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Posted: 8/12/2013 1:58:51 PM EST
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A 1 MOA rifle owner is someone that shoots the course with their rifle locked into a rest or uses some other kind of stabilization system that is not allowed in the regular competition No, that is not correct. It is a "Catch-all class for anyone wishing to use a lead-sled, large sandbag set-up, or other assisting device prohibited from the other classes." It doesn't just mean "locked into a rest" like with a Caldwell Lead Sled or such a device that "locks" the rifle into a machine. It just means using some equipment that was judged "non allowed" such as a leather rear bag. I can guarantee you that most shooters on this forum could not use my set up with my leather rear bag and shoot 1 MOA groups, even with my rifles. The rules should have said, "Shooter cannot use a Caldwell lead sled or any device that removes the shooter from the equation. Shooter must remain in control of the rifle at all times." But I followed the rules as listed, even though I believe they are silly. |
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Posted: 8/12/2013 2:07:42 PM EST
[#2]
Give it a try with no rear support and see what happens. That's the ultimate challenge. Gun jumps with every heartbeat. Focusing on breathing and trigger control becomes extremely crucial. Limit yourself to no more than one cup of coffee beforehand.
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Posted: 8/12/2013 2:10:19 PM EST
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Give it a try with no rear support and see what happens. That's the ultimate challenge. Gun jumps with every heartbeat. Focusing on breathing and trigger control becomes extremely crucial. Limit yourself to no more than one cup of coffee beforehand. We could also try hanging upside down and with our eyes closed. 
The point is that the vast majority of folks like the braggarts listed in the first post, can't do what they say they can. They "say" they can shoot "One MOA all day long", but when the chips are down, they can't do any such thing, with or without a rear bag. |
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Posted: 8/12/2013 2:27:14 PM EST
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No, that is not correct. It is a "Catch-all class for anyone wishing to use a lead-sled, large sandbag set-up, or other assisting device prohibited from the other classes." It doesn't just mean "locked into a rest" like with a Caldwell Lead Sled or such a device that "locks" the rifle into a machine. It just means using some equipment that was judged "non allowed" such as a leather rear bag. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: A 1 MOA rifle owner is someone that shoots the course with their rifle locked into a rest or uses some other kind of stabilization system that is not allowed in the regular competition No, that is not correct. It is a "Catch-all class for anyone wishing to use a lead-sled, large sandbag set-up, or other assisting device prohibited from the other classes." It doesn't just mean "locked into a rest" like with a Caldwell Lead Sled or such a device that "locks" the rifle into a machine. It just means using some equipment that was judged "non allowed" such as a leather rear bag. We're trying to say the same thing. thanks for clarifying it. |
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Posted: 8/13/2013 8:15:14 AM EST
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No, that is not correct. It is a "Catch-all class for anyone wishing to use a lead-sled, large sandbag set-up, or other assisting device prohibited from the other classes." It doesn't just mean "locked into a rest" like with a Caldwell Lead Sled or such a device that "locks" the rifle into a machine. It just means using some equipment that was judged "non allowed" such as a leather rear bag. I can guarantee you that most shooters on this forum could not use my set up with my leather rear bag and shoot 1 MOA groups, even with my rifles. The rules should have said, "Shooter cannot use a Caldwell lead sled or any device that removes the shooter from the equation. Shooter must remain in control of the rifle at all times." But I followed the rules as listed, even though I believe they are silly. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
