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Posted: 6/3/2006 4:25:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/7/2008 12:23:09 PM EDT by tony_k]
I took the content in the FAQ that follows along with some of the suggestions for additions and various questions and put all in a document and converted it to a PDF with all the links needed. I think we should see if Goatboy is willing to add a FAQ and perhaps the document can live here. If not, I can afford to keep it on my server...

Here is the final FAQ:
quarterbore.com/library/pdf_files/shortbarreledriflefaq.pdf

Enjoy & I will still take updates if this needs them!

––-  Original Thread Follows:  I just moved things down a notch!  ––-
Link Posted: 5/22/2006 10:12:41 PM EDT
Hi,

I'm just going to use "white-out" and send the forms back tomrrow.

Regards,

Porter_Wagoner
Link Posted: 5/22/2006 7:39:38 PM EDT
My Form 1 for an AR SBR was rejected because: "Form must specify the barrel and overall length, aproximants and estimates are unacceptable."  

I had put "<16" for barrel length and "less than 26" for overall length.

I am using a 10.5" LMT upper.  Will I still be able to put any barrel length if I put "10.5" for barrel length?  This is so ghey.

Link Posted: 5/22/2006 8:18:31 PM EDT
fq1234,


 Thank you for the info, hope to have the forms out this week.

Mike
Link Posted: 5/22/2006 8:21:50 PM EDT
Hello,

Just today I also received my Form 1 back to make a SBR.  As stated above, the reason for having the form returned was “Form must specify the barrel and overall length, approximants and estimates are unacceptable.”  I also used “less than 16 inches” for the barrel and “less than 26 inches” for  the overall length.

My goal was to switch back and forth between a 7.5” and a 14.5” upper.  The 7.5” upper would be for show and the 14.5” for a representative M4 and the range.  Any thoughts?  I’ve seen were some of the posters are saying I can do the paper work at one length and update the BATFE later.

Regards,

Porter_Wagoner
Link Posted: 5/22/2006 8:40:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By lovett:
Hello,

Just today I also received my Form 1 back to make a SBR.  As stated above, the reason for having the form returned was “Form must specify the barrel and overall length, approximants and estimates are unacceptable.”  I also used “less than 16 inches” for the barrel and “less than 26 inches” for  the overall length.

My goal was to switch back and forth between a 7.5” and a 14.5” upper.  The 7.5” upper would be for show and the 14.5” for a representative M4 and the range.  Any thoughts?  I’ve seen were some of the posters are saying I can do the paper work at one length and update the BATFE later.

Regards,

Porter_Wagoner



Well I guess I'm not the only one.  After more reading since my post, I'm going to put down 10.5" and the exact overall length with the stock closed.  I may buy another upper (14.5") and just store the lower with the 10.5" barrel when not in use.  I have the 10.5" upper on a pistol right now.

Can you use liquid paper/whiteout or does the form need to be re-done?    
Link Posted: 5/21/2006 8:20:25 PM EDT
Can the photo be any 2x2" photo, or does it need to be taken at a passport place??

Also, where do I get the citizen form??

I have everything else ready, fingerprints and form filled out.

Thanks
Link Posted: 5/21/2006 10:11:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/21/2006 10:15:02 PM EDT by fq1234]

Originally Posted By MikeDE:
Can the photo be any 2x2" photo, or does it need to be taken at a passport place??

Also, where do I get the citizen form??

I have everything else ready, fingerprints and form filled out.

Thanks



Any 2x2 should work.  I've know guys who took their own photo with a ditigal camera and attached it directly to the PDF before printing.

You can get the citizenship form directly off the ATF website.  I'll look for the address and post it here.

Here is a link to all of the forms you need in PDF so you don't have to wait for the ATF to mail them:
www.titleii.com/Forms.htm

You want the "certificate of compliance"

You can order forms directly form ATF here:
www.atf.treas.gov/dcof/index.htm
Link Posted: 5/29/2006 5:13:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/29/2006 5:31:10 PM EDT by m499]
AR-15 SBR Overall Lengths


From Colt’s website:


10.5" barrel = 29.00” Extended (28.9”)


11.5" barrel = 30.00” Extended


14.5" barrel = 33.00" Extended


16.0" barrel = 34.60” & 35.00” <----??? (not sure why the Gov't model differs, probably just an error)


Standard difference between stock collapsed and extended was +3.25”


I then brilliantly extrapolated the following:  

5.00" barrel = 23.50” Extended

7.00" barrel = 25.50” Extended

9.25" barrel = 27.75” Extended
Link Posted: 4/25/2006 5:57:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fq1234:

Originally Posted By SEAL6:
So I got a couple questions...sorry for being a newbie...the paperwork (though easy is rather confusing).
Like most everyone here building an AR SBR, going with a LW 5.56 SOC 10 1/2 upper to go with my Rock River lower.

