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Quoted: Mine will do that with no trigger input. Had the "voluntary upgrade" done. Its at the shop on consignment for the last few months, ill go pick it up and post a video as best i can. I dont have any primed shells or anything like that. I want my money back Sig. Hopefully this lowers the price on 22x series... that shits my jam... You gotta post video. Lots of guys won't believe you otherwise. |
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Quoted: If a round is chambered, that’s happening outside the holster. If the trigger return spring is weak, or the burr exists and it hangs up, the trigger will move forward but it will act like it’s already being pulled. Nobody would ever know. Then the gun gets holstered, jostled, looked at wrong, BANG Quoted: Quoted: This is where I am, too. If the trigger is pulled back 1mm, You are pulling the trigger. How is that happening with holstered weapons? If a round is chambered, that’s happening outside the holster. If the trigger return spring is weak, or the burr exists and it hangs up, the trigger will move forward but it will act like it’s already being pulled. Nobody would ever know. Then the gun gets holstered, jostled, looked at wrong, BANG It really is that simple.. |
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Quoted: Yeah, the fake and exaggerated shocked face when it did exactly what anyone would expect it to do based on the prior half hour of millimeters was cheesy. Dude is a goober. Quoted: Yeah, the fake and exaggerated shocked face when it did exactly what anyone would expect it to do based on the prior half hour of millimeters was cheesy. Dude is a goober. Can you please link your video on the subject? I am curious how you tested and what your results were. |
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Quoted: Mine will do that with no trigger input. Had the "voluntary upgrade" done. Its at the shop on consignment for the last few months, ill go pick it up and post a video as best i can. I dont have any primed shells or anything like that. I want my money back Sig. Hopefully this lowers the price on 22x series... that shits my jam... Please post the video. |
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Quoted: That trigger was not pulled DK. If you stack a trigger and press on the slide it should not fire. He is showing even minor problems defeat the guns safeties. The P320 is nothing more than a single action striker fired gun. It should not be marketed as a duty gun. Wear, lint, grease, dirt or bad springs set you up for failure. Its a bad design. Quoted: Quoted: I'm not sure partially.pulling the trigger and manually manipulating the gun in particular and specific ways counts as "un commanded"  Has this guy demonstrated that some P320s can be made to fire when they technically should not? Seems like it. Has he demonstrated that a p320 discharged "un commanded"? lol no. That trigger was not pulled DK. If you stack a trigger and press on the slide it should not fire. He is showing even minor problems defeat the guns safeties. The P320 is nothing more than a single action striker fired gun. It should not be marketed as a duty gun. Wear, lint, grease, dirt or bad springs set you up for failure. Its a bad design. It would be an " un-commanded" discharge if he just picked it up and wiggled/jiggled it, or shook it or whatever. But as soon as he STARTS pulling the trigger back - regardless of how far back he pulls it - he loses ANY claim to the phrase "un-commanded" The trigger on a firearm serves one function, and that is to discharge the firearm. If he can make the firearm discharge without touching the trigger, then his claim would be valid. He ABSOLUTELY has demonstrated a bad design, no question. I agree with you. A terrible trigger/safety design? Probably. But he has not demonstrated an "un-commanded" discharge. |
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Quoted: Please post the video. Quoted: Quoted: Mine will do that with no trigger input. Had the "voluntary upgrade" done. Its at the shop on consignment for the last few months, ill go pick it up and post a video as best i can. I dont have any primed shells or anything like that. I want my money back Sig. Hopefully this lowers the price on 22x series... that shits my jam... Please post the video. |
Here is someone else with a youtube short that does the same thing. Failed To Load Title It is not linking properly but it is here: https://youtube.com/shorts/Sv7wZSBO5sQ?si=AL0A-9S1j_qGt5Tg |
