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Quoted: TLDR: He gets five discharges. He pinned the trigger back 1mm and wiggles the slide. SIGUSA says: "The P320 meets and exceeds all industry safety standards" and "The P320 CANNOT, under any circumstances, discharge without a trigger pull. This is verified through extensive testing by SIG SAUER, the U.S. Military, elite law enforcement agencies, and independent laboratories." Bullshit! If you own a P320 you need to watch the full video. My think, full stop. If your trigger return spring is weak. You may have a compromised gun. All of you should test your guns. The youtuber says it's a post upgrade gun with only sights being changed. If that is not a shit design I don't know what is. Non SIG P320 owners. Watch the first 11 mins. You get the full gist of what he is doing.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOMQOtOQoPkAdded video. Shows same problem. Different youtuber. 23 seconds long. Worth watching. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sv7wZSBO5sQvideo 2 slight pressure on the trigger, wiggle slide, thing goes bang not good . |
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Quoted: This is where I am, too. If the trigger is pulled back 1mm, You are pulling the trigger. How is that happening with holstered weapons? Trigger is wide,holster may be rubbing on side of trigger just enough to take up the free play. Move/bump grip while slide is firmly in holster and pop,get a tourniquet |
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Quoted: I get that it shouldn't fire with the trigger pulled halfway back and the slide wiggled, but how does this explain all of the "it was just sitting in its holster and went off" claims? I mean, he's literally pulling the trigger. Do you consider it normal that your gun will go off just taking up the pre-travel slack? WTF would you say to your jury when holding someone at gunpoint that doesn’t quite deserve to be shot dead yet, but your P320 put a round thru his grape while he was compliant and had his hands up? |
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Quoted: Right next to your Remington R51's Quoted: Quoted: You guys go ahead and dump your P320s. I'll keep mine. In 50 years whatever Only Fans model I bequeath my estate to will be sitting on some rare and valuable pistols. Right next to your Remington R51's |
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Quoted: Sig response: the manual will be updated to tell folks not to pull the trigger 1mm and then wiggle the slide.  It should take them a month to update all the ISO 9001:20XX paperwork to include this valuable information. Knowing the Germans they'll also sell you a special gauge that you have to surgically attach to your right trigger finger only. Otherwise you will void your warranty. |
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Quoted: Pull the trigger until you know it’s about to break then raise the rear of the slide. It’s a shitty characteristic but not the smoking gun people say it is. The amount that they are moving the trigger is not "about to break" or almost at the "wall" as others have said. I would be interested in measuring more carefully if this is really 1mm and what the total amount of travel is. So what percentage of the travel is taken up to get it to be able to fire by pushing down on the slide. I do not have any SIG 320s to test. Tried it with a few Walthers. You know what happened already. Nothing. Not at 1mm travel. Not at the wall. Not pushing on the front or the back of the slide. No clicky. Reminder: Anyone trying this with a weapon should be extremely careful with making sure empty and keeping ammo away from the bench. Check literally every time. |
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This has made me curious about my carry gun so I’ve been trying to replicate this with my carry gun (different Maker) using a pair of locking pliers. • Make weapon safe (remove mag and set aside with ejected round, check chamber, check magwell, check chamber again, drop slide) • Pull trigger and charge (rack slide) • Place plier jaws against trigger face and slowly allow forward travel till it resets • Apply some rearward pressure against and just into wall and lock pliers down Can’t recreate. |
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Quoted: No. Did you look at the second video I posted in the OP? Quoted: Quoted: OP: change the thread title. Forcing a screw into the trigger action does not equal “un-commanded discharge” No. Did you look at the second video I posted in the OP? The failure of the Cohen Sig/Singh Saar P320 in the Omaha Outdoors drop tests constitutes an uncommanded discharge. Notice how the trigger moves throughout its full range of motion upon impact beginning @1:43 of the video following:  Sig Sauer P320 Fails Drop Test The screw illustrates the absence or removal of slack, pre-travel, et cetera of about 1mm prior to the 90° position or wall of the trigger break. The P320 FCU functions similar to a two-stage trigger, but with simultaneous "slaving" of downward movement on the sear and upward movement on the safety lever lock/block at the first stage. The gentleman of Wyoming Gun Project appears to isolate the condition for an uncommanded discharge without the force of impact. |
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Quoted: Obviously not, but people are getting shot.. So what is it? This is the closest we have gotten. Something is stacking the trigger and slides are getting bumped which results in a discharge. What else could it be? Quoted: Quoted: Should be super easy to replicate then. Obviously not, but people are getting shot.. So what is it? This is the closest we have gotten. Something is stacking the trigger and slides are getting bumped which results in a discharge. What else could it be? Not trying to argue, really. Just saying there are no juries who would say it’s Sig’s fault when there’s f*cking screw hanging out of the frame. That’s why I said that. Make it happen easily and repeatedly. Again, Sig needs to fix this. But it’s just like a car - you need to be able to replicate the issue without a screw before the mechanic can fix it. |
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Quoted: Pull the trigger until you know it’s about to break then raise the rear of the slide. It’s a shitty characteristic but not the smoking gun people say it is. So, holster the gun with my finger pulling the trigger almost to break, and then push the slide to fire. That's the smoking gun? 
