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Posted: 9/10/2013 10:20:18 PM EDT
[#1]
Sadam Hussein thinks so....
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Posted: 9/10/2013 10:22:59 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
It seems we went into a rather rapid decline after 9/11 loss of civil liberties and such. government expanded. privacy removed. etc. I mostly agree regarding .gov. Do y'all remember how friendly and polite and just generally better everyone acted towards each other following 9/11? That lasted a little while. Not long enough. Patriot Act scared me to death. Only one vote against. Ron Paul. Because no one had read it, had no idea what was in the thing. And didn't Bush, or someone in the administration, openly threaten anyone who voted against it as being a traitor, a terrorist, and being treated as such? It was war, no mistake, but just like FBHO "care" they had to pass it to see what's in it. And that is completely fucked up no matter the circumstance. |
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Posted: 9/10/2013 10:24:26 PM EDT
[#3]
It gave liberals the "do it for safety" excuses they wanted to ram a lot of new rules through and cause a lot of damage. So yeah, in a way it did make the country worst.
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Posted: 9/10/2013 10:24:27 PM EDT
[#4]
Airports sure as hell suck now. But hey, we're not letting the terrorists win! Were just allowing them to scare us into changing our way of life for the worse.
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Posted: 9/10/2013 10:26:42 PM EDT
[#5]
Definitely agree; not that we weren't headed this way but it obviously pushed the timetable forward.
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Posted: 9/10/2013 10:28:57 PM EDT
[#6]
Yes, no question about it.
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Posted: 9/10/2013 10:30:20 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I mostly agree regarding .gov. Do y'all remember how friendly and polite and just generally better everyone acted towards each other following 9/11? That lasted a little while. Not long enough. Patriot Act scared me to death. Only one vote against. Ron Paul. Because no one had read it, had no idea what was in the thing. And didn't Bush, or someone in the administration, openly threaten anyone who voted against it as being a traitor, a terrorist, and being treated as such? It was war, no mistake, but just like FBHO "care" they had to pass it to see what's in it. And that is completely fucked up no matter the circumstance. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It seems we went into a rather rapid decline after 9/11 loss of civil liberties and such. government expanded. privacy removed. etc. I mostly agree regarding .gov. Do y'all remember how friendly and polite and just generally better everyone acted towards each other following 9/11? That lasted a little while. Not long enough. Patriot Act scared me to death. Only one vote against. Ron Paul. Because no one had read it, had no idea what was in the thing. And didn't Bush, or someone in the administration, openly threaten anyone who voted against it as being a traitor, a terrorist, and being treated as such? It was war, no mistake, but just like FBHO "care" they had to pass it to see what's in it. And that is completely fucked up no matter the circumstance. Damn didn't know he was the only one to vote against it. Who's the nutjob now? 
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Posted: 9/10/2013 10:33:47 PM EDT
[#8]
I think it more just exposed what America had become. Weeping wimps.
An earlier America would have simply rebuilt the Twin Towers, but taller. |
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Posted: 9/10/2013 10:34:21 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Damn didn't know he was the only one to vote against it. Who's the nutjob now? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
It seems we went into a rather rapid decline after 9/11 loss of civil liberties and such. government expanded. privacy removed. etc. I mostly agree regarding .gov. Do y'all remember how friendly and polite and just generally better everyone acted towards each other following 9/11? That lasted a little while. Not long enough. Patriot Act scared me to death. Only one vote against. Ron Paul. Because no one had read it, had no idea what was in the thing. And didn't Bush, or someone in the administration, openly threaten anyone who voted against it as being a traitor, a terrorist, and being treated as such? It was war, no mistake, but just like FBHO "care" they had to pass it to see what's in it. And that is completely fucked up no matter the circumstance. Damn didn't know he was the only one to vote against it. Who's the nutjob now? Oh, he stood up and delivered quite a lecture prior to the vote. They were handed a ~ 2,000 page Patriot Act and required to vote on it the next day. Paul was basically just saying, "Hey, hold on now, let's look at this, understand it." |
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Posted: 9/10/2013 10:35:05 PM EDT
[#10]
gee, ya think?
