Quoted: Quoted: exactly, the PENTAGON thinks they're the enemy.  that's the whole problem.  Gotta justifiy huge budgets with some peer-competitor. Right. I am supposed to take the word of the pro-Israel lobby over that of the Pentagon? Sorry kid, I am pro-American. Fuck those who sell secrets that harm us.

How about everyone EXCEPT the pentagon?  You've never heard of a conflict of interest?  It happens.  Its insitutional.

Quoted: One more thing... You think that just cause I'm jewish I'd defend an action by Israel that could potentially harm my country?  THAT's anti-semetic, and THAT's why that accusation comes up so much when talking with Buchananists.  I'm Jewish folks, NOT israeli.

Then what is more important to you?  America or Israel?

the funny thing is, I'm not a fan of Israel at all... Not one bit.  

and that Jpost article only further proves what I've been saying...

THE US has good reason to be concerned about China. Even as the US seeks to engage China, the fact of the matter is that China views the US as its primary opponent, and has built much of its foreign policy around curbing and weakening the US globally. China is spurred both by its global power aspirations and by its voracious and growing appetite for oil.

The coming 'battle' will be economic, not military,  and we will most probably lose (as we are now).  

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Just a freindly word of advice, I wouldn't challenge Andy (vito113) on matters of this nature.  He is THE subject matter expert.   For the record... Do I support Isreael?  Yes Do I support Israel when it openly cooperates and shares US defense technology with the PRC?  No. Regards, Justin Thanks for the vote Justin, I've posted some VERY damning reports in the past on Israeli arms sales and transfers to the PRC, including from such sources as the US DoD, but the 'Pro Israel' gang won't have a word said against Israel… Longbow Radar, Cruise Missile technology, NVG tech, Anti Radar tech, aircraft radars, Python AAM's, Patriots missile and their radar… just some of the stuff  that has 'found' it's way to China via Israel. Of course the fact that the upgrade to the HARPY hunter killer drones, (the tech transfer that finally caused the DoD to blow a fuse) that the Israelis were going to do for the PRC would have made them especially effective against USN phased array radar sets was 'just one of those things' I suppose? Israel looks out for Israel and nobody else, as soon as the Chinese are the 'Big Kid on the Block' the Israelis will tell the US to go take a hike… Andy

Andy,

You Brits are great people.  I am glad that we are allies.

Quoted: Quoted: One more thing... You think that just cause I'm jewish I'd defend an action by Israel that could potentially harm my country?  THAT's anti-semetic, and THAT's why that accusation comes up so much when talking with Buchananists.  I'm Jewish folks, NOT israeli.   Then what is more important to you?  America or Israel?

ChapperJoe,

I'd love to see you answer this.

To be fair, I consider myself an American Jew, NOT a Jewish American.  Catch my drift?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: One more thing... You think that just cause I'm jewish I'd defend an action by Israel that could potentially harm my country?  THAT's anti-semetic, and THAT's why that accusation comes up so much when talking with Buchananists.  I'm Jewish folks, NOT israeli.   Then what is more important to you?  America or Israel? For many it would seem their first loyalty is with Israel…… More charges in Pentagon spy probe WASHINGTON (AP) — Two former employees of a pro-Israel lobbying organization were charged Thursday with conspiring to obtain and disclose classified U.S. defense information for five years. A five-count indictment unsealed in U.S. District Court in Alexandria, Va., named Steven Rosen, formerly the director of foreign policy issues for the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, and Keith Weissman, the organization's former senior Ira analyst. The charges follow the indictment in June of Pentagon analyst Lawrence A. Franklin, accused of leaking classified military information to an Israeli official and the AIPAC employees. The lengthy FBI investigation that led to Thursday's charges has been closely followed in Washington, where AIPAC is an influential interest group. http://www.dhonline.com/articles/2005/08/05/news/nation/nat04.txt

What AIPAC did happens in DC 40 times a day and with every country, INCLUDING the US in London, the French in Moscow and yes even those dirty Israelis in DC.  This was a sting operation and it worked.  You go up to a supporter of ANY country and say 'I have information that is absolutely vital to this country' and he will take it.  Franklin will never be convicted on his charge, he is gonna be convicted of the same conspiracy to disseminate charge cause a) they never caught him passing real info nor do they have evidence that he did b) the actual  sting involved fake info, the only person who broke the law here was a mysetry embassy official mentioned above, that has since left the country (for obvious reasons) and is still unidentified.  He allegedly was ready to pay for the sting info.  Franklin offered the planted info (he was in on it, already ';caught' at this point) and rosen and Wiesman sent him to the embassy official.

Rosen was a real connected guy too - he's toast though.

It's called foriegn relations folks, and it ain't always pretty.  You need to know where your allies stand even moreso than where your adversairies do.....


ETA: there were probably mroe american than KGB sources insdie London during teh cold war.  Its dirty but that's how it is done.

Quoted: Just a freindly word of advice, I wouldn't challenge Andy (vito113) on matters of this nature.  He is THE subject matter expert.

I would challenge anyone on this subject matter.  and I appreciate teh advice.

