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Posted: 12/11/2017 4:35:10 PM EDT
[#1]
I just finished reading "Artemis" by Andy Weir, author of the "The Martian".
It's set about 50 years in the future, in a working Moon city called Artemis. The setup to how it was created is quite plausible, as is the tourism-based economy. Power from nuclear reactors. Aluminum for the dome construction from a smelter powered by the reactors, which also produce oxygen as a by-product. Most everything is imported from Earth except "gunk" which is an awful algae-based food product grown on the Moon. This isn't Moonbase Alpha silliness, instead it seems like something that could really happen. I'll trust Weir got the science right or mostly right. |
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Posted: 12/11/2017 5:05:22 PM EDT
[#2]
Didnt we already put a base there in 99??
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Posted: 12/11/2017 5:10:46 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'd settle for a permanent Moon base first. |
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Posted: 12/11/2017 5:12:36 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Those places could use some climate change. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Is it too soon to complain about Liberals screaming that we will cause "Climate Change" on the Moon and Mars?  I suggest we send all the liberals there so they can make it the paradise they envision. |
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Posted: 12/11/2017 5:14:02 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Didnt we already put a base there in 99??
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/112200/022-space-1999-theredlist-387925.jpg |
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Posted: 12/11/2017 5:14:13 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Didnt we already put a base there in 99??
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/112200/022-space-1999-theredlist-387925.jpg |
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Posted: 12/11/2017 5:16:59 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
OK. Still mining as you would want to attempt to refine useful materials from the regolith for your moon base... But it might be easier to seal up existing hollows (lava tubes). I'm just not convinced of the utility of a Moon base over Mars exploration. The moon is an airless bunch of crater riddle Earth mantle material/solidified lava... and that is all it ever was. Mars might have been a living planet once. The Moon's gravity well is plenty deep, but the dV you need to get there vs Mars isn't that different especially on account of Mars having an atmosphere for aerobraking. Mars also has nice 12.3 hour long nights while the Moon has 328 hour long nights. Thermal management is much tougher on the moon because of the long days/nights combined with (near) vacuum. The problem with Mars is the transit time to get there (and lag for emergent resupply) but nuclear propulsion reduces this problem a lot. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: I only brought up mining as in to dig out tunnels and make large chambers deep under the moon's surface, not really mining, so excavating I suppose. But it might be easier to seal up existing hollows (lava tubes). I'm just not convinced of the utility of a Moon base over Mars exploration. The moon is an airless bunch of crater riddle Earth mantle material/solidified lava... and that is all it ever was. Mars might have been a living planet once. The Moon's gravity well is plenty deep, but the dV you need to get there vs Mars isn't that different especially on account of Mars having an atmosphere for aerobraking. Mars also has nice 12.3 hour long nights while the Moon has 328 hour long nights. Thermal management is much tougher on the moon because of the long days/nights combined with (near) vacuum. The problem with Mars is the transit time to get there (and lag for emergent resupply) but nuclear propulsion reduces this problem a lot. |
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Posted: 12/11/2017 5:18:45 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I just finished reading "Artemis" by Andy Weir, author of the "The Martian". It's set about 50 years in the future, in a working Moon city called Artemis. The setup to how it was created is quite plausible, as is the tourism-based economy. Power from nuclear reactors. Aluminum for the dome construction from a smelter powered by the reactors, which also produce oxygen as a by-product. Most everything is imported from Earth except "gunk" which is an awful algae-based food product grown on the Moon. This isn't Moonbase Alpha silliness, instead it seems like something that could really happen. I'll trust Weir got the science right or mostly right. www.amazon.com/dp/B06Y55SB48 |
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Posted: 12/11/2017 5:19:28 PM EDT
[#9]
I'd like to see the dependents of our country launched to the moon / mars first, to begin colonization efforts with the program. If they die, they benefit mankind on earth. If they live, they benefit mankind in outer space exploration. They will be heros to us all.
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Posted: 12/11/2017 5:19:59 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryGoatboy should fix this... |
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Posted: 12/11/2017 5:22:10 PM EDT
[#11]
Those Eagles are still yet one of my top favorite sci-fi spacecraft.
They are the most realistic as far as function and design to something that would be useful. Dont need wings in space. 
