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Stocked pistols are dumb. They're too big to conceal when holstered and if you're going to stick it in a bag or something then you might as well use a larger SMG that's easier to shoot. I'm speaking from experience here; I have a Glock SBR. But larger pistol caliber SMGs have sort of the same issue. If I'm going to stick something in a bag, I might as well choose something that has similar external dimensions, just in a rifle caliber. Attached File |
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Quoted: A lot of the type 1, 2 and 3 are just oversized pistols unless full auto. You can get 33 round mags for your Glock 9mm pistol. “Its useless unless its full auto” is a common myth when this stuff gets talked about. I think any amount of time actually shooting drills/competitions with your glock vs a glock in a b&t chassis would say more on the subject than I could. My experiences with semi auto type 1, 2 and 3 guns disagree strongly with your assertion. |
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Quoted: Stocked pistols are dumb. They're too big to conceal when holstered and if you're going to stick it in a bag or something then you might as well use a larger SMG that's easier to shoot. I'm speaking from experience here; I have a Glock SBR. But larger pistol caliber SMGs have sort of the same issue. If I'm going to stick something in a bag, I might as well choose something that has similar external dimensions, just in a rifle caliber. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/13367/rattler_jpg-3086827.JPG @CleverNickname What bag is that, if you don't mind my asking? I'm looking for a smaller bag than I'm currently using, for my Rattler. |
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Quoted: Does anyone actually run around with their PDW bag in daily life? I think I'll stick to CCW and rifle in vehicle. I don't like sub guns. I have a rifle in my truck and carry a commander size 1911. The premise of this thread does make sense. I think my Canik TP9SFX would be a good chasis host. I've been eyeballing thr CAA MCK. |
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Quoted: What bag is that, if you don't mind my asking? I'm looking for a smaller bag than I'm currently using, for my Rattler. Quoted: What bag is that, if you don't mind my asking? I'm looking for a smaller bag than I'm currently using, for my Rattler. It's a Goruck 21L with a Grey Man Tactical Molle panel. Quoted: …I would put the safety on.  Hammer's down. Can't put the safety on when it's down. |
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Quoted: What handguard is that? Quoted: What handguard is that? PSA "Soviet Arms" AKV. https://palmettostatearmory.com/soviet-arms-8-akv-lower-rail.html @AS556 |
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Quoted: @TheOtherDave Where are you getting the long Glock barrels? They also threaded? ZFI/YRH carry them in 7.5, 10, and 16” lengths. Over 10” they use an included gas booster-no experience with them. These are made by Impulse and they import them. Not cheap though at $296 so wait for sales. Just search for 7.5 inch Glock barrel. IIRC, they are all threaded but I don’t know how a can would work out on the 10 or 16” barrel with the gas booster… wondering about it with the 7.5”…. That’s a lot of weight flopping around out there. |
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Quoted: @bondryan Who makes that chassis? Quoted: Quoted: https://i.imgur.com/s6cMpMY.jpeg I’ve walked around with this in my backpack a few times while shopping. @bondryan Who makes that chassis? B&t. I think I paid $300 ish for it engraved from Tar Heel 5 years ago. It’s a fun little blaster and is incredibly good at its purpose. The non moving red dot makes it easy to shoot follow up shots accurately. |
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Quoted: B&t. I think I paid $300 ish for it engraved from Tar Heel 5 years ago. It’s a fun little blaster and is incredibly good at its purpose. The non moving red dot makes it easy to shoot follow up shots accurately. You engraved the stock? Engraving locations are the frame or barrel. |
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Quoted: B&t. I think I paid $300 ish for it engraved from Tar Heel 5 years ago. It’s a fun little blaster and is incredibly good at its purpose. The non moving red dot makes it easy to shoot follow up shots accurately. Going rate seems to be $350 and will be the best chassis you can buy in terms of build quality and flex-that can matter on longer shots. I have two of these chassis kits, one bought before my house fire and the other after, waiting to be built. One thing I can say I am not at all happy with is the pic rail mount-it has a lot of slop on the factory Aimpoint rail and those are tiny screws that you have to expect to hold zero… I’ll be doweling or split pinning mine. |
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Quoted: B&t. I think I paid $300 ish for it engraved from Tar Heel 5 years ago. It’s a fun little blaster and is incredibly good at its purpose. The non moving red dot makes it easy to shoot follow up shots accurately. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: https://i.imgur.com/s6cMpMY.jpeg I’ve walked around with this in my backpack a few times while shopping. @bondryan Who makes that chassis? B&t. I think I paid $300 ish for it engraved from Tar Heel 5 years ago. It’s a fun little blaster and is incredibly good at its purpose. The non moving red dot makes it easy to shoot follow up shots accurately. Thanks. I Form 1’d my G17.4 and G21.4 while bored on a deployment and while the Recover 20/20 kit kinda gets you messing with a chassis’d pistol for cheap, it’s far from a perfect solution. |