Thank you Israel!

Quoted: the funny thing is, I'm not a fan of Israel at all... Not one bit.   and that Jpost article only further proves what I've been saying... THE US has good reason to be concerned about China. Even as the US seeks to engage China, the fact of the matter is that China views the US as its primary opponent, and has built much of its foreign policy around curbing and weakening the US globally. China is spurred both by its global power aspirations and by its voracious and growing appetite for oil. The coming 'battle' will be economic, not military,  and we will most probably lose (as we are now).

Economic...right...that explains the PRC's enormous military build-up in recent years (Andy, please feel free to elaborate as I am not as well veresed as you in these matters).  I guess the PLA intends to invade the NYSE, huh?

Regards,

Justin

Quoted: Quoted: Just a freindly word of advice, I wouldn't challenge Andy (vito113) on matters of this nature.  He is THE subject matter expert.   I would challenge anyone on this subject matter.  and I appreciate teh advice.

Suit yourself.

ETA:  So far, Andy is winning.

Then what is more important to you? America or Israel?

even asking me that is an insult.  I am a fourth generation American and next to my RELIGION there is nothing more important than my country.  The state of Isreal has NOTHING to do with my religion.  The Jews in Israel are my coreligionists, and I love them as such.  The state of Israel means very little to me.  

Quoted: I say we keep supporting Israel by buying some of their weapons technology/ideas to enhance our capabilities. I say we keep supporting Israel because it pisses off Muslim terrorists. If Muslim terrorists get mad when you do something, do it more often! Now, when the heck are we getting those armored D9 bulldozers?

And when are we getting a special modified licensed US-made Galil variant for our military ?  

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Just a freindly word of advice, I wouldn't challenge Andy (vito113) on matters of this nature.  He is THE subject matter expert.   I would challenge anyone on this subject matter.  and I appreciate teh advice. Suit yourself. ETA:  So far, Andy is winning.

Wow, I should've brought MY inter-web fan club.

Quoted: Quoted: the funny thing is, I'm not a fan of Israel at all... Not one bit.   and that Jpost article only further proves what I've been saying... THE US has good reason to be concerned about China. Even as the US seeks to engage China, the fact of the matter is that China views the US as its primary opponent, and has built much of its foreign policy around curbing and weakening the US globally. China is spurred both by its global power aspirations and by its voracious and growing appetite for oil. The coming 'battle' will be economic, not military,  and we will most probably lose (as we are now).   Economic...right...that explains the PRC's enormous military build-up in recent years (Andy, please feel free to elaborate as I am not as well veresed as you in these matters).  I guess the PLA intends to invade the NYSE, huh? Regards, Justin

Once again, you do realize that they are the largest single holder of US bonds.
ETA: maybe andy can tell you what that means......

Quoted: I say we keep supporting Israel by buying some of their weapons technology/ideas to enhance our capabilities. I say we keep supporting Israel because it pisses off Muslim terrorists. If Muslim terrorists get mad when you do something, do it more often! Now, when the heck are we getting those armored D9 bulldozers?

When is the US military going to start using a licensed US-made Galil variant instead of the M16 ?  

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: the funny thing is, I'm not a fan of Israel at all... Not one bit.   and that Jpost article only further proves what I've been saying... THE US has good reason to be concerned about China. Even as the US seeks to engage China, the fact of the matter is that China views the US as its primary opponent, and has built much of its foreign policy around curbing and weakening the US globally. China is spurred both by its global power aspirations and by its voracious and growing appetite for oil. The coming 'battle' will be economic, not military,  and we will most probably lose (as we are now).   Economic...right...that explains the PRC's enormous military build-up in recent years (Andy, please feel free to elaborate as I am not as well veresed as you in these matters).  I guess the PLA intends to invade the NYSE, huh? Regards, Justin Once again, you do realize that they are the largest single holder of US bonds. ETA: maybe andy can tell you what that means......

Ouch...

On a more serious note, spare me your ill informed ideologies.  I apologize, but I'd rather heed the Pentagon's advice then yours, seeing as how you don't have access to classified intelligence reports, whereas they do (hence, the "ill informed" remark).

Quoted: On a more serious note, spare me your ill informed ideologies.  I apologize, but I'd rather heed the Pentagon's advice then yours, seeing as how you don't have access to classified intelligence reports, whereas they do (hence, the "ill informed" remark).

That's your argument?  That the pentagon 'knows better'?  That's a cop-out my friend.  Either form an opinion and defend it or better yet, Why don't you let Andy handle this one.....  

eTA: reminds me of my niece, when you say "how do you know?" and she squeaks  "I'm not telling!"


And do you know what an ideology is?  maybe you need to google it before you use it.

Quoted: Quoted: On a more serious note, spare me your ill informed ideologies.  I apologize, but I'd rather heed the Pentagon's advice then yours, seeing as how you don't have access to classified intelligence reports, whereas they do (hence, the "ill informed" remark). That's your argument?  That the pentagon 'knows better'?  That's a cop-out my friend.  Either form an opinion and defend it or better yet, Why don't you let Andy handle this one.....   eTA: reminds me of my niece, when you say "how do you know?" and she squeaks  "I'm not telling!" And do you know what an ideology is?  maybe you need to google it before you use it.

