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Quoted: Nice! I want to build another purse gun with the 9" FM-15 300BLK upper and a folder. Same storage size and more velocity! Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: 6" 300BLK with Troy Tomahawk Short. 18.5" of argument. Also, has a cut down brake and a can, with supers and subs. @badkarmaiii You been raiding my safe?  https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/66797/KIMG0087_jpg-3086222.JPG Nice! I want to build another purse gun with the 9" FM-15 300BLK upper and a folder. Same storage size and more velocity! Now you've been raiding mine! Just built a FM15 300blk 9" with folding brace. I can't conceal carry a rifle in FL..... |
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Quoted: This, my bin laden krink.  https://i.imgur.com/lph5crM.jpg Carried in a discreet backpack gun bag. https://i.imgur.com/PEvH251.jpg I can either carry the Alpha or the krink. https://i.imgur.com/7udDB0n.jpg https://i.imgur.com/m5ThVdM.jpg Quoted: This, my bin laden krink. https://i.imgur.com/lph5crM.jpg Carried in a discreet backpack gun bag. https://i.imgur.com/PEvH251.jpg I can either carry the Alpha or the krink. https://i.imgur.com/7udDB0n.jpg https://i.imgur.com/m5ThVdM.jpg It doesn't get much better than that. I really want an 11" VZ.58 to fill the same role with 3 mags and a pile of tracers on stripper clips. Just in case Quoted: https://i.imgur.com/s6cMpMY.jpeg I’ve walked around with this in my backpack a few times while shopping. I've been eyeing one for my G24 for the same porpoise with an LT101 mount a light and vfg |
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Quoted: I saw this morning that Silencer Shop is selling these with free tax stamps... https://www.silencershop.com/promos/q-honey-badger-sbr.html Quoted: I saw this morning that Silencer Shop is selling these with free tax stamps... https://www.silencershop.com/promos/q-honey-badger-sbr.html I am obviously biased but I think it is a great platfrom. People like to hate on KB but his stuff is different than everything else out there and just has that "it" factor for me. |
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Quoted: Now you've been raiding mine! Just built a FM15 300blk 9" with folding brace. I can't conceal carry a rifle in FL..... Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: 6" 300BLK with Troy Tomahawk Short. 18.5" of argument. Also, has a cut down brake and a can, with supers and subs. @badkarmaiii You been raiding my safe? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/66797/KIMG0087_jpg-3086222.JPG Nice! I want to build another purse gun with the 9" FM-15 300BLK upper and a folder. Same storage size and more velocity! Now you've been raiding mine! Just built a FM15 300blk 9" with folding brace. I can't conceal carry a rifle in FL..... I'm thinking one of their integral pic rail lowers with a SIG folding mechanism, a KAK mini buffer tube and cut-down SBA3. |
Another take on civi pdw: The Civilian PDW Concept | Why You Should Own One |
I’ve got a few options. Full-size MP5; a little big for the PDW role, but shrinks down nicely for the car. Zastava ZPAP M92; when folded a pretty handy package, but still a little big. MP5K-PDW; this would likely be what I grabbed if I needed a stocked firearm in a bag.    