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Quoted: The takeaway from this video is not necessarily or especially that the trigger face has any rearward travel on it, but that if there is >1mm stacking tolerance that's out of spec in the interface between the integrated Fire Control Unit assembly and the slide it will bypass and defeat the striker safety and cause discharge if the slide is bumped vertically or laterally. Essentially the author's testing suggests this uncommanded discharge result could be replicated without barely pinning the trigger to the wall with a wood screw as shown here, but due to any number of spec issues (brand new or worn through use) with the plastic frame, any number of stacking parts tolerances interface inside the FCU, the geometry of the FCU chassis itself, or perhaps general uncleanliness of the internal FCU mechanism like oily lint or perhaps even a buildup of brass cartridge flakes. Or even a teeny smidge of all of these together. In short, for whatever reason(s) that a SIG P320 may find itself out of spec under a millimeter throughout the fire control system it could discharge just by bumping the slide. Could potentially happen to a brand new P320 or could take time to develop through wear. When all is said and done I think it might end up being simply that SIG's integrated FCU chassis was an initially cool idea but ultimately lousy delivery on the fabrication of at least some manufactured P320 pistols. Totally robust and safe designed in an engineer's CAD program but ultimately didn't measure up in the genuine steel and plastic manufactured product. Disclaimer: I have no expertise in this issue, have never tested a thing in regards to a P320, and don't recall ever having even held one in my hands. I'm just some guy commenting on the evident outcome of someone else's testing. Quoted: Quoted: I get that it shouldn't fire with the trigger pulled halfway back and the slide wiggled, but how does this explain all of the "it was just sitting in its holster and went off" claims? I mean, he's literally pulling the trigger. Essentially the author's testing suggests this uncommanded discharge result could be replicated without barely pinning the trigger to the wall with a wood screw as shown here, but due to any number of spec issues (brand new or worn through use) with the plastic frame, any number of stacking parts tolerances interface inside the FCU, the geometry of the FCU chassis itself, or perhaps general uncleanliness of the internal FCU mechanism like oily lint or perhaps even a buildup of brass cartridge flakes. Or even a teeny smidge of all of these together. In short, for whatever reason(s) that a SIG P320 may find itself out of spec under a millimeter throughout the fire control system it could discharge just by bumping the slide. Could potentially happen to a brand new P320 or could take time to develop through wear. When all is said and done I think it might end up being simply that SIG's integrated FCU chassis was an initially cool idea but ultimately lousy delivery on the fabrication of at least some manufactured P320 pistols. Totally robust and safe designed in an engineer's CAD program but ultimately didn't measure up in the genuine steel and plastic manufactured product. Disclaimer: I have no expertise in this issue, have never tested a thing in regards to a P320, and don't recall ever having even held one in my hands. I'm just some guy commenting on the evident outcome of someone else's testing. This is exactly the point. |
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Quoted: Mine will do that with no trigger input. Had the "voluntary upgrade" done. Its at the shop on consignment for the last few months, ill go pick it up and post a video as best i can. I dont have any primed shells or anything like that. I want my money back Sig. Hopefully this lowers the price on 22x series... that shits my jam... I think I saw an ad for a P229 for around $700 or something like that recently. |
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It would be interesting if you could re-create the issue with sequence. Chamber firearm, wiggle slide, pull trigger to wall, then let off and wiggle slide to see if it goes off. That much play in the slide, I wonder if the mechanics are setting and walking to a stay point till conditions are right. I have a new M18 at the cabin, gunna hafta play with it now! |
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Quoted: I seriously doubt that. This is having an effect on the public perception of SIG quality. It will cost them 10s of millions one way or another. Quoted: Quoted: These threads/videos are actually starting to make Sig look good Sad, but very true. It did not take long for multiple folks to show 100 percent definitive proof of the drop issue. How many years have some claimed there is an issue, and do we have the 100 percent definitive proof, yet? The incessant emotional knee jerk reactions to support a position that has not found 100 percent validity is getting old, and is making it more difficult to take folks/things seriously. Hopefully, we can find a resolution to this soon. Either someone can make it happen definitively, at which point it can be addressed, or we find it has already been addresses, or never truly existed - which is certainly doubtful for being true. There is definitely smoke, but is there pollution continuously impeding finding if the smoke is real with a fire, or was the fire put out, or was the fire made up.. Presentation and attitude are lacking, similar to Sig, is the point This is having an effect on the public perception of SIG quality. It will cost them 10s of millions one way or another. If I had a low-moderate subscriber YT channel, and I was unethical and had a P320, I would fuck in it every way but sledge-hammering it in order to reproduce the malfunction for views. The converse is it has actually happened. The truth is somewhere between the extremes. |