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Posted: 9/10/2013 10:38:53 PM EDT
[#11]
Um, I am a Ron Paul fan, but the only person to vote against the patriot act was über liberal Russ Feingold.
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Posted: 9/10/2013 10:53:46 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Um, I am a Ron Paul fan, but the only person to vote against the patriot act was über liberal Russ Feingold. Woah, reality instead of revisionist history from a 13er? Likely due to increased consumption of beer, cheese, and brats. 
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Posted: 9/10/2013 11:03:39 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think it more just exposed what America had become. Weeping wimps. An earlier America would have simply rebuilt the Twin Towers, but taller. An earlier America would have GONE AFTER THE PEOPLE THAT WANT US DEAD! Wasn't 2/26/93 enough of a warning? What's wrong with profiling? |
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Posted: 9/10/2013 11:05:45 PM EDT
[#14]
yep. Too much war too much spending too much deficits and that have given liberals leverage to take over and make things PERMANENTLY worse. The terrorists won. We should have carpet bombed all of afghanistan into dust and walked away with a stern warning not to do some shit like that again or the bombing will leave no survivors ins whatever village or country we could prove knew something about it.
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Posted: 9/10/2013 11:06:47 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Um, I am a Ron Paul fan, but the only person to vote against the patriot act was über liberal Russ Feingold. According to Wiki and its cited source, Ron Paul voted against it. "Paul broke with his party by voting against the PATRIOT Act in 2001; he also voted against its 2005 enactment.[122] He has spoken against federal use of what he defines as torture and what he sees as an abuse of executive authority during the Iraq War to override Constitutional rights.[123]" http://web.archive.org/web/20080301113325/http://www.house.gov/paul/tst/tst2004/tst061404.htm |
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Posted: 9/10/2013 11:20:18 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
According to Wiki and its cited source, Ron Paul voted against it. "Paul broke with his party by voting against the PATRIOT Act in 2001; he also voted against its 2005 enactment.[122] He has spoken against federal use of what he defines as torture and what he sees as an abuse of executive authority during the Iraq War to override Constitutional rights.[123]" http://web.archive.org/web/20080301113325/http://www.house.gov/paul/tst/tst2004/tst061404.htm Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Um, I am a Ron Paul fan, but the only person to vote against the patriot act was über liberal Russ Feingold. According to Wiki and its cited source, Ron Paul voted against it. "Paul broke with his party by voting against the PATRIOT Act in 2001; he also voted against its 2005 enactment.[122] He has spoken against federal use of what he defines as torture and what he sees as an abuse of executive authority during the Iraq War to override Constitutional rights.[123]" http://web.archive.org/web/20080301113325/http://www.house.gov/paul/tst/tst2004/tst061404.htm What are you gonna believe, Wikipedia, or your own lying eyes? Video of Feingold |
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Posted: 9/10/2013 11:22:28 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Um, I am a Ron Paul fan, but the only person to vote against the patriot act was über liberal Russ Feingold. According to Wiki and its cited source, Ron Paul voted against it. "Paul broke with his party by voting against the PATRIOT Act in 2001; he also voted against its 2005 enactment.[122] He has spoken against federal use of what he defines as torture and what he sees as an abuse of executive authority during the Iraq War to override Constitutional rights.[123]" http://web.archive.org/web/20080301113325/http://www.house.gov/paul/tst/tst2004/tst061404.htm What are you gonna believe, Wikipedia, or your own lying eyes? Video of Feingold |
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Posted: 9/10/2013 11:23:57 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
article says one senator. Ron Paul isnt a Senator. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Um, I am a Ron Paul fan, but the only person to vote against the patriot act was über liberal Russ Feingold. According to Wiki and its cited source, Ron Paul voted against it. "Paul broke with his party by voting against the PATRIOT Act in 2001; he also voted against its 2005 enactment.[122] He has spoken against federal use of what he defines as torture and what he sees as an abuse of executive authority during the Iraq War to override Constitutional rights.[123]" http://web.archive.org/web/20080301113325/http://www.house.gov/paul/tst/tst2004/tst061404.htm What are you gonna believe, Wikipedia, or your own lying eyes? Video of Feingold Lol! Good point! |
