, but there is some serious bullshit being spewed on page 1.
I generally make 6" groups, standing, using the leather sling that came with my POS WASR, shooting the cheapest Wolf ammo money could buy a decade ago. I'm not going to pretend AKs are as accurate as ARs, but with better than shit ammo, and actually shooting from a sandbag, I'm pretty sure that even my bottom of the barrel, Century fucked WASR could hold a 3-4 inch group at 100 yards. I've seen Mini 14s keyhole inside of 50 yards. I've also seen plenty of folks with nice looking ARs shooting cheap steel 5.56 get watermelon sized groups. Indian>Arrow>Bow |
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Posted: 8/28/2015 9:53:30 PM EDT
[#21]
Watch an AK fire in slow motion and you will see the problem, the entire gun/barrel look like a wet noodle during the firing sequence. Much worse than the equivalent video of an AR.
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Posted: 8/28/2015 9:53:46 PM EDT
[#22]
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About half as accurate as an sks in my hands. My $80 Chinese SKS is way more accurate than it has the right to be. |
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Posted: 8/28/2015 9:59:25 PM EDT
[#23]
Fine for shooting prisoners in the back of the head at five yards.
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Posted: 8/28/2015 10:03:50 PM EDT
[#24]
AK sights suck. But if you take a Vepr 223 with the thicker receiver and heavier barrel, add a scope, I have a test where they averaged 1 7/8 inch groups shooting standing up in the snow.
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Posted: 8/28/2015 10:08:25 PM EDT
[#25]
I have a Polytech Legend and a Mak 90 both shot better the the Mini 30 I use to own,
when the POS 30 would actually make it threw a mag without jamming I would be blessed with 7-8" groups My Ak's would do 4-5" groups with the same cheap Norinco steal case ammo |
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Posted: 8/28/2015 10:08:34 PM EDT
[#26]
I have very little time with a AK. But I can easily hit a 6inch circle at 100 yards. That's the farest I ever shot it. Real sniper over here.
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Posted: 8/28/2015 10:11:09 PM EDT
[#27]
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If you look at the results for the MOA all day challenge you will see there aren't very many AK's on the board...found here When shooting the superior hornady 60 gr at 50 yards with a forend rmr mounted the best I was able to get was a 2.12 inch average over 25 shots which is just over 4 moa. I sat and acclimated to the trigger with several strings of fire using 7n6 which were far worse but when I felt like I had a good handle I shot two sets of hornady 60 gr the best of the two being what is listed. These are not 'combat shooting groups' These are extreme slow fire of 5 shots and allowing the barrel to stay cool throughout the process. As some what of a benchmark I randomly decided to shoot a franken gun with a stag barrel in it with some xm193 and an eotech which resulted like this Again this was slow fire and me giving it what I had. The xm193 and the eotech could have flipped the coin on the deciding factor for the quality of the shots. It was very hard to get a sharp aiming point on the eotech repeatedly but the xm193 is never expected to shoot much better than that. So the AK had some of the better ammo I can get for the 5.45 AK while the AR shot some of the cheaper ammo both using red dots the AR shot half the group size. I have found in my travels that most AK owners are not aware of what the rifle is capable of and many are not too worried about accuracy anyway. As far as I can see there is absolutely no reason your friend should be asking about accuracy while looking for AK's when there are so many quality AR's on the rack for sale today at the same or a cheaper price. YMMV...I don't care nick Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you look at the results for the MOA all day challenge you will see there aren't very many AK's on the board...found here 9. nickforney: SGL 31 - Trijicon RMR 8 moa - Hornady 60gr steel case vmax. Groups: 3.037/ 1.845/ 1.841/ 1.800/ 2.072/ avg 2.12" = 4.04 MOA When shooting the superior hornady 60 gr at 50 yards with a forend rmr mounted the best I was able to get was a 2.12 inch average over 25 shots which is just over 4 moa. I sat and acclimated to the trigger with several strings of fire using 7n6 which were far worse but when I felt like I had a good handle I shot two sets of hornady 60 gr the best of the two being what is listed. These are not 'combat shooting groups' These are extreme slow fire of 5 shots and allowing the barrel to stay cool throughout the process. As some what of a benchmark I randomly decided to shoot a franken gun with a stag barrel in it with some xm193 and an eotech which resulted like this 2.nickforney: Stag upper 5.56 - Eotech - xm193. Groups: .990/ 1.143/ 1.220/ .922/ 1.002/ avg 1.06" = 2.02 moa Again this was slow fire and me giving it what I had. The xm193 and the eotech could have flipped the coin on the deciding factor for the quality of the shots. It was very hard to get a sharp aiming point on the eotech repeatedly but the xm193 is never expected to shoot much better than that. So the