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Posted: 12/11/2017 5:22:20 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
the latest "potential" discovery of lava tubes (31 miles long) on the moon has possibilities but still much harsher than mars if i made a conjecture about mars core not moving anymore, possibly it could be the interaction of the sun's magnetic field and our iron core which keeps ours moving (sun mag field = stator , earth iron core = rotor, earth orbit = commutation => in other words an electric motor) where as mars is just far enough away (inverse cube law) that magnetic effects were not sufficient to keep its core moving Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: I'd settle for a permanent Moon base first. absolutely no atmosphere everything has to be a pressure vessel extreme low gravity radiation temperature differentials micro meteor hazards regolith sticks to everything and is carcinogenic just to name a few a moon base would need to be under ground with minimal activity on the surface if i made a conjecture about mars core not moving anymore, possibly it could be the interaction of the sun's magnetic field and our iron core which keeps ours moving (sun mag field = stator , earth iron core = rotor, earth orbit = commutation => in other words an electric motor) where as mars is just far enough away (inverse cube law) that magnetic effects were not sufficient to keep its core moving |
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Posted: 12/11/2017 5:22:38 PM EDT
[#13]
I'm all for it, but I'm at a loss as to how he thinks we'll pay for it. Give up the wall...for starters?
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Posted: 12/11/2017 5:26:46 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: http://www.youtube.com/watch?t=22s&v=PtBy_ppG4hY ETA: apparently I am too dumb to post YouTube videos  Failed To Load Title |
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Posted: 12/11/2017 5:29:43 PM EDT
[#15]
Page three, in before a flat earther!
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Posted: 12/11/2017 6:10:32 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wow, I have never thought about that! I wonder if that sort of thing is taken into account when searching for other Earth like planets? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: I'd settle for a permanent Moon base first. absolutely no atmosphere everything has to be a pressure vessel extreme low gravity radiation temperature differentials micro meteor hazards regolith sticks to everything and is carcinogenic just to name a few a moon base would need to be under ground with minimal activity on the surface if i made a conjecture about mars core not moving anymore, possibly it could be the interaction of the sun's magnetic field and our iron core which keeps ours moving (sun mag field = stator , earth iron core = rotor, earth orbit = commutation => in other words an electric motor) where as mars is just far enough away (inverse cube law) that magnetic effects were not sufficient to keep its core moving maybe the zone also has ideal field strength conditions for that particular star |
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Posted: 12/11/2017 6:12:26 PM EDT
[#17]
1) Fire up one of the old apollo landers.
2) Go to moon and annex it for MURICA 3) With the rail gun in the cargo compartment. 4) 10 years from now you couldn't toss a beer can away without it hitting Chinese, Indian and Russian astronauts. 5) Presiously fantastical technologies will suddenly become commonplace. Just like the first space race. |
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Posted: 12/11/2017 6:21:33 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I loved that show. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Didnt we already put a base there in 99??
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/112200/022-space-1999-theredlist-387925.jpg |
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Posted: 12/11/2017 6:56:58 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
With an FFRE you could probably push a decent space telescope way out to the edge of the solar system, maybe an outer planet lagrange point. would probably take a few years but who give a fuck. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: And how radio "bright" is Earth at 1 million miles? would probably take a few years but who give a fuck. |
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Posted: 12/11/2017 6:59:41 PM EDT
[#20]
The next Democrat President will simply rescind the order and we'll be back right here again.
You know, like Hussein did. |
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Posted: 12/11/2017 8:13:44 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So enlighten me as to what we are cutting in order to make this economically feasible? Adding more to the national debt in order to skip around on the moon is not what we need right now. |
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Posted: 12/11/2017 8:28:26 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'd settle for a permanent Moon base first. |
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Posted: 12/11/2017 8:35:48 PM EDT
[#23]
Moon base is dumb. Permanent space station in L1 is smart.
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Posted: 12/11/2017 8:39:17 PM EDT
[#24]
President Donald Trump on Monday will sign a directive aimed at sending Americans back to the moon 
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Posted: 12/11/2017 8:40:15 PM EDT
[#25]
Praise Kek
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Posted: 12/11/2017 8:51:58 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No sense in worrying about space when we can't even send the illegals back. |
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Posted: 12/11/2017 9:08:48 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We spend about $16b/year on NASA, which is equal to what we spend on welfare-type programs every 2-3 days. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
New technologies spur economic growth. If you want to cut costs, cut welfare. Welfare is ripe with fraud; let the cleaned-up FBI start there and shut down able bodied people being on the dole. NASA put men on the moon, multiple missions, using less than 5% of the national budget. |
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Posted: 12/11/2017 9:11:22 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Moon Base Alpha would have been smarter than building the ISS... Also I watched the ISS fly by the other night... |
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Posted: 12/11/2017 9:56:13 PM EDT
[#29]
Gotta get off this rock and colonize others. Furthermore we need to add territory to the US. Entire astrological bodies seems fitting.