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I love MP5s. I grew up on Dick Marcinko books and thought an MP5-SD would be the coolest gun in the world to own. But technology has improved. The only reason to shoot a 9mm PDW is if the magazine goes in the grip. For that configuration, I like the USW-1 or the B&T Glock chassis, or for a slightly bigger variant the TP9.  For just a little more size, you can step up to a rifle cartridge and all the benefits that brings.  At one point I had a picture of a Sig Rattler laying next to a 1911 to show the size difference. They are closer dimension-wise than you might imagine. |
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Beautiful guns. I would rather not be a Poor, but such are the wages of previous bad decisions. The 5.7 Rock and 16" AR with collapsable stock will have to do for now. Dropping only a foot at 200 yds (though I still have to test that) and still remaining supersonic to there, isn't half-bad for a souped up .22 pistol that conceals like a regular full-sized Glock. It's not going to do a hell of a lot of damage at 200 but it's still better than harsh language. Price & time no object, probably do the 10.5" AR with a can. Or a similarly barrelled AUG with same. "Rifles are rifles and pistols are pistols," after all. PCCs are fun---the M1 Carbine should be in everyone's house, if only to teach people how to shoot centerfire---I just don't see the point vs a SBR AR. |
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Quoted: First time I've heard the term Personal Defense Weapon. Isn't your EDC a PDW? You are carrying a pistol on your person every day right? I'm not sure folks will ever agree on these terms, but it seems to have become a more popular way to refer to pistol caliber SBRs/subguns, perhaps in response to purists balking at one being referred to as a PCC if it is not a pistol caliber version of something also available in rifle caliber. Yes, I have actually seen folks have a hissy fit on that issue. Of course, here we are with rifle caliber thrown into the mix, so who knows. |
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Which stock/brace is that? I want it. |
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Quoted: You engraved the stock? Engraving locations are the frame or barrel. Quoted: Quoted: B&t. I think I paid $300 ish for it engraved from Tar Heel 5 years ago. It’s a fun little blaster and is incredibly good at its purpose. The non moving red dot makes it easy to shoot follow up shots accurately. You engraved the stock? Engraving locations are the frame or barrel. That’s where they engraved it. It’s only an sbr if it’s in the chassis. |
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Quoted: I built this thing. 300 blk. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/53356/20190328_222338_jpg-3087140.JPG Care to list the specs on the PDW? |
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Quoted: I'm not sure folks will ever agree on these terms, but it seems to have become a more popular way to refer to pistol caliber SBRs/subguns, perhaps in response to purists balking at one being referred to as a PCC if it is not a pistol caliber version of something also available in rifle caliber. Yes, I have actually seen folks have a hissy fit on that issue. Of course, here we are with rifle caliber thrown into the mix, so who knows. That sounds about par for the course for not only GD but the gun community in general. I still don't understand.
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Quoted: That’s where they engraved it. It’s only an sbr if it’s in the chassis. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: B&t. I think I paid $300 ish for it engraved from Tar Heel 5 years ago. It’s a fun little blaster and is incredibly good at its purpose. The non moving red dot makes it easy to shoot follow up shots accurately. You engraved the stock? Engraving locations are the frame or barrel. That’s where they engraved it. It’s only an sbr if it’s in the chassis. It's true that it's not an SBR unless it's in the chassis, but that still doesn't mean that engraving the chassis is an acceptable location to meet the identification requirements in 27 CFR § 479.102 either. If it was 5 years ago, engraving the frame or barrel would have been OK. Now it's just the frame. I engraved the barrel hood on my G17L SBR, using an aftermarket barrel so that if I wanted to could revert it to a pistol later without having any extra markings remaining. What you did would be the equivalent of SBRing an AR15 pistol and then putting your makers info on the stock. |
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Quoted: It's true that it's not an SBR unless it's in the chassis, but that still doesn't mean that engraving the chassis is an acceptable location to meet the identification requirements in 27 CFR § 479.102 either. If it was 5 years ago, engraving the frame or barrel would have been OK. Now it's just the frame. I engraved the barrel hood on my G17L SBR, using an aftermarket barrel so that if I wanted to could revert it to a pistol later without having any extra markings remaining. What you did would be the equivalent of SBRing an AR15 pistol and then putting your makers info on the stock. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: B&t. I think I paid $300 ish for it engraved from Tar Heel 5 years ago. It’s a fun little blaster and is incredibly good at its purpose. The non moving red dot makes it easy to shoot follow up shots accurately. You engraved the stock? Engraving locations are the frame or barrel. That’s where they engraved it. It’s only an sbr if it’s in the chassis. It's true that it's not an SBR unless it's in the chassis, but that still doesn't mean that engraving the chassis is an acceptable location to meet the identification requirements in 27 CFR § 479.102 either. If it was 5 years ago, engraving the frame or barrel would have been OK. Now it's just the frame. I engraved the barrel hood on my G17L SBR, using an aftermarket barrel so that if I wanted to could revert it to a pistol later without having any extra markings remaining. What you did would be the equivalent of SBRing an AR15 pistol and then putting your makers info on the stock. I’m curious to how that works on the Sig P320 version. |
