Extreme shock ammo what u think - Page 2

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Extreme shock ammo what u think (Page 2 of 3)

Posted: 8/24/2005 2:02:02 AM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:
I wanna know how they tested the 97% thing. I've seen hogs take 7mm rounds and keep going. I don't buy for one fucking second that sumbitch dropped instantly from any 9mm round, much less this one.

Most of their testing in done on Ninjas. If it kills them, you know it would drop a 505lb man... err... 185lb boar... or... yeah...

Posted: 8/24/2005 2:13:11 AM EDT

[#2]

... From Wikipedia and I believe this to be as accurate as any ...

The general formula for the kinetic energy in a coherent system of units, including SI and cgs systems, and the gravitational foot-pound-second and the absolute foot-pound-second system, is:

E = ½ m·v2 In SI, mass m is in kilograms and velocity v is in metres per second, giving kinetic energy in joules.

For other units, a conversion factor must be added. For example, to get muzzle energy where

E is the muzzle energy of bullet (in foot-pounds force)
v is the velocity of bullet (in feet per second)
m is the mass of bullet (in grains)
The formula is

E = m·v2/450437
Typical muzzle energy levels of different types of firearms are:
The general formula for the kinetic energy in a coherent system of units, including SI and cgs systems, and the gravitational foot-pound-second and the absolute foot-pound-second system, is:

E = ½ m·v2
In SI, mass m is in kilograms and velocity v is in metres per second, giving kinetic energy in joules.

For other units, a conversion factor must be added. For example, to get muzzle energy where

E is the muzzle energy of bullet (in foot-pounds force)
v is the velocity of bullet (in feet per second)
m is the mass of bullet (in grains)
The formula is

E = m·v2/450437
Typical muzzle energy levels of different types of firearms are:

Posted: 8/24/2005 2:32:37 AM EDT

[#3]

You know, I want to volunteer my services to put to rest any arguments about bullets/ammo. Which one is best, what sucks, what has no penatration.........blah, blah, blah. You come to the range with me and I will gladly shoot you anywhere on your body, with any type ammo you like.

Or maybe it should go like this. I shoot you in the left side of your chest with Wolf's .223, and again in the right with xm193, and you tell me which one hurts more.

Or you could run at me, and I shoot alternating rounds of .40cal, ball ammo, and this extreme shock, and we'll see which one makes you stop running first.

Jesus people, getting shot is getting shot, I don't care what it is. If you take a 9mm projectile to your chest, even with minimal penatration, you're gonna stop running around, changing mags and typing responses to assanine posts like this one.

Posted: 8/24/2005 2:36:28 AM EDT

[#4]

Their webiste is a just a bit over the top

But I wouldnt want to get shot with the ammo...

Posted: 8/24/2005 2:41:34 AM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
You know, I want to volunteer my services to put to rest any arguments about bullets/ammo. Which one is best, what sucks, what has no penatration.........blah, blah, blah. You come to the range with me and I will gladly shoot you anywhere on your body, with any type ammo you like.

Or maybe it should go like this. I shoot you in the left side of your chest with Wolf's .223, and again in the right with xm193, and you tell me which one hurts more.

Or you could run at me, and I shoot alternating rounds of .40cal, ball ammo, and this extreme shock, and we'll see which one makes you stop running first.

Jesus people, getting shot is getting shot, I don't care what it is. If you take a 9mm projectile to your chest, even with minimal penatration, you're gonna stop running around, changing mags and typing responses to assanine posts like this one.

Then why did Chicago PD have to shoot a guy 19 times to kill him. Because they were using 9mm ball ammo. I've said it before and I'll say it again. A big fat mushroomed hot .40 cal round will open a MUCH more severe wound channel than 9mm ball. Bigger, meaner wound channel=more damage done=more stopping power. One HP round may only kill someone 1 second quicker than another, but that's 2 rounds they can't squeeze off at you in that one second.

Posted: 8/24/2005 2:50:03 AM EDT

[#6]

No thanks, I think I am very happy with my Gold Dots.

Posted: 8/24/2005 2:52:50 AM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
No thanks, I think I am very happy with my Gold Dots.

That's what I'm saying, I've never seen anyone have issue with my .40 cal rangers. Why take the chance.