A 1 MOA rifle owner is someone that shoots the course with their rifle locked into a rest or uses some other kind of stabilization system that is not allowed in the regular competition No, that is not correct. It is a "Catch-all class for anyone wishing to use a lead-sled, large sandbag set-up, or other assisting device prohibited from the other classes." It doesn't just mean "locked into a rest" like with a Caldwell Lead Sled or such a device that "locks" the rifle into a machine. It just means using some equipment that was judged "non allowed" such as a leather rear bag. I can guarantee you that most shooters on this forum could not use my set up with my leather rear bag and shoot 1 MOA groups, even with my rifles. The rules should have said, "Shooter cannot use a Caldwell lead sled or any device that removes the shooter from the equation. Shooter must remain in control of the rifle at all times." But I followed the rules as listed, even though I believe they are silly. Guys and all who frequent this thread who own AR's; Let me introduce you to my thread over on the ARs section. It is set up to do exactly what the last several posts here have discussed; Eliminate all non-shooter aids to shooting. NO bench, NO sling. NO prone. NO sticks. NO bipods. NO trees. NO walls. NO bags. Just YOU and your rifle. Please read the rules and...ENJOY THE SHOOTING!! It is a lot of fun! http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/619213__OFFICIAL_ARFCOM_AR_NON_MOA__SHTF__CHALLENGE__.html |
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Posted: 8/13/2013 9:44:07 AM EST
[#6]
REPOST from original thread
ANDRAPOS: Marlin 795 .22LR with YHM Mite silencer - Iron sights (Tech Sights) - CCI Segmented Hollowpoint Subsonic 40grn 1050fps - GROUPS @ 25yds: .515, .755, 1.576, .709, .630. Average CTC @ 25yds 0.837" = 3.348 @ 100yds = 3.197 MOA - did I do that correctly? I shot better than I expected to, seeing that I could hardly see the orange pasties at 25yds. Middle group was horrendous. 
http://i743.photobucket.com/albums/xx78/Andrapos/Arfcom/MOA1_1_zps10bd8a38.jpg http://i743.photobucket.com/albums/xx78/Andrapos/Arfcom/MOA2_2_zps4a520d8e.jpg http://i743.photobucket.com/albums/xx78/Andrapos/Arfcom/MOA2_zpsc5b2b51a.jpg |
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Posted: 8/13/2013 2:52:06 PM EST
[#7]
This is mine from the old thread, it was shot yesterday
So I finally did the challenge today. I used reloads. 175gr Sierra Matchking, 44gr Varget, Federal 210m Primer, 2.855" OAL, Lapua Brass 
Average group size is 0.7506 MOA. If only I had not screwed up the first group 1.199/.868/.391/.786/.509=3.753 3.753/5=0.7506MOA 
Rifle is a Remington 700 SPS Varmint, barrel length is 22" Bell and Carlson Stock that is glass bedded, it has the Karston adjustable cheek piece on it Nikon Monarch X 4-16X50 Scope, Seekins rings and precision armament 20 MOA base. 
chocolateisyummy2: Remington 700 .308 Winchester Bell and Carlson Stock Nikon Monarch X 4X16-50 Handloads 1.255/.909/.410/.823/.533 = avg.786 =.7506 MOA |
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Posted: 8/13/2013 3:24:17 PM EST
[#8]
how big is that rear bag? Looks rather large.
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Posted: 8/13/2013 3:33:17 PM EST
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
how big is that rear bag? Looks rather large. The bag police are here! |
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Posted: 8/13/2013 3:37:22 PM EST
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The bag police are here! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
how big is that rear bag? Looks rather large. The bag police are here! Hey if I had a nice big bag I wouldn't have thrown a few rounds away from the groups. My damn left hand was starting to get sore squeezing the shit out of my rear bag
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Posted: 8/13/2013 3:41:15 PM EST
[#11]
Oh yeah? My bag is a empty pair of socks rolled up.
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Posted: 8/13/2013 3:48:07 PM EST
[#12]
I might use a small bag on my next tries, especially so I can show what my LAR-8 is really capable of. A little support under the stock really steadies the gun in my experience. On my first try, I did it with no bag for the challenge. I should have mounted the targets up higher on the backstop, so that the gun stock was angled down a little lower, allowing me to rest my hand on the bench, and the stock on my hand, instead of hovering it.