So my questions are:

Line 4d "Model": Would I state AR15? Whatever model is on the receiver, ie AR-15, J-15, etc

Line 4h "Additional Description": I assume if there are any markings made by the manufacturer to further describe the lower... (i.e. LAR-15, 5.56mm, etc) I would put that in there right? Leave it blank

Line 4i "State why you intende to make the firearm": I put down "Personal Collection/All Legal Purpose" will this work?  That should work

Line 12: Photos: Is it alright to just tape the 2"x2" photo to this section?  Should be, I usually staple mine but I don't see a problem with taping it

Thanks




Thanks for the info FQ1234!
Link Posted: 4/24/2006 11:58:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By likemopar:

Originally Posted By GA-Dawg:
[

Likemopar...and others...

Can someone post the specific regulation that states that it must not be hidden under the handguards? I know it states that it must be placed in "a manner not susceptible to being redily obliterated, altered, or removed." But where is it stated that it cannot be hidden by hanguards or other parts?

Any help from anyone would be great...

Thanks!



Here you go.

Actual wording cut from the BATFE ruling in the link below

"conspicuous" means that all required markings
must be placed in such a manner as to be wholly unobstructed from plain
view.


Link:

www.atf.gov/firearms/rules/2002-6.pdf





Thanks Likemopar!
Link Posted: 6/1/2006 4:17:53 PM EDT
OK, this may very well sound like a truly bizarre question so bear with me here for a second. I'm moving to a non-NFA friendly state (NY) this month. I have family that lives in ME which is NFA friendly. I doubt that I would actually do this if it could be construed as "barely legal" but I'm wondering if anyone else has done this or something similar.

Would I be able to set up a corporation in ME (while being a legal resident of NY), "rent" space from my parents for a place of business (say oh $1 per month), store machinegun, SBR, SBS, supressor, etc in a safe at this location (the location of my business), and "hire" my parents as employees for a yearly salary (lets say $1 a year again).

Forget, for a minute, the practicality and costs associated with this....would you call this legal, barely legal, or illegal? ...Like I said, I doubt that I will actually be able to do this, but should something threaten my ability to own a gun like this in the future like another, more restrictive, AWB, I may consider it...if it were considered legal...at least until I can move back to ME.

I don't see anything wrong with the idea at first glance...the form 1 would be filled out with all of the information on the ME corp., with a ME address....and even though I'm a NY resident, the corp is based in ME and the gun would stay in ME....anything major that I'm missing?

So, tell me...am I ->
Link Posted: 6/1/2006 4:29:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By raysheen:
OK, this may very well sound like a truly bizarre question so bear with me here for a second. I'm moving to a non-NFA friendly state (NY) this month. I have family that lives in ME which is NFA friendly. I doubt that I would actually do this if it could be construed as "barely legal" but I'm wondering if anyone else has done this or something similar.

Would I be able to set up a corporation in ME (while being a legal resident of NY), "rent" space from my parents for a place of business (say oh $1 per month), store machinegun, SBR, SBS, supressor, etc in a safe at this location (the location of my business), and "hire" my parents as employees for a yearly salary (lets say $1 a year again).

Forget, for a minute, the practicality and costs associated with this....would you call this legal, barely legal, or illegal? ...Like I said, I doubt that I will actually be able to do this, but should something threaten my ability to own a gun like this in the future like another, more restrictive, AWB, I may consider it...if it were considered legal...at least until I can move back to ME.

I don't see anything wrong with the idea at first glance...the form 1 would be filled out with all of the information on the ME corp., with a ME address....and even though I'm a NY resident, the corp is based in ME and the gun would stay in ME....anything major that I'm missing?

So, tell me...am I ->



I do not see why you could not set up a corp, LLC or Trust in Maine for the purposes of acquiring NFA items.  I would, however, make your parents officers/managers/trustees of the corp/LLC/Trust to ensure that they could have lawful possession of the NFA items.