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Quoted: Mine will do that with no trigger input. Had the "voluntary upgrade" done. Its at the shop on consignment for the last few months, ill go pick it up and post a video as best i can. I dont have any primed shells or anything like that. I want my money back Sig. Hopefully this lowers the price on 22x series... that shits my jam... If you have ammo, all you have to do is pull a projectile (pliers would work since you’re not trying to save it) and dump out the powder to have a primed case. |
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Quoted: It would be an " un-commanded" discharge if he just picked it up and wiggled/jiggled it, or shook it or whatever. But as soon as he STARTS pulling the trigger back - regardless of how far back he pulls it - he loses ANY claim to the phrase "un-commanded" The trigger on a firearm serves one function, and that is to discharge the firearm. If he can make the firearm discharge without touching the trigger, then his claim would be valid. He ABSOLUTELY has demonstrated a bad design, no question. I agree with you. A terrible trigger/safety design? Probably. But he has not demonstrated an "un-commanded" discharge. OK I'll give you that. He is stacking the trigger. But it's a shit design. Not rated for duty use. If that is all it takes, that explains a lot of these discharges. |
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Quoted: Here is someone else with a youtube short that does the same thing.  https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Sv7wZSBO5sQIt is not linking properly but it is here: https://youtube.com/shorts/Sv7wZSBO5sQ?si=AL0A-9S1j_qGt5Tg Failed To Load Title |
| I had to stop watching it because the idiot had his hand in front of the muzzle a thousand times. He is definitely going to blow his hand off one day mishandling a gun that 'he knows is not loaded'. Modern striker-fired guns just seem more likely to have this malfunction. Taurus got raked over the coals some years back with the Gen 1 'Millennium' having a similar problem. I had just bought one, a 24/7 'Pro' .45, before I found out. I actually still have it and its a trusted pistol. I did everything I could think of to make it fire a primed case, including throwing it down on a carpeted floor, with the manual safety on and off. It never fired. I recently bought my first Glock, a G23/3, and I also got a compensated barrel and slide so it can be a 23C with a quick slide change. No safety on it, of course, so I have to get used to that. It looks to me like this SIG 320 is doomed - the court of public opinion has spoken. I wonder how many guys had an ND with an M1911 or M1911A1? That number has to be in the 100,000s, and the 1911 was our military pistol for about 70 years. |
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Quoted: I just did what he did, mine wouldn't do it. Doesnt mean other P320s won't do it. Give it enough time/firings for parts wear, and it will. Lets short bus this, and sig swiss watch'd a Proven simple glock striker design to get far enough away from patent infringements, but like some watches that you can destroy by just wearing them during golfing (which I did to a montblanc watch), this happens when firearms are over designed to get away from patent infringements. And the real question, since the Sig was chosen over glocks to be modular, just how many of the governments Sigs have been changed from the configurations that they came to start with. Hence OPs use the G19, and if they need compact or sub compact, then run with the 19 or 26, which all of the pistols can run the sub gun +p ammo without problems, that runs in the MP5SD, or the B&T sub guns they are running now. Hell, truth be told, why military did not stay with M9 ( updated version with weight and easier to hit what your targeting at distances), isntead of going with lighter gun that is harder to hit your target at distance, still a mystery. Yes, the M9 did need to be replace, but it was not due to bad design, just the pistols in service were shot out and way past life spans, and lets face it, when sig is hiring retired generals to tip the scales on contact awards/why you end up with new weapons being choose for that alone. And to add, the M9 is a military pistol, and they could have just awards the contract to F&N (instead of Beretta USA), to make the replacements at a reduced cost. |
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Quoted: Mine will do that with no trigger input. Had the "voluntary upgrade" done. Its at the shop on consignment for the last few months, ill go pick it up and post a video as best i can. I dont have any primed shells or anything like that. I want my money back Sig. Hopefully this lowers the price on 22x series... that shits my jam... So your gun goes off without a trigger pull and you put a knowingly dangerous gun up for consignment so some poor sap can shoot themselves (or someone else) with it? 