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Posted: 8/13/2013 3:52:37 PM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hey if I had a nice big bag I wouldn't have thrown a few rounds away from the groups. My damn left hand was starting to get sore squeezing the shit out of my rear bag Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: how big is that rear bag? Looks rather large. The bag police are here! Hey if I had a nice big bag I wouldn't have thrown a few rounds away from the groups. My damn left hand was starting to get sore squeezing the shit out of my rear bag His looks like one of these I've been using one of these I've also tried one of these, which is the same size, but I don't like what it comes filled with. Here is another brand that appears to be about the same size. Here's a picture of one compared to a hand-made sock bag. All of those are approximately the same size. We are supposed to stick to the type of rear bag that a sniper would have on him, and these "tactical" bags and hand-made sock bags are exactly what a sniper would carry with him. |
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Posted: 8/13/2013 3:59:05 PM EST
[#14]
The rules stated is cannot be bigger than I grapefruit, maybe the rifle is small, but that bag just looks really big.
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Posted: 8/13/2013 4:08:35 PM EST
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The rules stated is cannot be bigger than I grapefruit, maybe the rifle is small, but that bag just looks really big. |
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Posted: 8/14/2013 3:06:45 AM EST
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The rules stated is cannot be bigger than I grapefruit, maybe the rifle is small, but that bag just looks really big. The Red Tac Gear bag in the link is the bag that I used. The picture makes it look bigger than it really is. I definitely have to squeeze the bag. |
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Posted: 8/14/2013 3:26:21 AM EST
[#17]
Here is a picture of my bag that I used with a pack of orbit gum on it for size reference.
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Posted: 8/14/2013 3:27:01 AM EST
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Here is a picture of my bag that I used with a pack of orbit gum on it for size reference. <a href="http://s1173.photobucket.com/user/chocolateisyummy2/media/IMG_20130814_022052.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1173.photobucket.com/albums/r598/chocolateisyummy2/IMG_20130814_022052.jpg</a> Biggest pack of gum I've ever seen. Or it's actually a small bag.
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Posted: 8/14/2013 10:19:34 AM EST
[#19]
My impromptu range session was cancelled. Range was closed.
The day was perfect for it too. 70* partly cloudy, low humidity. Oh well. Not sure I'll be able to go for a while. |
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Posted: 8/14/2013 10:36:42 AM EST
[#20]
Taggeded
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Posted: 8/14/2013 10:55:28 AM EST
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Also... what the heck is a 1 MOA rifle owner? Shouldn't anyone with a target under 1 MOA be listed there? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Also... what the heck is a 1 MOA rifle owner? Shouldn't anyone with a target under 1 MOA be listed there? It would make more sense if any rifle that shot one group under 1 MOA be considered an MOA rifle. After all the rifle did shoot under an MOA... Quoted:
Oh yeah? My bag is a empty pair of socks rolled up. Mine is two GI socks filled with rice and zip tied. |
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Posted: 8/16/2013 8:28:27 PM EST
[#22]
I have two guns to enter into the fray.
First gun: SPR division homebrew AR-15 .223, 18" SS polygonal rifled barrel, RRA two stage trigger. Mueller APT 4.5-14 X 44 Shooting handloads with 55 gr Hornady V-max Forearm resting on bags. Group sizes: .744" .864" .716" .885" 1.101" Average group size: .862" 
Second gun: 22 LR with optic at 50 yards. Savage MK II TR Weaver 40/44 4-12 X 44 Shooting CCI Blazer bulk pack Forearm resting on bags Group sizes: .838" .937" 1.326" .562" .812" Average group size: .895" 
BuickDan/AR-15 18" SPR homebrew .223/RRA 2-stage trigger/Mueller APT 4.5-14X40/Hornady 55 gr V-max handloads Groups: .744" .864" .716" .885" 1.101" Avg= .862" BuickDan/Savage MK II TR .22 LR/Weaver 40/44 4-12X44/CCI Blazer bulk pack Groups: .838" .937" 1.326" .562" .812" Avg= .895" Fixed; not sure how you guys get the final MOA number? |
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Posted: 8/17/2013 6:59:31 PM EST
[#23]
Did this die already??