Posted: 8/24/2005 4:00:08 AM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
You know, I want to volunteer my services to put to rest any arguments about bullets/ammo. Which one is best, what sucks, what has no penatration.........blah, blah, blah. You come to the range with me and I will gladly shoot you anywhere on your body, with any type ammo you like.

Or maybe it should go like this. I shoot you in the left side of your chest with Wolf's .223, and again in the right with xm193, and you tell me which one hurts more.

Or you could run at me, and I shoot alternating rounds of .40cal, ball ammo, and this extreme shock, and we'll see which one makes you stop running first.

Jesus people, getting shot is getting shot, I don't care what it is. If you take a 9mm projectile to your chest, even with minimal penatration, you're gonna stop running around, changing mags and typing responses to assanine posts like this one.

Did you reply to the wrong thread?

Posted: 8/24/2005 4:00:39 AM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
An AFR round has completely dumped its entire energy in the first 7", completely disintigrating the ballistic gelatin

ENERGY DUMP?

first 7"

Lack of penetration

Isn't the Air Freedom Round supposed to be used on board airplanes? Lack of penetration is probably a good idea if you want to keep cabin pressure intact.

Posted: 8/24/2005 4:04:17 AM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
Quoted:
An AFR round has completely dumped its entire energy in the first 7", completely disintigrating the ballistic gelatin

ENERGY DUMP?

first 7"

Lack of penetration

Isn't the Air Freedom Round supposed to be used on board airplanes? Lack of penetration is probably a good idea if you want to keep cabin pressure intact.

Nah, it's been proven that you could let loose with an mp-5 inside a plane at 30 grand and it not hurt. You wouldnt exactly want to stay up there or pretend nothing happened but it's NOT going to explode. Don't you watch mythbusters?

Posted: 8/24/2005 4:47:44 AM EDT

[#11]

I had a chance to chat with the ES guys at a show earlier this summer. I actually met the guy who designed their ads. I asked him if he also did the Hydrostorm and MOD knife ads. Nope.

What was interesting is the 505lb hog story. The owner is a bi-time hog hunter. The wound channel in the hog was impressive. Pretty much pulverized the heart and lungs. Great shot placement.

Posted: 8/24/2005 5:13:10 AM EDT

[#12]

Those bullets will work well when the bad guys are wearing light clothing only. But if they wear heavy clothing such leather or body armor, it won't stop them fast enough before they can hurt or kill you.

Posted: 8/24/2005 5:20:26 AM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Those guys look extremely GHEYY.

Check the eyes man, I think it's the same guy just different guns/gear.

Guy #3 is black!?

Shok

Posted: 8/24/2005 5:28:56 AM EDT

[#14]

Dang. I don't pay attention for one minute and this is what happens?

It always seems like there are a couple of people who don't take the time to read the available material and stubbornly refuse to listen to the people who have done the research.

I'm working on an FAQ about exotic ammo, but I'm having a real hard time being objective about it. Even if I were not biased towards "traditional" bullets due to the scientific proof that exists, I can't find the same objective data about Extreme Shock, BMT, Glasers, etc. These bullets have lived on the fringe of the ammo world; the makers of these bullets know that their rounds are substandard, and know exactly that to invite scientific scrutiny is to expose them for what they are. Plain and simple: they will sell more bullets by fancy advertising hype than by any other means.

Looks like I better get working on that FAQ again...

Posted: 8/24/2005 5:33:28 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
Quoted:
You know, I want to volunteer my services to put to rest any arguments about bullets/ammo. Which one is best, what sucks, what has no penatration.........blah, blah, blah. You come to the range with me and I will gladly shoot you anywhere on your body, with any type ammo you like.

Or maybe it should go like this. I shoot you in the left side of your chest with Wolf's .223, and again in the right with xm193, and you tell me which one hurts more.

Or you could run at me, and I shoot alternating rounds of .40cal, ball ammo, and this extreme shock, and we'll see which one makes you stop running first.

Jesus people, getting shot is getting shot, I don't care what it is. If you take a 9mm projectile to your chest, even with minimal penatration, you're gonna stop running around, changing mags and typing responses to assanine posts like this one.
Then why did Chicago PD have to shoot a guy 19 times to kill him. Because they were using 9mm ball ammo. I've said it before and I'll say it again. A big fat mushroomed hot .40 cal round will open a MUCH more severe wound channel than 9mm ball. Bigger, meaner wound channel=more damage done=more stopping power. One HP round may only kill someone 1 second quicker than another, but that's 2 rounds they can't squeeze off at you in that one second.

