[ARCHIVED THREAD] - GAME CHANGER: Toshiba develops EV battery that can go 200 Miles after only 6 minutes of charge (Page 3 of 5)
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I hate electric cars, but that's a big deal. Very cool. I love gasoline engines, but we are fast approaching the practical limit for performance. We are just starting with Electric, and the performance, not to mention power to weight possibilities are incredible. Either they were going to have to make the batteries swappable at a station, or batcaps to make it viable. The batcap is the best option, and if this pans out as true, I’m all in. |
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Why do people keep posting that crap? Has anyone even calculated the energy draw of 2 million EVs? Because that is less than 1% of the registered/titled vehicles. I do not care if you are talking off peak overnight hours, excluding the fact that there are industries that only run in those hours, that is a significant energy draw. Which takes even more time to get approved and built than a new coal power plant. |
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There has been a staggering amount of intellectual capital applied to the battery problem. It will be solved. |
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Now they need to spend a little on figuring out how to recharge them all every night because our national grid and power plants are not up to the task. Quoted:
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There has been a staggering amount of intellectual capital applied to the battery problem. It will be solved. |
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This is great news for the 8 year olds that dig up Elan Musk's Lithium for the electric cars. These kids need job security! https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/413300/lithium_mining_2-341836.JPG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/413300/lithium_mining-341837.JPG Lithium mining If the Belgians retake the Congo, they can make the place nice with really excellent beer. |
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Assume a 10kw/h battery. Now x10 to get it in 6minutes. Devise by volts. 900+ amp charger. Yes, the current electric grid can handle that... rofl. 
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Sounds more like a Super Capacitor battery hybrid than a pure battery. I wonder how long it would stay charged when not driven? a day? a week? If it holds the charge over a month reliably, then it's definately going to change things from phones to cars, but if it self-discharges whether you're driving or not, it will have limited utility. That's the biggest issue with super capacitors getting larger right now. |
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Why? I love gasoline engines, but we are fast approaching the practical limit for performance. We are just starting with Electric, and the performance, not to mention power to weight possibilities are incredible. Either they were going to have to make the batteries swappable at a station, or batcaps to make it viable. The batcap is the best option, and if this pans out as true, I’m all in. 
Edit: Hey, all you unemployed McDonalds guys that lost your jobs to robots...gotta deal for you! |
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They want to Make American Great Again by making sure that the oil/automotive complex which has been responsible for 2/3s to 3/4s of our trade deficit for 40 years now keeps on going. Also hoping for an American company that is a global leader in an emerging industry to fail while cheering on it's foreign competition... It's the only way America can truly be great again. |
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On the contrary. That new lithium battery would be a big help for them. Their cars currently run off of several thousand 18650 lithium batteries. These new batteries will shorten the Tesla car's charging time and increase their range. I've wondered why Tesla doesn't incorporate solar cells into the roof, hood, and trunk lid of their cars so they would be constantly charging the batteries as long as they were exposed to the sun. Would just require redesign of regular solar cells into an integrated array that could be designed to appear to be part of the hood, roof, and trunk lid. |
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Sounds more like a Super Capacitor battery hybrid than a pure battery. I wonder how long it would stay charged when not driven? a day? a week? If it holds the charge over a month reliably, then it's definately going to change things from phones to cars, but if it self-discharges whether you're driving or not, it will have limited utility. That's the biggest issue with super capacitors getting larger right now. |
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Gonna put this right near the rest of the stack of "battery breakthrough game changer never been dun befo" items and wait until it's actually on the fucking market before getting excited. There are dozens of announcements like this every year, none of them fruition into anything at all. |
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I also want to throw out there that the charge time is all good and fine, but what would it matter if your 200 mile range battery can charge in 5 minutes, if it weighs 3000lb? Energy density is the HUGE hurdle for batteries, not charge time. Most battery cells can charge in a pretty reasonable amount of time as they are, but most charging systems in vehicles can't charge as fast as the batteries could realistically absorb the power. (heat management and degradation aside) Now, lots of people here have said that batteries need to get to an equal amount of energy storage per gallon that gasoline has. This isn't really true. A gallon of gasoline has about ~34kWh worth of energy (thermal). Not all of that is converted into work, of course. So if we take a pretty fuel efficient vehicle that gets 40MPG (not a hybrid, straight ICE power) as the measuring stick, we only need a similar volume of battery to get that range. This is easy to guesstimate, as a Chevy Volt does about 40 miles on ~10.5kWh (I owned a Volt for 3 years, this is my hands on "I actually owned one" experience). Thus a battery really only needs to get to about 10-12kWh per gallon volume/weight to have the same usable energy as a gallon of gas. |
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That sounds wonderfully practical. So we'll just have a crew and some cranes on staff to swap out 3-400 lbs battery packs, at every other station, then? And a fenced yard of freshly charged battpacks, alll standardized for each brand. Cool. I want the battery swap team to wear logo coveralls and sing, like in the fifties, too.
