I just got my chest rig in and I'm slowly setting it up and seeing what I want, need and need to add to it. I really love this micro rig and I'm glad that I went with the Helikon-Tex Range Line, Training Mini Rig. Its fantastic. I also just setup my ALICE web belt to be an addition to it. What a pain in the ass it was to setup. It does have good balance for me, but I want something more modular. Something I can add pouches to without using ALICE clips. I think the Devil himself invented ALICE clips.

My load out on my web belt as of right now are two M4 mag pouches that gives me six mags total. Two handgun mag pouches and a holster for my handgun. After setting this up today it made me really want something more modern. The ALICE belt and setup is comfortable and rides on my hips well and has been proven long before me, but I can see the downsides of it too.

What would you recommend? I think I am leaning towards a duty belt of some sort, but I'm not sure what the downside of them would be verses a War/Battle belt.

What brands are good and budget friendly? I have a budget of $50-$75, maybe a tad over that.

Can I use a paddle holster with any of these belt setups? Or is the duty belt the best option for that?

What holsters would you recommend? My main carry gun is a S&W M&P 2.0 or a Glock G19. I also carry a Sig P250 once in a while.

Is a duty belt setup the closets thing to what I am using now?

I guess just educate me on these various belts. I would like to carry four extra AR mags, two extra handgun mags and my handgun. I also wouldn't mind adding a water bottle/canteen of some sort. I appreciate the help and recommendations. You guys were of great help with the micro rig questions and I am so glad I went with a micro chest rig over a rig that would put a lot of weight on me.

I am by no means an expert but from what I understand belts generally fall into one of two categories, 1st the traditional American style pistol belt, and 2nd being the UK style jungle belts with suspenders.

The American style war belt is generally a relatively light weight 1 piece or 2 piece belt used as a means to carry a pistol, a primary speed reload, and medical plus a few other things.

The UK style jungle belt is basically the entire fighting load carried on the belt including some sustainment gear and general purpose gear, the significant increase in weight is offset by a yoke/suspenders.

What you describe would maybe be somewhere closer to a jungle belt if you want 4 rifle mags and water on your belt as that will add significant weight that will need to be distributed evenly.

I would recommend browsing the below threads for some ideas on the two different styles of belts.

Jungle Belts

War Belts

Be warned these belts can get absurdly expensive and you run out of room quickly.

For your budget I would look at the ATS padded warbelt $55 and inner belt $22, the pad is open on the top and bottom so it works with most holsters and you can add suspenders later for cheap. The suspenders and large pad will better carry your potential load than a smaller belt.

ATS belts

I personally have limited experience with war belts and no experience with jungle belts so hopefully someone more knowledgeable will pop in.

This video is from a member and it covers his ATS warbelt and has some good info.

Good luck and be careful as this can be a huge money pit figuring out what you need/want and how to optimally carry it.

Sir please step away from the 1980’s

First thing figure out what style base layer you want to use for the Inner-belt.

Mil generally uses loop for the inner belt that threads through your belt loops.

LE typically uses hook inner belt.

If you want a exceptional two layer war belt check out Arbor Arms Raptor. (They also have loop belts available)


A excellent budget option is the UTG with genuine cobra buckle (comes with a padded inner belt, more like a hybrid traditional war belt.  Or it can be used with a hook inner belt)

As for holsters I typically like gun specific Safari Land or local custom kydex.

4 AR mags are going to take up a lot of real estate on a belt. Most belt setups use mag pouches that carry the magazines parallel to the belt to keep the overall width down. Carrying 4 AR mags like that is going to be almost 12” of belt space if they’re carried like that, not to mention how you’ll be able to access them depending on where they are. You can use pouches that double stack the mags but they’re going to stick out further and place more weight in a small area making it more difficult to balance your belt.



I have an Esstac 2+1 pistol-rifle Kywi on my belt, an IFAK, my holster, my multitool, a dump pouch I’ve never used, and a small miscellaneous pouch for reference. My PC has a 3 mag shingle on it and that’s it. The most I’d throw on my belt is maybe another AR mag pouch. I have a hydration carrier for water and throwing a liter Nalgene on the belt would force me to try to rebalance everything. That’s one reason why on our ALICE kit we’d have two canteens on each side to balance it out.

I’ll go back and reread your chest rig thread OP as I briefly read through it, but what’s your goal for the belt? I think you mentioned in your other thread, so when I reread it I’ll probably understand better.