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Posted: 8/17/2013 7:09:26 PM EST
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
-snip- BuickDan/AR-15 18" SPR homebrew .223/RRA 2-stage trigger/Mueller APT 4.5-14X40/Hornady 55 gr V-max handloads Groups: .744" .864" .716" .885" 1.101" = Avg: .862"0.8231 MOA BuickDan/Savage MK II TR .22 LR/Weaver 40/44 4-12X44/CCI Blazer bulk pack Groups: .744" .864" .716" .885" 1.101" Avg: .862" 1.6463 MOA fixed it for you. |
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Posted: 8/17/2013 7:29:46 PM EST
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
fixed it for you. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
-snip- BuickDan/AR-15 18" SPR homebrew .223/RRA 2-stage trigger/Mueller APT 4.5-14X40/Hornady 55 gr V-max handloads Groups: .744" .864" .716" .885" 1.101" = Avg: .862"0.8231 MOA BuickDan/Savage MK II TR .22 LR/Weaver 40/44 4-12X44/CCI Blazer bulk pack Groups: .744" .864" .716" .885" 1.101" Avg: .862" 1.6463 MOA fixed it for you. i think he needs to fix it even more. Be awful odd for 2 different rifles to shoot the exact same group sizes.... 
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Posted: 8/17/2013 7:51:57 PM EST
[#26]
Okay, here we go:
Picture of the rifle, post-range trip, because the Wife urged me to leave for lunch and I forgot to take a pic while there (next time I'm bringing MREs, or leaving her at home ):
Rifle is a DPMS with a 20" CMMG upper. Geisselle trigger installed. Iron sights used; the red dot is 6 MOA on a good day (  ).
Ammo used was Fiocchi 55gr FMJ. I don't expect to get to (or under) 1 MOA with this rifle as-is. Oh, well. 
ETA for complete info line format: Service division Iron Sights at 50 yards: fervid_dryfire: DPMS 5.56mm/.223 - Geisselle trigger- Iron sights- Fiocchi 55gr FMJ. Groups: .629/.943/.854/1.505/.671 = avg. .9204" = 1.7994 MOA ETA: Was a great day for shooting, wish I'd had time for more! 
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Posted: 8/17/2013 8:06:54 PM EST
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Okay, here we go: http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/fervid_dryfire/7532/125343/125343_original.jpg Picture of the rifle, post-range trip, because the Wife urged me to leave for lunch and I forgot to take a pic while there (next time I'm bringing MREs, or leaving her at home ):
http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/fervid_dryfire/7532/125538/125538_original.jpg Rifle is a DPMS with a 20" CMMG upper. Geisselle trigger installed. Iron sights used; the red dot is 6 MOA on a good day ( ).
Ammo used was Fiocchi 55gr FMJ. I don't expect to get to (or under) 1 MOA with this rifle as-is. Oh, well.
ETA: Was a great day for shooting, wish I'd had time for more! You might want to recheck your calcs there... You average CTC is .942, not 1.84. You doubled it. Your MOA is 1.799. If that was with irons at 50yds, you just BARELY missed being in the top five. Don't sell yourself short. That's a phenomenal target! ETA: And if you'd got that ONE group at a size comparable to the rest, you'd be damn close to the top 3. |
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Posted: 8/17/2013 8:09:47 PM EST
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You might want to recheck your calcs there... You average CTC is .942, not 1.84. You doubled it. Your MOA is 1.799. If that was with irons at 50yds, you just BARELY missed being in the top five. Don't sell yourself short. That's a phenomenal target! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Okay, here we go: http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/fervid_dryfire/7532/125343/125343_original.jpg Picture of the rifle, post-range trip, because the Wife urged me to leave for lunch and I forgot to take a pic while there (next time I'm bringing MREs, or leaving her at home ):
http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/fervid_dryfire/7532/125538/125538_original.jpg Rifle is a DPMS with a 20" CMMG upper. Geisselle trigger installed. Iron sights used; the red dot is 6 MOA on a good day ( ).
