Malice clips are ok for what they are.  They are finicky weaving them in molle/pals, but IMO they shine as a replacement for the Alice clips.  I have been able to weave them into the old Alice clip tunnels on Alice mag pouches and two quart canteen pouches with ease.  I’m sure they would do the job on butt packs.

Malice clips work great for attaching molle pouches to molle webbing - that's what they are designed to do.  They are kinda the 'gold standard' for non-sewn-in attachment straps, they've been around for over 20 years.  I've got a bunch that I still use that are that old.  Tactical Tailor makes them and that's their preferred attachment system for decades, and they are considered one of the gold standards for durable gear.  

However, while they might work for attaching non-molle pouches like the buttpack to whatever, they aren't optimal.  Molle webbing is designed to spread the stress out significantly across the attaching straps.  I'm not saying they won't work, just that they aren't optimal.  I've always just used paracord to jerry rig pouches like that to molle, or molle pouches to non-molle belts.  Velcro one-wrap is another decent option.  Or a combination of both, which I use sometimes too.

Sewing in 1" webbing lines to the buttpack would be optimal, but you would have to deal with the large alice style webbing already in place, plus sewing the webbing pieces on correctly while working inside of an open buttpack - I've sewn buttpacks directly to modern belts, the wide ones, and it's a pain getting in there with the machine and working while dealing with the bag being open around it.  I mean, it's totally doable.....But if you're going to the trouble of sewing in webbing straps for molle, why not just fab up a full belt and sew the buttpack to that?  It's a far better platform than attaching it separately.

Those surplus buttpacks are definitely modable to make use, and for some of the slimmer molle belts might even work fine.  I would do what raf said and binding tape the inside seams, or at a MINIMUM go back in and put a couple more stitch lines spaced out in there to slow down the unraveling.  I'd also eventually swap out the buckles, those old black buckles aren't great under night vision.   But that's easy enough.

If you go this route, make sure you pick the right size.  I think it's the short ones that work right with this.  It's been awhile since I ran something like that.

Thank you for the info gentlemen.

Cap6888, I like the little ruck. Very well thought out. I'm interested to see how the T&E process goes.

That is correct with the short ones. I replaced all the slide keepers on my ALICE rig with MALICE clips. Vast improvement.

The "Short" Malice clips have Two securing notches in the tab which lock into the "buckle".  They are adjustable in secured length for both ALICE and MOLLE/PALS platforms, which are slightly different.

See Long/Short comparison of Standard Malice clips HERE

The "Fight Light" Malice clips are designed to be, well, lighter.  I don't know if there is any difference in durability between Standard and Fight Light Malice clips.  Made in both lengths.

Short "Fight Light" Malice clips HERE

In keeping with belt-kit theme, found some items on Sportsman's Guide which may be of interest to some, possibly folks wanting to upgrade some "legacy" gear:

1) 3-Pack Used Brit DPM Waist Belts

2) 2-Pack MOLLE "Admin" Panel UCP, Used

3)2-Pack Used, UCP Panels for Front of Plate Carrier

Price is cheap enough, I reckon, if you need the stuff.  Does anyone know if the belt loops on the padded hip belt will accept common USGI pistol belts?

The psa 35 rd scorpion mags are also about the same length as ak/pmag 40s. I can get about 3 of them in a platatac double  ar/ak mag pouch. Suppressed sub gun for being extra sneaky.

Oh good, someone finally has British hippo belts.  That was one of the things really missing here in the USA.  These are really really good upgrades to the issued PLCE belt kits.  

Raf - they SHOULD fit USGI belts.  Note that because of the belt loop placements, they may not play nice with USGI buttpacks.  In fact, they don't play nice with the British pouches all that much either, not if you want to put all the pouches on there tight together like you are supposed to do.  Read below where I talk about stitching them down for more info on the USGI belt stuff.

I modded a full set of PLCE for one of the guys on here, he had a full set of REALLY nice condition MTP pattern PLCE - belt, harness, pad, 2 x double mag pouches, 4 x utility pouches.  He had me permanently sew the pouches and the belt to the pad - tbh, it turned out really nice.  It made everything far more stable.  Not quite as nice as the modern padded belt setup like we've been talking about, but it stopped most of the flop and made the rear shelf more stable.  