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IMHO, the old school of thought was low power (pistol cartridges, 5.7, 4.6, etc) fired in bursts of full auto. Modern PDWs are intermediate cartridges, not primarily fired in bursts. Then we have the whole stocked pistol thing that's even smaller and can be holstered. Lots of good options. |
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Insert welcometothepartypal.jpg I have not watched the initial video yet, but the topic is very relevant to my interests. For me and for my wife & daughters'. I want them to get competent & confident on AR's and other rifles, but I also need to address their physical sizes and compliment existing CCW pistols. So to compliment my "regular" AR's and SBR/MK18 style rifles, I picked up two AP5's last summer, one full size, one K style with the 3 lug. Love the MP5 pics in this thread and some others, looking for ideas on how to keep things simple, yet make them both as functional, easy to use and effective. I've left them both stock for now while I figure this out and collect some funds. Debating SBR'ing the full size, I like the flexibility it gives you for mods, but don't like the FATF and rifle related restrictions. The K sized one I intend to be the traveler, use the Haley backpack I got for my plate carrier. Would like to avoid SBR so its a pistol and as portable/transportable as possible, but then miss out on the forward grip. Great thread! |
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Quoted: https://i.imgur.com/8nmArbi.jpeg This is in full power .308. It would easily fit in a backpack and for sure would end most problems it would be called on to solve. Shoot it from inside a car and get back to us after your ears stop bleeding. |
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Quoted: Does anyone actually run around with their PDW bag in daily life? I think I'll stick to CCW and rifle in vehicle. If need be. It's why I use a messenger bag that is identical to my laptop bag. Even people who know I carry all the time didn't realize what was in the bag. Attached File |
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Quoted: https://i.imgur.com/8nmArbi.jpeg This is in full power .308. It would easily fit in a backpack and for sure would end most problems it would be called on to solve. Cool gun but it'd be a big ass backpack to conceal it. And would take up most of the useable space in the bag. |
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Only one I have is a cz scorpion, and maybe you could count the ruger 5.7 carbine too. Generally I view any really short barrel gun say a mp5 sized gun, as being “ better “ in a rifle caliber, as say a 12” .300blk / 5.56 even with huge power losses of extremely short barrels, still give you 2x or better velocity / ballistics / range than a 9mm / pistol caliber version. So the pistol ar-15 in rifle caliber just gives you better performance / more options for the money, Which is true. However.. now that I’m pretty well stocked on ar-15s, pistol and rifle versions, I’m finding room / money for some pistol caliber guns, cz scorpion, 5.7, maybe a ,p-5 variant in the near future, to play with. Will be fun for grandkids, and makes a great home defense gun for the wife, as it’s great for rock throwing distances. |
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Quoted: I’ve got a few options. Full-size MP5; a little big for the PDW role, but shrinks down nicely for the car. Zastava ZPAP M92; when folded a pretty handy package, but still a little big. MP5K-PDW; this would likely be what I grabbed if I needed a stocked firearm in a bag. https://i.imgur.com/Ga5sg69.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/wtqq1Tl.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/iae6CMd.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/04YB6Fv.jpeg That MP-5K is one of my grail guns, if I could easily buy a full auto version for price of the semi autos I’d have owned one decades ago, 100% would have bought one when I turned 21 in the U.S. army back circa 1990. Semi is much less desirable, because pistol calibers are already weak, which is why pistol caliber PDWs are all full auto, for getting multiple hits, but even just semi auto, I damn sure want one badly.  In Bosnia I met a German tanker at the PX who was wearing baggy tanker coveralls. We talked for a few minutes, and when I asked what guns he carried, he reached down and pulled an unloaded mp5k out of a thigh zippered pocket, with front vertical grip, but no stock, and then pulled two 30 rd mags connected together out of the other side pocket. I was like  He then says in broken English, while pretending to shoot it.. “ how you say? …SPRAY AND PRAY ?! I was like..  Favorite pdw weapons I’d love to own. In order I guess. 1. Mp5-K. Closed bolts are much more attractive to me than open bolts. 2. Mp-7 3. P-90 4. LWRC smg45. ( if reliable) 5. Colt 9mm m16 smg. Bigger but still favorites. Grease gun Thompson Ppsh Mp-40 That LWRC smg 45 is really attractive, but I know nothing about it / if it’s actually worth a shit. Attached File |