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Quoted: I love MP5s. I grew up on Dick Marcinko books and thought an MP5-SD would be the coolest gun in the world to own. But technology has improved. The only reason to shoot a 9mm PDW is if the magazine goes in the grip. For that configuration, I like the USW-1 or the B&T Glock chassis, or for a slightly bigger variant the TP9. https://axarms.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/unnamed-86-scaled.jpg For just a little more size, you can step up to a rifle cartridge and all the benefits that brings. https://i0.wp.com/cms.sofrep.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/SIG-MCX-Rattler.jpg?fit=1902%2C971&ssl=1&w=800 At one point I had a picture of a Sig Rattler laying next to a 1911 to show the size difference. They are closer dimension-wise than you might imagine. The USW-A1 is a really, really good PDW for real world applications. Unlike chassis guns and sorta PDW’s like the semi TP9’s, it actually is handgun sized rather than PDW sized. It carries like a handgun, it points like a handgun, but it also has the ability to be fired from the shoulder and has a really, really damned nice single action trigger. It is, after all, just an. CZ Sphinx with a stock trunion and optics bridge.. Anecdotally, the USW is the quietest suppressed 9mm platform I have ever heard, because of the CZ action. It must have crazy long lock time or something… Barrel doesn’t tilt a lot when firing, which should go some way in aiding reliability when suppressed. I can face shoot a target at 120 yards with mine. It’s my favorite gun I have ever bought-looks gimmicky, but holy hell does it work. I also like the braced glocks I have done with the 20/20 chassis’s, but they can have accuracy issues if you don’t pull them into your shoulder hard enough-kind of like shooting an open bolt subgun in semi… there is a little flex in them, but man sized targets at extended range are no problem. What you can’t do with any of these guns is shoot them from a bench off of your elbows-the mechanics of that puts rounds all over the fucking place… I”m a USPSA and 2 gun competitor and usually finish mid-pack… I’d be embarrassed to have anyone see a group I shot with one of these off of a bench-you aren’t even getting minute of pumpkin at 15 yards. Really hoping my USW-Glock compares more favorably to the USW-A1 than the 20/20 braces in performance. |
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Quoted: I’m curious to how that works on the Sig P320 version. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: B&t. I think I paid $300 ish for it engraved from Tar Heel 5 years ago. It’s a fun little blaster and is incredibly good at its purpose. The non moving red dot makes it easy to shoot follow up shots accurately. You engraved the stock? Engraving locations are the frame or barrel. That’s where they engraved it. It’s only an sbr if it’s in the chassis. It's true that it's not an SBR unless it's in the chassis, but that still doesn't mean that engraving the chassis is an acceptable location to meet the identification requirements in 27 CFR § 479.102 either. If it was 5 years ago, engraving the frame or barrel would have been OK. Now it's just the frame. I engraved the barrel hood on my G17L SBR, using an aftermarket barrel so that if I wanted to could revert it to a pistol later without having any extra markings remaining. What you did would be the equivalent of SBRing an AR15 pistol and then putting your makers info on the stock. I’m curious to how that works on the Sig P320 version. You'd have to engrave the FCU, but since there's also a requirement that the engraved makers info be visible without disassembling the gun then yeah that does seem to make it difficult. |
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For crowd control… my PDW choice. Compact with long barrel, 60rds, holo sight, light. Reliable. Attached File |
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Quoted: For crowd control… my PDW choice. Compact with long barrel, 60rds, holo sight, light. Reliable. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/49447/IMG_1225_jpeg-3087487.JPG How do you get your arm around the drum? If it gets bad enough I need a PDW it'll be something with a Lage Max-15 upper on it hanging from a sling. |
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My pistol is on me or at hand 24/7. if I feel the need for more, the 10.5" 300blk is about 90 seconds from assembly - at this point in flyover country I think that's not unreasonable. Sheriffs office is 3 blocks from my work, courthouse is across the street. at home a full sized rifle is at hand. sometimes more than one, getting the small parts lined up to finish off the latest builds means I might have 2 or 3 next to me plus the hd blaster. 300blk is a Dolos takedown. 10.5" barrel, Holosun 510, Fab Defense folding grip, SBA3. plus five magazines. used to fit in a 17" laptop bag, now it's in the bottom of a Vertx backpack. company owner knows it's in there, has no issues with it. planning a can at some point. |