I acquired my SBR through a Trust and it is an easy route without going through the CLEO process.  
Link Posted: 4/22/2006 9:00:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SEAL6:
So I got a couple questions...sorry for being a newbie...the paperwork (though easy is rather confusing).
Like most everyone here building an AR SBR, going with a LW 5.56 SOC 10 1/2 upper to go with my Rock River lower.

So my questions are:

Line 4d "Model": Would I state AR15?

Line 4h "Additional Description": I assume if there are any markings made by the manufacturer to further describe the lower... (i.e. LAR-15, 5.56mm, etc) I would put that in there right?

Line 4i "State why you intende to make the firearm": I put down "Personal Collection/All Legal Purpose" will this work?

Line 12: Photos: Is it alright to just tape the 2"x2" photo to this section?

Thanks



Anyone?  Help?
Link Posted: 4/22/2006 9:51:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SEAL6:
So I got a couple questions...sorry for being a newbie...the paperwork (though easy is rather confusing).
Like most everyone here building an AR SBR, going with a LW 5.56 SOC 10 1/2 upper to go with my Rock River lower.

So my questions are:

Line 4d "Model": Would I state AR15? Whatever model is on the receiver, ie AR-15, J-15, etc

Line 4h "Additional Description": I assume if there are any markings made by the manufacturer to further describe the lower... (i.e. LAR-15, 5.56mm, etc) I would put that in there right? Leave it blank

Line 4i "State why you intende to make the firearm": I put down "Personal Collection/All Legal Purpose" will this work?  That should work

Line 12: Photos: Is it alright to just tape the 2"x2" photo to this section?  Should be, I usually staple mine but I don't see a problem with taping it

Thanks

Link Posted: 4/23/2006 12:38:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/11/2006 2:08:19 AM EDT by likemopar]
Link Posted: 4/19/2006 5:57:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By likemopar:

Originally Posted By rsilvers:


It needs to be conspicuous after the 2002 ruling letter, Conspicuous has been defined as visible in the normal handling of the weapon. Also included in the letter is size and depth requirements
Markings must be on the frame, receiver or barrel except the serial number must be on the frame or receiver.
Reasoning for ruling is availiable in the Federal Registery, just do not have the link handy.

Can I engrave the buffer tube?No

Can I engrave the barrel under the forearm?No

Can I engrave the upper? Visible on the barrel, yes

Can I engrave the bolt carrier? No
OR must it be the lower or a visible part of the barrel? Yes

Hope this helps.



Likemopar...and others...

Can someone post the specific regulation that states that it must not be hidden under the handguards? I know it states that it must be placed in "a manner not susceptible to being redily obliterated, altered, or removed." But where is it stated that it cannot be hidden by hanguards or other parts?

Any help from anyone would be great...

Thanks!
Link Posted: 4/19/2006 2:49:57 PM EDT
So I got a couple questions...sorry for being a newbie...the paperwork (though easy is rather confusing).
Like most everyone here building an AR SBR, going with a LW 5.56 SOC 10 1/2 upper to go with my Rock River lower.

So my questions are:

Line 4d "Model": Would I state AR15?

Line 4h "Additional Description": I assume if there are any markings made by the manufacturer to further describe the lower... (i.e. LAR-15, 5.56mm, etc) I would put that in there right?

Line 4i "State why you intende to make the firearm": I put down "Personal Collection/All Legal Purpose" will this work?

Line 12: Photos: Is it alright to just tape the 2"x2" photo to this section?

Thanks
Link Posted: 4/15/2006 11:33:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By K-9:
Engraved on receiver//
Do I have to put my full name - First Middle Last??
Or can I abbreviate my name - M J last?
Or can I leave out my middle name all together?



you can use abbreviations.

I used my first initial and last name

ie.

J. Smith
Link Posted: 4/15/2006 6:44:56 AM EDT
Or do what I did and buy a Colt Factory SBR.
Link Posted: 4/14/2006 6:56:03 PM EDT
Engraved on receiver//
Do I have to put my full name - First Middle Last??
Or can I abbreviate my name - M J last?
Or can I leave out my middle name all together?
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 3:58:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/10/2006 3:59:42 PM EDT by mfingar]
It needs to be conspicuous.

Most folks engrave the front of the magwell, or the underside of the trigger recess.