Thanks for the replies everyone. I’m trying to understand these belts and mission sets with them. I’m also trying to break old habits of running everything but the kitchen sink. I do need to be lighter. I want to run this belt in conjunction with my chest rig.

Maybe this is how I should set it up, let me know your thoughts.

Two M4 pouches that hold one mag each. Or one double mag pouch.

Two pistol mags.

Handgun.

IFAK (this would be my second IFAK as I will have one in my dangler).

Tourniquet (I will have two on the outer part of my chest rig).

Dump pouch.

What would be the best option for carrying water? On my back? Waist line? I’m open to ideas and recommendations.

I almost forgot. Someone said to step away from the 80’s that cracked me up. I’m turning fifty in a couple of months and grew up in that time period. Got a lot of my ideas for gear from former Vietnam vets and guys that served into the late 80s and early 90s. So my brain is wired that way and I’m slowly undoing that.

I’ll explain my mindset with my gear. I originally had just a chest rig that I ran 6 AR mags, 3 pistol mags, IFAK, and multi tool. I was still basing my load out on a Cold War era mission set. It was doable, worked in the prone, and worked with a rucksack. I had a belt but never bothered setting it up.

When I bought my plate carrier it helped me realize I needed a multistage system, especially since in reality I’m likely going to be grabbing my belt and handgun for most things. Plus, well, weight. I can carry 57 pistol rounds and 30 rifle rounds on my belt, and another 90 on my carrier. I might eventually look into something that I can slap the shingle on my carrier on for a chest rig for times I don’t want armor. However, even if I just have my belt, if I’m knowingly going into a hot situation, I’ll have extra mags and ammo in my pack.

And like several recent threads have brought up, at some point in life you have to accept that your job isn’t to be Rambo but to be the guy that enables Rambo.

Oh boy water is my favorite topic.

Within the context of belt mounted solutions the classic canteen is still king due to its shape. You can mount 16 oz and 32 oz Nalgene bottles on a belt but its a pain as they are perfectly round. The canteen isn't the easiest to clean or the fastest to refill but its 2nd best at literally everything so if your on the fence get a couple canteens and a 3l bladder for a pack. If you have water in a pack and water on your 1st/2nd line gear generally you drink from the pack first.

Bladders simplify drinking on the move but require a little more time to detach, open, refill, and repack. Cleaning them and their drinking tubes also kind of sucks and once they are dry should be stored in a freezer. Absolutely decentralize your water as bladders can be perforated, but don't go overboard wasting a ton of space when you could replace multiple containers with a bladder.

Individual wide mouth Nalgene's are super fast to refill as you can just submerge it and move on without taking off your pack, but if you have to do 4+ bottles it may be even slower than refilling the bladder. Cleaning wide mouth Nalgene's is also super easy but they take up a significant about of shelf space, pack space, pouch space, etc. they are big.

Canteens take up less space than Nalgene's but more than empty bladders, they are harder to clean than Nalgene's due to the narrow mouth but easier than bladders, they don't refill as quickly as Nalgene's due to the narrow canteen mouth but they refill faster than bladders, and they carry far better than Nalgene's and bladders on your body. Canteens are old school but honestly still the best all around containers, no idea why we don't see more of them.

Dirty and clean water reservoirs, and water purification is also a whole other thing but I will let someone else tackle that one.

I have the Source water bottle adapter and it makes filling much easier if you don’t want to take everything off. Just swap the mouth piece for the adapter, stick under a faucet and it’ll flow in. Obviously works with water bottles as that’s what it’s designed for, but anything you can somewhat make a seal on will fill up the bladder pretty quick. Then just snap the mouthpiece back on and stow the adapter.

And don’t forget Nalgene has GI canteen-shaped bottles as well. I do agree that they are more comfortable and fit better.

The following is borne of 20 plus years of taking courses, instructing, etc. It is strictly my opinion, but, it was gained thru direct experience...


First, some questions to ask yourself:

What is your set-up going to be used for?

Where are you going to be using it?

The goal is to be a better shooter, so equip yourself to achieve that with only that is necessary...

There was a time when I felt the need to have a bunch of stuff with me when I did classes or spent time at my home range.

Now, the mission drives the gear...

If I am shooting at my home range, the hydration is in my truck bed. No need to have that additional weight on your person. If you are out shooting somewhere and are not near your support stuff, then sure, water on your person is great -- > canteen/Nalgene/hydration bladder. Pick your poison.