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Quoted: Yeah kinda wildly missing the point of a pdw isn’t it? I suppose that would be another good criteria: will fit in a typical sized laptop bag. Quoted: Quoted: Cool gun but it'd be a big ass backpack to conceal it. And would take up most of the useable space in the bag. Yeah kinda wildly missing the point of a pdw isn’t it? I suppose that would be another good criteria: will fit in a typical sized laptop bag. Listen, ptr calls it a pdw, so it’s a pdw. I know it’s way to big to be useful and way to small to be useful. It’s a range toy that I bought and stamped on a whim. It is fun to shoot but would be miserable to shoot without ears in a need to shoot now situation. |
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Quoted: Yeah kinda wildly missing the point of a pdw isn’t it? I suppose that would be another good criteria: will fit in a typical sized laptop bag. I mean if a guy wants to pack a 10" ar around in a pack, knock yourself out. But I see this playing out in few different scenarios. 1. The only thing in the bag is the rifle and supporting gear. Eventually, (especially if you never get things out of it) someone is gonna ask "what's in that bag you always have?" Yeah, you can lie, tell them to fuck off, whatever, but if it's co-workers, people you ride the bus with, you still have to get along with these people and not be the guy that has a bag that no one knows whats in it, and acted weird when asked. Don't want HR to get called and find out you packed a full bore rifle into work. 2. You have a bag you keep day to day bullshit in, and also pack your 10" AR in. All well and good until the wrong person sees your rifle when you open your bag to get a phone charger. A flux raider you could keep wrapped in a shirt and stuffed to the side in scenario 2, and no one is the wiser. |
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Quoted: Listen, ptr calls it a pdw, so it’s a pdw. I know it’s way to big to be useful and way to small to be useful. It’s a range toy that I bought and stamped on a whim. It is fun to shoot but would be miserable to shoot without ears in a need to shoot now situation. No hate intended, like I said it's a cool gun. PDW is a use case in my mind, not an actual firearm. That use case can vary from person to person. |
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Quoted: I mean if a guy wants to pack a 10" ar around in a pack, knock yourself out. But I see this playing out in few different scenarios. 1. The only thing in the bag is the rifle and supporting gear. Eventually, (especially if you never get things out of it) someone is gonna ask "what's in that bag you always have?" Yeah, you can lie, tell them to fuck off, whatever, but if it's co-workers, people you ride the bus with, you still have to get along with these people and not be the guy that has a bag that no one knows whats in it, and acted weird when asked. Don't want HR to get called and find out you packed a full bore rifle into work. 2. You have a bag you keep day to day bullshit in, and also pack your 10" AR in. All well and good until the wrong person sees your rifle when you open your bag to get a phone charger. A flux raider you could keep wrapped in a shirt and stuffed to the side in scenario 2, and no one is the wiser. Quoted: Quoted: Yeah kinda wildly missing the point of a pdw isn’t it? I suppose that would be another good criteria: will fit in a typical sized laptop bag. I mean if a guy wants to pack a 10" ar around in a pack, knock yourself out. But I see this playing out in few different scenarios. 1. The only thing in the bag is the rifle and supporting gear. Eventually, (especially if you never get things out of it) someone is gonna ask "what's in that bag you always have?" Yeah, you can lie, tell them to fuck off, whatever, but if it's co-workers, people you ride the bus with, you still have to get along with these people and not be the guy that has a bag that no one knows whats in it, and acted weird when asked. Don't want HR to get called and find out you packed a full bore rifle into work. 2. You have a bag you keep day to day bullshit in, and also pack your 10" AR in. All well and good until the wrong person sees your rifle when you open your bag to get a phone charger. A flux raider you could keep wrapped in a shirt and stuffed to the side in scenario 2, and no one is the wiser. Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File |