No. Maybe because shootiung at a live person who is trying to harm you is harder than killing paper.

Posted: 8/24/2005 5:51:19 AM EDT

[#16]

I can't believe anyone buys into this kinda crap anymore.

The advertising (three guys who are the same guy, one painted black how fookin bizzare), the hype, the trade names all cater to those with the sense of a 13 year old D&D geek.

Nytrillium? Air Freedom? What a joke.

Posted: 8/24/2005 5:57:28 AM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You know, I want to volunteer my services to put to rest any arguments about bullets/ammo. Which one is best, what sucks, what has no penatration.........blah, blah, blah. You come to the range with me and I will gladly shoot you anywhere on your body, with any type ammo you like.

Or maybe it should go like this. I shoot you in the left side of your chest with Wolf's .223, and again in the right with xm193, and you tell me which one hurts more.

Or you could run at me, and I shoot alternating rounds of .40cal, ball ammo, and this extreme shock, and we'll see which one makes you stop running first.

Jesus people, getting shot is getting shot, I don't care what it is. If you take a 9mm projectile to your chest, even with minimal penatration, you're gonna stop running around, changing mags and typing responses to assanine posts like this one.
Then why did Chicago PD have to shoot a guy 19 times to kill him. Because they were using 9mm ball ammo. I've said it before and I'll say it again. A big fat mushroomed hot .40 cal round will open a MUCH more severe wound channel than 9mm ball. Bigger, meaner wound channel=more damage done=more stopping power. One HP round may only kill someone 1 second quicker than another, but that's 2 rounds they can't squeeze off at you in that one second.

No. Maybe because shootiung at a live person who is trying to harm you is harder than killing paper.

I wanna see someone take 5 shots, 4 of which were placed vital areas, of .40 cal ranger JHP and live. This guy took 19, 14 of which were impacted in vital areas, before he died. I've been an EMT since 2000 and seen I'd guess, 15, GSW's about half were DRT. (code 7) I've seen the real life difference in .40 cal JHP and ball. Not even in the same sport much less the same ball park.

Posted: 8/24/2005 6:07:04 AM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You know, I want to volunteer my services to put to rest any arguments about bullets/ammo. Which one is best, what sucks, what has no penatration.........blah, blah, blah. You come to the range with me and I will gladly shoot you anywhere on your body, with any type ammo you like.

Or maybe it should go like this. I shoot you in the left side of your chest with Wolf's .223, and again in the right with xm193, and you tell me which one hurts more.

Or you could run at me, and I shoot alternating rounds of .40cal, ball ammo, and this extreme shock, and we'll see which one makes you stop running first.

Jesus people, getting shot is getting shot, I don't care what it is. If you take a 9mm projectile to your chest, even with minimal penatration, you're gonna stop running around, changing mags and typing responses to assanine posts like this one.
Then why did Chicago PD have to shoot a guy 19 times to kill him. Because they were using 9mm ball ammo. I've said it before and I'll say it again. A big fat mushroomed hot .40 cal round will open a MUCH more severe wound channel than 9mm ball. Bigger, meaner wound channel=more damage done=more stopping power. One HP round may only kill someone 1 second quicker than another, but that's 2 rounds they can't squeeze off at you in that one second.

No. Maybe because shootiung at a live person who is trying to harm you is harder than killing paper.
I wanna see someone take 5 shots, 4 of which were placed vital areas, of .40 cal ranger JHP and live. This guy took 19, 14 of which were impacted in vital areas, before he died. I've been an EMT since 2000 and seen I'd guess, 15, GSW's about half were DRT. (code 7) I've seen the real life difference in .40 cal JHP and ball. Not even in the same sport much less the same ball park.

The comparison is not to HP vs. ball, it's one brand of HP vs. another. This "Exteme Shlock" brand is crap, and at $2.30 per round, expensive crap!.

Well designed bullets in all the major calibers are equally effective, more or less. Whether it's 9mm, .40 or .45 caliber, a good HP is a good HP.