AK had some of the better ammo I can get for the 5.45 AK while the AR shot some of the cheaper ammo both using red dots the AR shot half the group size. I have found in my travels that most AK owners are not aware of what the rifle is capable of and many are not too worried about accuracy anyway. As far as I can see there is absolutely no reason your friend should be asking about accuracy while looking for AK's when there are so many quality AR's on the rack for sale today at the same or a cheaper price. YMMV...I don't care nick The AK also had an 8moa red dot while the AR had a 1moa red dot. That will make a difference as the huge dot will be more difficult to aim consistently. I had an SGL31 that I could shoot right about 3moa consistently with wolf ammo. I used a Russian PK-A red dot (has about a 1-2 moa dot). |
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Posted: 8/28/2015 10:13:35 PM EDT
[#28]
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My yugo AK with wolf/tula cheap crap ammo is 3-5 MOA My colt AR with wolf/tula cheap crap ammo is at worst 2 MOA Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Sure, Golden Tiger is the "best"... but you have to be realistic, it isn't some awesome ammo. It's still Russian ammo that is only barely more expensive than what is considered cheap, inaccurate shit. Compare your AK with Wolf ammo next to a basic AR with the same type of cheap Wolf ammo. You will find they shoot pretty comparable. AR will be more accurate, but not to some insane extent. The AK is accurate enough for it's intended purpose. It's not a precision rifle, but it's also not a glorified shotgun. 3-5moa with cheap wolf ammo is typical. Most of the "AK accuracy is shit" is because of people using the cheapest ammo they can find, and the iron sights aren't exactly precise. My yugo AK with wolf/tula cheap crap ammo is 3-5 MOA My colt AR with wolf/tula cheap crap ammo is at worst 2 MOA A 1-2moa difference is nothing in a basic infantry rifle. |
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Posted: 8/28/2015 10:18:12 PM EDT
[#29]
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They really are pretty much junk. |
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Posted: 8/28/2015 10:19:00 PM EDT
[#30]
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*sigh* after reading the first 10+ responses I am disappointed in the forum. we've fallen to the depths of a bunch of sniveling pranksters and act more like children than the adults I assume most of you are... even by the standards of GD. ... Nyet. AK47s are for African child-soldiers. I'm a ToysRus kid. |
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Posted: 8/28/2015 10:20:40 PM EDT
[#31]
The biggest deal breaker for me is the shitty ergos, the sights that suck, and the hurdles that must be overcome to mount an optic.
No thanks. But I'm glad some people like them. |
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Posted: 8/28/2015 10:26:01 PM EDT
[#32]
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Even at 6 MOA, that's a hit on a man-sized torso at 200+ yards. They are not and were never really intended to be precision instruments. I'd be curious to know how your friend defines "good accuracy overall". Yeah, if the shooter is perfect and has zero error, which won't happen if he is not shooting from a bench or bipod. The shooter error is added on the inherent inaccuracy of the rifle; it's not one or the other. It's difficult to maximize the accuracy potential of an AK, because they mostly have shitty triggers, and usually are using shitty ammo. If you load up some match ammo for it, you might see 3 or 4 MOA, or you might not. Like any cheap, mass-produced rifle, accuracy is going to vary a lot from one rifle to another. For example (although not an AK), a friend and I each bought an SKS on the same day, his Chinese and mine Russian. Russian have a better reputation, and yet mine had such a shitty barrel, that it would walk completely off an 18" target at 100 yards within 10 shots. His Chinese stayed on the target as it heated up, with much less shift in POI. I thought AKs were good fun back in the 80s and 90s, when a case of ammo was dirt cheap, and so were the rifles. But for what the rifles and ammo sell for now, there are better options, IMO. |
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Posted: 8/28/2015 10:27:14 PM EDT
[#33]
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He is probably mistaking a PSL for a Dragunov. There are some total shit PSLs out there. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Gotta be worst than a Dragunov right? A guy in our club had one and was barely able to break clays at 50yds. I dont wanna imagine an AK. and yes the guy could shoot. Something wrong there. I took a Marco Vorobiev's Behind The Lines sniper class and TX-Zen had no problem hitting a torso-sized target at 600 yards with his NMD-86 which are on par with the SVD with mil-surp ball ammo. Your guy's rifle wasn't sighted-in. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile He is probably mistaking a PSL for a Dragunov. There are some total shit PSLs out there. Not sure which model he had the two things I'm certain of is it was not a 7.62x39 round and it had the telescopic rubber eyepiece  Sorry I was not intrested in looking at the rifle.