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Quoted: The amount that they are moving the trigger is not "about to break" or almost at the "wall" as others have said. I would be interested in measuring more carefully if this is really 1mm and what the total amount of travel is. So what percentage of the travel is taken up to get it to be able to fire by pushing down on the slide. I do not have any SIG 320s to test. Tried it with a few Walthers. You know what happened already. Nothing. Not at 1mm travel. Not at the wall. Not pushing on the front or the back of the slide. No clicky. Reminder: Anyone trying this with a weapon should be extremely careful with making sure empty and keeping ammo away from the bench. Check literally every time. Of course a Walther doesn't; Walther uses a completely different sear arrangement which moves horizontally. You might get a different result if you pull the trigger to the wall then give it a good rap on the back of the slide; Walther's sear arrangement is vulnerable to a muzzle up drop or similar blow. They significantly reduced the vulnerability by removing the vestigial lever on top of the sear with the PDP, but I bet it'll still go with a little pressure from the trigger. |
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Quoted: Not trying to argue, really. Just saying there are no juries who would say it’s Sig’s fault when there’s f*cking screw hanging out of the frame. That’s why I said that. Make it happen easily and repeatedly. Again, Sig needs to fix this. But it’s just like a car - you need to be able to replicate the issue without a screw before the mechanic can fix it. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Should be super easy to replicate then. Obviously not, but people are getting shot.. So what is it? This is the closest we have gotten. Something is stacking the trigger and slides are getting bumped which results in a discharge. What else could it be? Not trying to argue, really. Just saying there are no juries who would say it’s Sig’s fault when there’s f*cking screw hanging out of the frame. That’s why I said that. Make it happen easily and repeatedly. Again, Sig needs to fix this. But it’s just like a car - you need to be able to replicate the issue without a screw before the mechanic can fix it. You seem hyper fixated on the screw and this one specific video. For starters, no one is showing this video to a jury nor is any professional testing conducted for the purposes of a lawsuit going to use a deck screw, so let’s move past that. What this video (and by default, the screw) does show us is a starting point. It’s a single sample size that demonstrates how a P320 can be discharged without a complete cycling of the trigger. Since tolerances exist and this is a single sample size, we have no way to know how far to one end of the spectrum this specific gun sits. Could a different gun only require 1/4mm or 1/2mm movement before any jostling of the slide results in a discharge? Maybe even less? It’s certainly plausible and something that needs examined more closely. In much the same vein, the screw is simply an analog. There are any number of reasons the trigger of a gun could possibly fail to reset completely to its fully forward position (dirt/debris, weak springs, etc). You may think 1mm of debris may be a lot, but it’s certainly not out of the realm of possibility, doubly so if other guns may be susceptible to this issue with even less trigger pre-loading. The gun also needs to be examined to see if any previous manipulation of the trigger which is then released can still leave the gun in a state where slide jostling could cause it to discharge. I think the two important takeaways here are as follows: 1. The final method in which the gun is being discharged (slide jostling) lines up with many of the videos we’ve seen of uncommanded discharges. Something that, until now, only seemed to be a bit of a guess. It could also account for the reproducibility issues with “problem” guns, given the random nature of a large enough piece of debris/dirt getting lodged in just the right spot to cause this issue. 2. Even with the trigger needing to be manipulated a small amount for this to work, it’s still something that should not be happening and very likely wouldn’t happen with a better designed weapon. |
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Quoted: Not trying to argue, really. Just saying there are no juries who would say it’s Sig’s fault when there’s f*cking screw hanging out of the frame. That’s why I said that. Make it happen easily and repeatedly. Again, Sig needs to fix this. But it’s just like a car - you need to be able to replicate the issue without a screw before the mechanic can fix it. No one can do it, including SIG. They say nothing is wrong. Obviously something is wrong. The only fix I can possibly see working. Is a trigger dingus to stop trigger movement and a grip safety to lock the sear from moving down. Both should be doable. Hopefully someone comes along to provide a fix and save SIGs ass in the process. |