Posted: 8/24/2005 6:13:59 AM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
I bought 2 boxes of it just for kicks to see how it does. If it turns out to be nothing but hype then I'll go back to the federal hydrashocks.

Sucker born every minute.

Posted: 8/24/2005 6:17:11 AM EDT

[#20]

All of you guys who are shooting from the hip without any knowledge of wound ballistics would be well advised to read some of the applicable literature. Going with what you *believe* and *gut feel* and *I heard from this one guy who's a SEAL/Ranger/Delta/etc.* is doing a real disservice to people who are looking for real information on the subject, and whose lives might depend on it.

Posted: 8/24/2005 6:22:19 AM EDT

[#21]

The ultimate weapon must be the Whammo AirBlaster. Zero penetration, and all of it's "energy dump" occurs on the surface of the target. I blasted an elephant to vapor with one once.
Matthew

Posted: 8/24/2005 6:26:13 AM EDT

[#22]

I don't really know that much about ammo, so I can't tell ya if they are any good or not, but, I don't think ANY ammo would be worth the price they are asking. I just did a little research and got my HD ammo (2 boxes) and my range ammo is just PMC .40.

As for calibers, all I had to see was the report of the strike of a .40 on steel and, a 9mm on steel. Pretty much made up my mind right there.

Posted: 8/24/2005 6:45:28 AM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
As for calibers, all I had to see was the report of the strike of a .40 on steel and, a 9mm on steel. Pretty much made up my mind right there.

See - it's exactly this kind of thinking that permeates the thinking around here. I'm not meaning to pick on you in particular, Goonboss, but exactly what does a strike of a .40 and a 9mm on steel prove?

Sure, .40 is bigger, and better for the same loadings for a given manufacturer, but how about a .40 FMJ versus a 9mm Gold Dot?

Posted: 8/24/2005 7:12:12 AM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You know, I want to volunteer my services to put to rest any arguments about bullets/ammo. Which one is best, what sucks, what has no penatration.........blah, blah, blah. You come to the range with me and I will gladly shoot you anywhere on your body, with any type ammo you like.

Or maybe it should go like this. I shoot you in the left side of your chest with Wolf's .223, and again in the right with xm193, and you tell me which one hurts more.

Or you could run at me, and I shoot alternating rounds of .40cal, ball ammo, and this extreme shock, and we'll see which one makes you stop running first.

Jesus people, getting shot is getting shot, I don't care what it is. If you take a 9mm projectile to your chest, even with minimal penatration, you're gonna stop running around, changing mags and typing responses to assanine posts like this one.
Then why did Chicago PD have to shoot a guy 19 times to kill him. Because they were using 9mm ball ammo. I've said it before and I'll say it again. A big fat mushroomed hot .40 cal round will open a MUCH more severe wound channel than 9mm ball. Bigger, meaner wound channel=more damage done=more stopping power. One HP round may only kill someone 1 second quicker than another, but that's 2 rounds they can't squeeze off at you in that one second.

No. Maybe because shootiung at a live person who is trying to harm you is harder than killing paper.
I wanna see someone take 5 shots, 4 of which were placed vital areas, of .40 cal ranger JHP and live. This guy took 19, 14 of which were impacted in vital areas, before he died. I've been an EMT since 2000 and seen I'd guess, 15, GSW's about half were DRT. (code 7) I've seen the real life difference in .40 cal JHP and ball. Not even in the same sport much less the same ball park.

It has been shown that ball ammo isn't necessarily the best for "stopping power". Modern JHP cartridges are quite similar in wound ballistics, the differences lying mostly in bullet design and shot placement.

19 shots with 9mm FMJ vs 4-5 shots with 40 S&W JHP is not an ideal comparison.

9mm Speer Gold Dot 147 gr JHP or 9mm Winchester Ranger T 147 gr JHP vs whatever 40 S&W JHP would be a much better comparison. You will find the 40 does more damage and penetrates deeper, but not so much that it is a night/day difference or requiring 19 rounds of 9mm to kill 1 person.

Posted: 8/24/2005 7:12:49 AM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
Quoted:
As for calibers, all I had to see was the report of the strike of a .40 on steel and, a 9mm on steel. Pretty much made up my mind right there.