You accuse me of being juvenile and yet you can't continue a civilezed debate without reverting to insults.  Take a good look in the mirror my friend.  

You deny that the PRC poses a serious and legitimate military danger to the United States yet you refuse to respond when asked to explain the PRC's overt military build up.  This build up represents a "clear and present danger" (to quote the Espionage and Sediton Acts of 1917) to the national security of the United States and Israel's contribution (and perhaps, collaboration) only exacerbates this threat yet you claim that this does not endanger the United States.  This is eerily reminiscent of the Clinton administration's response to Al Qaeda (and terrorism as a whole, for that matter).

The fact of the matter is that Israel released US technology (that we shared with them, fooloshly assuming that they were trustworthy)  to the PRC.  This technology significantly enhances the PRC's military capability and would most likely contribute to US casualties if (or rather, when) a war between the two nations erupts.  If that does not pose a threat to this great nation, than I don't know what does.

The state of Israel means very little to me.

If this is true, then why did you start this thread?  According to your inherently flawed logic, you should start a thread expressing your jubilence with every nation that has offered this nation hurricane relief, starting with Kuwait which offered $500 million in aid.  With that in mind, don't waste your time here as you have a lot more threads to start thanking a lot more countries than Israel, including Iran.  That's right, Iran offered aid as well, so get to cheering.

Justin

ETA:  You are Jewish, correct?  If so, then I assume you are familiar with the phrase Chilul Hashem.  If not, I suggest you find out before you continue reading.  The actions of the state of Israel and certain unnamed pro-Israel lobbyists is the most blatant Chilul Hashem of the century.  The number of individuals (both Jews and non-Jews alike) enraged with Israel's treasonous actions is innumerable.  The damage is irreparable and Jews will always be seen in a different light due to the actions of  the ignorant and the cowardly.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: On a more serious note, spare me your ill informed ideologies.  I apologize, but I'd rather heed the Pentagon's advice then yours, seeing as how you don't have access to classified intelligence reports, whereas they do (hence, the "ill informed" remark). That's your argument?  That the pentagon 'knows better'?  That's a cop-out my friend.  Either form an opinion and defend it or better yet, Why don't you let Andy handle this one.....   eTA: reminds me of my niece, when you say "how do you know?" and she squeaks  "I'm not telling!" And do you know what an ideology is?  maybe you need to google it before you use it. You accuse me of being juvenile and yet you can't continue a civilezed debate without reverting to insults.  Take a good look in the mirror my friend.   You deny that the PRC poses a serious and legitimate military danger to the United States yet you refuse to respond when asked to explain the PRC's overt military build up.  This build up represents a "clear and present danger" (to quote the Espionage and Sediton Acts of 1917) to the national security of the United States and Israel's contribution (and perhaps, collaboration) only exacerbates this threat yet you claim that this does not endanger the United States.  This is eerily reminiscent of the Clinton administration's response to Al Qaeda (and terrorism as a whole, for that matter). The fact of the matter is that Israel released US technology (that we shared with them, fooloshly assuming that they were trustworthy)  to the PRC.  This technology significantly enhances the PRC's military capability and would most likely contribute to US casualties if (or rather, when) a war between the two nations erupts. If that does not pose a threat to this great nation, than I don't know what does. The state of Israel means very little to me. If this is true, then why did you start this thread?  According to your inherently flawed logic, you should start a thread expressing your jubilence with every nation that has offered this nation hurricane relief, starting with Kuwait which offered $500 million in aid.  With that in mind, don't waste your time here as you have a lot more threads to start thanking a lot more countries than Israel, including Iran.  That's right, Iran offered aid as well, so get to cheering. Justin ETA:  You are Jewish, correct?  If so, then I assume you are familiar with the phrase Chilul Hashem.  If not, I suggest you find out before you continue reading.  The actions of the state of Israel and certain unnamed pro-Israel lobbyists is the most blatant Chilul Hashem of the century.  The number of individuals (both Jews and non-Jews alike) enraged with Israel's treasonous actions is innumerable.  The damage is irreparable and Jews will always be seen in a different light due to the actions of  the ignorant and the cowardly.

illogical, inane or just plain incorrect sections hilighted.  

I started this thread because the Buchaninites charge ISrael serves only Israel and that America gains nothing and in fact loses out by giving aid to Israel.  This thread was illustrative of the fact that the bond between Israel and America has drawn teh two countries together in realms other than finance and miltary technology.

And Chilul Hashem is only in front of other Jews.  Once non-jews enter the picture it cannot be a chilul hashem.  It's in the Shulchan Aruch.  Maybe andy knows that too.  You certainly don't.  What happened with aipac was bsusiness as usual in diplomacy and politics.  Everyone in this town certainly realizes that.  Its not even discussed anymore around the 'water cooler' here.  