However, it was a PAIN to sew down, as it was really really hard to get the thick stack (pouch, belt, padded belt) under my presser foot and that made the stitching wander a bit.  I've threatened not to ever do it again.  I might do it again if someone really really wanted me to, but tbh, for the time I put into fighting it, you're better off getting whoever is doing it to make a custom modern belt and sew the PLCE pouches directly to that instead.

HOWEVER, if someone wanted to do this for themselves, this is totally doable, even by hand, by something like the speedy stitch tool.  If you have a set of PLCE, I really recommend you pick up a hippo pad (note that these used DPM ones are really beat up and you will want to hand pick which one you want out of the 3.  You will probably get a decent condition one out of that pack of 3, but all of them should be useable anyways.)  Adding a hippo pad, and especially sewing it down, will really help your PLCE kit ride better.

Ok, so when I sewed down that set of PLCE, I had to snip off the 2 innermost belt loops (not the CENTER one, but the 2 next to the center one.  This is for utility pouches btw, if you are running a buttpack, you will have to snip the center one) so that the pouches will fit close together.  I then sewed all the pouched together - I lined up the edges of each pouch and sewed them together so they were in a long line with a single stitch line (this was WITH them on the belt) then sewed them to the belt itself with a single stitch line, to hold the pouches in place exactly where I want them  (please be sure to double check pouch placement, it's hard to undo stuff from this point on), along those same seams.  

All of this was relatively easy.  It got complicated when I put the belt pad on, as it made it too thick to get under my presser foot without some serious manipulation.  Anyways, I sewed the TOP of each pouch all the way through the belt pad.  I put stitch lines down the same stitch lines between the pouches that I did before.  Then I sewed the bottom corners of the pouches to the pad itself, other than the rear ones where the pad isn't long enough.  I also sewed the front of the mag pouches down to the belt and belt pad too.  

This sounds complicated, but it's not really.  It's doable by hand with the speedy stitch or even by hand with a heavy canvas needle.  Because the pouches are already supported by the belt itself, the stitches really aren't load bearing stitches, and are just being used to hold everything together to stop flop from happening.  

If you want to run this with a USGI belt and buttpack, you will almost certainly need to do some sewing, as you will have to clip at least that rear center belt loop, and the pad won't be held up in the rear without some sewing.  But a few stitch lines inside the buttpack  (one in the center inside the buttpack, one on each side inside the buttpack at a minimum.  I'd probably do one across the top too.) will make it work.

Let me know if anyone has any questions about this.  I'll sew it down for someone if they really really want, but I seriously suggest that you do it for yourself.  Go buy a speedy stitch and sit down to watch a movie or listen to a podcast while you sew it up.

Nice.  I need to finish up those 40 round pmag pouches I've been working on.  I just keep getting backlogged doing custom stuff for people, most of it involving patterning and prototyping, which takes soooo long.  The 40 round pmag pouches keep getting pushed back.  

Currently working on a pattern for a ww2 german camo smock, slightly modernized.  And patterning one of the SPOSN Partizan suits.  Buddy of mine who's deployed overseas finally bugged me into doing them for him, told me to send it with the rest of his order that I already got done.  I'm eventually going to do a Gorka suit and SAS style smock too.

I would buy those belt pads, even for padding new style molle belts. They fit the alice belts with room to spare, all cinched they are sized for the Plce vest. In my opinion that fastex closure make them less adherent to the belt than the snap or velcro closure on alice belt pads. Check the sizing however.

The other molle items i Guess are difficult to use, the large flap (Is to set up the osprey body armor into the light mode, but It Is lacking t-straps with buckles) Is 8 PALs Wide and the side plate pocket holds proprietary plates. Pals spacing between US and UK items Is slightly different, items May not interchange perfectly.

Marnsdorrf, the secret to having pouches cinched Is attaching them altogether and mounting only the external ones to the belt, so a Little lateral space Is saved too. The Bungee then holds everything together.

This Is the worn Plce webbing, modified to airborne standards, i have in my reference collection.


I have to dig It out, as It shows the ingenuity of assembling It with standard parts, zip ties, tape and carabiners and not buying a bespoke One. All work was made by prior owner.

I've got a couple sets of oldschool plce here, and between those and the one I worked on, I can get them all on there tight - I had them on the belt tighter than the one in the picture you have in there.  2 of the double mag pouches, and 4 utility pouches (well, 2 utility, 2 canteen, but still)  But 2 of the hippo pad buckles ended up falling almost smack dab in the middle of pouches, which would make me either drop a utility pouch or spread them apart.