See - it's exactly this kind of thinking that permeates the thinking around here. I'm not meaning to pick on you in particular, Goonboss, but exactly what does a strike of a .40 and a 9mm on steel prove?

Sure, .40 is bigger, and better for the same loadings for a given manufacturer, but how about a .40 FMJ versus a 9mm Gold Dot?

Holy shit, someone actually injecting REASON and LOGIC into this thread! Thanks Zhukov!!

Posted: 8/24/2005 7:17:21 AM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You know, I want to volunteer my services to put to rest any arguments about bullets/ammo. Which one is best, what sucks, what has no penatration.........blah, blah, blah. You come to the range with me and I will gladly shoot you anywhere on your body, with any type ammo you like.

Or maybe it should go like this. I shoot you in the left side of your chest with Wolf's .223, and again in the right with xm193, and you tell me which one hurts more.

Or you could run at me, and I shoot alternating rounds of .40cal, ball ammo, and this extreme shock, and we'll see which one makes you stop running first.

Jesus people, getting shot is getting shot, I don't care what it is. If you take a 9mm projectile to your chest, even with minimal penatration, you're gonna stop running around, changing mags and typing responses to assanine posts like this one.
Then why did Chicago PD have to shoot a guy 19 times to kill him. Because they were using 9mm ball ammo. I've said it before and I'll say it again. A big fat mushroomed hot .40 cal round will open a MUCH more severe wound channel than 9mm ball. Bigger, meaner wound channel=more damage done=more stopping power. One HP round may only kill someone 1 second quicker than another, but that's 2 rounds they can't squeeze off at you in that one second.

No. Maybe because shootiung at a live person who is trying to harm you is harder than killing paper.
I wanna see someone take 5 shots, 4 of which were placed vital areas, of .40 cal ranger JHP and live. This guy took 19, 14 of which were impacted in vital areas, before he died. I've been an EMT since 2000 and seen I'd guess, 15, GSW's about half were DRT. (code 7) I've seen the real life difference in .40 cal JHP and ball. Not even in the same sport much less the same ball park.

It has been shown that ball ammo isn't necessarily the best for "stopping power". Modern JHP cartridges are quite similar in wound ballistics, the differences lying mostly in bullet design and shot placement.

19 shots with 9mm FMJ vs 4-5 shots with 40 S&W JHP is not an ideal comparison.

9mm Speer Gold Dot 147 gr JHP or 9mm Winchester Ranger T 147 gr JHP vs whatever 40 S&W JHP would be a much better comparison. You will find the 40 does more damage and penetrates deeper, but not so much that it is a night/day difference or requiring 19 rounds of 9mm to kill 1 person.

Your right, its not an ideal comparison. But it was made for a reason. Because of the incident CPD now uses .40 with speer gold dot. First officer involved shooting after the switch. 2 officers fire on a suspect and put his ass DOWN. 5 shots total. It's believed that any one of 4 of the 5 shots would have been as close to an instant incapacitation as decapitation.

Posted: 8/24/2005 7:17:54 AM EDT

[#27]

The watermelon...scourge of the Mid-West.

Posted: 8/24/2005 7:21:26 AM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
Quoted:
As for calibers, all I had to see was the report of the strike of a .40 on steel and, a 9mm on steel. Pretty much made up my mind right there.

See - it's exactly this kind of thinking that permeates the thinking around here. I'm not meaning to pick on you in particular, Goonboss, but exactly what does a strike of a .40 and a 9mm on steel prove?

Sure, .40 is bigger, and better for the same loadings for a given manufacturer, but how about a .40 FMJ versus a 9mm Gold Dot?

Doesn't bother me, becasue I'm not emotionally invested in the great ammo debate. I honestly don't care. I already admitted I wasn't "Ammo guy", and, I didn't bag all over dude's choice of ammo. I simply said I thought it was too much money to spend on ammo for the particular weapon.

I figgure if I hit somebody with a .40, they are going down. I shot 9mm in the army and, was unimpressed by it. I had already made up my mind to go with .40 before I ever saw it strike steel, but, the sound and, signature the round made impressed me over what they guy next to me was shooting.

Sure, I suppose you can buy 9mm super dooper wad cutting woziwhatzits and they will do fine, and, there are good and valid arguments for 9mm, I simply don't like the round.