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Posted: 12/11/2017 9:57:11 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Presiously fantastical technologies will suddenly become commonplace. Just like the first space race. There have been some materials science spin offs from the Shuttle program but not since the 80s. Computer and the related technologies? Nope. You don't have a thing in your house or car that is a spin off from 1985+ space program investment. Perhaps if we build it, that will come but I doubt it. Me, I want an EM drive and a fusion reactor not a new flag on the moon. That will only happen with private investment not .gov program. |
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Posted: 12/11/2017 10:51:57 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think it will be pretty hard for illegals to make it to the moon or Mars. |
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Posted: 12/11/2017 11:05:49 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The "technology spin off" argument for space program investment is very old and very stale. There were some on the 60s but arguably their time would have come regardless. There have been some materials science spin offs from the Shuttle program but not since the 80s. Computer and the related technologies? Nope. You don't have a thing in your house or car that is a spin off from 1985+ space program investment. Perhaps if we build it, that will come but I doubt it. Me, I want an EM drive and a fusion reactor not a new flag on the moon. That will only happen with private investment not .gov program. https://spinoff.nasa.gov/ https://www.nasa.gov/offices/oct/40-years-of-nasa-spinoff |
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Posted: 12/11/2017 11:14:25 PM EDT
[#33]
How is he going to get that to happen? Hollywood doesn't support him.
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Posted: 12/11/2017 11:16:21 PM EDT
[#34]
WE'RE FUCKING BROKE.
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Posted: 12/11/2017 11:17:49 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
WE'RE FUCKING BROKE. |
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Posted: 12/11/2017 11:21:46 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
we're always going to be fucking broke. Might as well make fun and interesting. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
WE'RE FUCKING BROKE. I get sick of people who want to spend my money and my kids' and grandkids' money on shit they think would be cool. It's no better than liberals who want to force everyone to pay for health care. If it's so great, then pay for it yourself. Or STFU and realize you're not willing to put your money where your mouth is. If government sucks at everything it does, why do we need it to go to space? Why? |
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Posted: 12/11/2017 11:25:52 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So we all have to want what you want? I get sick of people who want to spend my money and my kids' and grandkids' money on shit they think would be cool. It's no better than liberals who want to force everyone to pay for health care. If it's so great, then pay for it yourself. Or STFU and realize you're not willing to put your money where your mouth is. If government sucks at everything it does, why do we need it to go to space? Why? it WILL be militarized sooner or later im just throwing that out there. and id rather we write the book on it than our competitors. |
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Posted: 12/11/2017 11:28:06 PM EDT
[#38]
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Posted: 12/11/2017 11:29:16 PM EDT
[#39]
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Posted: 12/11/2017 11:30:51 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: so youd rather allow the russians or chinese have a stronger foothold in space than the united states? it WILL be militarized sooner or later im just throwing that out there. and id rather we write the book on it than our competitors. |
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Posted: 12/11/2017 11:37:50 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So we all have to want what you want? I get sick of people who want to spend my money and my kids' and grandkids' money on shit they think would be cool. It's no better than liberals who want to force everyone to pay for health care. If it's so great, then pay for it yourself. Or STFU and realize you're not willing to put your money where your mouth is. If government sucks at everything it does, why do we need it to go to space? Why? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
WE'RE FUCKING BROKE. I get sick of people who want to spend my money and my kids' and grandkids' money on shit they think would be cool. It's no better than liberals who want to force everyone to pay for health care. If it's so great, then pay for it yourself. Or STFU and realize you're not willing to put your money where your mouth is. If government sucks at everything it does, why do we need it to go to space? Why? |
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Posted: 12/11/2017 11:40:54 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So enlighten me as to what we are cutting in order to make this economically feasible? Adding more to the national debt in order to skip around on the moon is not what we need right now. Whoever gets the first mover advantage in space in terms of a permanent manned presence will dictate the direction of our solar system for centuries to come. Look at our own hemisphere. It is what it is because of those who blazed the trail 500 years ago. Eastern cultures can't take that back and declare a redo in order to have another shot at it. What's done is done. |
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Posted: 12/11/2017 11:51:08 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Aside from all the science and technology benefits, how about national pride? Besides, is government the best hope for us to get into space? Again, if government sucks at everything, why do we need it for this? If there is so much to gain economically by getting to Mars, is government the best thing to get us there? |
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Posted: 12/12/2017 12:04:32 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Its a national security issue that spans generations. The historical advantages if naval and air superiority will eventually pale in comparison to space superiority. Whoever gets the first mover advantage in space in terms of a permanent manned presence will dictate the direction of our solar system for centuries to come. Look at our own hemisphere. It is what it is because of those who blazed the trail 500 years ago. Eastern cultures can't take that back and declare a redo in order to have another shot at it. What's done is done. Why will we be better for it? Are you ready to fight Mars when they have Gadsden flags flying? Why the fuck would they keep the US around once they're self sufficient? Strategically, I think it's more important for us to be a prosperous nation NOW. How much money should we sink into trying to get to Mars when effectively we're doing the R&D for China to simply copy later? We. Are. Broke. |
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Posted: 12/12/2017 12:18:19 AM EDT
[#45]
Pissing away tax dollars on some masturbatory science fiction fantasy is winning?