At a course I took some years ago, an instructor with Army SOF experience told us an interesting thing:

       Contrary to the oft heard mantra of "train as you fight," most of the time when doing simple shooting drills, the 'high speed' guys would train with simple belt set-ups.

       He compared it to a football team practicing in just helmets and shoulder pads, instead of being in full uniform.


Now, as for your specific questions:

First and foremost is a quality belt. It is the foundation to this working well. There are good companies making great belts.

Previous posters have recommended some good ones. As for me, I went with a First Spear 'Assaulter's Gun Belt.'

Holster: I recommend a simple, on-the-waistband, Kydex holster for the gun you plan on training/using the most. They are inexpensive, so you can get one and leave it on the belt.

Mag carriers: are you taking classes? Most carbine classes (1 and 2 day) require you to only have one or two spare mags on your person.

A one or two day pistol class? You should probably have at least 3 mags on your person.

After that, a GSW kit and a tourniquet. A dump pouch is nice, but not critical.


For me, I have three different setups:

1) Battlebelt/Warbelt - consisting of a belt w/pad, a kydex pistol holster, a double pistol mag pouch, a single kydex AR mag pouch (for speed reloads), two Esstac Kiwi AR mag pouches (each one with a Tactical Tailor double pistol mag pouch piggy-backed on), a tourniquet carrier w/ tourniquet, a dump pouch, and most importantly, a pouch containing a blow-out/GSW kit.

This allows me to have up to six pistol and three rifle mags on my person (more if I put some in the dump pouch). I have the extra capacity because I do instruction; I can conduct training without interruption and to have extra (AR) mags for a student, if need be.  

NOTE: 99% of my shooting/teaching/training is done solely with this rig.


2) An OSOE Micro rig w/ a Camelbak. This is used in addition to the above belt setup; this allows me to carry more mags and have some hydration on me.

This rig was mostly used doing long, 5-day, carbine courses where you had to have x number of mags on your person and not much down time for breaks.

I really don't do those kind of courses anymore (I am an old geezer), so, this rig does not get used much.


And lastly,

3) The 'Super-Alloy Combat Chassis...' --- > a full blown plate carrier w/ plates, 6 mag pouches, blow out kit, ballistic helmet, etc, etc. No warbelt is used with this. I either carry my pistol in a thigh holster, or carry it on the plate carrier itself.

This was/is reserved for those courses that required armor (shoot-house, night live fire, etc) or a potential SHTF scenario.

Outside of those situations, it does not get worn.

Really like this setup

Attached File

Two AR mags on a belt is plenty, especially if a chest rig is an added option.  Too many things on your belt are going to potentially fuck with your chest rig and movement depending on how your built and shaped.

Personally, I run two AR mags and one extra pistol mag, IFAK, Safariland retention holster for pistol.  I had a TREX holster that I like a lot.  It's fast to draw for sure.  Then my pistol came flying out during some running drills at a Fieldcraft class.  Now...retention holster.

dump pouch is a good idea.  Ditch the water idea on belt IMO, hydration pouch on back is a better option.  Too much weight on your belt-line isnt ideal.

Thanks everyone. I really appreciate the info and I have been watching a bunch of videos today on the subject.

With a battle belt how do you attach a holster? I'm not wanting to run a drop leg holster. I will if I have to but its not my first choice.

If I were to go with two handgun mags, two AR mags, IFAK and a dump pouch, can I get away with what I'm seeing called Range/Duty belt? Not the ones with Velcro on the inside of it. Or should I go with an actually battle belt that is thicker and has three rows of MOLLE?

Remember, I am going to be using this in conjunction with my chest rig. I have also ditched the idea of a canteen or water source on my belt.

I keep my belt simple and somewhat universal. Standard 2" duty belt (I really like the Specter Gear TacOps as it's stiff and inexpensive), Safariland UBL with a QLS plate for easy holster swapping, Fastmags for pistols to fit various mags (I like bullets facing front, but Esstac is another good option for a universal mag pouch), G Code Scorpion soft shell for rifle mags, and an IFAK (I run an LBT 9022 in the small of my back, adds support when sitting with a PC and not annoying without the PC). I have a Safariland 6360 or 6390 for pretty much every handgun I own, not cheap but they are nice and it keeps me using the same system for work and fun. If you're running a pistol with iron sights you can pick up used Safariland holsters on eBay for cheap and either paint or wrap them if you don't want black.