Fact is,  you are a really horrible know-it-all.  You're way out of your league in either topic, Jewish law or international affairs.  Go away.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: On a more serious note, spare me your ill informed ideologies.  I apologize, but I'd rather heed the Pentagon's advice then yours, seeing as how you don't have access to classified intelligence reports, whereas they do (hence, the "ill informed" remark). That's your argument?  That the pentagon 'knows better'?  That's a cop-out my friend.  Either form an opinion and defend it or better yet, Why don't you let Andy handle this one.....   eTA: reminds me of my niece, when you say "how do you know?" and she squeaks  "I'm not telling!" And do you know what an ideology is?  maybe you need to google it before you use it. You accuse me of being juvenile and yet you can't continue a civilezed debate without reverting to insults.  Take a good look in the mirror my friend.   You deny that the PRC poses a serious and legitimate military danger to the United States yet you refuse to respond when asked to explain the PRC's overt military build up.  This build up represents a "clear and present danger" (to quote the Espionage and Sediton Acts of 1917) to the national security of the United States and Israel's contribution (and perhaps, collaboration) only exacerbates this threat yet you claim that this does not endanger the United States.  This is eerily reminiscent of the Clinton administration's response to Al Qaeda (and terrorism as a whole, for that matter). The fact of the matter is that Israel released US technology (that we shared with them, fooloshly assuming that they were trustworthy)  to the PRC.  This technology significantly enhances the PRC's military capability and would most likely contribute to US casualties if (or rather, when) a war between the two nations erupts. If that does not pose a threat to this great nation, than I don't know what does. The state of Israel means very little to me. If this is true, then why did you start this thread?  According to your inherently flawed logic, you should start a thread expressing your jubilence with every nation that has offered this nation hurricane relief, starting with Kuwait which offered $500 million in aid.  With that in mind, don't waste your time here as you have a lot more threads to start thanking a lot more countries than Israel, including Iran.  That's right, Iran offered aid as well, so get to cheering. Justin ETA:  You are Jewish, correct?  If so, then I assume you are familiar with the phrase Chilul Hashem.  If not, I suggest you find out before you continue reading.  The actions of the state of Israel and certain unnamed pro-Israel lobbyists is the most blatant Chilul Hashem of the century.  The number of individuals (both Jews and non-Jews alike) enraged with Israel's treasonous actions is innumerable.  The damage is irreparable and Jews will always be seen in a different light due to the actions of  the ignorant and the cowardly. illogical, inane or just plain incorrect sections hilighted.   I started this thread because the Buchaninites charge ISrael serves only Israel and that America gains nothing and in fact loses out by giving aid to Israel.  This thread was illustrative of the fact that the bond between Israel and America has drawn teh two countries together in realms other than finance and miltary technology. And Chilul Hashem is only in front of other Jews.  Once non-jews enter the picture it cannot be a chilul hashem.  It's in the Shulchan Aruch.  Maybe andy knows that too.  You certainly don't.  What happened with aipac was bsusiness as usual in diplomacy and politics.  Everyone in this town certainly realizes that.  Its not even discussed anymore around the 'water cooler' here.   Fact is,  you are a really horrible know-it-all.  You're way out of your league in either topic, Jewish law or international affairs.  Go away.

So according to you, the PRC's massive military build up is not a concern?

And the technology that Israel released to the PRC does not significantly enhance their ability to wage war with the United States?  See below.

Quoted: Of course the fact that the upgrade to the HARPY hunter killer drones, (the tech transfer that finally caused the DoD to blow a fuse) that the Israelis were going to do for the PRC would have made them especially effective against USN phased array radar sets was 'just one of those things' I suppose?

Again, I'll takeAndy's word for it.  

You seem to be suffering from a severe case of denial.

As a former Chabad/Lubavitcher, I can say with certainty that you are wrong.  Contact your local Chabad center and ask the Rabbi about Chilul Hashem.  The defintion of Chilul Hashem is a disgrace of G-d’s name.  How is it not possible to disgrace G-d in front of gentiles (non-Jews)?

All in all, your blind and passionate support for Israel is typical of the pro-Israel lobby.

It's ineteresting how you refuse to address the USS Liberty incident or the PRC's massive military build up.

This thread was illustrative of the fact that the bond between Israel and America has drawn teh two countries together in realms other than finance and miltary technology.

So becaue Israel offered relief [and relatively meger relief at that], that means that the US and Israel are "drawn together" despite Israel countless treasenous actions?

According to your logic, the following nations also share the same bond with the United States and are drawn togetherm just as Israel is (considering they offered hurricane relief as well, some of them  far exceeding Israel's offer):

Iran

Cuba

Russia

China

Mexico

Venezuela

Qatar

Kuwait

Spain

Etc...

-Justin


ETA:  Do you recall your previous avatar?  Allow me to refersh your memory, the Kahane's Commandos icon.  Well, perhaps you are unaware, but the Kahane's Commandos are recognized by the Federal Bureau of Investigations as an international terrorist organization.  Therefore, you knowingly supported (of course, I am assuming you supported them as you saw fit to associate their icon with your name) an international terrorist organization, as per the FBI.  How about that; you claim to love this country, yet you support an organization that the US deems as a threat to international security.