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Quoted: No one can do it including SIG. They say nothing is wrong. Obviously something is wrong. The only fix I can possibly see working, is a trigger dingus to stop trigger movement and a grip safety to lock the sear from moving down. Both should be doable. Hopefully someone comes along to provide a fix and save SIGs ass in the process. Grip safety + Trigger Safety Tab => That sounds a lot like an XD. I'd rather have the XD in that case. |
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Quoted: So if you have a weak return spring and a bad holster that allows the slide to be jostled it is a possibility. I mean, if that’s repeatable, maybe it’s even a proof point. But this would shoot your own (heh) conjecture in the foot since the guy in the video’s gun doesn’t have that. He has to literally put a wood screw in the frame to hold the trigger back enough to make the mechanism susceptible to such manipulation. I can’t imagine the hue and cry if we defeated a safety or two on any other gun and started slagging it. Earned reputation or not, this is not how engineering or science fixes this problem. Again so nobody thinks I’m white-knighting Sig: There is fire with this smoke; even as a Sig P22X fan and P320 owner, I want Sig to fix this. Most leo use a safariland ALS holster.. I have several, the retention locks into the ejection port UNLIKE the cheap Amazon non retention holster used by the youtuber in the video... so lets go with the weak trigger return spring theory.... your gun is locked into your $174 holster which is the most common duty holster in the USA and you shift your weight causing the gun to shift in the holster the retention block is going to jam into the edge of the slides ejection port causing pressure on the slide VERY similar to that applied by the youtuber.... BANG, take the most recent fatality Safariland ALS with as mine are equipped with GLS mount.... remove holster and lay it on desk gun shifts slightly in the holster and the retention block puts pressure on the slide at the ejection port... BANG |
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From the SIG P320 manual , para 2.0.1, page 4: Consistent with individual operators' philosophies of use, SIG SAUER offers the P320 with and without a manual safety, and the decision whether to deploy a manual safety rests with the operator. This is an important decision that must consider several factors, including the intended use of the firearm (e.g., law enforcement, defensive carry, home defense, range use, competition), level of firearms experience and training, frequency of practice, holster selection, and carry position, among others. The internal safeties on the P320 are designed to prevent it from firing without the trigger being fully pulled. When the trigger is pulled or depressed, even unintentionally whether by a finger or foreign object the P320 firearm will fire as designed. When engaged, a manual safety locks the trigger and prevents it from being accidentally or intentionally pulled, providing additional protection from unintentional discharge. However, an engaged manual safety will also prevent an operator from firing their pistol even when they need it to fire if the manual safety is not first disengaged. That section is labeled 'Manual Safeties', but does not specifically state it only applies to manual safety equipped models. A couple of items: 1. I understand why he used the screw... but you have to admit that it at least looks sketchy. It's also not quantifiably measurable. Yes, he used calipers to measure the take-up, but it wasn't measured at a consistent location. 2. Based on SIG's own manual, that small amount of rearward travel should not have been sufficient for the striker to drop. So, based on SIG's own manual, it shouldn't be dropping the striker with that little rearward movement. The method may be wonky, but I don't consider it to be fully invalidated. We could be seeing the results of tolerance stacking, MIM parts, or even MIM parts 'Made in India'. Various sources claim that SIG uses multiple sources, so it is not definitive that a lack of QC on Indian parts is the cause. I think the Wyoming Gun Project video is another data point (that looks less than optimal for SIG), but it needs to be recreated using better methodology to be validated. m NOTE: I don't own a SIG, Glock, or any other striker fired pistols. I have no dog in this hunt. |