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Posted: 9/10/2013 11:26:45 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Um, I am a Ron Paul fan, but the only person to vote against the patriot act was über liberal Russ Feingold. According to Wiki and its cited source, Ron Paul voted against it. "Paul broke with his party by voting against the PATRIOT Act in 2001; he also voted against its 2005 enactment.[122] He has spoken against federal use of what he defines as torture and what he sees as an abuse of executive authority during the Iraq War to override Constitutional rights.[123]" http://web.archive.org/web/20080301113325/http://www.house.gov/paul/tst/tst2004/tst061404.htm What are you gonna believe, Wikipedia, or your own lying eyes? Video of Feingold Why don't you try the actual voter roll call. Only senator to vote no in 2001 was feingold. Ten voted against the 06 act revamp. 66 Congressmen voted against the 2001 including Paul. 138 voted against the 06 revamp, again including Paul. http://educate-yourself.org/cn/patriotact20012006senatevote.shtml He wasn't standing alone in either hearing. |
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Posted: 9/10/2013 11:38:33 PM EDT
[#20]
Here's the other side of the coin:
The WTC attack made it obvious that the government can't be relied upon to protect you. In some regards, it was like the entire nation was being collectively mugged - and dialing 911 wasn't going to help. Consequently, a lot of folks resolved to become more self-sufficient that day. After being neglected for almost 4 decades, preparedness once again became fashionable. |
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Posted: 9/10/2013 11:43:48 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
An earlier America would have GONE AFTER THE PEOPLE THAT WANT US DEAD! Wasn't 2/26/93 enough of a warning? What's wrong with profiling? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I think it more just exposed what America had become. Weeping wimps. An earlier America would have simply rebuilt the Twin Towers, but taller. An earlier America would have GONE AFTER THE PEOPLE THAT WANT US DEAD! Wasn't 2/26/93 enough of a warning? What's wrong with profiling? You want the effective type of profiling or the kind advocated by people with bumper stickers that read: "Everything I need to know about Islam I learned on 9/11." |
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Posted: 9/10/2013 11:44:43 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Here's the other side of the coin: The WTC attack made it obvious that the government can't be relied upon to protect you. |
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Posted: 9/10/2013 11:46:32 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Oh, he stood up and delivered quite a lecture prior to the vote. They were handed a ~ 2,000 page Patriot Act and required to vote on it the next day. Paul was basically just saying, "Hey, hold on now, let's look at this, understand it." Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: It seems we went into a rather rapid decline after 9/11 loss of civil liberties and such. government expanded. privacy removed. etc. I mostly agree regarding .gov. Do y'all remember how friendly and polite and just generally better everyone acted towards each other following 9/11? That lasted a little while. Not long enough. Patriot Act scared me to death. Only one vote against. Ron Paul. Because no one had read it, had no idea what was in the thing. And didn't Bush, or someone in the administration, openly threaten anyone who voted against it as being a traitor, a terrorist, and being treated as such? It was war, no mistake, but just like FBHO "care" they had to pass it to see what's in it. And that is completely fucked up no matter the circumstance. Damn didn't know he was the only one to vote against it. Who's the nutjob now? Oh, he stood up and delivered quite a lecture prior to the vote. They were handed a ~ 2,000 page Patriot Act and required to vote on it the next day. Paul was basically just saying, "Hey, hold on now, let's look at this, understand it."  |
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Posted: 9/10/2013 11:50:43 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You want the effective type of profiling or the kind advocated by people with bumper stickers that read: "Everything I need to know about Islam I learned on 9/11." Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I think it more just exposed what America had become. Weeping wimps. An earlier America would have simply rebuilt the Twin Towers, but taller. An earlier America would have GONE AFTER THE PEOPLE THAT WANT US DEAD! Wasn't 2/26/93 enough of a warning? What's wrong with profiling? You want the effective type of profiling or the kind advocated by people with bumper stickers that read: "Everything I need to know about Islam I learned on 9/11." To be fair I learned alot. |
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Posted: 9/11/2013 12:14:59 AM EDT
[#25]
Not for the worst. It made us more aware of our surroundings and who hates us. We lived in a world of Dot.Com booms and and how to keep up with the most popular material things to have. Sure it changed the culture. I hate that it happened ,but i think it gave us a wake up call for alot of Americans to think beyond
just America. It made us even more aware about local crimes. |
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Posted: 9/11/2013 12:24:40 AM EDT
[#26]
At that time, we didnt want to be in convienced. They were running us thru the airports like cattle. ( more passengers more money)
Do you think if we had guards at the airports like they have in the middle east, would it have happened? NO!! |
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Posted: 9/11/2013 12:26:26 AM EDT
[#27]
Without a doubt.