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Posted: 8/28/2015 10:37:05 PM EDT
[#34]
Off hand on steel at 300 yards.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSuAPjw2Jgw Brandon is a phenomenal shot. |
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Posted: 8/28/2015 10:40:11 PM EDT
[#35]
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This is how stupid gun shop memes get spread. Something is wrong with that rifle, or no that guy can't shoot for shit. That is not normal and completely ridiculous. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Gotta be worst than a Dragunov right? A guy in our club had one and was barely able to break clays at 50yds. I dont wanna imagine an AK. and yes the guy could shoot. This is how stupid gun shop memes get spread. Something is wrong with that rifle, or no that guy can't shoot for shit. That is not normal and completely ridiculous. It was probably a PSL also |
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Posted: 8/28/2015 10:50:43 PM EDT
[#36]
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AK sights suck. But if you take a Vepr 223 with the thicker receiver and heavier barrel, add a scope, I have a test where they averaged 1 7/8 inch groups shooting standing up in the snow. At what distance? If you can consistently hold under 2 MOA offhand with that rifle, you should be shooting at Camp Perry or in the Olympics. |
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Posted: 8/28/2015 11:01:15 PM EDT
[#37]
about as accurate as a fal!!
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Posted: 8/28/2015 11:11:08 PM EDT
[#38]
My Yugo M72B1 RPK shoots really well. I found a super nice original Yugo heavy barrel for it which helps. That's like my Yugo M70B1 with an AK Builder barrel shoots much better than I expected too even with crappy AK sights. Both were Apex kits built on NDS-9 and NDS-5 receivers by Two Rivers Arms. I have a write up with pics on them in the Yugo AK section here BTW.
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Posted: 8/28/2015 11:16:29 PM EDT
[#39]
My Robinson VEPRs shoot about 1 1/2 moa. Suck on that, AK haters. Then again, these are hardly typical AKs.
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Posted: 8/28/2015 11:18:47 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
At what distance? If you can consistently hold under 2 MOA offhand with that rifle, you should be shooting at Camp Perry or in the Olympics. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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AK sights suck. But if you take a Vepr 223 with the thicker receiver and heavier barrel, add a scope, I have a test where they averaged 1 7/8 inch groups shooting standing up in the snow. At what distance? If you can consistently hold under 2 MOA offhand with that rifle, you should be shooting at Camp Perry or in the Olympics. A guy did take a .223 VEPR II to Camp Perry years ago. The gun worked fine, but he had problems ranging with the stock iron sights, IIRC. |
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Posted: 8/28/2015 11:42:03 PM EDT
[#41]
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The AK also had an 8moa red dot while the AR had a 1moa red dot. That will make a difference as the huge dot will be more difficult to aim consistently. I had an SGL31 that I could shoot right about 3moa consistently with wolf ammo. I used a Russian PK-A red dot (has about a 1-2 moa dot). Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If you look at the results for the MOA all day challenge you will see there aren't very many AK's on the board...found here 9. nickforney: SGL 31 - Trijicon RMR 8 moa - Hornady 60gr steel case vmax. Groups: 3.037/ 1.845/ 1.841/ 1.800/ 2.072/ avg 2.12" = 4.04 MOA When shooting the superior hornady 60 gr at 50 yards with a forend rmr mounted the best I was able to get was a 2.12 inch average over 25 shots which is just over 4 moa. I sat and acclimated to the trigger with several strings of fire using 7n6 which were far worse but when I felt like I had a good handle I shot two sets of hornady 60 gr the best of the two being what is listed. These are not 'combat shooting groups' These are extreme slow fire of 5 shots and allowing the barrel to stay cool throughout the process. As some what of a benchmark I randomly decided to shoot a franken gun with a stag barrel in it with some xm193 and an eotech which resulted like this 2.nickforney: Stag upper 5.56 - Eotech - xm193. Groups: .990/ 1.143/ 1.220/ .922/ 1.002/ avg 1.06" = 2.02 moa Again this was slow fire and me giving it what I had. The xm193 and the eotech could have flipped the coin on the deciding factor for the quality of the shots. It was very hard to get a sharp aiming point on the eotech repeatedly but the xm193 is never expected to shoot much better than that. So the AK had some of the better ammo I can get for the 5.45 AK while the AR shot some of the cheaper ammo both using red dots the AR shot half the group size. I have found in my travels that most AK owners are not aware of what the rifle is capable of and many are not too worried about accuracy anyway. As far as I can see there is absolutely no reason your friend should be asking about accuracy while looking for AK's when there are so many quality AR's on the rack for sale today at the same or a cheaper price. YMMV...I don't care nick The AK also had an 8moa red dot while the AR had a 1moa red dot. That will make a difference as the huge dot will be more difficult to aim consistently. I had an SGL31 that I could shoot right about 3moa consistently with wolf ammo. I used a Russian PK-A red dot (has about a 1-2 moa dot). Perhaps you have a particularly tight AK... Not as a jab to you but as an instructional moment who perhaps have some kind of negative mindset on larger dots and precision shooting. No matter what you are talking about molon has a post on it and like the christians with the Gospels of mark and those other fellows I like to reference the gospel of molon. link to precision shooting with an aimpoint I do not care for eotechs myself. I don't think I have astigmatism but I have always seen aimpoint dots to be far sharper. What I didn't mention before was that I used 'custom' targets for each optic to optimize what I had. On the eotech I used straight lines that were something like 2.8 mils long that I would align the two dots in my eotech on. This gave me as sharp of a point and consistent groups as I could get. At that time I was shooting a lot and had taken the summer off to be with my son after getting out of the army. I would warm up with a moa drill generally. For the AK I used a upside down pyramid. I focused on placing the sharpest point of the triangle on the most 12 oclock point on the aimpoint. Suttle things about the rifle are junk. I don't care to get into it any more because they are garbage and the vast majority of people who enjoy using them do so because it is a fun range toy. The AR is far better when it comes to accuracy which was what the OP was asking about. |
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Posted: 8/29/2015 12:16:48 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ak s are not accurate guns they are not designed to be accurate. |
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Posted: 8/29/2015 12:24:03 AM EDT
[#43]
If you want quality 7.62x39 I'd suggest buying Hornady's 123gr SST offering.