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Quoted: I just did what he did, mine wouldn't do it. Doesnt mean other P320s won't do it. That's the funny thing about tolerance stack. I had a thread a while back about modifying the Shield Arms mag catch to better engage the magazine. There were a bunch of posters giving me shit because "it worked as is". What they couldnt understand is the fact that it barely worked and I wanted a margin of overlap so it was more certain to work. Looking at the 320 mechanism does not instill confidence in me. There are too many interfaces that are "on the edge of working". When you have such a mechanism, introducing real world effects such as part wear, spring fatigue, dirt, tolerance stack, deflection under load, failures can be induced. Btw: I have gone away from the shield mags for that exact reason. Even with mods, they have less than 1/3 of the mag catch engagement of the Dagger mags. When it comes to margins of error between working and not working on things like guns, cars, climbing rope, I like plenty. Not "just enough". |
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Quoted: 0.09" is about three sheets of paper thick. Quoted: Quoted: Edmund measured it at 0.09 inches, which is more than 2mm, but I'm guessing his measurements are a bit more accurate than the guy in OP's video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0MpcFEXWhcThat's some thick paper.
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Quoted: Yea The one time I took my FCU apart I thought this thing is over complicated. I like the Ruger example of a FCU for a Glock vs what Sig has done. Second time Sig has got me, first time was the SIG 556, luckily I was able to sell it. Not a bad rifle just not what I thought it would be. I have survived too much crazy stuff in life to trust carrying a P320 over my trusted G19. Quoted: Quoted: To many moving parts, not even close to PERFECTION.  Why yes, yes I went there. The one time I took my FCU apart I thought this thing is over complicated. I like the Ruger example of a FCU for a Glock vs what Sig has done. Second time Sig has got me, first time was the SIG 556, luckily I was able to sell it. Not a bad rifle just not what I thought it would be. I have survived too much crazy stuff in life to trust carrying a P320 over my trusted G19. Same goes for the 365, imho. The m400 Tread (AR) has been great. The old school Sig pistols are legendarily good. I dont know what has happened at Sig for them to produce such products as these pistols. |
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Quoted: That's the funny thing about tolerance stack. I had a thread a while back about modifying the Shield Arms mag catch to better engage the magazine. There were a bunch of posters giving me shit because "it worked as is". What they couldnt understand is the fact that it barely worked and I wanted a margin of overlap so it was more certain to work. Looking at the 320 mechanism does not instill confidence in me. There are too many interfaces that are "on the edge of working". When you have such a mechanism, introducing real world effects such as part wear, spring fatigue, dirt, tolerance stack, deflection under load, failures can be induced. Btw: I have gone away from the shield mags for that exact reason. Even with mods, they have less than 1/3 of the mag catch engagement of the Dagger mags. When it comes to margins of error between working and not working on things like guns, cars, climbing rope, I like plenty. Not "just enough". |
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Quoted: so... fuck Sig. But technically, he moved the trigger back. |
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Quoted: When looking at his gun to start with that thing is fucked up. So much slop between the slide and frame. I wish he had performed that same test on another gun that didn't have all that slop. Quoted: Quoted: That's the funny thing about tolerance stack. I had a thread a while back about modifying the Shield Arms mag catch to better engage the magazine. There were a bunch of posters giving me shit because "it worked as is". What they couldnt understand is the fact that it barely worked and I wanted a margin of overlap so it was more certain to work. Looking at the 320 mechanism does not instill confidence in me. There are too many interfaces that are "on the edge of working". When you have such a mechanism, introducing real world effects such as part wear, spring fatigue, dirt, tolerance stack, deflection under load, failures can be induced. Btw: I have gone away from the shield mags for that exact reason. Even with mods, they have less than 1/3 of the mag catch engagement of the Dagger mags. When it comes to margins of error between working and not working on things like guns, cars, climbing rope, I like plenty. Not "just enough". I take every youtuber with a grain of salt. I had a 320 and didnt care for it all all except for the concept and the grip module I got