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Quoted: That MP-5K is one of my grail guns, if I could easily buy a full auto version for price of the semi autos I’d have owned one decades ago, 100% would have bought one when I turned 21 in the U.S. army back circa 1990. Semi is much less desirable, because pistol calibers are already weak, which is why pistol caliber PDWs are all full auto, for getting multiple hits, but even just semi auto, I damn sure want one badly. In Bosnia I met a German tanker at the PX who was wearing baggy tanker coveralls. We talked for a few minutes, and when I asked what guns he carried, he reached down and pulled an unloaded mp5k out of a thigh zippered pocket, with front vertical grip, but no stock, and then pulled two 30 rd mags connected together out of the other side pocket. I was like He then says in broken English, while pretending to shoot it.. “ how you say? …SPRAY AND PRAY ?! I was like.. Favorite pdw weapons I’d love to own. In order I guess. 1. Mp5-K. Closed bolts are much more attractive to me than open bolts. 2. Mp-7 3. P-90 4. LWRC smg45. ( if reliable) 5. Colt 9mm m16 smg. Bigger but still favorites. Grease gun Thompson Ppsh Mp-40 That LWRC smg 45 is really attractive, but I know nothing about it / if it’s actually worth a shit. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/92687/IMG_6607_jpeg-3086675.JPG I agree with everything you say about pistol caliber PDWs. I have found that the binary trigger on a SP5k does indeed make a huge difference. Double taps are almost guaranteed to both be hits with a binary and while nowhere near the capability of a real Mp5k, it gives you 2 holes per squeeze which is better than 1 hole per squeeze. |
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Quoted: I agree with everything you say about pistol caliber PDWs. I have found that the binary trigger on a SP5k does indeed make a huge difference. Double taps are almost guaranteed to both be hits with a binary and while nowhere near the capability of a real Mp5k, it gives you 2 holes per squeeze which is better than 1 hole per squeeze. Quoted: Quoted: That MP-5K is one of my grail guns, if I could easily buy a full auto version for price of the semi autos I’d have owned one decades ago, 100% would have bought one when I turned 21 in the U.S. army back circa 1990. Semi is much less desirable, because pistol calibers are already weak, which is why pistol caliber PDWs are all full auto, for getting multiple hits, but even just semi auto, I damn sure want one badly. In Bosnia I met a German tanker at the PX who was wearing baggy tanker coveralls. We talked for a few minutes, and when I asked what guns he carried, he reached down and pulled an unloaded mp5k out of a thigh zippered pocket, with front vertical grip, but no stock, and then pulled two 30 rd mags connected together out of the other side pocket. I was like He then says in broken English, while pretending to shoot it.. “ how you say? …SPRAY AND PRAY ?! I was like.. Favorite pdw weapons I’d love to own. In order I guess. 1. Mp5-K. Closed bolts are much more attractive to me than open bolts. 2. Mp-7 3. P-90 4. LWRC smg45. ( if reliable) 5. Colt 9mm m16 smg. Bigger but still favorites. Grease gun Thompson Ppsh Mp-40 That LWRC smg 45 is really attractive, but I know nothing about it / if it’s actually worth a shit. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/92687/IMG_6607_jpeg-3086675.JPG I agree with everything you say about pistol caliber PDWs. I have found that the binary trigger on a SP5k does indeed make a huge difference. Double taps are almost guaranteed to both be hits with a binary and while nowhere near the capability of a real Mp5k, it gives you 2 holes per squeeze which is better than 1 hole per squeeze. The binary trigger videos Iv seen were pretty impressive. I’m seriously considering getting binary triggers for my cz scorpion, and a ar-15 as well. Hell, maybe my 15-22 also, The prices though are ridiculous, $450? At best it’s worth $150.00 and that’s still kinda high. But I’m guessing they are pricing them 2x-3x higher to offset atf fuckery, which is guaranteed at some near date.Which is a big negative to me, dumping $500 into a binary trigger with a VERY high chance the ATF decrees them “ machine guns”, on a whim any day now, and a decade of ping pong court rulings that may never solve the issue. |
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Quoted: The binary trigger videos Iv seen were pretty impressive. I’m seriously considering getting binary triggers for my cz scorpion, and a ar-15 as well. Hell, maybe my 15-22 also, The prices though are ridiculous, $450? At best it’s worth $150.00 and that’s still kinda high. But I’m guessing they are pricing them 2x-3x higher to offset atf fuckery, which is guaranteed at some near date.Which is a big negative to me, dumping $500 into a binary trigger with a VERY high chance the ATF decrees them “ machine guns”, on a whim any day now, and a decade of ping pong court rulings that may never solve the issue. It's only a matter of time I assume but at the same time, we've seen bump stocks and the pistol brace rule both get challenged and "overturned" and are now in some judicial limbo state. So that's good. |