If you end up putting them all together and sewing them to the pad itself, it bypasses all that and they get alot less flop than even the ones in your picture.  

There's alot of ways of modding these though.  Different things float different people's boats.  I still say that if you are careful a set of this surplus PLCE is the best deal running for belt kit, with a few mods.  It's just hard piecing together a full set here in the USA.  Hippo pads were the really hard thing to find, and I'm glad someone has them in stock now.  I priced it out btw.  All the pieces you need to do a full set of PLCE is available online shipped from America at the moment.  You can do a full set of PLCE, with hippo pad, for $120-150 right now.

EDIT:  Yes please, get some better pictures of that set.  I'm always looking to learn more, get more ideas, etc.

Another interesting video from Carcajou Tactical about their Hybrid setup.  Seems they have some good ideas with their gear.

Looks neat, but kinda dumb, I don't see guys changing from belt to chest rig on even a semi-regular basis.

Second, the assembly for that has got to make it less stable/durable than a proper belt.

Jack of all trades, master of none.

Double tap

Well these guys are innovative to say the least.  And guys have been trying to do some kind of hybrid set up like this for a long time.  As to why you would switch back n forth.  Well one reason I've seen, but this is for specialist mountain or arctic warfare troops, is when you are switching out from a 55L to a 130L ruck.  The larger rucks sometimes require a full waist belt, which knocks out room for a belt kit.  Also ski troops sometimes have a hard time with mag pouches on the sides inferring with the ski pole motion.  So in these cases you might want to switch up to a chest rig config, which allows the big cold weather ops ruck to have a full waist belt, and remove the pouches that might interfere with skiing.  So yeah, coming from up north, this is something you might want.

But then again, it's a question of trying to make one rig do everything, vs having separate rigs for different jobs.  After goofing with all this for years, I have concluded that separate rigs is just the way to go.  But different strokes for different folks.  

Now I will say one other thing I like about a hybrid approach is something that is configurable on the fly.  For example you have a looong infil, and you have a fairly big load to get to the ORP.  Likelihood of enemy contact behind the ORP is low.  SO you opt for a big bloody rucksack, with a full waist belt.  The hybrid panels can be broken up and worn one the sides of the ruck, and even on the back.  Maybe a micro chest rig (or one panel) for chance contact.  Once you drop rucks at the ORP, you re-configure for a belt kit or chest rig for "actions in the obj area" whatever that may be.  Then return and re-configure for the exfil.  Again a niche requirement but I could see it.

The chimaera of scalability and modularity at all costa Is still around i see. I think It Will fit someone's needs and Will appeal to many.

I am sure that Is a High quality product, modular means there's a lot of hardware that could be streamlined. My only gripe is that the only way they could think of joining the 3 panels Is with straps and buckles. I think that makes for a couple of problems.
First, (splitting hairs) when loaded every single panel "bounce" independently from the other and with different weights and forces (ex. Ammunition on One side, lighter items on the other and a pack pushing down on the back pouches) may cause discomfort.
Second (that in my opinion Is the worse thing), even if there are Just two buckles joining the panels and there seems to be a small gap the reality Is that you lose a lot of real estate there, in a Place (kidney area) that One May argue Is the less intrusive most load bearing part of the waist.
That Is a problem that was found in the Israeli ephod webbing (to alleviate that they had canteen mounted to the joining straps), the lbt 1195 family, the molle H-harness presente in various kits. Subsequent iterations of those (modern ephods, the lbt ISFAS, V2 h-harness) resolved those issues by creating a contiguous belt.
I would like even some joining style like the molle FLC to avoid losing that precious space.
It also looks that that rig wears more like a tactical tailor split MAV with h h-harness, or a rudder Rac or  a DFLCS h-harness (all are good Pieces of equipment), even more like a very High Alice than a true belt rig.

Again, that Is surely a quality rig and probably well suited for hot-wet weather when confronted with other chest rigs.

I used to be a big fan of modularity.

Now I've come to realize that it comes at the expensive of more weight,, more bulk, more cost, less durability, and less structural integrity, which causes bounce, sag, uneven weight distribution, etc.

Brit "Hippo" belts received today; see post #7 above.  All fully useable, but 2 so filthy that DPM pattern mostly obscured.  One QD belt attachment partially unsewn; will hand-repair.  Length of all belts 30-1/2" end-to-end. Inside is mesh.  QD Belt "attachment" webbing will definitely accept typical USGI pistol belt, and thin belts up to 3-1/2" wide.  Impossible to read sewn-in item tags, so no idea whether or not these items are all of "standard" size/length or even if different sizes/lengths were made.