Edit: Hey, all you unemployed McDonalds guys that lost your jobs to robots...gotta deal for you! Quoted:
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Why? I love gasoline engines, but we are fast approaching the practical limit for performance. We are just starting with Electric, and the performance, not to mention power to weight possibilities are incredible. Either they were going to have to make the batteries swappable at a station, or batcaps to make it viable. The batcap is the best option, and if this pans out as true, I’m all in.
Edit: Hey, all you unemployed McDonalds guys that lost your jobs to robots...gotta deal for you!  BattSwap battery swap system for electric cars |
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We have a Niobium deposit in the US. It is in Nebraska. It is low grade making it uneconomical to mine, particularly in light of how environmentally impactful it is to mine and refine. But if the market value or strategic need was high enough, we have a reserve.
NioCorp Nebraska Niobium Deposit There are many other rare earth deposits in the Americas that aren't mined due to economics. But if China gets stingy or prices rise, we can get at it. |
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On the contrary. That new lithium battery would be a big help for them. Their cars currently run off of several thousand 18650 lithium batteries. These new batteries will shorten the Tesla car's charging time and increase their range. I've wondered why Tesla doesn't incorporate solar cells into the roof, hood, and trunk lid of their cars so they would be constantly charging the batteries as long as they were exposed to the sun. Would just require redesign of regular solar cells into an integrated array that could be designed to appear to be part of the hood, roof, and trunk lid. Either way, 200 miles requires ~ 60kwh. To power required to transfer that amount of energy in 6 minutes is 600,000W! Charging to support that is not feasible, unless you plan to install that at substations. |
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Well that's some serious shit if legit. Combine that battery with a 15-20kw diesel generator for the ultimate hybrid. Run on EV until the battery gets down to like 30% then generator starts up and with conservative driving recharges you back up to full power and shuts down. 
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Either way, 200 miles requires ~ 60kwh. To power required to transfer that amount of energy in 6 minutes is 600,000W! Charging to support that is not feasible, unless you plan to install that at substations. |
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Too bad for the unemployed McDonald's guys, if battery swap ever becomes a thing, it will probably look more like this, than a 1950's gas station.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9WXExbF0GIQuoted:
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Why? I love gasoline engines, but we are fast approaching the practical limit for performance. We are just starting with Electric, and the performance, not to mention power to weight possibilities are incredible. Either they were going to have to make the batteries swappable at a station, or batcaps to make it viable. The batcap is the best option, and if this pans out as true, I’m all in.
Edit: Hey, all you unemployed McDonalds guys that lost your jobs to robots...gotta deal for you! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9WXExbF0GI |
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On the contrary. That new lithium battery would be a big help for them. Their cars currently run off of several thousand 18650 lithium batteries. These new batteries will shorten the Tesla car's charging time and increase their range. I've wondered why Tesla doesn't incorporate solar cells into the roof, hood, and trunk lid of their cars so they would be constantly charging the batteries as long as they were exposed to the sun. Would just require redesign of regular solar cells into an integrated array that could be designed to appear to be part of the hood, roof, and trunk lid. |
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Capacitors haven't reached the energy storage capacity of batteries. And graphene isn't even toxic. A baby could eat it. The catch is in the power output curve. Batteries have a fairly flat voltage level until they reach depletion, while caps have a much more dramatic output curve which makes very different demand on the driven system. But I think there's a lot of potential in using a combination. GET BOTH. It's the arfcom tradition anyway, right? |
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As a guy who has studied lithium-ion battery technology for 9 years in college/grad school, and 6 years working for .gov, call me fucking skeptical.