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@d16man This is the "hot girl farm girl" equivalent of the firearms world. Suppressed shorty AKs are super sexy. If your name refers to the Honda engine, I hope you've done well for yourself 
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Quoted: @d16man This is the "hot girl farm girl" equivalent of the firearms world. Suppressed shorty AKs are super sexy. If your name refers to the Honda engine, I hope you've done well for yourself Quoted: @d16man This is the "hot girl farm girl" equivalent of the firearms world. Suppressed shorty AKs are super sexy. If your name refers to the Honda engine, I hope you've done well for yourself Doesn't refer to the engine @Primetime_1 . But my AK-V is so much fun. I can dump the mag in about 4 seconds because of how easy it bumpfires. |
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Quoted: @d16man This is the "hot girl farm girl" equivalent of the firearms world. Suppressed shorty AKs are super sexy. If your name refers to the Honda engine, I hope you've done well for yourself Quoted: @d16man This is the "hot girl farm girl" equivalent of the firearms world. Suppressed shorty AKs are super sexy. If your name refers to the Honda engine, I hope you've done well for yourself Totally digging his stock, too. We may need details... |
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Quoted: B&t. I think I paid $300 ish for it engraved from Tar Heel 5 years ago. It’s a fun little blaster and is incredibly good at its purpose. The non moving red dot makes it easy to shoot follow up shots accurately. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: https://i.imgur.com/s6cMpMY.jpeg I’ve walked around with this in my backpack a few times while shopping. @bondryan Who makes that chassis? B&t. I think I paid $300 ish for it engraved from Tar Heel 5 years ago. It’s a fun little blaster and is incredibly good at its purpose. The non moving red dot makes it easy to shoot follow up shots accurately. I have one of these as well and it's a laser. |
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Quoted: Rattler with a K can. Fits in a basic (tiny, 19L) Northface backpack with suppressor attached. Didn't buy it to be my traveling PDW but I'll be damned if it isn't perfect in that role. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/359052/1000005533_jpg-3085930.JPG Attached File |
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My “get home/ bag gun” is a sub 2000 Loses points in deployment speed but small enough to fit in a vertx sling bag. Makes it easy carrying more ammo being so light and sharing mags with my glock 49. It’s enough to get to my preferred AR or my A300 patrol. In that context the priority would be escape and evade and keeping a lower profile pays off IMO. |
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Quoted: First time I've heard the term Personal Defense Weapon. Isn't your EDC a PDW? You are carrying a pistol on your person every day right? In essence, a weapon was desired for personnel whose primary job wasn't fighting such as mechanics, drivers, engineers etc. Handguns were the default, but limited magazine capacity, poor sights and no real doctrine of pistol fighting(the Modern Technique was decades away) made pistols ineffective. Various SMGs were pressed into service but the M1 carbine was the first purpose built PDW. The concept was considered valid enough that it was pursued throughout the Cold War. The fundamental limitations were weight, compactness, effective range and capacity. The goalposts kept moving: 200 meter effective range, armor piercing etc, NATO nations couldn't agree on whose cartridge or factories to use and the development of shorty assault rifles and then the end of the Cold War just knocked the wind from its sails. In the citizen context, a lot of people beg the question, asserting that between a concealed pistol and a rifle they're covered, and there's a lot of truth in that for most people's use cases. The growth industries of active shooters and Riots-On-Demand sparked an interest in so-called "Bag Guns", shoulder weapons compact and light enough to carry in a small backpack/messenger bag, and much more capable than a pistol at ranges beyond a few yards, or striking a more decisive blow. Essentially, the PDW concept, able to be moved through non-SHTF civil society in more unsettled times when engagement with the world-jobs, school, shopping, going to church-are still going to have to be done. Lots of developments have really muddied the waters. Hi-cap pistols loaded with JHPs and fired two handed in controlled rapid fire are far more effective than 1911s fired one handed with tiny sights in single shots on bullseye style courses. Civilian shooters shoot much higher round counts in practice than soldiers ever did. Optics extend reach and comps increase effective rates of fire. Likewise carbine CQB is much better understood and optics and 2 point slings allow smaller weapons to be more accurately employed and carried conveniently. |
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Quoted: Want a new Rattler LT. But struggling with spending that much on it. Probably build another DI 300 blk. Centurion arms has a new 5.5" barrel that looks like a good place to start. Yeah, the Sig price tag is no joke. What about a BRN-180 with low pro side folder brace/stock on a regular lower? I'm sure someone has done the measurement comparison game with something like that, no? |