Ammo used was Fiocchi 55gr FMJ. I don't expect to get to (or under) 1 MOA with this rifle as-is. Oh, well.
ETA: Was a great day for shooting, wish I'd had time for more! You might want to recheck your calcs there... You average CTC is .942, not 1.84. You doubled it. Your MOA is 1.799. If that was with irons at 50yds, you just BARELY missed being in the top five. Don't sell yourself short. That's a phenomenal target! Thanks...but I guess that means my corrections in the edit I just did are still wrong...
ETA: Yeah, I see I forgot to divide by the MOA factor. Glad you caught that. 
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Posted: 8/17/2013 8:11:41 PM EST
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks...but I guess that means my corrections in the edit I just did are still wrong... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Okay, here we go: http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/fervid_dryfire/7532/125343/125343_original.jpg Picture of the rifle, post-range trip, because the Wife urged me to leave for lunch and I forgot to take a pic while there (next time I'm bringing MREs, or leaving her at home ):
http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/fervid_dryfire/7532/125538/125538_original.jpg Rifle is a DPMS with a 20" CMMG upper. Geisselle trigger installed. Iron sights used; the red dot is 6 MOA on a good day ( ).
Ammo used was Fiocchi 55gr FMJ. I don't expect to get to (or under) 1 MOA with this rifle as-is. Oh, well.
ETA: Was a great day for shooting, wish I'd had time for more! You might want to recheck your calcs there... You average CTC is .942, not 1.84. You doubled it. Your MOA is 1.799. If that was with irons at 50yds, you just BARELY missed being in the top five. Don't sell yourself short. That's a phenomenal target! Thanks...but I guess that means my corrections in the edit I just did are still wrong... I used OnTarget calc. They're close enough. Either way, phenomenal shooting! |
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Posted: 8/18/2013 4:58:14 PM EST
[#30]
Is this OK for a front rest?
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Posted: 8/18/2013 8:44:57 PM EST
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is this OK for a front rest? http://www.battenfeldtechnologies.com/products/photos/569230-action-1.jpg For unlimited |
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Posted: 8/18/2013 8:51:39 PM EST
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
fixed it for you. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
-snip- BuickDan/AR-15 18" SPR homebrew .223/RRA 2-stage trigger/Mueller APT 4.5-14X40/Hornady 55 gr V-max handloads Groups: .744" .864" .716" .885" 1.101" = Avg: .862"0.8231 MOA BuickDan/Savage MK II TR .22 LR/Weaver 40/44 4-12X44/CCI Blazer bulk pack Groups: .744" .864" .716" .885" 1.101" Avg: .862" 1.6463 MOA fixed it for you. Were these both shot at 50 yards from the same bench? |
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Posted: 8/18/2013 9:17:26 PM EST
[#33]
Shot this one last week. I struggled with mirage and poor trigger pull discipline that day. I had the target pinned sideways, so the hits that look high and to the left are actually low and to the left. I need more practice, with that magnification it should have been a lot better.
18" LT Stealth Vortex Viper 6.5-20 Gissele SSA trigger XM193 55gr boolets Front rest, my range bag Rear rest, a piece of 4x4 with a piece of carpet on it.  " />
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Posted: 8/19/2013 7:57:23 AM EST
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Were these both shot at 50 yards from the same bench? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
-snip- BuickDan/AR-15 18" SPR homebrew .223/RRA 2-stage trigger/Mueller APT 4.5-14X40/Hornady 55 gr V-max handloads Groups: .744" .864" .716" .885" 1.101" = Avg: .862"0.8231 MOA BuickDan/Savage MK II TR .22 LR/Weaver 40/44 4-12X44/CCI Blazer bulk pack Groups: .744" .864" .716" .885" 1.101" Avg: .862" 1.6463 MOA fixed it for you. Were these both shot at 50 yards from the same bench? I fixed the numbers for the Savage, I had copied the same set twice. The AR was at 100 yards.