With a velcro lined belt you can attach MOLLE compatible pouches like the Esstac Kywi using Velcro OneWrap. The OneWrap grabs the lining of the belt and keeps the pouches from moving around.

I don’t really think the terms “range belt,” “duty belt,” “war belt” are defined very well if at all. You’re looking for a load bearing belt to carry ammunition and supplies. There are two main ways to wear one: a sturdy belt with buckle run through a padded and grippy outer belt that can be worn over your shirt/jacket/pants/etc. That’s what I posted a picture of above and what I use.

The other way is to run a Velcro inner belt through your pants’ belt loops and then attach a sturdy belt with buckle to it via Velcro. The Velcro and tightness of the belt keep it secure and from rotating.

Either system can do what you want, it just depends on what -you- want. The inner-outer setup is the more modern and popular setup currently and you can buy an inner padded belt to make it like the first one I described. Most belts have a modified PALS webbing on them so you can attach MOLLE compatible pouches or use One-Wrap to attach it around the belt and secure to the Velcro. Sandwiches between the belts keeps it very secure.

Either setup you can attach what you’ve stated and be fine. The main issue with chest rig/carrier and belt compatibility is making sure nothing sticks up ay high on your belt and that your rig/carrier does not sit super low. Mine interacts fine but I’ve noticed I can issues with different rucksacks.

I do believe DSG Arms has HSGI padded outer belts stills and they were being clearanced out. If you’re ex-mil/leo they do offer a discount.

@GuyKeefer I think I found the belt and Molle padding that you have on DSG Arms. I believe that is what I want. It makes more sense to me than something like a range belt. I don’t want to deal with Velcro. I think this is what I will go with.

I appreciate you explaining the belts.

How do tacos work? Do they need adjusted to fit the mags you want to run?

Also, are piggy back mag pouches a good idea or not? I’m seeing them with both m4 and handgun mags. It would take less room on the belt but not sure if it would throw the balance off.

I will be running a CAT and SOF T tourniquet on my chest rig and belt. I may run a SOF in my pocket for daily carry to replace my RATs.

Any holster recommendations for those two tourniquets?

I also forgot to ask how do I know what size I need for both the padded belt and belt? I’m a size 32” pants.

Lots to unpack here. Holsters are generally attached via a paddle or loop, as seen above. The safarliland holsters come ready to be attached, but may need some finesse based on belt and lop size. Drop legs have a use, but for you, you probably don't need one. A midlevel drop and offset is usually the standard.

The belt above is still a two-piece (inner and outer) But it has a companion piece that is velcro and padding so I can wear it as a one piece if I want to.

You don't have to ditch water on the belt, as shown above.

That belt is what I use in the woods. It is meant to be stand alone or with various sized chest rigs. The belt below is meant to be my go to war belt or home defense belt. Similar in setup, but sitll some differences.

Thanks. That is one of the TQ holsters I’ve been looking at. I need to get one for my EDC too.

Good to know you found those pouches to throw the balance off. I may skip them.

One more question on inner and outer belts. Can you wear them without running the inner belt through my pants belt loops?

I mean, yes. You can wear just and outer if you don't give a shit about the velcro wearing through fabric.... But like I said, you can get padding for most belts not that can be removed.

I would not.

I have a Wilder Tactical belt pad on my Esstac belt for use with insulating garments or without the inner belt. I would NOT use a hook Velcro outer belt without and inner belt or a pad.

I have experience with the older padded HSGI battle belt and the Blue Alpha Gear inner/outer belt combo that I currently have.

I really like my Blue Alpha Gear battle belt, because I like to wear an inner belt to hold-up my pants, but like being able to wear an outer belt that holds my "tactical" items.  With the Blue Alpha Gear battle belt I get an inner and outer belt that both work with each other not against each other with conflicting buckles.  I also like that the outer belt is locked to the inner belt via velcro and so nothing shifts or moves on me.  One of the things I like about the Blue Alpha is that I can also during the winter attach my HSGI suregrip pad to the inside and wear it around winter coats.  Finally, I liked how damn easy it was to find a belt on Blue Alpha Gear's website that I knew would fit me right since they just go by your pant sizes.  

The old school HSGI padded battle belt I no longer use. It's too damn bulky and you sweat like crazy wearing it in any temp above 60 if you're doing anything more than just being static.  It's just a lot of weight and bulk you don't need.

