Originally Posted By towerofpower94:


I don't think it would be too tall, just a matter of what "ride" you carry it at.  I prefer "low ride" (in holster terms) for my pouches, simply because it creates a shelf for your rucksack.  And I think it's more comfortable, overall.  But.  If you adjust the hanger system so a bit of the top rises up over the belt, then it could work.  Remember those Brit "commando" pouches for the Sten mags?  That's an extreme example, but it can be done.  

I presume this is responding to my comment that stacking 4 SVD mags, two mags high, either in the same pouch with a horizontal divider or in 2 x 2 pouches attached to the same backer. I didn't take a pic, but putting 2 SVD mags on top of the 25rd 308 PMAG, which is already a pretty tall beast in its own right, made the whole stack another 3/4" taller and about 9" tall overall, and that was before you'd add in the additional overall height from the pouch material. As I don't see being able to run 4 mags in the same pouch with a series of vertical and horizontal dividers being very user friendly from a mag drawing perspective, you'd probably want to do 2 x 2 pouches attached to the same backer (similar to the Soviet belt mounted pouch I posted earlier). It seems best to keep the SVD mags to a single pouch with 2 mags sitting next to each other with a simple divider for noise discipline. Figure four of these double mag pouches on your belt kit would give you 9 mags with one in the gun. Run a minimalist chest rig for another 6-10 mags and you're starting to lug a descent amount of relatively heavy ammo and mags for a DMR.

Originally Posted By towerofpower94:


6.5” from the heel to the top of the rear of the feedlips.

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/302703/IMG_5688_jpeg-3171846.JPG

Originally Posted By towerofpower94:


Good point. Could sneak a few more mags on the kit. Certainly not as easily accessible, but still in the kit.

Originally Posted By Diz:
I don't think it would be too tall, just a matter of what "ride" you carry it at.  I prefer "low ride" (in holster terms) for my pouches, simply because it creates a shelf for your rucksack.  And I think it's more comfortable, overall.  But.  If you adjust the hanger system so a bit of the top rises up over the belt, then it could work.  Remember those Brit "commando" pouches for the Sten mags?  That's an extreme example, but it can be done.  

That being said, I think a combination of SVD mag/20-rd 7.62 NATO would be more do-able.  

And I have an idea for an adjustable tuck tab so the top flap could accommodate both.  Look at the USGI canteen pouch.  If you make the closure system separate and removable from the flap, it does a couple of things.  You can now tuck the flap behind, and use a bungee and tuck tab arrangement (or whatever you want) to make it an open top pouch, or make the bungee adjustable so it will accommodate different height mags.  I'm doing something like this for a CF "Universal" pouch, which will take 2 x 5.56 NATO mags, or any radio up to a PRC-152.  

You guys remember the SOMAVs NSW vest?  They used elastic on a metal hook that engaged webbing "tunnels".  Imagine that system only now it sits in a tunnel in the top flap and can be removed and used on it's own.

So combining these two concepts.   The closure feature (tuck tab for me, but use anything you want) stretches to accommodate different height mags.  And the top flap is tuckable to prep a ready mag.  Maybe even multiple tuck tunnels, or whatever, to allow for the different heights, especially after one mag is used.  In other words, double or single mag height.

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/54178/20180507_152128_jpg-3171636.JPG

Here is a chest rig I did for my SF buddy.  Notice how the tuck tab is separated from the base flap.  So you can tuck the flap and just use the tab on bungee to hold in place.  These pouches would take 1-2 5.56 NATO, or up to a -152.  The utilities were cut for NV gear or what-not, but also could take a 1 qt USGI canteen, if you tucked the flap and used the tab/bungee arrangement, similar to a USGI canteen pouch, which is where the idea came from in the first place (with a tip of the hat to the SOMAVs vest).  Instead of webbing, I used a double layer of cordura, to create a "tunnel" for the bungee/tab to sit in.  As it's open on both ends, you merely pull the bungee out of the tunnel to tuck the flap.

Notice the "jump locks" v.1.  The tuck tab could also be tucked under it to secure just one mag.