You can spend as much as you like on ammo, and, buy any round you like, but, there is no substitute for tactics and training.

Posted: 8/24/2005 7:56:12 AM EDT

[#29]

I can see everyone is pissed about the air freedom round, how about the fang face round. This supposedly has excellent penetration and expansion.

Posted: 8/24/2005 8:40:50 AM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:
I can see everyone is pissed about the air freedom round, how about the fang face round. This supposedly has excellent penetration and expansion.

Well, if they said it, it must be true...

Posted: 8/24/2005 9:01:35 AM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:
Shootings the melons and water jugs is nice, but not really a good test for a bullet.

Shooting a 505 lb hog is a different thing entirely. Taking for granted that they didn't tie it to a tree and shoot it in the head from 10 ft away. If it was a 15 or 20 yd shot to the shoulder, or ribs, and that is how they killed the hog, then that is pretty damn good. I know a bunch of guys that have shot hogs, and I was able to shoot one when I was stationed in Germany. I used a 30-06 with a 180 gr bullet to kill the hog, shot just behind the front shoulder from 60 yds, and he ran a good 50 yds before he died. So if a 9mm handgun round can drop a 505 lb hog, then it should be good enough to stop a 180 lb man.

<edited for grammar errors>

Actually bad shot placement on your part. Had you placed that 180gr bullet just infront of the front shoulder it would have ben DRT. If you know where to put the bullet a hog can be killed with anything, including a .22lr with no problem, so the fact that they did it with a 9mm pistol is no big feat and really doesn't say anything about how good this ammo is.

Posted: 8/24/2005 9:06:53 AM EDT

[#32]

This thread smells like a trolling expedition if you ask me.

Posted: 8/24/2005 9:08:55 AM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:
www.extremeshockusa.com/gfx_splash/top_2.jpg

This alone should make you run away, If all the pop ups on the web page don't first.

It's for airsofters......

Posted: 8/24/2005 9:10:26 AM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:
I bought 2 boxes of it just for kicks to see how it does.

PT Barnum strikes again.

Posted: 8/24/2005 9:11:10 AM EDT

[#35]

The best ammo for ninjas, period

Posted: 8/24/2005 9:11:46 AM EDT

[#36]

Don't forget a Range Report, and be very careful. It looks as if even a near-miss with this ammo is fatal.

I'm scared looking at it, I can't imaginr the danger of even being around it.
I'm calling the Brady bunch..this is worse than the cop killer bullets!

Posted: 8/24/2005 9:12:17 AM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:
Quoted:
I bought 2 boxes of it just for kicks to see how it does.

PT Barnum strikes again.

Like I said, brou: Glitzy advertising is good enough for this company to continue on making a small profit regardless of any (lack of) facts on their side. Like moths to a flame...

Posted: 8/24/2005 10:50:27 AM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
www.extremeshockusa.com/gfx_splash/top_2.jpg

This alone should make you run away, If all the pop ups on the web page don't first.

either that is triplets or 1 of the fugliest wannabe's ive ever seen.

What do you mean, "wannabe"? It says right there on his gear "Agent". Jeez, how much proof do you need?

Matthew

Posted: 8/24/2005 12:54:36 PM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:
Then why did Chicago PD have to shoot a guy 19 times to kill him. Because they were using 9mm ball ammo.

Because the guy was not shot in the CNS. Had one of those bullets struck him in the brain pain, chances are 99.9%+ he would had stopped and dropped. Even completely shredding the heart will allow plenty of time for a target to shoot back.

Sure, maybe one guy takes 19 hits, whereas another takes just one to stop, drop, and die - but are you going to risk your life betting on that to happen? Not everyone will suddenly drop from shock, the effects vary with the person and situation. I'm not counting on that to happen, though I am confident that most calibers I use will cause the target to eventually expire.

Posted: 8/24/2005 2:30:28 PM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:
The only thing "extreme" about it is the hype. If I were serious about self defense, I would not load that shit in my guns.

Woefully inadequate penetration and fragmentation is the result of this ammo. Inadequate penetration always a no-no when a selecting a good personal defense load. And fragmentation is ALWAYS a bad thing in handgun ammo.