I'm happy with my Blue Alpha gear and I'm not going to replace it any time soon, because I don't see any belts that are like a quantum leap better right now to justify the cost.   However, if I was in the market today for a Battle Belt i would probably look at the tegris reinforced inner/outer battle belt combos to save weight.   If the Blue Alpha Gear or the newer tegris reinforced choices out there are too expensive for you I'd just sort of use them as a guide and try to get as close as you can to them. At around $75 you're probably going to be limited to something made in Asia and that comes with concerns about quality control and durability, but everyone has budgets and you've got to do what you can do with what you've got. Maybe if you look on the Equipment Exchange though you could find a Blue Alpha Gear battle belt (inner and outer) someone is trying to sell to help them offset the cost of one of those new tegris options, because some guys absolutely must have the latest and greatest stuff.

In terms of Holsters, boy, that's just a whole subjective thing that is really a trial and error deal for most guys.  I've got a box of holsters. The one I like for open "tactical" carry is the Safariland 6390 RDS, but I've had to modify with a lot of aftermarket parts to get to where I want it.  In my honest opinion, anything that would be open carry needs to have a Level 2 or 3 retention.  Just having some friction retention is NOT good for open carry.

@OlympicArmsFan

I took two photos of my fiancé’s belt. It’s very basic as it’s just for her to be able to practice her draw, reloads, and shoot steel matches with me.


This is a HSGI belt I got her from DSG. Ran about $150 and included an internal grip belt that you’ll see in the next picture. Esstac 2+1 Kywi and a kydex holster on a True North adapter. One thing with this style of belt is that you can potentially run it through a holster just like any other belt. Otherwise you’ll need to choose a way to mount it. Belts like the HSGI sure grip have cut outs in the bottom at certain areas so you can do the same thing with the inner belt but I found on mine it wasn’t in the right spot for me. The True North adapter let me attach it to the PALS webbing as well as lower it some to be comfortable. I did the same thing with her’s.


This shows you the grip pad and how her pouches attach with One Wrap. I would say if you’re just wearing normal clothes, use a Velcro inner belt on your pants. It will keep the belt from moving or rotating. My HSGI belt will twist on me if I’m rolling around. However, you can slap that grip belt on there to wear it over a coat so you have better access in those situations. You might have to adjust the belt to fit.

Stoner01 already got you on the Tacos. I’ve never used them and think the Kywis are better. However, I see lots of guys running them. I also agree with him, get rid of the RAT. Stick with the SOF-T or the CAT.

I'll just second that belt layput. Nearly identical to my wife's

Thanks. I’ll look over this post a bit more tomorrow. I like that setup.

Did you see my thread about the SOF T and CAT? I’ll be ordering a couple of them. The RATs will still be packed in my gear. I can still use them should I need it. I do agree, they are not the best, but the do work.

I did, however I’m not a huge expert on tourniquets. The most I can say is from the few I’ve messed with, the SOF-T Wide and CAT-7 are the only ones I’d buy. I’d also NEVER buy them off of Amazon unless you verify who the seller is. There are too many knock-offs on there that it’s just safer to order from some place like Rescue Essentials.

I did miss your question on sizing. I would measure where you intend to wear your belt, so pants on and a belt on, then measure over your belt. You normally have a few inches of adjustment, but this should give you a good enough measurement to get what you need. If you’re really close between two sizes, obviously go up. I think I used a random string that was long enough and just marked where they touched and then just measured it with a tape measure. Did that 3-4 times and got a good idea of what I needed.

Also, if you invest in a HSGI sure grip or similar, just go buy the widest metal yard stick at Lowes or Home Depot. It is a HUGE pain in the ass if you try to route your belt without one. The Velcro makes it nearly impossible to do, ask me how I know. The yardstick made it a minute long process to put that belt in or out.

Thanks for recommending Rescue Essentials, they sell on Amazon. I ordered a CAT from them and some other things today. I need to find a good source for Quick Clot. I think I may have to go off Amazon for that.

I use and buy ATS. I used to be stationed at Campbell and they were across the street from base. They make goodstuff.

Dark angel medical or North American rescue.

Thank you. I saw Dark Angel Medical and wasn’t sure if it was a good sight or not. I will go back there. Appreciate it.

Kerry is good people. He used to be local to me before I moved. Good customer service too.