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Posted: 9/11/2013 2:47:58 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes, no question about it. |
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Posted: 9/11/2013 2:52:42 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
At that time, we didnt want to be in convienced. They were running us thru the airports like cattle. ( more passengers more money) Do you think if we had guards at the airports like they have in the middle east, would it have happened? NO!! I don't think airport guards would've changed a thing. |
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Posted: 9/11/2013 2:53:00 AM EDT
[#30]
Other than acts of individual heroism, not one single good thing has come from it.
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Posted: 9/11/2013 3:58:47 AM EDT
[#31]
Yes - Any patriotism and unification from it faded like a sun tan.
We lost way to many liberties and its being used as an excuse to further agendas to strengthen government and weaken individual liberty. Governments role has been "we need to grow to protect you" and its gotten to big, expensive and hasn't detoured terrorism. |
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Posted: 9/11/2013 4:02:03 AM EDT
[#32]
Right after 911 was the best time. It wasn't about left or right. It was all about reaching out to your fellow man because our country was in mourning.
But then as we got further and further away from 911 it just went back. |
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Posted: 9/11/2013 4:22:09 AM EDT
[#33]
Wiped out the budget surplus, encroachment on civil liberties, massive expansion of government, indirectly led to the war in Iraq ... yeah, they fucked us up all right.
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Posted: 9/11/2013 4:24:45 AM EDT
[#34]
Absolutely.
It's turned a lot of people into whiny little bitches about the freedom and protection this nation provides them. |
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Posted: 9/11/2013 4:38:10 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Absolutely. It's turned a lot of people into whiny little bitches about the freedom and protection this nation provides them. Think so? I think it made many including myself more aware of the "wolves in sheep clothing" who will use a tragedy to for personal gain and to further erode freedoms in the name of safety. |
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Posted: 9/11/2013 4:41:14 AM EDT
[#36]
Yes.
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Posted: 9/11/2013 4:42:44 AM EDT
[#37]
I think the door started to close on what we think of as American freedom back in the 80's. Of course, I was just a child so it's more a feeling than anything. I feel like 9/11 definitely ushered us into a new world. One nation under surveillance and all that...
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Posted: 9/11/2013 4:43:45 AM EDT
[#38]
Made me more aware of creeping sharia. All people of Islam are my enemy. i'm not blind to their deceit and end goal. On the bright side the federal "assault weapons" expired.