ETA: From Dixies Corner: "To get the correct size, measure your webbing from one end to the other, then select the correct size below.  The length of the hippo pads are: XS - 25", Small - 27.5", Medium - 30", Large - 32" ".  I'm assuming mine are all of the most common size, Medium.  Still makes it from hip-crest-to-hip crest (just) even on 6'3" 38" waist adult over street clothing (jeans with belt).

For the money, and if one needs such, calling it a "Win".


ETA: Ordered a second 3-pack; arrived in worn, but useable condition.  No repairs needed except the usual thread-melting, etc..

Good Points.  This is something I ran into when designing the Diz rig.  When you are designing a belt kit, I concluded that you really need a continuous waist belt.  When you have these breaks in modular designs, as Joe mentioned, not only do you lose real estate but structural integrity as well.  It just isn't as solid a structure to support the load.  I tried to do something similar but it just didn't carry well, so I ended going back to a continuous one-piece design.  Designs like this all almost entirely carried by the shoulders, which is fine if that's what you want, but I like some kind of split in the weight between waist and shoulders.    

Then you have the modern laminated, laser-cut materials.  I don't mean to keep beating on them, but I don't know how they are going to hold up to being cinched down by either a single 2" belt, or two 1" buckles.  One thing that I think you have to be careful with is when you just join flat panels with webbing, at a small juncture, whether that's a direct-sewn box "X", or laser-cut slots.  You are putting a huge strain on these joints.  Early on, in my parachute rigging career, I took many of things I was learning about parachute design and construction and applied it to LBE.  This included experimenting with chest rigs with reinforcing webbing sewn throughout.  So if you had a shoulder strap, it ran down the entire length of the rig and tied into the waist strap.  And similarly, the waist strap ran the entire length across the bottom edge.  The only breaks in the webbing were at the hardware buckles.  So the load was shared throughout the whole assembly, not just at the juncture of webbing and flat panel.  This is something that I might be circling back around to.  If something like this is going to fail, I suspect these webbing to material joints are going to be where it happens.

Not an "Expert", but I've worn some field gear with both real and "simulated" loads.   I think you are correct in believing that "balance" is essential, and such rigs are almost always more "easily" carried on User's hip and a with a slight (but user-variable) and easily accomplished adjustment/assist from the shoulder harness.   Perhaps the ability of the user to quickly and easily change the amount of weight carried by waistbelt vice shoulder harness might be worth investigating.  Backpackers are quite concerned about this; adjustment of "Load-Lifter" straps on the pack being just one example of such.  Other backpacker load "adjustments" are all the rage within that community.

At "some" point considering user-adjustability of equipment, we encounter ill-trained individuals who either not been properly instructed, or who fail to make use of decent instruction.  Y/T poster running Diz rig as a chest harness is a classic example.

At "some" point there is a distinction between the civilian who has all the time in the world to adjust and configure their kit, and the GI/Marine who is issued similar kit, and with possibly defective training.  That's part of the reason why GI kit is often "dumbed-down" from original kit proposed by mfrs.  Rest of the equation is mostly due to cost per item.

As per Hypalon items, concur that "Jury" is still "out", although such items seem initially promising.  Suggest that stitching patterns/possible reinforcements might be needed in some applications.  Time will tell.

Hypalon, to me, is kinda like modern Condor gear, which has improved over the years.  My motto is that "I trust Condor gear inversely to load carried".

Light loads, likely OK.  Heavy loads, maybe not OK.

I'm extremely curious to know how much weight we're talking about here. Ounces are pounds and so forth, but is it 2-4oz per rig or 16 oz per rig?  Are you removing all the molle webbing from the hip pad and pouches as well as removing the snaps/clips?

Benning School for Wayward Youth did not teach us anything about our gear other then the layout of the pouches. All adjustments were made after suffering. I recall my first problem. I had shortened the front shoulder straps too much and the crux of the "Y" was on the back of my neck as opposed to my back.

Yea, that's why I was happy to see these - they are a solid upgrade to the oldschool PLCE set and really make them work better.  But they weren't available in the USA - heck, even the old ALICE pads generally aren't anymore either.

I got zero schooling outside of looking at pictures.  I got my ALICE gear as a teenager in the mid 90's from the surplus store and had to figure it all out myself.  We didn't even have youtube back then.  Forums were barely around, search engines didn't really exist.