was very ergonomic. There may or may not be a bunch of gun-fault discharges. We've been hearing about "glock leg" for 30 years, so... The youtuber may or may not have been above board in that video. I dont know. The problem with intermittent failure is they are a pain in the ass. Repeatable failure modes are relatively easy. When you cannot diagnose the failure mode and get it to repeat, you have nothing to fix. I think the failure shown in the vid is not the failure experienced in the alleged ADs in the field, if there are legit ADs. But I do think it could be a symptom of whatever the problem actually is, if there is one. But, I will say, that is one convoluted mechanism and I wouldn't trust it, personally. Same with the 365. Just my .02 |
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Quoted: My guess is there is no fix, a redesign is needed. It's a epic mess they have gotten into. Quoted: Quoted: Why haven't P320's been recalled? They should have recalled them to try and save the company. As it is now Sig will put out dangerous or faulty designs and then deny deny deny. How can anyone trust a company like that. If they come out with a new design, then what? Are we supposed to trust them? |
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Quoted: You seem hyper fixated on the screw and this one specific video. For starters, no one is showing this video to a jury nor is any professional testing conducted for the purposes of a lawsuit going to use a deck screw, so let’s move past that. What this video (and by default, the screw) does show us is a starting point. It’s a single sample size that demonstrates how a P320 can be discharged without a complete cycling of the trigger. Since tolerances exist and this is a single sample size, we have no way to know how far to one end of the spectrum this specific gun sits. Could a different gun only require 1/4mm or 1/2mm movement before any jostling of the slide results in a discharge? Maybe even less? It’s certainly plausible and something that needs examined more closely. In much the same vein, the screw is simply an analog. There are any number of reasons the trigger of a gun could possibly fail to reset completely to its fully forward position (dirt/debris, weak springs, etc). You may think 1mm of debris may be a lot, but it’s certainly not out of the realm of possibility, doubly so if other guns may be susceptible to this issue with even less trigger pre-loading. The gun also needs to be examined to see if any previous manipulation of the trigger which is then released can still leave the gun in a state where slide jostling could cause it to discharge. I think the two important takeaways here are as follows: 1. The final method in which the gun is being discharged (slide jostling) lines up with many of the videos we’ve seen of uncommanded discharges. Something that, until now, only seemed to be a bit of a guess. 2. Even with the trigger needing to be manipulated a small amount for this to work, it’s still something that should not be happening and very likely wouldn’t happen with a better designed weapon. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Should be super easy to replicate then. Obviously not, but people are getting shot.. So what is it? This is the closest we have gotten. Something is stacking the trigger and slides are getting bumped which results in a discharge. What else could it be? Not trying to argue, really. Just saying there are no juries who would say it’s Sig’s fault when there’s f*cking screw hanging out of the frame. That’s why I said that. Make it happen easily and repeatedly. Again, Sig needs to fix this. But it’s just like a car - you need to be able to replicate the issue without a screw before the mechanic can fix it. You seem hyper fixated on the screw and this one specific video. For starters, no one is showing this video to a jury nor is any professional testing conducted for the purposes of a lawsuit going to use a deck screw, so let’s move past that. What this video (and by default, the screw) does show us is a starting point. It’s a single sample size that demonstrates how a P320 can be discharged without a complete cycling of the trigger. Since tolerances exist and this is a single sample size, we have no way to know how far to one end of the spectrum this specific gun sits. Could a different gun only require 1/4mm or 1/2mm movement before any jostling of the slide results in a discharge? Maybe even less? It’s certainly plausible and something that needs examined more closely. In much the same vein, the screw is simply an analog. There are any number of reasons the trigger of a gun could possibly fail to reset completely to its fully forward position (dirt/debris, weak springs, etc). You may think 1mm of debris may be a lot, but it’s certainly not out of the realm of possibility, doubly so if other guns may be susceptible to this issue with even less trigger pre-loading. The gun also needs to be examined to see if any previous manipulation of the trigger which is then released can still leave the gun in a state where slide jostling could cause it to discharge. I think the two important takeaways here are as follows: 1. The final method in which the gun is being discharged (slide jostling) lines up with many of the videos we’ve seen of uncommanded discharges. Something that, until now, only seemed to be a bit of a guess. 