Get yourself some Winchester 147 gr Ranger or 124 gr +P Gold Dot instead.

I just had to, for once, totally agree with charging handle. All that 'explosive'/'massive energy deposit' hoo haa is just a load.

Posted: 8/24/2005 2:41:17 PM EDT

[#41]

Posted: 8/24/2005 3:07:11 PM EDT

[#42]

Back in the days when I was a Rhodesian mercenary, I carried 357Sig Extreme Schlock in my combat revolver religiously. Quite by surprise one evening, we were surprised by a rabid Cape Buffalo who began ravaging our encampment.

I quickly dispatched the Beast with one round of the 357Sig Extreme Schlock fired from my 357 Sig revolver. The round expanded, but still managed to overpenetrate the beast's 4" skull and deflect up to kill a murderous hashish-addicted Ninja assassin in the treetops overhead.

The natives feasted for hours and danced until dawn. After that the Cape Buffalo meat was donated to a local shelter for errant pet cats.

All in all a good day, wot?

Posted: 8/24/2005 3:57:50 PM EDT

[#43]

You can spend as much as you like on ammo, and, buy any round you like, but, there is no substitute for tactics and training.

Agreed, but all that is a waste if your ammo sucks. If this ammo was better than the LE versions of Ranger, HST or Golden Saber we would know. I'll pass on risking my ass on bad advertising hype. I must have missed all the reports from the cops, military and other users who are shredding bad guys with this around the world.

Posted: 8/24/2005 5:26:01 PM EDT

[#44]

::cough:: ::horse shit:: ::cough::

Posted: 8/24/2005 5:32:27 PM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:

You don't say...

Posted: 8/24/2005 5:49:31 PM EDT

[#46]

E-Shock rounds are engineered to expend maximum energy into soft targets, turning the density mass into an expanding rotational cone of NyTrilium matrix particles, causing neurological collapse to the central nervous system.

You cannot believe that any handgun round has enough energy transfer into soft tissues to "cause neurological collapse to the CNS." If you shot someone in the head that may cause neurological collapse. This is a pretty poor excuse for a hyped up advertising campaign. Fancy expensive rounds sold by ninjas = bullshit.

Posted: 8/24/2005 6:34:39 PM EDT

[#47]

Energy transfer is total horse shit.

I'll tell you what, if you don't believe me, go out sometime and find yourself something that weights about 150 lbs and sit it up. A tree stump or a section of a log might work well.

Then blast away at it. Shoot it with 9mm. Shoot it with .357. Shoot it with a .300 Win Mag.

If one of those shots actually knocks the object over or makes it move, congrats. You've just seen energy trasfer. But what you're gonna see is that the object remains upright and doesn't move.

Heck, how many times have to you shot empty soda cans with .223 or 5.56mm and the can never move? If "energy transfer" won't even knock over a 1 ounce soda can half the time, why would anyone rely on it knocking down a human?

Again, energy trasfer my ass. Energy trasnfer has never killed squat. It's the tissue damage that causes that. And the more and the deeper it is, the better.

That's why the experts all want a load that penetrates a minimum of 12" and delivers reliable expansion.

Posted: 8/24/2005 6:57:32 PM EDT

[#48]

Man! That ammo has got to be bull shit.

For the sake of anyone's personal safety, I don't understand why anyone would buy such bull shit...

Posted: 8/24/2005 7:42:34 PM EDT

[#49]

Quoted:
This thread smells like a trolling expedition if you ask me.

Trolling, as in chumming for suckers?

Free advertising, perhaps?

I *always* suspect low count posters who show up and start the "Gee, guys, what do you think of THIS round! It's pretty amazing ifyou ask me! I just bought me some of that stuff and it sure looks impressive."

Posted: 8/24/2005 7:45:55 PM EDT

[#50]

Quoted:
Quoted:
This thread smells like a trolling expedition if you ask me.

Trolling, as in chumming for suckers?

Free advertising, perhaps?

I *always* suspect low count posters who show up and start the "Gee, guys, what do you think of THIS round! It's pretty amazing ifyou ask me! I just bought me some of that stuff and it sure looks impressive."

And instead he got 5 pages of truth.

ETA: oops, I thought 100 posts would be starting page 5.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Extreme shock ammo what u think (Page 2 of 3)

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