All in all, your blind and passionate support for Israel i stypical of the pro-Israel lobby. It's ineteresting how you refuse to address the USS Liberty incident or the PRC's massive military build up.

The liberty was unfortunate, if you wanna believe the tin-foil hat theory's on that fine.  No one's ever gonna convince you otherwise.  

PRC's massive military build up?  Have you looked at their neighborhood?  

Blind and passionate support for Israel?  Where'd that come from.  PRo-Israel?  Dead-wrong.

as regards this:

As a former Chabad/Lubavitcher, I can say with certainty that you are wrong. Contact your local Chabad cenetr and ask the Rabbi about Chilul Hashem. The defintion of Chilul Hashem is a disgrace of G-d’s name, you can't disgrace G-d in front of other Jews.

that is simply laughable and is in fact the opposite. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.  I hope you are not Jewish cause if so that is pathetic.  And I'm distressed cause if you know the phrase chilul hashem, then you must be religious and if you are religious and don't know what a chilul hashem actually is, then you need to quit your job and go to yeshiva for a couple for years, crack the books and get back to me.  Don't half ass this area of your life.  If you're a religious Jew you really should know these things.  I mean this is a real minor point compared to more important issues.

ETA: Do you recall your previous avatar? Allow me to refersh your memory, the Kahane's Commandos icon. Well, perhaps you are unaware, but the Kahane's Commandos are recognized by the Federal Bureau of Investigations as an international terrorist organization. Therefore, you knowingly supported (of course, I am assuming you supported them as you saw fit to associate their icon with your name) an international terrorist organization, as per the FBI. How about that; you claim to love this country, yet you support an organization that the US deems as a threat to international security.

I removed it and a couple of people asked why...  And I said that the symbol of Jewish Pride had been coopted by Kahane and his followers and that there might be some dimwitted people (enter you) who might mistakenly associate me with them as opposed to just dedicated to the idea of Jewish Pride.  I didn't want to place a stone before the blind man.  

You continue to add nothing to this thread....

Quoted: As a former Chabad/Lubavitcher, I can say with certainty that you are wrong.  Contact your local Chabad center and ask the Rabbi about Chilul Hashem.  The defintion of Chilul Hashem is a disgrace of G-d’s name.  How is it not possible to disgrace G-d in front of gentiles (non-Jews)? .

I have no dog in this hunt, so you guys can keep going at however you wish, But I would very much so like for you to tell me what you mean that you are a former Chabad/Lubavicher. Are you stating you once where affiliated with the Chabad orginization, I.E. you Davened at a Chabad Shuel or supported them in some way or set out on the road of being a Ball Tshuva at a chabad orginization? Or are you actually claiming to be a Lubavitcher Hassid? If that is the case, what Yeshiva did you attend? I would very much so like a PM from you with your yichos. As a Lubavitcher you wouldnt hesitate to do this.

Dont confuse someone who was affiliated with Chabad as being a Lubavitcher.  You never know who is around, even on AR15.com.

Perhaps you can put me in my place, If that is the case, I will be happy to say high to your family and friends next time I am in Crown Heights (Which should be in a few weeks) but chances are you are making a very bold  claim that is not true in order to further prove your point. (Whch I take no stance on)

Now I am off to Daven Mincha/Ma'ariv at a Chabd Shuel. be back later.

Quoted: All in all, your blind and passionate support for Israel i stypical of the pro-Israel lobby. It's ineteresting how you refuse to address the USS Liberty incident or the PRC's massive military build up. The liberty was unfortunate, if you wanna believe the tin-foil hat theory's on that fine.  No one's ever gonna convince you otherwise.   PRC's massive military build up?  Have you looked at their neighborhood?   Blind and passionate support for Israel?  Where'd that come from.  PRo-Israel?  Dead-wrong. as regards this: As a former Chabad/Lubavitcher, I can say with certainty that you are wrong. Contact your local Chabad cenetr and ask the Rabbi about Chilul Hashem. The defintion of Chilul Hashem is a disgrace of G-d’s name, you can't disgrace G-d in front of other Jews. that is simply laughable and is in fact the opposite. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.  I hope you are not Jewish cause if so that is pathetic.  And I'm distressed cause if you know the phrase chilul hashem, then you must be religious and if you are religious and don't know what a chilul hashem actually is, then you need to quit your job and go to yeshiva for a couple for years, crack the books and get back to me.  Don't half ass this area of your life.  If you're a religious Jew you really should know these things.  I mean this is a real minor point compared to more important issues.

To quote you:

Quoted: you have reading problems?

Now:

Quoted: As a former Chabad/Lubavitcher,...

May I ask you that same question?

And please refer to the added portion of my above post.  Allow me to ask, it must be nice seeing the world through a vail of ignorance, huh?  Enjoy it because when reality hits, it will hurt.

On that note, I am done with you.  It is quite clear that you do not possess the required intellect for complex thought or discussion.  In one ear and out the other; like I said, ignorance.