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Posted: 8/19/2013 9:36:04 AM EST
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Shot this one last week. I struggled with mirage and poor trigger pull discipline that day. I had the target pinned sideways, so the hits that look high and to the left are actually low and to the left. I need more practice, with that magnification it should have been a lot better. 18" LT Stealth Vortex Viper 6.5-20 Gissele SSA trigger XM193 55gr boolets Front rest, my range bag Rear rest, a piece of 4x4 with a piece of carpet on it. http://<a href=http://i.imgur.com/14qoKqM.jpg</a>" /> Sub-moa groups with M193? Huh. Better put the results in the proper format so you can get credit for that. |
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Posted: 8/19/2013 9:44:52 AM EST
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sub-moa groups with M193? Huh. Better put the results in the proper format so you can get credit for that. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Shot this one last week. I struggled with mirage and poor trigger pull discipline that day. I had the target pinned sideways, so the hits that look high and to the left are actually low and to the left. I need more practice, with that magnification it should have been a lot better. 18" LT Stealth Vortex Viper 6.5-20 Gissele SSA trigger XM193 55gr boolets Front rest, my range bag Rear rest, a piece of 4x4 with a piece of carpet on it. Sub-moa groups with M193? Huh. Better put the results in the proper format so you can get credit for that. Indeed. |
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Posted: 8/19/2013 10:29:08 AM EST
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Shot this one last week. I struggled with mirage and poor trigger pull discipline that day. I had the target pinned sideways, so the hits that look high and to the left are actually low and to the left. I need more practice, with that magnification it should have been a lot better. 18" LT Stealth Vortex Viper 6.5-20 Gissele SSA trigger XM193 55gr boolets Front rest, my range bag Rear rest, a piece of 4x4 with a piece of carpet on it. http://<a href=http://i.imgur.com/14qoKqM.jpg</a>" /> ...AND with XM193 ammo? Pretty damned impressive. 
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Posted: 8/19/2013 10:58:04 AM EST
[#38]
Shot a couple of C&R rifles today.
M-48 Mauser, 8mm, irons, 50 yards. 
Smallest group. 
Five groups. 
Old_Painless: M-48 Mauser, 8mm, iron sights, 50 yds, handloads. Groups: .531/ 1.479/ 1.130/ 1.683/ .804/ Avg = 1.1254 = 2.149 MOA .303 Enfield, irons, 50 yards. 
Best group: 
Five groups: 
Old_Painless: .303 Enfield, irons, 50 yds, handloads. Groups: 2.455/ 1.439/ .768/ 1.063/ 1.287/ Avg= 1.4024 = 2.678 MOA Submission: Old_Painless: M-48 Mauser, 8mm, iron sights, 50 yds, handloads. Groups: .531/ 1.479/ 1.130/ 1.683/ .804/ Avg = 1.1254 = 2.149 MOA Old_Painless: .303 Enfield, irons, 50 yds, handloads. Groups: 2.455/ 1.439/ .768/ 1.063/ 1.287/ Avg= 1.4024 = 2.678 MOA |
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Posted: 8/19/2013 11:58:27 AM EST
[#39]
Thanks for all the hard work with these threads guys! Now I need to get back out and try to improve my groups.