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The way I see it could be happening is some one put their finger on the trigger. Removes finger, but perhaps there is some dried grease, dirt, grime, or a weak spring, warped frame (that binds it) and the trigger stays in that position even though finger is removed. They then holster it or hit the slide and it goes off. |
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Quoted: The way I see it could be happening is some one put their finger on the trigger. Removes finger, but perhaps there is some dried grease, dirt, grime, or a weak spring, warped frame (that binds it) and the trigger stays in that position even though finger is removed. They then holster it or hit the slide and it goes off. Attached File |
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Quoted: Let me rip my shirt off and flex my big muscles. I got this!  Quoted: Quoted: Remember that if you prove this, you have to fight that GBRS guy first. Let me rip my shirt off and flex my big muscles. I got this! Attached File |
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Quoted: This Quoted: Quoted: What he showed is that any amount of lint, dirt, sand, or donut dust that gets in the gun can cause the tolerances to be off enough for it to fire. Anything that keeps the trigger from completely resetting to its’ full forward position leads to this outcome. Yes, the trigger is being “manipulated” but not really. That condition could be caused by any of the factors above. My guess is that he has the perfect replication of what has been happening with these guns all over the country. Sig is as good as finished after this. This Who has 2mm of lint, dirt, sand or donut dust? Come on. Glackman even says “Yes, the trigger is being “manipulated” but not really.” Rofl. It’s being manipulated. But it isn’t. But it really is. |
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Quoted: OK I'll give you that. He is stacking the trigger. But it's a shit design. Not rated for duty use. If that is all it takes, that explains a lot of these discharges. Quoted: Quoted: It would be an " un-commanded" discharge if he just picked it up and wiggled/jiggled it, or shook it or whatever. But as soon as he STARTS pulling the trigger back - regardless of how far back he pulls it - he loses ANY claim to the phrase "un-commanded" The trigger on a firearm serves one function, and that is to discharge the firearm. If he can make the firearm discharge without touching the trigger, then his claim would be valid. He ABSOLUTELY has demonstrated a bad design, no question. I agree with you. A terrible trigger/safety design? Probably. But he has not demonstrated an "un-commanded" discharge. OK I'll give you that. He is stacking the trigger. But it's a shit design. Not rated for duty use. If that is all it takes, that explains a lot of these discharges. I don't think we really disagree. 
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Quoted: Either way, if the potential for an uncommanded discharge truly concerns you then I suggest you forget about all striker fired guns and stick with DA/SA gun which are much safer than any striker fired gun. I mean... Who isn't concerned about the potential for an uncommanded discharge? That should be every single person who carries a gun, right? That should factor into everyone's gun buying decisions. But really, who could be so careless as to not give a shit if their gun might go off on its own? |
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Glock guys watching the haters fight over their "Glock killer" pistols. Attached File |
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Quoted: Who has 2mm of lint, dirt, sand or donut dust? Come on. Glackman even says “Yes, the trigger is being “manipulated” but not really.” Rofl. It’s being manipulated. But it isn’t. But it really is. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: What he showed is that any amount of lint, dirt, sand, or donut dust that gets in the gun can cause the tolerances to be off enough for it to fire. Anything that keeps the trigger from completely resetting to its’ full forward position leads to this outcome. Yes, the trigger is being “manipulated” but not really. That condition could be caused by any of the factors above. My guess is that he has the perfect replication of what has been happening with these guns all over the country. Sig is as good as finished after this. This Who has 2mm of lint, dirt, sand or donut dust? Come on. Glackman even says “Yes, the trigger is being “manipulated” but not really.” Rofl. It’s being manipulated. But it isn’t. But it really is. You’ve never bought any used cop guns have you? I’ve had a couple I had to just disassemble and throw in the sink because I was running out of cleaning patches. Absolutely filthy, like a decade of carry and shooting without being cleaned. |