If Condor would start using decent thread - add $0.50 for each of it's big items - it wouldn't be so bad.  A few of their pieces would be viable choices for budget kit.

I think you can duplicate the learning process/training.

Next time you have some uncomfortable gear, use it all day and don't adjust it until late that night. You'll know you did it right if there's blood or blisters.

My point being that regardless of how bad it sucked, you weren't permitted to adjust it during a road march to a training area, or at the training area, on the march back, or anywhere until you're on your own time. I'd say my ALICE rig wasn't adjusted properly for almost a month. That's what started my gear whore fascination.

I'd have to pull out kit to weight it, but it is quite a bit.  

The custom, all sewn in stuff I'm doing, I am able to get rid of ALL of the molle used to attach the pouches, both on the back of the pouches and on the platform itself.  So each belt, about the size of the Diz Rig, has 3 yards of 1" nylon webbing on the platform itself, the belt itself, for mounting molle gear (if the belt is all molle mounted).  Webbing weighs ALOT compared to the fabric, and it soaks in and holds more water when wet too, than any of the fabric does.  You are going to have more than that in molle attachment webbing on the back of the pouches, 4 rows worth + they are going to be a bit longer, but let's just call it 4 more yards.  That's 7 yards of nylon webbing before you get to attaching hardware.  I'm not exactly sure how much nylon webbing weighs specifically, but I know that webbing tends to weigh more than the fabric on things like packs and such.  So this is going to be a significant savings.

So now you get to attaching hardware.  You can completely get rid of these, as they are sewn directly to the belt.  Let's consider the ubiquitous MALICE clip.  They weigh slightly less than 3/4 oz each according to the internet.  So let's call them .7 / ounce each.  If you were attaching a buttpack, 2 x water bottle pouches, and 4 x ammo pouches or equivalent, you would be using 16 x MALICE clips.  So that's 11.2 ounces you save on THAT alone.

And then you have other weight savings.  Most pouches, the back panel is thicker - 2 layers of cordura or in the case of the Diz Rig, a layer of cordura and a layer of 3" webbing.  Sewing it directly to the belt pad, you can eliminate at least a layer of Cordura (if you double up the belt fronting with Cordura, or add 3" webbing to the belt where the pouches sit) So let's say you get rid of that back layer of cordura, that's 3 or 4 ounces you save there.  

I'm guessing sewing the pouches directly to the belt will save you 1.5 to 2 pounds of weight.  And the pouches will be more stable, far less flop, transfer weight to the belt better, and be more durable than if they were mounted on MOLLE.  There is a legitimate reason why the British started sewing the utility pouches onto their belt kits.  I get the ammo pouches being MOLLE, but if you know what you are goign to run, it's worth sewing them on too.  

The budget belt kits I build and sell (pic below) save even more weight.  I take oldschool PLCE pouches (that are actually well built and totally useable - these old PLCE kits?  The pouches themselves are solid) and sewed them directly to the padded belt.  I completely ditch the heavy belt (kinda like the ALICE gear belt) and, because you are sewing the pouches to the padded belt, you can HEAVILY minimize the padding used, as those pouches aren't flopping around, beating your thighs up.  They are all solidly sewn to the belt, top and bottom so they don't flop.  I can also remove ALOT of the extra weight on the pouches themselves by removing some or all of the webbing and such on the back of the pouches.  Some of that stuff is stupid heavy.  The total weight saved is significant, in addition to, again, making everything more stable, more durable, no flop, distributes weight better, etc.



EDIT:  One of my early modded PLCE belt kits.  Still solid, but my stitching is a big messy.  Part of it is because none of the surplus pouches are the same dimensions or even straight.  I found that out as I sewed on about a hundred PLCE pouches, lol.  They vary greatly, even in the same batch and manufacturer and year.

I will straight up say that someone taking a full set of oldschool PLCE pouches and sewing them to a modern padded belt like this will make a solid, durable, completely usable set of belt kit that is 95% the capability of the higher end stuff on the market.  It's missing a few of the bells and whistles - no molle on the sides of the pouches for instance - but you can DIY for about $150 total cost.  The belt is totally doable on even a solid domestic machine.  Sewing the pouches on using a machine will require a quality industrial machine, but you CAN sew them on by hand with a speedy stitch.  Just work on it whenever you are watching a movie or something.  Or pay someone to sew them on for you.  