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Posted: 8/19/2013 12:21:33 PM EST
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Shot this one last week. I struggled with mirage and poor trigger pull discipline that day. I had the target pinned sideways, so the hits that look high and to the left are actually low and to the left. I need more practice, with that magnification it should have been a lot better. 18" LT Stealth Vortex Viper 6.5-20 Gissele SSA trigger XM193 55gr boolets Front rest, my range bag Rear rest, a piece of 4x4 with a piece of carpet on it. http://<a href=http://i.imgur.com/14qoKqM.jpg</a>" /> XM193? Are you a wizard? Okay, I'm out.... It was only a matter of time. No mo' shooting for me.
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Posted: 8/19/2013 12:23:52 PM EST
[#41]
DT
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Posted: 8/19/2013 12:35:09 PM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
XM193? Are you a wizard? Okay, I'm out.... It was only a matter of time. No mo' shooting for me. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Shot this one last week. I struggled with mirage and poor trigger pull discipline that day. I had the target pinned sideways, so the hits that look high and to the left are actually low and to the left. I need more practice, with that magnification it should have been a lot better. 18" LT Stealth Vortex Viper 6.5-20 Gissele SSA trigger XM193 55gr boolets Front rest, my range bag Rear rest, a piece of 4x4 with a piece of carpet on it. http://<a href=http://i.imgur.com/14qoKqM.jpg</a>" /> XM193? Are you a wizard? Okay, I'm out.... It was only a matter of time. No mo' shooting for me. Explain? Although I think I know where you're at here. |
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Posted: 8/19/2013 12:42:11 PM EST
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Explain? Although I think I know where you're at here. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Shot this one last week. I struggled with mirage and poor trigger pull discipline that day. I had the target pinned sideways, so the hits that look high and to the left are actually low and to the left. I need more practice, with that magnification it should have been a lot better. 18" LT Stealth Vortex Viper 6.5-20 Gissele SSA trigger XM193 55gr boolets Front rest, my range bag Rear rest, a piece of 4x4 with a piece of carpet on it. http://<a href=http://i.imgur.com/14qoKqM.jpg</a>" /> XM193? Are you a wizard? Okay, I'm out.... It was only a matter of time. No mo' shooting for me. Explain? Although I think I know where you're at here. I have enough experience behind a trigger to place a large sum that the M193/XM193 load is nowhere near a 1 MOA round in any gun. I have been planning for more entries with "better" rifles, but I am not wasting the components now. I am not calling out Belisarius_33, I am not calling him a liar, and I really don't have a dog in this fight (it isn't making me money, or helping me or my family in any way). I just know what I know, which is subject to change at any given time with enough evidence. Happy shooting Arfcom, and good on you Belisarius_33, that is phenomenal with the ammo mentioned. Cheers! |
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Posted: 8/19/2013 12:48:37 PM EST
[#44]
When he says "boolets" I think he means they are reloads. I have gotten some really good groups with pulled M193 projectiles, let alone Hornady new manufactured ones.