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Quoted: Who has 2mm of lint, dirt, sand or donut dust? Come on. Glackman even says “Yes, the trigger is being “manipulated” but not really.” Rofl. It’s being manipulated. But it isn’t. But it really is. But you don't need 2mm of crap...it just needs to get into the pivot pin and cause it to bind and not allow the trigger to pivot back to the return position. |
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So, basically, even the most ardent -320 is junk- advocates have now also basically confirmed with posting/defending this video that Sig was right in saying - It cannot go off without the trigger being pulled…. After adamantly trying to say the trigger was not pulled… I doubt that was the intention of the thread, but here we are. Heres the proof gentleman, p320 uncommanded discharge. |
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Quoted: You’ve never bought any used cop guns have you? I’ve had a couple I had to just disassemble and throw in the sink because I was running out of cleaning patches. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: What he showed is that any amount of lint, dirt, sand, or donut dust that gets in the gun can cause the tolerances to be off enough for it to fire. Anything that keeps the trigger from completely resetting to its’ full forward position leads to this outcome. Yes, the trigger is being “manipulated” but not really. That condition could be caused by any of the factors above. My guess is that he has the perfect replication of what has been happening with these guns all over the country. Sig is as good as finished after this. This Who has 2mm of lint, dirt, sand or donut dust? Come on. Glackman even says “Yes, the trigger is being “manipulated” but not really.” Rofl. It’s being manipulated. But it isn’t. But it really is. You’ve never bought any used cop guns have you? I’ve had a couple I had to just disassemble and throw in the sink because I was running out of cleaning patches. Found any… gosh, I don’t know… screws jammed into those cop guns? Manipulation is manipulation. |
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Quoted: So, basically, even the most ardent -320 is junk- advocates have now also basically confirmed with posting/defending this video that Sig was right in saying - It cannot go off without the trigger being pulled…. After adamantly trying to say the trigger was not pulled… I doubt that was the intention of the thread, but here we are. Heres the proof gentleman, p320 uncommanded discharge. Uncommanded. It only requires a screw jammed into the action to prove.
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Quoted: OP: change the thread title. Forcing a screw into the trigger action does not equal “un-commanded discharge” Man you guys will do anything to defend this crap. Stick a screw in front of a Glock trigger and see if you can get the striker to drop by moving the slide… |
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Quoted: Man you guys will do anything to defend this crap. Stick a screw in front of a Glock trigger and see if you can get the striker to drop by moving the slide… Quoted: Quoted: OP: change the thread title. Forcing a screw into the trigger action does not equal “un-commanded discharge” Man you guys will do anything to defend this crap. Stick a screw in front of a Glock trigger and see if you can get the striker to drop by moving the slide… I’m not defending anything. On record in this thread saying Sig needs to fix this. But if you need a screw jammed into the action to prove your point, you don’t have a point. |
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Quoted: I’m not defending anything. On record in this thread saying Sig needs to fix this. But if you need a screw jammed into the action to prove your point, you don’t have a point. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: OP: change the thread title. Forcing a screw into the trigger action does not equal “un-commanded discharge” Man you guys will do anything to defend this crap. Stick a screw in front of a Glock trigger and see if you can get the striker to drop by moving the slide… I’m not defending anything. On record in this thread saying Sig needs to fix this. But if you need a screw jammed into the action to prove your point, you don’t have a point. The screw is just the most convenient way to display the failure. The right combination of crud in the internal parts would create the same effect. As we’ve seen them fire while holstered without even being touched. |