I'm not sure what the total weight saved on these modded PLCE belt kits, but I'm guessing you're probably dropping a pound off the weight of a regular surplus PLCE kit with a hippo pad?

So yea.  Long answer, but you are saving significant weight while making a ton of improvements, whether it's a new belt or you are retrofitting your old PLCE kit.  I'm also going to point out that a USGI style buttpack fits almost perfectly in place instead of the 2 middle utility pouches on a setup that normally has 4 rear utility pouches, like the one in the picture above.  If you are into that kind of thing.  It's totally doable to sew a buttpack onto the belt too, making those woodland  'field packs'  that are still available useful again.

Oof.  At least I got to stop and fiddle with mine while roaming the woods.  I was always making improvements - I quickly ditched the ALICE clips and used a combination of heavy duty zip ties, backed up by paracord.  I got an oldschool H harness and ran that.  Cut off the metal attachment hardware and ran 2 separate paracord loops as an attachment instead.  Stuff like that.  Even at 15 I was dabbling with modding gear.  

I never got around to rigging up or buying a belt pad for it.  I eventually 'upgraded' to a blackhawk LBV based setup in the early 2000's, then quickly from there to chest rigs.  Now I'm coming back full circle.

Wow, I had no idea it was that much weight. I guess I see it now. I didn't realize you were not using a rigid belt.

Your rigs look awesome. If I wasn't one of the poors, I'd have you do some work for me.

Old "snap-on" pads for GI Pistol belts uncommon now, and of uncertain quality.

As previously said, and although Condor gear has improved over time, I trust such foreign-made gear inversely as the weight it carries.  I also have some reservations concerning very cheaply made US gear.  For some reason, makers of some gear find it economical to use thread which does NOT meet US Mil-Spec  standards.  Surely this is "Penny-wise, and Pound foolish" on their part.

Naw, I'm not using a rigid belt.  I do have a solid 1.5" piece of webbing running all the way around the top part of the padded belt though.  Diz and I both ended up with pretty similar belt designs actually.  Some differences, especially in the padding.  That webbing strap ties everything in solidly, but doesn't add much weight.  The rest of the belt has some structure to it too - it's basically a layer of cordura on the outside, then a layer of 'stiffener interface' - think like a piece of solid corrugated cardboard.  But it's made out of polyester and won't fall apart.  Then a layer or two of polyester batting - though I'm experimenting with putting a layer of stiff foam in there instead of one of the layers of batting - then the inside layer is a layer of non-coated cordura, packcloth, or softshell fabric.  I've done all of those, pros and cons to all of them.  But they are all very similar in the end - they breath, wick sweat away, and will dry out quickly while being durable and not getting messed up like spacer foam will.  

This belt by itself has some decent structure to it.  But once you sew the pouches on, the whole thing becomes pretty rigid and it's all tied in and supports itself.  No need for a separate rigid belt like on the ALICE gear.

I've still got a few of the modded PLCE belts I'm selling.  I have 2 that have molle for the ammo pouches but with utility pouches sewn on.  And a few with the full set of pouches sewn on.  They all come with modded PLCE harnesses (Adding sternum straps and 2 extra attachment straps)  I made them to practice making belts and to help the  'poors' get into a modern set of belt kit while on a budget.  They are surprisingly affordable, not much more than what a full set of regular PLCE webbing costs to obtain.

There are still a few of the Blackhawk ones floating around, but most are black ones.  Occasionally you will see a new OD one pop up on ebay.

Yea, I really really don't get the cheaping out on thread part.  It's literally the cheapest part of the whole kit.  And one of the most important.  It just dumbfounds me.

A "buttpack" from a webbing set that has been sitting in a military shop near me since Forever. I rounder of It would be possibile to do It with a couple of Plce surplus pouches.
Soldiers are cheapskates.



Regarding the modularity discussion i think that there Is a point to having a convertibile set but It has to do with the availability of items during certain times. I am not talking about Red dawn or post apocalyptic scenarios, but like during the early parts of deployments. I should dig out some of my old items to make a point. That said, to me It doesnt really apply to a civilian in a civilized country.

Oh yea, agreed.  I'm not AGAINST modular stuff.  It has it's place, and for belt kit, I think the utility pouches sewn on, but ammo being modular is a good compromise.

And as a civilian, ANY piece of decent kit makes you ahead of the game when the Chinese paratroopers drop.