2. Even with the trigger needing to be manipulated a small amount for this to work, it’s still something that should not be happening and very likely wouldn’t happen with a better designed weapon. I’m only pointing out the screw since everyone keeps saying “uncommanded discharge” and keeps having to say “ignore the screw”. That’s like me saying “glocks and other guns have uncommanded discharges when reholstering. Ignore the string from my fleece jacket that dropped into the holster” … so bear that in mind. If you have to make your argument, then instantly reframe it to make your point, it’s not really an argument, is it? What I’m trying to do is help refine the discussion point - can this happen if the conditions are right (we have our answer there)? And, what are those conditions? (Still working on those- getting closer with every P320 thread ).Like I said, I’m not arguing with you or OP. I do think Sig needs to recall or buy back the guns. |
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Quoted: Grip safety + Trigger Safety Tab => That sounds a lot like an XD. I'd rather have the XD in that case. Quoted: Quoted: No one can do it including SIG. They say nothing is wrong. Obviously something is wrong. The only fix I can possibly see working, is a trigger dingus to stop trigger movement and a grip safety to lock the sear from moving down. Both should be doable. Hopefully someone comes along to provide a fix and save SIGs ass in the process. Grip safety + Trigger Safety Tab => That sounds a lot like an XD. I'd rather have the XD in that case. I don’t think a grip safety is in the mix personally, it would require a whole new chassis. Trigger dingus for sure, maybe a thumb safety (as a 1911 guy that’s my woobie, I know lots of guys aren’t) |
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Quoted: I don’t think a grip safety is in the mix personally, it would require a whole new chassis. Trigger dingus for sure, maybe a thumb safety (as a 1911 guy that’s my woobie, I know lots of guys aren’t) Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: No one can do it including SIG. They say nothing is wrong. Obviously something is wrong. The only fix I can possibly see working, is a trigger dingus to stop trigger movement and a grip safety to lock the sear from moving down. Both should be doable. Hopefully someone comes along to provide a fix and save SIGs ass in the process. Grip safety + Trigger Safety Tab => That sounds a lot like an XD. I'd rather have the XD in that case. I don’t think a grip safety is in the mix personally, it would require a whole new chassis. Trigger dingus for sure, maybe a thumb safety (as a 1911 guy that’s my woobie, I know lots of guys aren’t) Dont want to put a bandaid on it. The failure mode needs to be identified and fully understood before any remedial design would be legitimate. |
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Quoted: I don't think we really disagree.  Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: It would be an " un-commanded" discharge if he just picked it up and wiggled/jiggled it, or shook it or whatever. But as soon as he STARTS pulling the trigger back - regardless of how far back he pulls it - he loses ANY claim to the phrase "un-commanded" The trigger on a firearm serves one function, and that is to discharge the firearm. If he can make the firearm discharge without touching the trigger, then his claim would be valid. He ABSOLUTELY has demonstrated a bad design, no question. I agree with you. A terrible trigger/safety design? Probably. But he has not demonstrated an "un-commanded" discharge. OK I'll give you that. He is stacking the trigger. But it's a shit design. Not rated for duty use. If that is all it takes, that explains a lot of these discharges. I don't think we really disagree. Maybe its better to say that line between "commanded" and "uncommanded" is extraordnarily narrow with a P320 trigger. |