Justin

Quoted: Quoted: As a former Chabad/Lubavitcher, I can say with certainty that you are wrong.  Contact your local Chabad center and ask the Rabbi about Chilul Hashem.  The defintion of Chilul Hashem is a disgrace of G-d’s name.  How is it not possible to disgrace G-d in front of gentiles (non-Jews)? . I have no dog in this hunt, so you guys can keep going at however you wish, But I would very much so like for you to tell me what you mean that you are a former Chabad/Lubavicher. Are you stating you once where affiliated with the Chabad orginization, I.E. you Davened at a Chabad Shuel or supported them in some way or set out on the road of being a Ball Tshuva at a chabad orginization? Or are you actually claiming to be a Lubavitcher Hassid? If that is the case, what Yeshiva did you attend? I would very much so like a PM from you with your yichos. As a Lubavitcher you wouldnt hesitate to do this. Dont confuse someone who was affiliated with Chabad as being a Lubavitcher.  You never know who is around, even on AR15.com. Perhaps you can put me in my place, If that is the case, I will be happy to say high to your family and friends next time I am in Crown Heights (Which should be in a few weeks) but chances are you are making a very bold  claim that is not true in order to further prove your point. (Whch I take no stance on) Now I am off to Daven Mincha/Ma'ariv at a Chabd Shuel. be back later.

I used to be a Chabad Lubavitcher.  Born a regular Jew, became a Baal Tshuva and lived the Chabad Lubavitch life (tzitzis, kippah, bishul Yisrael, pas Yisrael, cholov Yisrael) and in North Carolina at that) for three years and then "fried out" as they like to say.

I still maintain an active relationship with my Rav and I have davened at 770 countless times, with my Rashi and RT teffillin.

Enjoy Minchah (more like Maariv time in my neck of the woods).

By the way, check your IM's.

Regards,

Justin

Quoted: Quoted: All in all, your blind and passionate support for Israel i stypical of the pro-Israel lobby. It's ineteresting how you refuse to address the USS Liberty incident or the PRC's massive military build up. The liberty was unfortunate, if you wanna believe the tin-foil hat theory's on that fine.  No one's ever gonna convince you otherwise.   PRC's massive military build up?  Have you looked at their neighborhood?   Blind and passionate support for Israel?  Where'd that come from.  PRo-Israel?  Dead-wrong. as regards this: As a former Chabad/Lubavitcher, I can say with certainty that you are wrong. Contact your local Chabad cenetr and ask the Rabbi about Chilul Hashem. The defintion of Chilul Hashem is a disgrace of G-d’s name, you can't disgrace G-d in front of other Jews. that is simply laughable and is in fact the opposite. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.  I hope you are not Jewish cause if so that is pathetic.  And I'm distressed cause if you know the phrase chilul hashem, then you must be religious and if you are religious and don't know what a chilul hashem actually is, then you need to quit your job and go to yeshiva for a couple for years, crack the books and get back to me.  Don't half ass this area of your life.  If you're a religious Jew you really should know these things.  I mean this is a real minor point compared to more important issues. To quote you: Quoted: you have reading problems? Now: Quoted: As a former Chabad/Lubavitcher,... May I ask you that same question? And please refer to the added portion of my above post.  Allow me to ask, it must be nice seeing the world through a vail of ignorance, huh?  Enjoy it because when reality hits, it will hurt. On that note, I am done with you.  It is quite clear that you do not possess the required intellect for complex thought or discussion.  In one ear and out the other; like I said, ignorance. Justin

I don't understand your question?  You are a former chabad lubavitcher.  So?  What you don't learn halachah?  You should.  The alter rebbe has a shulchan aruch too, I'm sure he says the same thing that the mechubar and r'muh say on chilul hashem.  

I hope you don't take any of this personal but you're simply out of your league in these areas.  (If you do take it personally I beg forgiveness - don't wanna mess around during Elul!)

On a lighter note,  why don't you go start a thread about astrophysics or anatomy or some other subject that I know zero about, and I'll come in and make an ass out of myself and we'll be even.

For the record... Do I support Isreael?  Yes Do I support Israel when it openly cooperates and shares US defense technology with the PRC?  No.

Well ain't that sweet. YOu support Israel EXCEPT when they are compromising our national security and defense.

Kinda like the ROP'ers.



[sarcasm]Radical Islam is great...well other than when tehya re flying our planes into our buildings. [/sarcasm]

Quoted: Quoted:  Isreal is a country founded by taking the Palestinian's land.   Well heck, I guess that Jewish carpenter did not really die over there some 2,000 years ago, eh?

And who held the land before the days of Joshua???



WAR determines who owns the land. Period.

Dont confuse someone who was affiliated with Chabad as being a Lubavitcher.

I get that alot.  I'm just a jew - some would call me orthodox, but I grew up modern orthodox, went to yeshiva a couple of years, so I have a lot of ultra orthodox in me!  But I decided to daven at a chabad cause they're the only game in town.  As it turns out, the shul is MAGNIFICENT, the community is the best and I love it here.

Quoted: Dont confuse someone who was affiliated with Chabad as being a Lubavitcher. I get that alot.  I'm just a jew - some would call me orthodox, but I grew up modern orthodox, went to yeshiva a couple of years, so I have a lot of ultra orthodox in me!  But I decided to daven at a chabad cause they're the only game in town.  As it turns out, the shul is MAGNIFICENT, the community is the best and I love it here.