EDIT:  And that's one way to do a buttpack   :-D

Brit dudes load out.

Biggest takeaway was he used three big nails for a hasty stove. Seems to save a lot of space.

Yes grunts will surprise you with their cleverness.  They will run circles around people with college degrees, that think they are smarter, just because someone gave them a piece of paper that said so.  

An officer once said "the troops are generally ignorant and uneducated, but possess a certain animal cunning, and bear considerable watching", or something to that effect.    

That's a no shitter.

“Ignorant and uneducated, but with an instinctive, animal cunning.”

Such a succinct way to put it. There’s always been a difference between folks when it comes to intelligence and problem solving.

Say Diz, put any more thought into scaling up off the DZ rig? Ie, adding chest rigs, placards, what have you.

Also curious about the DG1 and your low-pro yoke, got any updates on those?

I have some time off so let me take a detour and a trip down Memory lane to make a point about availability and modularity/jack of all trades master of none items. Decide for yourself of there are good points for your scenarios. I am referring to italian army deployments and some of my accounts are not my direct experience nornthey reflect everyone experience.

When Iraq kicked off this was more or less what we carried. The 1998 pattern body armor (shown Is a cover i bought as a memento and filled with foam) was the mainstay armor, mated with an Ephod LBE (that Is a different model, mine was given away, but visually Is very similar). Many would be issued some kind of general purpose tac vest (the One on the left was issued circa 2005, Is a Copy of irish vest, as of 2024 is still basic issue). Good Pieces of equipment. Holster and other things strapped to the legs


Well, It turns out that Iraq was nothing like training or the balkans. Someone says Is command's fault for "backward thinking" or "fighting the last war". I think the whole thing it's so unpredictable and the logistics so slow that it's up to the lowly private to improvvise, adapt and overcome his own problems.
Armored convoy ops were common, Gear was not usable. You could go with your rig unbuckled and turned around and wear It when dismounting, but when manning the turret It was a no no.
At First shoulder bags and Fanny packs were rigged somehow (i had a older green One identical to the black One pictured, couldnt find It). You can see by yourself that It wasnt Ideal. Enter the iraqi tailors, that never sewed tac Gear but they were Always ready to earn Money. Those kind of rigs (upper right) were popular. Overpriced and quality was non existent, but design was there, It was needed and It was available.It carried a pistol on the chest, ammo, grenades, water bladder in a vehicle friendly package. You would repair It by yourself with fishing line and tape when something broke (and It did). Note, It was not as easy as someone May think to find and buy It. Later (bottom right) someone came up with a clever design for a molle placard for the armor vest, made a sketch and managed to communicate well enough with the tailor to make a non-existent quality but well designed item.
Later when  trips to the US became a thing the spec ops mout rig became a big hit as It was vehicle friendly, High quality, cheap and carried a lot in a small package, you could easily stuff a beretta in a Mag pouch.

The placard thing deserves a Pic by itself as It was Genius design.


Afghanistan in the meanwhile was setting to be the longer One. There was pushing for more modular equipment and while It was under development command reluctantly accepted for soldiers to have After market individually bought cover for the ap98 standard armor package (sometimes Sapi were put It instead of the uhwpe plates).
Enter the afghan tailors that once a week came to sell things. They were less talented than the iraqi.
The abomination on the left was what they came up with. Off spec webbing, cheap material, design that made no sense in some places. But It was needed and available. Lots were bought and used.
So...the soft insert for the ap98 Is a single piece of kevlar jointed at One shoulder inserted via a single long zip opening that runs the inside of the carrier. The zip on the afghan One broke the First Time trying to insert it, It was fixed via fishing line and scapa tape. Later an italian brand (right) came with it's own design that also had a much requested Quick release. Not refined, but not badly designed and sturdy. I still have mine, but i kept this too that was being thrown away by a friend and i show It because It has a poor quality afghan made holster ziptied to the chest, because again, needed and available.
Later in 2009 army started fielding 2009 pattern armor that Is a iotv Copy and After market items became more widely available so this problem was almost no more. Anyway as of today i come across some very poor african made pouches that some soldier on deployments in Somalia or somewhere else because they needed items right now.