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Posted: 12/12/2017 12:28:18 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pissing away tax dollars on some masturbatory science fiction fantasy is winning? "Science! You must fund it! Or we're DOOOOMMMMED!!!!" |
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Posted: 12/12/2017 12:37:39 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Rome grew way too large, and got their dicks slapped. Persia grew way too large, and got their dicks slapped. Britain grew way too large, and got their dicks slapped. We are already doing too much. And all of those countries saw a quality of life drop compared to what they used to have. Which country colonized successfully and permanently beyond having another group of people that spoke their language? Mexico rebelled successfully against Spain. The US vs Britain. India vs the UK. Etc, etc. Why will we be better for it? Are you ready to fight Mars when they have Gadsden flags flying? Why the fuck would they keep the US around once they're self sufficient? Strategically, I think it's more important for us to be a prosperous nation NOW. How much money should we sink into trying to get to Mars when effectively we're doing the R&D for China to simply copy later? We. Are. Broke. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Its a national security issue that spans generations. The historical advantages if naval and air superiority will eventually pale in comparison to space superiority. Whoever gets the first mover advantage in space in terms of a permanent manned presence will dictate the direction of our solar system for centuries to come. Look at our own hemisphere. It is what it is because of those who blazed the trail 500 years ago. Eastern cultures can't take that back and declare a redo in order to have another shot at it. What's done is done. Why will we be better for it? Are you ready to fight Mars when they have Gadsden flags flying? Why the fuck would they keep the US around once they're self sufficient? Strategically, I think it's more important for us to be a prosperous nation NOW. How much money should we sink into trying to get to Mars when effectively we're doing the R&D for China to simply copy later? We. Are. Broke. Who has been Britain's most valuable ally over the past century? The U.S. Why? Language and culture. How did that happen? Because they colonized this land first. Zooming further out, why is English spoken almost every where in the world whereas nobody gives a fuck about Swahili? Empire. So yeah, I'd be happy to sign up for the rise and fall of an America empire in space if only to leave our footprint in terms of language and culture. "We are broke" is a bullshit cop out. We are so rich that we pay people to stay home and farmers not to farm. We have every ability to prioritize a grand strategic plan for exploration over a million other things if we choose to. |
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Posted: 12/12/2017 12:48:49 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm glad you bring up the example of the U.S. rebelling against Britain because it only illustrates my point. Who has been Britain's most valuable ally over the past century? The U.S. Why? Language and culture. How did that happen? Because they colonized this land first. Zooming further out, why is English spoken almost every where in the world whereas nobody gives a fuck about Swahili? Empire. So yeah, I'd be happy to sign up for the rise and fall of an America empire in space if only to leave our footprint in terms of language and culture. "We are broke" is a bullshit cop out. We are so rich that we pay people to stay home and farmers not to farm. We have every ability to prioritize a grand strategic plan for exploration over a million other things if we choose to. And nobody is answering the question. If government sucks at everything, why are they best suited for this? And in what universe is "We are broke" a bullshit cop-out, but "We are broke and we already waste a lot of money so let's waste more" is a sound strategy? |
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Posted: 12/12/2017 1:03:56 AM EDT
[#49]
@woodsie your avatar bothers me... the spent shells should not arc down Z... they should fly straight up the Y axis. I try telling myself the RCS is translating up the Z axis, but I'm not buying it.
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Posted: 12/12/2017 11:15:37 AM EDT
[#50]
SpaceX FTW
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