I posted a few random groups in This Thread That was with a cheap chinese scope, without a rear bag, and before I got my Geissele trigger. |
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Posted: 8/19/2013 12:54:58 PM EST
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have enough experience behind a trigger to place a large sum that the M193/XM193 load is nowhere near a 1 MOA round in any gun. I have been planning for more entries with "better" rifles, but I am not wasting the components now. I am not calling out Belisarius_33, I am not calling him a liar, and I really don't have a dog in this fight (it isn't making me money, or helping me or my family in any way). I just know what I know, which is subject to change at any given time with enough evidence. Happy shooting Arfcom, and good on you Belisarius_33, that is phenomenal with the ammo mentioned. Cheers! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Shot this one last week. I struggled with mirage and poor trigger pull discipline that day. I had the target pinned sideways, so the hits that look high and to the left are actually low and to the left. I need more practice, with that magnification it should have been a lot better. 18" LT Stealth Vortex Viper 6.5-20 Gissele SSA trigger XM193 55gr boolets Front rest, my range bag Rear rest, a piece of 4x4 with a piece of carpet on it. http://<a href=http://i.imgur.com/14qoKqM.jpg</a>" /> XM193? Are you a wizard? Okay, I'm out.... It was only a matter of time. No mo' shooting for me. Explain? Although I think I know where you're at here. I have enough experience behind a trigger to place a large sum that the M193/XM193 load is nowhere near a 1 MOA round in any gun. I have been planning for more entries with "better" rifles, but I am not wasting the components now. I am not calling out Belisarius_33, I am not calling him a liar, and I really don't have a dog in this fight (it isn't making me money, or helping me or my family in any way). I just know what I know, which is subject to change at any given time with enough evidence. Happy shooting Arfcom, and good on you Belisarius_33, that is phenomenal with the ammo mentioned. Cheers! I look at it differently. I think he is lying and thus I'll say it up front. But he might not be. He might be speaking of a very good set of components, handloads, etc, etc. Doesn't appear that way at first blush, but...I could be wrong and would love to be wrong, but I think I am right. SKG: The system is working here. The folks here are in fact policing the entries and I think they should. Every "Postal Match " has those who shoot short, or use nonstandard targets, or disobey the rules or just flat lie, or, let's not forget....produce phenomenally out of the ordinary performance. The latter COULD be true here. If I had shot the target in-question, knowing what I know, I would expect concern to be shown by other members and I would not be insulted if they challenged me, and I would be glad to demonstrate in whatever fashion I could the reality of the performance I reported. I actually think a lot of guys would, maybe ALL knowledgeable shooters would because they would know the results posted are so off-kilter. Maybe the member in question will understand this too and not take it personally but rather be happy to demonstrate thru more epxlanation just how this could occur. |
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Posted: 8/19/2013 1:04:55 PM EST
[#46]
Let's just let it play out. I IM'd him. The use of the term "boolets" probably means they were handloads.
No point in derailing this more in the meantime. |
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Posted: 8/19/2013 1:26:41 PM EST
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Let's just let it play out. I IM'd him. The use of the term "boolets" probably means they were handloads. No point in derailing this more in the meantime. XM-193 is not 1 MOA capable. Period. But his entry is not valid anyway, as it was not properly submitted. |
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Posted: 8/19/2013 1:51:05 PM EST
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
XM-193 is not 1 MOA capable. Period. But his entry is not valid anyway, as it was not properly submitted. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Let's just let it play out. I IM'd him. The use of the term "boolets" probably means they were handloads. No point in derailing this more in the meantime. XM-193 is not 1 MOA capable. Period. But his entry is not valid anyway, as it was not properly submitted. Is it also not possible for a bullet pulled from a -193 cartridge to be 1 MOA (or better) if skillfully reloaded? 
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Posted: 8/19/2013 1:57:11 PM EST
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is it also not possible for a bullet pulled from a -193 cartridge to be 1 MOA (or better) if skillfully reloaded?
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Let's just let it play out. I IM'd him. The use of the term "boolets" probably means they were handloads. No point in derailing this more in the meantime. XM-193 is not 1 MOA capable. Period. But his entry is not valid anyway, as it was not properly submitted. Is it also not possible for a bullet pulled from a -193 cartridge to be 1 MOA (or better) if skillfully reloaded?
Yes, you just have to be lucky to pick the right 25 in a row for the challenge. |
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Posted: 8/19/2013 2:00:03 PM EST
[#50]
I have a few problems with a few of the last entries.
fervid_dryfire you never posted your distance and your rifle has an optic on it so that is where it should be placed. Take off the red dot and re shoot if that is the category you wish to be in. Buick dan posted results from the same bench, one 50 and the other 100 yards. I'm not saying he did anything wrong here but do you guys think that we should add another rule that you must post a pic of the range as well to be counted? This also goes along with the XM193 post that you guys are currently discussing. Thoughts? I'm not here to judge anyone I just didn't want this thread to die but it looks like it could turn for the worse. |
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