Sound close to my story. I did not get scmicha either. I Daven at a Chabad Shuel by default as well. When I moved to the town I live in, it was either live in an appartment and wait forever for a house to Daven at the Modern orthodox Shuel, or Move into the Chabad "Hood" and have my pick of impressive homes.

While I am active in both communities, I love our Chabad Shuel.

Quoted: Quoted: Dont confuse someone who was affiliated with Chabad as being a Lubavitcher. I get that alot.  I'm just a jew - some would call me orthodox, but I grew up modern orthodox, went to yeshiva a couple of years, so I have a lot of ultra orthodox in me!  But I decided to daven at a chabad cause they're the only game in town.  As it turns out, the shul is MAGNIFICENT, the community is the best and I love it here. Sound close to my story. I did not get scmicha either. I Daven at a Chabad Shuel by default as well. When I moved to the town I live in, it was either live in an appartment and wait forever for a house to Daven at the Modern orthodox Shuel, or Move into the Chabad "Hood" and have my pick of impressive homes. While I am active in both communities, I love our Chabad Shuel.

here teh chabad IS the shul.  its amazing,  people are moving near the shul, turning it into a real nice place.  Still a small community, but really nice!

Hey is there any truth to your sig line(Or is that just a quote from someone else)? Are you really looking for a shudduch? If you are seruously a Frumy and 30ish or under I might play shadchan (and she likes to shoot)

I don't like labels, espcially when it comes to matches.  I'm a shulchan aruch jew.  hows that?  25 years old grad student, I act at least half my age, spend every dime i have on guns, gear and ammo and have WAY too busy of a schedule this fall to date! I don't care about a woman's age or even looks provided a) you can look at her without laughing [that's the best I can put it]  and b) she wants to be more religious c) she has to have a sense of humor..... - B) is the most improtant though obviously, that's my favorite line when people ask me what I'm lookin for. I don't care where she starts at, frum, BT, not frum, beis yaakov, modern orthodox - as long as she always wants to be a better Jew that's all I ask.

Quoted: I don't like labels, espcially when it comes to matches.  I'm a shulchan aruch jew.  hows that?  25 years old grad student, I act at least half my age, spend every dime i have on guns, gear and ammo and have WAY too busy of a schedule this fall to date! I don't care about a woman's age or even looks provided a) you can look at her without laughing [that's the best I can put it]  and b) she wants to be more religious c) she has to have a sense of humor..... - B) is the most improtant though obviously, that's my favorite line when people ask me what I'm lookin for. I don't care where she starts at, frum, BT, not frum, beis yaakov, modern orthodox - as long as she always wants to be a better Jew that's all I ask.

So is that a yes or a no? haha. I was not asking what flavor Jew you are, just stating that if you are seriously an observant Jew,(as apposed to one playing one on the internet) I might have a sidduch for you. Your age is perfect (she is 23)and she is very attractive a great cook, great sense of humor, likes to shoot. and was born and raised orthodox.

Quoted: So is that a yes or a no? haha. I was not asking what flavor Jew you are, just stating that if you are seriously an observant Jew,(as apposed to one playing one on the internet) I might have a sidduch for you. Your age is perfect (she is 23)and she is very attractive a great cook, great sense of humor, likes to shoot. and was born and raised orthodox.

yeah I'm a frum yid.  Next you're gonna tell me she doesn't like shooting guns, only cleaning them.

Quoted: It's a symbiotic relationship.

Yep.  we give them tax dollars and they sell us IMI ammo and Fobus holsters.

Quoted: What AIPAC did happens in DC 40 times a day and with every country...

Why does the Israel-first crowd always try to retort with, 'But other people also do wrong, so...'? Wrong is wrong, especially when they are getting a international welfare check from us.

You go up to a supporter of ANY country and say 'I have information that is absolutely vital to this country' and he will take it.

NO. You go up to someone who doesn't know where their loyalities lie, or who is more loyal to another country than they are to the US, and ya, that might happen. But a prerequisite for selling out your own country for another is that you don't value it as highly.

Franklin will never be convicted on his charge, he is gonna be convicted of the same conspiracy to disseminate charge cause a) they never caught him passing real info nor do they have evidence that he did b) the actual  sting involved fake info, the only person who broke the law here was a mysetry embassy official mentioned above, that has since left the country (for obvious reasons) and is still unidentified.  He allegedly was ready to pay for the sting info.  Franklin offered the planted info (he was in on it, already ';caught' at this point) and rosen and Wiesman sent him to the embassy official. Rosen was a real connected guy too - he's toast though.

Sure. Well, as long as they are Israeli spies, they are alright, huh? And how many spy incidents does this make, going back the stolen nuclear material back in the day? Will you act like a traitor and be an apoligist for every one of those incidents, or do you have a shred of integrity?

It's called foriegn relations folks, and it ain't always pretty.  You need to know where your allies stand even moreso than where your adversairies do.....