The amount of data cherry picking and absolutely fucking terrible science in battery technology lead me away from research entirely. I don't believe a single fucking thing that is written in these scientific journals. As a side note, my latest patent/research article was cited by John Goodenough (the father of lithium-ion battery technology and national medal of science recipent) as a "major improvement". Butt-fuck battery research. I'm that guy that insisted on having statistically significant results for every claim I make and having designed experiments to test every hypothesis and meanwhile some Chinese research group publishes one article where they got one result on one fucked up coin cell that they extrapolated to a full-sized car battery that they claim will cure the worlds ill-wills for electric cars. fuck battery research /rant yeah. I'm drunk. |
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As a guy who has studied lithium-ion battery technology for 9 years in college/grad school, and 6 years working for .gov, call me fucking skeptical. The amount of data cherry picking and absolutely fucking terrible science in battery technology lead me away from research entirely. I don't believe a single fucking thing that is written in these scientific journals. As a side note, my latest patent/research article was cited by John Goodenough (the father of lithium-ion battery technology and national medal of science recipent) as a "very encouraging result". Butt-fuck battery research. I'm that guy that insisted on having statistically significant results for every claim I make and having designed experiments to test every hypothesis and meanwhile some Chinese research group publishes one article where they got one result on one fucked up coin cell that they extrapolated to a full-sized car battery that they claim will cure the worlds ill-wills for electric cars. fuck battery research /rant yeah. I'm drunk.
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As a guy who has studied lithium-ion battery technology for 9 years in college/grad school, and 6 years working for .gov, call me fucking skeptical. The amount of data cherry picking and absolutely fucking terrible science in battery technology lead me away from research entirely. I don't believe a single fucking thing that is written in these scientific journals. As a side note, my latest patent/research article was cited by John Goodenough (the father of lithium-ion battery technology and national medal of science recipent) as a "major improvement". Butt-fuck battery research. I'm that guy that insisted on having statistically significant results for every claim I make and having designed experiments to test every hypothesis and meanwhile some Chinese research group publishes one article where they got one result on one fucked up coin cell that they extrapolated to a full-sized car battery that they claim will cure the worlds ill-wills for electric cars. fuck battery research /rant yeah. I'm drunk. |
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What REALLY REALL REALLY gets neglected in this "200 miles of range in 5 minutes of charging!" is... that is a FUCKTON of power being transferred in such a short period of time. You need a HUGE YUGE YUUUUUUUGGGEEEEE source of power to push that much energy into a battery. Yeah, I think electric cars are good, and I think they'll get much cheaper and much more practical, in part by things like this battery, and yes, I do think that infrastructure will be developed to do this superfast charging... but I always think it's weird as fuck no one bothers to do the math about how much power it actually takes to charge a battery like that in such a short time. Quoted:
What REALLY REALL REALLY gets neglected in this "200 miles of range in 5 minutes of charging!" is... that is a FUCKTON of power being transferred in such a short period of time. You need a HUGE YUGE YUUUUUUUGGGEEEEE source of power to push that much energy into a battery. Yeah, I think electric cars are good, and I think they'll get much cheaper and much more practical, in part by things like this battery, and yes, I do think that infrastructure will be developed to do this superfast charging... but I always think it's weird as fuck no one bothers to do the math about how much power it actually takes to charge a battery like that in such a short time. Quoted:
Nope, it wouldn't. 480V x 3 phases x 20A = 28,800W, or 28kW, which would be easily extrapolated into kWh, as 28.8kWh in an HOUR of charging. Vehicles like the Chevy Bolt use ~60kWh to travel a bit more than 200 miles. Such a circuit would take a little more than 2 hours to charge such a battery. See my previous post about this, it's gonna take a lot more than 20A on a three phase circuit to charge this bad boy! |
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In the event that electric car usage becomes wide spread, there will be no "off peak hours" but probably a change of peak hours. Quoted:
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Why do people keep posting that crap? Has anyone even calculated the energy draw of 2 million EVs? Because that is less than 1% of the registered/titled vehicles. I do not care if you are talking off peak overnight hours, excluding the fact that there are industries that only run in those hours, that is a significant energy draw. Which takes even more time to get approved and built than a new coal power plant. |
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They want to Make American Great Again by making sure that the oil/automotive complex which has been responsible for 2/3s to 3/4s of our trade deficit for 40 years now keeps on going. Also hoping for an American company that is a global leader in an emerging industry to fail while cheering on it's foreign competition... It's the only way America can truly be great again. No, it must be a conspiracy by the oil companies... Welcome to my ignore list, you fucking libs make it so damned easy. |
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Couldn’t be because Tesla wastes billions of dollars of tax subsidies on a technology the market doesn’t want yet still manages to get to the verge of bankruptcy. Couldn’t be because Tesla is just a horribly managed company that makes a pretty shitty product in terms of quality control, despite having an astronomical high price, which is mostly picked up by the taxpayers via subsidies just so fucking virtue signaling liberals like you can feel areodite and snuggly superior. Couldn’t be because electric cars are a darling of the envirowacko left and Musk is their poster boy and we are sick of their shit. Couldn’t be because making and disposing of overpriced electric car batteries is actually extremely dirty and does far more damage to the environment than gasoline does. No, it must be a conspiracy by the oil companies... Welcome to my ignore list, you fucking line make it so damned easy. 