Originally Posted By Diz:

You know Raf, I've always wanted to do something like that; make patterns, and even kits for guys to roll their own.

Originally Posted By mickdonaldson:
Gear Nerds - just put a bunch of UF Pro Clothing and an Eberlestock Pack in the EE, under 'Milspec Clothing and Gear'. Seems like a catch all thread and all the participants are way into gear, so hope I'm good

Originally Posted By mickdonaldson:
Gear Nerds - just put a bunch of UF Pro Clothing and an Eberlestock Pack in the EE, under 'Milspec Clothing and Gear'. Seems like a catch all thread and all the participants are way into gear, so hope I'm good

Originally Posted By joeviterbo:
https://images2.imgbox.com/ed/19/zv7XFOYJ_o.jpg

https://images2.imgbox.com/d1/3d/HsFyo3bv_o.jpg


Courtesy of a collector, since 2019 Dutch airmobile Brigade (light infantry air assault) and Marine Corps have received upgraded jungle camouflage and webbing. They already had a jungle specific camouflage but to me It Is neat to see they got a British style webbing, your basic Copy of a Commander webbing with modular ammo pouches, not unlike the dz rig. It Is cool because dutch have never used belt kits of British inspiration and they started in 2019.
This Is the rig, made in the Netherlands by One large military manufacturer, profile equipment. Doesnt look Jayjays quality, but atleast the concept Is there.

Another whole subject to discuss but as far as i know Dutch still train trench type shotgun as a combat weapon for jungle patrols. Atleast they told me they still did 10/15 years ago.

Originally Posted By Diz:
The "template" or style looks exactly like something you'd see from Marauder, and others of that tier.   Especially in the shape of the yoke, and the pouch flaps; they are almost exactly the same.  Also of note is the off-set front buckle, which I assume was on purpose.  The main questions would be if they used mil-spec (NIR) materials, and nylon bonded thread.  Then what kind of padding, and layer "next-to-skin".  

This is a good example of what's being made by the lowest bidder for small country .mil contracts. It looks like entry-level kit.  And why the lads will go to JJ's and Dixies when they get serious about their trade.  

The yoke looks like crap.  It is too wide and way too short.  It will not interface well with pack straps.  Can't quite tell the length of the base, but it appears to be around 8" or a pretty full hippo belt.  The sustainments appear to be sewn on and the mag pouches appear to be removable/molle.  So like JJ's Cmdr's or CF.  Appears to have SR buckle closure and I would assume velcro back-up.  At least on mag pouches.  Also cmdr's pouch has no side wings so your TAM gets soaked.  Oh well.

Interesting non-the-less that more countries are (re)issuing jungle kit.

Originally Posted By raf:
IDK.  Hard to tell, but depending on height/torso length of user, there appears to be sufficient vertical strapping length to accommodate most users.

What one is seeing in pix is simply how it was set up for the pix, not necessarily how an experienced user would set it up.  I certainly could be wrong.

Originally Posted By NotIssued:
Just got a buttpack from Marnsdorff yesterday.    I know he's been popping on discussing some projects he's been making.

I'll get some pics up in a bit, but for now a brief review:

It's 8 MOLLE rows wide, probably around 4" deep and 6" high.  I fit in a poncho liner and 2 full MREs with some room. He's got a skirt with drawstring under the top.  The pouch itself is coyote, he used a 3-color desert for the skirt.  Double stitched and the tape around the seams looks very clean.  I think he did 5 of these prototypes, and honestly, it's on par with things like Tactical Tailor.  Haven't gotten a chance to really put it through its paces but looking forward to it.

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/269389/20240331_161758_jpg-3176011.JPG
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/269389/20240401_203808_jpg-3176014.JPG
https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/269389/20240401_203748_jpg-3176015.JPG

Originally Posted By Diz:
Congrats Marnsdorff!