Interesting  to see you willing to sell out America so easily. Heck, it's just pals keeping an eye on each other!

Pathetic. I hope for Americas sake that you never handle sensitive information. Pretty obvious to see where it would end up, poste-haste.

Quoted: Quoted: So is that a yes or a no? haha. I was not asking what flavor Jew you are, just stating that if you are seriously an observant Jew,(as apposed to one playing one on the internet) I might have a sidduch for you. Your age is perfect (she is 23)and she is very attractive a great cook, great sense of humor, likes to shoot. and was born and raised orthodox. yeah I'm a frum yid.  Next you're gonna tell me she doesn't like shooting guns, only cleaning them.

No, she likes to shoot. Although, I doubt she has ever cleaned a gun.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted:  Isreal is a country founded by taking the Palestinian's land. Yeah, and America was founded by taking the Briton's land.   It was, and we kicked their ass when they tried taking it back, now they just don't want it for some funny reason

Actually there were a people here first before Briton landed and planted a flag in the dirt.
They were called native americans, and if you want to get more technical Spain was the first European power to lay claim to what is now North American soil.

Quoted: Pathetic. I hope for Americas sake that you never handle sensitive information. Pretty obvious to see where it would end up, poste-haste.

sorry to ruin yer day, clearance pending!

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: So is that a yes or a no? haha. I was not asking what flavor Jew you are, just stating that if you are seriously an observant Jew,(as apposed to one playing one on the internet) I might have a sidduch for you. Your age is perfect (she is 23)and she is very attractive a great cook, great sense of humor, likes to shoot. and was born and raised orthodox. yeah I'm a frum yid.  Next you're gonna tell me she doesn't like shooting guns, only cleaning them. No, she likes to shoot. Although, I doubt she has ever cleaned a gun.

what's the catch, she live in mongolia?

Quoted: Quoted: Pathetic. I hope for Americas sake that you never handle sensitive information. Pretty obvious to see where it would end up, poste-haste. sorry to ruin yer day, clearance pending!www.ar15.com/images/smilies/anim_nana.gif

Great. Well, at least I can say I talked to the next Pollard, if only online.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: So is that a yes or a no? haha. I was not asking what flavor Jew you are, just stating that if you are seriously an observant Jew,(as apposed to one playing one on the internet) I might have a sidduch for you. Your age is perfect (she is 23)and she is very attractive a great cook, great sense of humor, likes to shoot. and was born and raised orthodox. yeah I'm a frum yid.  Next you're gonna tell me she doesn't like shooting guns, only cleaning them. No, she likes to shoot. Although, I doubt she has ever cleaned a gun. what's the catch, she live in mongolia?

No catch at all. As a matter of fact, I would say I am underselling her. She has just not meet the right guy, and it has nothing to do with her standards, I have meet most of them as well....she has just not meet the right guy. She is living in New York working as a teacher at a Chabad school. However, this is just until she meets "The right guy" wherever he may live.

Thank you Israel. Better than the $100,000 I heard Japan was giving.

I support Isreal but for diferent reasons than most. I'm Baptist so I can't be called pro-Isreal because I'm Jewish. I have my own religious reasons for my support.

No, I don't like that they shared tech w/ the Chinese. Yes, I believe that China is a potential threat. Yes, I don't like that China and Russia are participating in joint tactical training. Yadah, blah blah....

I thank them now simply for their offer of physical help in our time of need. Not money, not well-wishes, but feet and hands to assist in the vary hard and dangerous work ahead.

Of I can get the FEMA paperwork to my PD, maybe I can join them there.

SO you approve of ther Israelis launching unprovoked attacks on US Navy ships?

Vito, this has been beat to death too many times, at the time of the attack, the US and Israel were not allies. Tensions were very high in the ME, There are questions on C&C and other factors. It was tragic, just as our own friendly fire occurances, Both nations have gotten past it and are strong Allies. We need to leave it at that.

This is troll food here.

Quoted: SO you approve of ther Israelis launching unprovoked attacks on US Navy ships? Vito, this has been beat to death too many times, at the time of the attack, the US and Israel were not allies. Tensions were very high in the ME, There are questions on C&C and other factors. It was tragic, just as our own friendly fire occurances, Both nations have gotten past it and are strong Allies. We need to leave it at that. This is troll food here.

Incorrect.

Andy,

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't the US share intelligence (via the SR-71) with Israe at this time?  Sounds like allies to me.
Justin

www.timesherald.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=15114089&BRD=1672&PAG=461&dept_id=33380&rfi=6


www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?id=8768

Quoted: Quoted: All in all, your blind and passionate support for Israel i stypical of the pro-Israel lobby. It's ineteresting how you refuse to address the USS Liberty incident or the PRC's massive military build up. The liberty was unfortunate, if you wanna believe the tin-foil hat theory's on that fine.  No one's ever gonna convince you otherwise.   Sounds like …"Hey USA, sorry we blew the shit out of  your ship sailing in international waters and killed a load of your guys, but it was 'unfortunate'…" SO you approve of ther Israelis launching unprovoked attacks on US Navy ships? ANdy

this is your 'expert'?