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6 minute charge time for a Tesla Model S, with the big battery: Battery voltage is 375v, battery capacity is 85 kWhr, or 85,000 Whr.
Charging amps would be 2267 Amps at 375 Volts, at 100% efficiency. The 240 Volt circuit at the home would require 3542 Amps at 100% efficiency. At 50% efficiency, half the Amps charging the car, half the amps heating the battery and charger, the 240 V circuit in the home would need to provide 7100 Amps. For comparison, at 240 Volts, a clothes dryer draws about 13 Amps, a 4 element range all on high draws about 25 Amps and the oven another 13 Amps. Run it all, on max power, and the home 240 Volt circuit needs to provide about 51 Amps. 51 Amps at 100% efficiency. Charging a Model S big battery in 6 minutes would require 139 times more Amps than running the dryer, all the stove elements and the stove oven at the same time. Put another way, charging a Model S big battery in 6 minutes would use the same power as 139 homes, each home using close to maximum electrical power. How many homes can provide this much power? How many charging stations can do it? How many electrical grids can supply this much power to each home that has a Model S? Talk is cheap but it takes money to buy whiskey. It's easy to make stuff up, doing 9th grade math is harder. But, sometimes 9 grade math is needed. We just finished two terms of a President who could not add, subtract, multiply or divide, we don't need more babble from innumerate, silly people about nonsense stuff, like 10 C charge rates for big batteries. Even iPhones have a built in calculator, and this isn't rocket science. |
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6 minute charge time for a Tesla Model S, with the big battery: Battery voltage is 375v, battery capacity is 85 kWhr, or 85,000 Whr. Charging amps would be 2267 Amps at 375 Volts, at 100% efficiency. The 240 Volt circuit at the home would require 3542 Amps at 100% efficiency. At 50% efficiency, half the Amps charging the car, half the amps heating the battery and charger, the 240 V circuit in the home would need to provide 7100 Amps. For comparison, at 240 Volts, a clothes dryer draws about 13 Amps, a 4 element range all on high draws about 25 Amps and the oven another 13 Amps. Run it all, on max power, and the home 240 Volt circuit needs to provide about 51 Amps. 51 Amps at 100% efficiency. Charging a Model S big battery in 6 minutes would require 139 times more Amps than running the dryer, all the stove elements and the stove oven at the same time. Put another way, charging a Model S big battery in 6 minutes would use the same power as 139 homes, each home using close to maximum electrical power. How many homes can provide this much power? How many charging stations can do it? How many electrical grids can supply this much power to each home that has a Model S? Talk is cheap but it takes money to buy whiskey. It's easy to make stuff up, doing 9th grade math is harder. But, sometimes 9 grade math is needed. We just finished two terms of a President who could not add, subtract, multiply or divide, we don't need more babble from innumerate, silly people about nonsense stuff, like 10 C charge rates for big batteries. Even iPhones have a built in calculator, and this isn't rocket science.  