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Quoted: Semi is much less desirable, because pistol calibers are already weak, which is why pistol caliber PDWs are all full auto, for getting multiple hits, but even just semi auto, I damn sure want one badly. I dont think anyone will argue that pistol rounds are superior to rifle rounds. What I have observed is that almost everyone has an easier time making hits with a pistol caliber pdw than a pistol. Especially for people who do not train or compete with pistol, the difference in ability to make hits is significant. The size and weight difference between pistol and rifle pdws is pretty big too. Big enough one might actually get carried/concealed while the other would be left at home. And the pistol pdw in your bag beats the hell out of the rifle at home. On that same note if we stick to unsuppressed options (gross, I know), I would much rather have to set off a 9mm round in the car than a 5.56 out of a 10.3” barrel, especially if wife and kids are with me. There are always tradeoffs but pistol caliber pdws offer a good mix of shootability and concealability that makes them an interesting option for civilian use in those previously mentioned “medium spicy” scenarios. Which is kind of the point of this thread. Feels like a potentially medium spicy year. |
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Quoted: I agree with everything you say about pistol caliber PDWs. I have found that the binary trigger on a SP5k does indeed make a huge difference. Double taps are almost guaranteed to both be hits with a binary and while nowhere near the capability of a real Mp5k, it gives you 2 holes per squeeze which is better than 1 hole per squeeze. |
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Quoted: We need some forced reset MP5 triggers. Quoted: Quoted: I agree with everything you say about pistol caliber PDWs. I have found that the binary trigger on a SP5k does indeed make a huge difference. Double taps are almost guaranteed to both be hits with a binary and while nowhere near the capability of a real Mp5k, it gives you 2 holes per squeeze which is better than 1 hole per squeeze. There might be 3D printed designs for this.. |
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A lot of the type 1, 2 and 3 are just oversized pistols unless full auto. You can get 33 round mags for your Glock 9mm pistol. On a different note I am looking forward to the DNC in Chicago this year, I am old enough to remember the '68 shitshow and am hoping for a repeat! |
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Quoted: Never really thought about it before but apparently I own a few of each type. I didn't even realize I was collecting PDWs - and I'm even a completionist! Same. And I actually have two of the four in the 9 Hole Reviews screen grab in the form of an SBR'd PS90 and a proper AKS74UN  Also have a small chassis thing for a Glock, but that's more for giggles vice actually carrying/using outside of the range. |
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Quoted: Flux Raider-X This is likely my next significant gun purchase, depending on how this year goes. I'm pretty certain that it will fit into my glove box. Quoted: Quoted: This little guy is also decent https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/66797/IMG_1012_jpg-3086238.JPG Flux Raider-X This is likely my next significant gun purchase, depending on how this year goes. I'm pretty certain that it will fit into my glove box. Who makes the Raider-like thingy for Glocks? I have a couple braced chassis from Recover Tactical for a G17.4 that I SBR'd and a G17 sized P80, but they seem clunky and too plasticy to feel confident in them beyond a range toy. Plus, I like the spring-loaded stock/brace on the Raider 
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Quoted: https://i.imgur.com/s6cMpMY.jpeg I’ve walked around with this in my backpack a few times while shopping. @bondryan Who makes that chassis? |
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Quoted: @bondryan Who makes that chassis? Quoted: Quoted: https://i.imgur.com/s6cMpMY.jpeg I’ve walked around with this in my backpack a few times while shopping. @bondryan Who makes that chassis? @towerofpower94 B&T Glock Conversion |
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Quoted: I”m gathering parts for one of those right now-had to put it off while I dealt with a house fire and acquiring a gun to put it in. Mine will have a 7.5” barrel in 9mm because I have a PA 1x prism scope that is calibrated for 9mm from a 7.5” barrel. I’ve been playing with the 68 grain Lehigh bullets and getting 1740fps out of a threaded G19 so I expect closer to 2,000 out of the 7.5” barrel. I may also get a .357 sig barrel as those do more like 2300fps in an 8” barrel. This will be a “walk out to the outhouse at night” gun as we have bears and coyote in the area near my cabin and they get hungry in the winter. Quoted: Quoted: https://i.imgur.com/s6cMpMY.jpeg I’ve walked around with this in my backpack a few times while shopping. I”m gathering parts for one of those right now-had to put it off while I dealt with a house fire and acquiring a gun to put it in. Mine will have a 7.5” barrel in 9mm because I have a PA 1x prism scope that is calibrated for 9mm from a 7.5” barrel. I’ve been playing with the 68 grain Lehigh bullets and getting 1740fps out of a threaded G19 so I expect closer to 2,000 out of the 7.5” barrel. I may also get a .357 sig barrel as those do more like 2300fps in an 8” barrel. This will be a “walk out to the outhouse at night” gun as we have bears and coyote in the area near my cabin and they get hungry in the winter. @TheOtherDave Where are you getting the long Glock barrels? They also threaded? |