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Posted: 9/11/2013 4:47:08 AM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
It seems we went into a rather rapid decline after 9/11 loss of civil liberties and such. government expanded. privacy removed. etc. The forces that work against liberty always see opportunity in crisis. In truth, some necessary reforms to the way we gather and handle intelligence data took place after 9/11. We really were doing some absurd shit pre-9/11. Unfortunately it became clear that nobody wanted to be blamed for another 9/11 and so elected officials stopped doing meaningful oversight because all somebody in the .gov agencies had to do was intimate that if X wasn't done we'd be vulnerable to another 9/11. Which is Washington DC speak for "We're going to leak that you stopped the initiative that would have prevented the next 9/11." Politicians, being the craven little bastards that they are, went along with the program. Which is Washington DC speak for "We won't stop you, but if it becomes a controversy we're immediately going to throw you under the bus." |
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Posted: 9/11/2013 4:49:03 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Think so? I think it made many including myself more aware of the "wolves in sheep clothing" who will use a tragedy to for personal gain and to further erode freedoms in the name of safety. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Absolutely. It's turned a lot of people into whiny little bitches about the freedom and protection this nation provides them. Think so? I think it made many including myself more aware of the "wolves in sheep clothing" who will use a tragedy to for personal gain and to further erode freedoms in the name of safety. 
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Posted: 9/11/2013 4:50:12 AM EDT
[#41]
It was the opportunity the neo-conservatives were looking for.
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Posted: 9/11/2013 4:50:32 AM EDT
[#42]
Quoted: It seems we went into a rather rapid decline after 9/11 loss of civil liberties and such. government expanded. privacy removed. etc. |
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Posted: 9/11/2013 4:50:40 AM EDT
[#43]
I don't think 9/11 necessarily changed anything. Privacy and personal freedom had been taking it in the ass in this country for a while.
I do think it helped speed the process, though. |
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Posted: 9/11/2013 5:10:54 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The forces that work against liberty always see opportunity in crisis. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It seems we went into a rather rapid decline after 9/11 loss of civil liberties and such. government expanded. privacy removed. etc. The forces that work against liberty always see opportunity in crisis. Precisely. Liberals know full well they are dealing for the most part with an uninformed electorate, and govern after that crisis with that in mind. School shootings? Solution: increased gun laws. Response to 9/11? Every piece of big government legislation they can muster, all under the guise of increasing safety for the country. Unfortunately this response is all too often supported by Republicans, who are more than willing to accomodate their socialist adversaries across the aisle. |
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Posted: 9/11/2013 5:21:22 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Precisely. Liberals know full well they are dealing for the most part with an uninformed electorate, and govern after that crisis with that in mind. School shootings? Solution: increased gun laws. Response to 9/11? Every piece of big government legislation they can muster, all under the guise of increasing safety for the country. Unfortunately this response is all too often supported by Republicans, who are more than willing to accomodate their socialist adversaries across the aisle. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: It seems we went into a rather rapid decline after 9/11 loss of civil liberties and such. government expanded. privacy removed. etc. The forces that work against liberty always see opportunity in crisis. Precisely. Liberals know full well they are dealing for the most part with an uninformed electorate, and govern after that crisis with that in mind. School shootings? Solution: increased gun laws. Response to 9/11? Every piece of big government legislation they can muster, all under the guise of increasing safety for the country. Unfortunately this response is all too often supported by Republicans, who are more than willing to accomodate their socialist adversaries across the aisle. |
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Posted: 9/11/2013 6:25:25 AM EDT
[#46]
Yes. The freedom vs. security argument took a sharp turn in the wrong direction, with the full support of a lot of short sighted idiots who were fine with it because it was "their" guys doing it.
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Posted: 9/11/2013 7:05:29 AM EDT
[#47]
Well, the enemy has a strong ally in the White House, so I'd say yeah.
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Posted: 9/11/2013 7:07:50 AM EDT
[#48]
In some ways, yes. They won. Yes, we killed Bin Laden and killed many AQ, but they ulimtately achieved their strategic goal. They forced America to change it's stance on civil liberties. The sowed fear and discontent amongst the people.
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Posted: 9/11/2013 7:08:57 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes, no question about it. |
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Posted: 9/11/2013 7:12:59 AM EDT
[#50]
When Bush said "You're either with us or with the terrorists", little did we know that us meant big government and terrorists meant every American citizen.
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