http://www.hornady.com/store/7.62X39-123-gr-SST/ |
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Posted: 8/29/2015 12:28:40 AM EDT
[#44]
Idk about other rifles, but my NPAP has managed a few repeatable 2 inch groups with irons at 100yds. I should try to get some glass on the gun at some point and see what itll really do.
A lot of it isnt the gun, its the nut behind the trigger. |
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Posted: 8/29/2015 12:49:39 AM EDT
[#45]
A throw away gun for a throw away soldier.
Seeing as the first selection off safe is FA, you can guess to what degree accuracy was taken into consideration. |
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Posted: 8/29/2015 1:07:30 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is how stupid gun shop memes get spread. Something is wrong with that rifle, or no that guy can't shoot for shit. That is not normal and completely ridiculous. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Gotta be worst than a Dragunov right? A guy in our club had one and was barely able to break clays at 50yds. I dont wanna imagine an AK. and yes the guy could shoot. This is how stupid gun shop memes get spread. Something is wrong with that rifle, or no that guy can't shoot for shit. That is not normal and completely ridiculous. Maybe so but it did happen. The guy was a regular(Class A)shooter not a Fud. I'd like to hope it's not normal but we had no other like/kind to measure it with. Only ARs(223 & 308), M1As & Bolt Actions. |
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Posted: 8/29/2015 1:17:33 AM EDT
[#47]
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It was probably a PSL also Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Gotta be worst than a Dragunov right? A guy in our club had one and was barely able to break clays at 50yds. I dont wanna imagine an AK. and yes the guy could shoot. This is how stupid gun shop memes get spread. Something is wrong with that rifle, or no that guy can't shoot for shit. That is not normal and completely ridiculous. It was probably a PSL also More than likely. We could'nt believe a popular weapon like this could shoot so poorly. I'll be the first to admit I had no intrest in that rifle. The only reason I know it wasn't a 7.62x39 is that it was loud! I asked about the round and was shown a longer than a 308 with a rimmed case. |
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Posted: 8/29/2015 2:06:19 AM EDT
[#48]
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A guy did take a .223 VEPR II to Camp Perry years ago. The gun worked fine, but he had problems ranging with the stock iron sights, IIRC. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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AK sights suck. But if you take a Vepr 223 with the thicker receiver and heavier barrel, add a scope, I have a test where they averaged 1 7/8 inch groups shooting standing up in the snow. At what distance? If you can consistently hold under 2 MOA offhand with that rifle, you should be shooting at Camp Perry or in the Olympics. A guy did take a .223 VEPR II to Camp Perry years ago. The gun worked fine, but he had problems ranging with the stock iron sights, IIRC. I was talking about the shooter, who claimed to be shooting under 2" groups offhand, but didn't say the distance. If he was shooting under 2 MOA offhand with a VEPR, he wouldn't even have any competition at Perry, or in the Olympics. Let's pretend that his VEPR is a 1 MOA rifle (not likely), that means he can hold under 1 MOA offhand....assuming that he was talking about 100 yards or so. If that's the case, I want to see his medal and trophy collection. In other words, I call bullshit.
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Posted: 8/29/2015 2:34:36 AM EDT
[#49]
There are probably millions of dead people out there who were killed with AK's at various distances who'd tell you that an AK is plenty accurate....but they can't tell you that...because they're dead.
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Posted: 8/29/2015 2:37:33 AM EDT
[#50]
..nm
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