Originally Posted By FlamingDragon:
I'm very late to this thread, that jungle kit in OP is some nice kit but damn it is spendy! Are most of you's just cloning that kit with the gear you already have on hand? Because I figure I can copy that kit with the gear that I already have. I've got a full vtac kit, with cobra belt, vtac battle belt, vtac suspenders, and surplus Eagle Industries pouches. I think the vtac kit is pretty lightweight and comfortable, I've got probably about $250 into it altogether. The only piece I'm missing is the buttpack and I'm pretty sure my local army/navy has them in woodland and chocolate chip.

Originally Posted By FlamingDragon:
I'm very late to this thread, that jungle kit in OP is some nice kit but damn it is spendy! Are most of you's just cloning that kit with the gear you already have on hand? Because I figure I can copy that kit with the gear that I already have. I've got a full vtac kit, with cobra belt, vtac battle belt, vtac suspenders, and surplus Eagle Industries pouches. I think the vtac kit is pretty lightweight and comfortable, I've got probably about $250 into it altogether. The only piece I'm missing is the buttpack and I'm pretty sure my local army/navy has them in woodland and chocolate chip.

Originally Posted By marnsdorff:


Not really.  It's more nuanced than that.  

Yes, you can clone a set of belt kit up with a number of items - VTAC, ITS, etc. belt, suspenders, etc.  Most of us have dabbled with that over the years, and it works.  To a point.  I mean, it's better than a traditional set of ALICE gear, but it still lacks alot.  

The modern set of belt kit - and where Velocity Systems misses it - is that the British use a WIDE (as in tall), lightly padded belt now.  It's 8 or so, give or take depending on the rig, from top to bottom.  And the nicer ones have the rear pouch(es) / canteen pouches sewn directly to the padded belt.  

They also use a 6 (or 8) point harness, with 4 straps in the back and 2 or 4 straps in the front.  Most are 6 point, I am the oddball that prefers 8 point.  These harnesses also have a mesh covered back panel that comes down about halfway, or slightly more, down the back before splitting off into straps.

These two things GREATLY improve comfort and stability in modern belt kit.  If you set your rig up right, your rear utility pouches and your canteen pouches  (or buttpack / canteen pouches) will be at the same height and stable, producing a shelf that you can rest your pack on top of, mostly fixing the 'can't wear a pack with a waist belt' problem.  

Also, buttpacks are hard to find these days.  Especially MOLLE ones.  As in, no one makes them.  At least not quality American made ones.  I haven't even seen Chinese ones, though I'm sure they exist.  The few that ARE made in the USA have serious problems.  Velocity's buttpack is probably the best, and is at least usable.  But their fabric they use isn't very durable.  

Thus why I now make limited runs of molle buttpacks.  

If you find a good buttpack at a decent price at your local surplus store, snag it.  Seriously, they are getting dummy expensive.

Originally Posted By FlamingDragon:


Good post, that makes a lot of sense, thanks.

Originally Posted By cap6888:
Well I promised a video of my pack when I got around to it.  However I am not a great videographer/editor, so be gentle.

And as to try and keep this thread on topic, I also did a video of my homemade PLCE. And I totally forgot to point out my dump pouch which is piggy backed underneath my IFAk pouch.

So first, my PLCE.......
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSkTkQUUSHA

And my pack.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvUe9OPXimU

Originally Posted By FlamingDragon:
I'm very late to this thread, that jungle kit in OP is some nice kit but damn it is spendy! Are most of you's just cloning that kit with the gear you already have on hand? Because I figure I can copy that kit with the gear that I already have. I've got a full vtac kit, with cobra belt, vtac battle belt, vtac suspenders, and surplus Eagle Industries pouches. I think the vtac kit is pretty lightweight and comfortable, I've got probably about $250 into it altogether. The only piece I'm missing is the buttpack and I'm pretty sure my local army/navy has them in woodland and chocolate chip.

Originally Posted By lew:


I run my belt kits on HSGI Sure Grip Belts and four-point low-pro suspenders. Even with my 7.62N rig, I feel no need to switch to a wider/taller belt or more suspension points. Point being: try out what you have and run it hard. Chances are very good that you already have it figured out or it might just need some minor tweaking. Define YOUR needs before you do anything.