Like I said, you better call and up your service, have your local utility hang a bigger can, drop a much thicker piece of triplex for your mains, and you'll need a meter with one fuck of a lot more magic smoke in it. #electricityislikemagic #magicholesinthewall #unicornfarts #itscalledelectricaltheory |
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6 minute charge time for a Tesla Model S, with the big battery: Battery voltage is 375v, battery capacity is 85 kWhr, or 85,000 Whr. Charging amps would be 2267 Amps at 375 Volts, at 100% efficiency. The 240 Volt circuit at the home would require 3542 Amps at 100% efficiency. At 50% efficiency, half the Amps charging the car, half the amps heating the battery and charger, the 240 V circuit in the home would need to provide 7100 Amps. For comparison, at 240 Volts, a clothes dryer draws about 13 Amps, a 4 element range all on high draws about 25 Amps and the oven another 13 Amps. Run it all, on max power, and the home 240 Volt circuit needs to provide about 51 Amps. 51 Amps at 100% efficiency. Charging a Model S big battery in 6 minutes would require 139 times more Amps than running the dryer, all the stove elements and the stove oven at the same time. Put another way, charging a Model S big battery in 6 minutes would use the same power as 139 homes, each home using close to maximum electrical power. How many homes can provide this much power? How many charging stations can do it? How many electrical grids can supply this much power to each home that has a Model S? Talk is cheap but it takes money to buy whiskey. It's easy to make stuff up, doing 9th grade math is harder. But, sometimes 9 grade math is needed. We just finished two terms of a President who could not add, subtract, multiply or divide, we don't need more babble from innumerate, silly people about nonsense stuff, like 10 C charge rates for big batteries. Even iPhones have a built in calculator, and this isn't rocket science. |
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You're talking the electrical service of a good size manufacturing facility. Quoted:
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6 minute charge time for a Tesla Model S, with the big battery: Battery voltage is 375v, battery capacity is 85 kWhr, or 85,000 Whr. Charging amps would be 2267 Amps at 375 Volts, at 100% efficiency. The 240 Volt circuit at the home would require 3542 Amps at 100% efficiency. At 50% efficiency, half the Amps charging the car, half the amps heating the battery and charger, the 240 V circuit in the home would need to provide 7100 Amps. For comparison, at 240 Volts, a clothes dryer draws about 13 Amps, a 4 element range all on high draws about 25 Amps and the oven another 13 Amps. Run it all, on max power, and the home 240 Volt circuit needs to provide about 51 Amps. 51 Amps at 100% efficiency. Charging a Model S big battery in 6 minutes would require 139 times more Amps than running the dryer, all the stove elements and the stove oven at the same time. Put another way, charging a Model S big battery in 6 minutes would use the same power as 139 homes, each home using close to maximum electrical power. How many homes can provide this much power? How many charging stations can do it? How many electrical grids can supply this much power to each home that has a Model S? Talk is cheap but it takes money to buy whiskey. It's easy to make stuff up, doing 9th grade math is harder. But, sometimes 9 grade math is needed. We just finished two terms of a President who could not add, subtract, multiply or divide, we don't need more babble from innumerate, silly people about nonsense stuff, like 10 C charge rates for big batteries. Even iPhones have a built in calculator, and this isn't rocket science. In other words, photovoltaic solar sucks, and wouldn't even power the stereos they put in Teslas. |
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This, better have a 3 phase plug in to transfer that much juice in 5 minutes. Quoted:
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What REALLY REALL REALLY gets neglected in this "200 miles of range in 5 minutes of charging!" is... that is a FUCKTON of power being transferred in such a short period of time. You need a HUGE YUGE YUUUUUUUGGGEEEEE source of power to push that much energy into a battery. Yeah, I think electric cars are good, and I think they'll get much cheaper and much more practical, in part by things like this battery, and yes, I do think that infrastructure will be developed to do this superfast charging... but I always think it's weird as fuck no one bothers to do the math about how much power it actually takes to charge a battery like that in such a short time. 
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I can keep gas in jerry cans, throw it in the back of the truck, and if I need to use a hand pump to get it out of tanks from stations when there is no power. Can't do that with batteries. I live in Hurricane Alley. Batteries don't work well for me. |
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I hate electric cars, but that's a big deal. Very cool. |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - GAME CHANGER: Toshiba develops EV battery that can go 200 Miles after only 6 minutes of charge (Page 3 of 5)
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