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Quoted: Pull the trigger until you know it’s about to break then raise the rear of the slide. It’s a shitty characteristic but not the smoking gun people say it is. Quoted: Quoted: Tried it on my M17, cant get it to fire. Is it broken? Pull the trigger until you know it’s about to break then raise the rear of the slide. It’s a shitty characteristic but not the smoking gun people say it is. I tried it with my P320 X-Compact, and nothing happened. However, mine didn't have anywhere near the slide play his did. Mine is very new, has a very low round count and I've never attempted to remove the FCU from the grip frame. I've noticed that with the P365 that if you keep messing with the FCU it starts to get a little looser. Plastic starts to deform a bit, pin holes stsrt to get out of round, etc. I kept going back and forth on the Wilson Combat and OEM because I couldn't decide which I liked better, and the OEM did start to get a little looser. |
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Quoted: so... fuck Sig. But technically, he moved the trigger back. But SIG says in the manual, "The internal safeties on the P320 are designed to prevent it from firing without the trigger being fully pulled." "FULLY PULLED." This gun is not working as designed. |
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The OMG he pulled the trigger people are really ok with a pistol which slight trigger pull is enough to allow a bump to the slide ro cause it to fire? I’m responsible for every round that leaves a gun. I dammed sure don’t want a gun that can decide on it’s own before a full trigger pull to send a round, Imagine being in a stressed shooting situation, you put pressure on the trigger but don’t have the target perfect, and then bang the gun on cover only to realize you just shot someone by accident because the gun sent the round in it’s own? I’m sorry, that gun is a great way to end someone else's life, or your own via lawsuits. Range toy maybe. But not a practical carry/duty handgun. |
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Quoted: Dont want to put a bandaid on it. The failure mode needs to be identified and fully understood before any remedial design would be legitimate. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: No one can do it including SIG. They say nothing is wrong. Obviously something is wrong. The only fix I can possibly see working, is a trigger dingus to stop trigger movement and a grip safety to lock the sear from moving down. Both should be doable. Hopefully someone comes along to provide a fix and save SIGs ass in the process. Grip safety + Trigger Safety Tab => That sounds a lot like an XD. I'd rather have the XD in that case. I don’t think a grip safety is in the mix personally, it would require a whole new chassis. Trigger dingus for sure, maybe a thumb safety (as a 1911 guy that’s my woobie, I know lots of guys aren’t) Dont want to put a bandaid on it. The failure mode needs to be identified and fully understood before any remedial design would be legitimate. Agree 100% |
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I skimmed through the OP video in about 30 seconds, a gun firing when the trigger is pulled doesn’t concern me. The next recommended video YouTube showed is below and is 3 years old. It’s quite informative, skip to 18:42 for a TLDR summary of the dimensions and movement required to fire the gun. About 1mm is the trigger travel needed to disengage the striker safety, so in the OP video the issue is that the striker releases at all, not that the striker safety is disengaged by the screw he puts in the trigger. So if a 320 can fire without the trigger moving at all two mechanical features have failed (striker safety and the striker being released). If somebody discovers the combination of parts/wear that allows that to happen the 320 will probably be done.  P320 - STRIKER SAFETY DISENGAGEMENT PARAMETERS |
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Quoted: Stop babbling about the screw, that's not the issue. The issue is that even SIG says that it can only be fired with a full trigger press as an above poster stated. For you SIG apologists or SIG deniers...this is from your manual: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/49398/SIGWarning-3595212.jpg You seem angry. Everyone’s trying to figure this out. |
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Quoted: They should have recalled them to try and save the company. As it is now Sig will put out dangerous or faulty designs and then deny deny deny. How can anyone trust a company like that. If they come out with a new design, then what? Are we supposed to trust them? Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Why haven't P320's been recalled? They should have recalled them to try and save the company. As it is now Sig will put out dangerous or faulty designs and then deny deny deny. How can anyone trust a company like that. If they come out with a new design, then what? Are we supposed to trust them? It seems the internal safeties release too early in the cycle. How could you possibly fix that? I think Sig knows exactly what the problem is. |