First off, I LOVE oddball gear like the homemade stuff from Iraq and Afghanistan you posted.  Not that I think it's great, I just find it incredibly interesting, both the story, the entrepreneurship, and the design choices.  (I actually found a webpage somewhere, where a guy, I think he's a war correspondent,  literally runs a blog where he simply visits every bazaar, tailor shop, etc. in every war zone he goes to just to photograph and review the gear he finds there, especially the locally made stuff.  It was incredibly interesting)

I know I've been talking about sewing on kit permanently, but I do see an argument for modularity, especially on the larger side of things.  ie, I see there are two main scenarios for gear usage.  'You are going to be on foot alot'  and  'you are going to be in vehicles alot'  scenarios.  And there is obviously a middle ground where it kinda bleeds together.  Gear choices are significantly different between those two scenarios though.

I love the belt kit.  I also have solid plate carriers and chest rig setups.  They are somewhat modular in a sense - I have an option  of armor / no armor.  Belt kit or chest mounted kit.  I can mix and match those + add a warbelt if needed.

The modular bit ON THE KIT isn't as important as being able to swap around the major kit bits.  Saying this - my main big chest rig setup is a Tactical Tailor MAV.  With modular pouches.  I've been eying one of those newer Platatac Jungle chest rigs, but my current gear does it's job perfectly fine and I already have it.  

I've actually said it before on here - maybe not in this thread?  But I think the first tactical gear purchase someone should make is a basic chest rig.  I'm talking something stupid simple.  Chicom rig, heck even a condor rig if you are on a budget.  (though I prefer nicer stuff)  It is the most useful overall for the money and quickly gets you up and running to carry magazines.  A smaller chest rig like that that can carry 3 or 4 magazines will cover any home defense scenario and if you throw even a school style backpack on, let you carry basic support gear.  This is far more useful than the ever-popular warbelt (which end up being expensive) or the beltkit like we discuss on here, as that belt kit is way overkill and not the best for home defense.  I don't have my beltkit setup for home defense - I have one of those Haley micro chest rigs next to my rifle.  Holster, couple magazines, flashlight, mini-ifak, and a knife.  

It's after you cover your immediate home defense needs (from the civilian standpoint) that you should be looking at full scale 'go to war' gear.  I have said it on here that the FLC kit is currently and insane deal for the $70 they are going for.  I still say unless you have $$$$$$$, get one of those.  It covers both the vehicle and the one foot scenarios - it ain't the best, but it works.  Jack of all trades.  If you got the extra money, sure, buy the better, more specific gear.  

I'm a bit of a gear whore and it's kinda a hobby, but most people out there can't afford alot of gear.  I'd rather them have something than nothing.  I still think the belt kit is the best choice for alot of foot-based scenarios, ESPECIALLY in certain conditions / terrain.  And there are budget versions of these.  But not everyone can afford both a belt kit and a vehicle based kit.  

This has been a bit of a meandering reply, I hope it makes sense.

Not only overseas, but outside of many bases/forts here as well.  SOE, TT, Ranger Joe's, General Jacksons to name a few.  

I have always been fascinated by the jungle or cave workshops and what they manage to produce.  

We have a shipment due in on Thursday.  Should have some CF2's in there as well as some more Diz rigs.

The additional pouches and lo pro harness are just getting to the factory this month so we should see something by the summer, depending on when it gets scheduled in.  Will update as soon as possible.

What additional pouches are you guys going to come out with first?

They will probably all come out in a block.  It's good work for them in between pack orders.  Individual pouches for: 7.62 AK 30-rd; 7.62 NATO 20-rd; sustainment; Commander's pouch, with 2-way dividers; "universal" pouch, for 1-2 mag 5.56 NATO or radio, up to a 152; banger/smaller radio pouch; lo pro yoke; 2-L water bladder pouch, w/toggles to hang on Diz rig back.

You have my attention!

Interesting review of Savotta mag pouches sold by Varusteleka HERE  wherein our very own "Diz" is mentioned: REVIEW .

Not exactly cheap, but very well made:  I have some.

Varusteleka will allow notification when back in stock.  Note both STANAG and AK pouches are offered.

A general, but quite thorough "Primer" on different styles of mag pouches here: PRIMER.  Probably not much "earth-shattering" info in the "Primer", to most folks in this thread, is contained in the "Primer," but still is a single-point and well-done summation, and well worth a read, IMHO.  @Diz

Thanks for the heads up on the hip pads.

As happy as I am with my Varusteleka Särmä TST L4 Recon Smock even after ponying up $300+ after shipping,
I figure that whatever price Varusteleka is asking, the product will be worth it.

After using that smock and my DZ Rig, I have crazy respect for British Military type field gear now.