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Quoted: So another video of someone sticking a foreign object into their 320 and saying the gun is unsafe because it fires? (I owned a 320 AXG Scorpion. I experienced no issues, but only put somewhere between 800-1k through the gun. I sold it to fund a C2.) What happens when you shoot and carry a gun for months or years and never do a complete detail strip to clean it? Clean the barrel with a field strip, sure. But what if you never take apart the frame completely and clean each component? Foreign matter begins to build up inside it. Lint, dust, skin cells, hairs, carbon deposits, old dried grease and oil, unburnt powder, tiny slivers of brass and copper shavings all accumulate anywhere there's an opening, and they make the spaces they occupy smaller amd smaller over time. It's not inconceivable that the trigger take-up travel could be reduced to a point that the striker block safety isn't engaging anymore. Still, you shouldnt be able to wiggle the slide and cause a discharge under any circumstances. |
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Quoted: The screw is just the most convenient way to display the failure. The right combination of crud in the internal parts would create the same effect. As we’ve seen them fire while holstered without even being touched. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: OP: change the thread title. Forcing a screw into the trigger action does not equal “un-commanded discharge” Man you guys will do anything to defend this crap. Stick a screw in front of a Glock trigger and see if you can get the striker to drop by moving the slide… I’m not defending anything. On record in this thread saying Sig needs to fix this. But if you need a screw jammed into the action to prove your point, you don’t have a point. The screw is just the most convenient way to display the failure. The right combination of crud in the internal parts would create the same effect. As we’ve seen them fire while holstered without even being touched. 2mm of crud. 1+ at a minimum. Okayyyyyy Once again, I’m on record saying Sig needs to fix this. I’m also on record as saying: don’t game the system and expect everyone to agree with you. It’s not a good look if your point needs to be made by screwing with the mechanism. Courts will agree. |
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Quoted: No. Did you look at the second video I posted in the OP? Quoted: Quoted: OP: change the thread title. Forcing a screw into the trigger action does not equal “un-commanded discharge” No. Did you look at the second video I posted in the OP? Oh, the even less scientific video you posted and I didn’t know about? No. Come on. We can agree the design needs fixing without gaming the tests to fit the narrative. Do that and I’ll be impressed. |
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Quoted: Uncommanded. It only requires a screw jammed into the action to prove. Its 1MM of movement. What's next? You gonna tell me holsters don't move triggers? People don't bump their guns? So if you get in a fight! You are throwing your body around. Gun is getting slammed up against wall, or you are rolling on the ground. The trigger is not moving and the slide is not shaking? Come on. |
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Quoted: Who has 2mm of lint, dirt, sand or donut dust? Come on. Glackman even says “Yes, the trigger is being “manipulated” but not really.” Rofl. It’s being manipulated. But it isn’t. But it really is. I think the “thin trigger guard leading to holster rubbing the trigger” theory could have some merit |
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Quoted: Its 1MM of movement. What's next? You gonna tell me holsters don't move triggers? People don't bump their guns? So if you get in a fight! You are throwing your body around. Gun is getting slammed up against wall, or you are rolling on the ground. The trigger is not moving and the slide is not shaking? Come on. Quoted: Quoted: Uncommanded. It only requires a screw jammed into the action to prove. Its 1MM of movement. What's next? You gonna tell me holsters don't move triggers? People don't bump their guns? So if you get in a fight! You are throwing your body around. Gun is getting slammed up against wall, or you are rolling on the ground. The trigger is not moving and the slide is not shaking? Come on. I allowed for this in this very thread. Come on. If it’s so easy to replicate it should be easy to replicate. Without jamming a screw in the action. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Here is someone else with a youtube short that does the same thing. https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Sv7wZSBO5sQIt is not linking properly but it is here: https://youtube.com/shorts/Sv7wZSBO5sQ?si=AL0A-9S1j_qGt5Tg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sv7wZSBO5sQLol, wow |
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Quoted: I think the “thin trigger guard leading to holster rubbing the trigger” theory could have some merit Quoted: Quoted: Who has 2mm of lint, dirt, sand or donut dust? Come on. Glackman even says “Yes, the trigger is being “manipulated” but not really.” Rofl. It’s being manipulated. But it isn’t. But it really is. I think the “thin trigger guard leading to holster rubbing the trigger” theory could have some merit Should be super easy to replicate then. |