Instead of a singular buttpack, I went with multiple canteen/utility pouches. Yeah, it's harder to stuff a smock in one, but I can strap that on the suspenders or throw it in a pack. I appreciate the organization versus a larger pouch.

Originally Posted By lew:


I run my belt kits on HSGI Sure Grip Belts and four-point low-pro suspenders. Even with my 7.62N rig, I feel no need to switch to a wider/taller belt or more suspension points. Point being: try out what you have and run it hard. Chances are very good that you already have it figured out or it might just need some minor tweaking. Define YOUR needs before you do anything.

Instead of a singular buttpack, I went with multiple canteen/utility pouches. Yeah, it's harder to stuff a smock in one, but I can strap that on the suspenders or throw it in a pack. I appreciate the organization versus a larger pouch.

Originally Posted By cap6888:
Well I promised a video of my pack when I got around to it.  However I am not a great videographer/editor, so be gentle.

And as to try and keep this thread on topic, I also did a video of my homemade PLCE. And I totally forgot to point out my dump pouch which is piggy backed underneath my IFAk pouch.

So first, my PLCE.......
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSkTkQUUSHA

And my pack.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvUe9OPXimU

Originally Posted By FlamingDragon:



I ditched the chest rig and plate carrier from learning the hard way.

Originally Posted By marnsdorff:


Like I said, some of the guys roll their own like that    :-D  

But in the end....

https://i.imgflip.com/8lc5q6.jpg

Originally Posted By FlamingDragon:
I used to have the same belt you have, but here in FL the sure grip felt like a heated blanket. I think the vtac is better ventilated but maybe a little bit less stiffness. The vtac hsgi 4-point suspenders are okay though because they are lightweight and thin. I didn't need anything thick or heavy because of heat and sweat, they cross over in the back and I have a thin strap across the front to form an H harness for some extra support. Overall good ventilation front and back and not too much body contact.

I ditched the chest rig and plate carrier from learning the hard way.

Originally Posted By jakeL:
I am going to echo what others have already wrote: this has been a great thread.
Thanks to everyone who has contributed info and opinions.

I shoot at 2 matches per month and get along OK with a double belt, 3 pistol and 3 rifle mags and an ALS holster.
When I was in Boy Scouts we still used alot of WW2 surplus stuff, and because of my work (electrician) I am also used to "belt kit".

What has interested me for a long time is stepping up to practically carry more stuff, if the situation arises. With a 32" waist and 10 1/2" from bellybutton to top of sternum there's not alot of real estate available.

I started reading up on the jungle rig/ belt kit way back in the Lightfighter thread, and this thread has been alot easier for a civilian to understand (less military acronyms). I tried a Blue Force belt minus when they were surplusing them out. Balancing out both sides is critical and it flopped real bad with any dynamic movement. It is very comfortable with a canteen on one hip and a pouch with lunch/misc on the other side for a day hike, so not a total waste. Also glad that full flapped pouches are acceptable in this thread. There might be belly crawling thru sand or forest duff and it might be raining sometime.

For Diz: Am I too small for the Med Diz rig? and missed out on the air freighted batch, is there still a boatload coming? any ETA?

Originally Posted By raf:
A little Buttpack History

Better pix and more extensive text HERE

Current cheapest price on Ebay for USGI "Field Pack, Training" (M-81 nylon, plastic QD buckles and other hardware) is about $34 shipped.

Interfaces perfectly with the later-issued LBV or any suitable width waist belt and H-harness.  Inner edges of fabric will need to be taped/bound for best durability.

Originally Posted By raf:
I think the USGI "Training Packs" just might make useful items for subsequent modification, or outright copying, with suitable mods.

With Malice clips substituted for ancient ALICE clips, such items are suitable for most PALS platforms.  Directly sewing such items onto waistbelts is preferable, but ignores folks who cannot do that and who have different rigs.  Suggest never forgetting "legacy gear" owners.  There are dozens of them for every guy wanting to buy "new" gear.