ETA: the barrel is OK, according to the ATF....but that would limit you to one upper assembly (unless you engraved every barrel you intend on using with that serial numbered SBR)
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 4:46:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/11/2006 2:07:22 AM EDT by likemopar]
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 5:17:54 PM EDT
What about the AR15 upper receiver? (not on the barrel but on the upper receiver).
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 7:57:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/11/2006 2:07:49 AM EDT by likemopar]
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 2:18:50 PM EDT
My SBR was just approved. I never did one before.

Can I engrave the buffer tube?

Can I engrave the barrel under the forearm?

Can I engrave the upper?

Can I engrave the bolt carrier?

OR must it be the lower or a visible part of the barrel?
Link Posted: 1/11/2004 8:54:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/7/2004 12:29:41 AM EDT by Quarterbore]
Note:  I needed to split the SBR FAQ into multiple posts as it has exceeded the 8000 character limit.  I will post the original responses below so that due credit is given for suggestions that have been incorporated....


-------------------------------------------

What is the Definition of a Short Barreled Rifle

A short barreled rifle is defined in the US Code, Title 18, Part I, Chapter, Sec. 921. as follows...


(8) The term ''short-barreled rifle'' means a rifle having one or more barrels less than sixteen inches in length and any weapon made from a rifle (whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise) if such weapon, as modified, has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches.



Also Note!  The 1994 Crime bill applies to Short Barreled Rifles the same as it would to any semiautomatic rifle.  You can see the crime bill regulations here:  quarterbore.com/library/law/crimebill.html.  If you are registering a Pre-Ban AR-15 as a Short barreled Rifle then the weapon will retain it's pre-ban status (ref p1 and ref p2) but a POST-BAN rifle must remain in compliance with the crime bill regulation.

Who can build one of these?

The first thing that you need to do is evaluate your state and local laws.  Following is a table that can be used as a reference but I can't confirm the accuracy as I am not associated with this table in any way (See:  www.full-auto.com/library_states.htm).  You can confirm your local and state laws by calling a local Law Enforcement agency in your area and ask if NFA registered Short Barreled Rifles are legal in your jurisdiction.

After you determine that the weapon is legal in your area, you then need to be eligible to own any weapon as defined in the USC here www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/922.html

How do I build one of these Short Barreled Rifles Legally?

Where forms do I need and where do I get them?

To build ANY SBR, all you need to obtain the Form 1s "Application to Make and Register a Firearm" (need 2 forms), fingerprint cards (need 2), and citizenship form (I submitted 2 but 1 may do?).  You can get the forms from the BATFE at the numbers listed here:  www.titleii.com/atfphone.htm) or use online forms at www.titleii.com.  As an expample, you can find the Form 1 at www.titleii.com and it is linked here: www.titleii.com/pdf/NewF1.pdf and citizenship form at titleii.com/pdf/5330-20.pdf.  

I use online forms for everything but the fingerprint cards.  When printing your own forms, it's best to print both sides on ONE SHEET of paper. There have been rejections lately due to 2 single sided forms being taped or glued together.
Link Posted: 1/11/2004 8:55:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/7/2004 12:29:08 AM EDT by Quarterbore]
Cont...

How do I fill out the forms?

Note:  Before proceeding, I suggest you print a copy of the Form 1 www.titleii.com/pdf/NewF1.pdf and use the Form and the directions on the last two pages of the linked form as a guide.

After you have the forms, you need to fill out the Form 1 in duplicate.  When you fill out the Form 1, YOU ARE THE APPLICANT so your proper name and address goes in BOX-3B. If you use a "PO Box" in 3B, you need to supply a proper street address in the Box 3C or specific directions to the residence must be included.  In BOX-4a, the proper MANUFACTURER info is the original maker of the existing firearm/serial # -- Bushmaster, Colt, HK, IMI, Olympic, and so forth.  Adopt the serial number as it appears on the the weapon you are using to build your SBR.  

Where it lists caliber, I would list all you may want to use (within reason i.e. 22, 9mm, 223, 300/221 as there is no real requirement currently to list all calibers as with the AR-15, that would be insane).  For "barrel length" and "overall length" on the Form 1, people have used "less than 16 inches" or "7-15 inches" to allow their SBR paperwork to allow as many options as possible.

Next, you need to get two passport photos or other 2-inch by 2-inch photographs of yourself taken within the past year (proofs, group photographs or photocopies are unacceptable).  Attach the photos to your Form 1.  If you are computer savvy you can try SBR7_11's method in the footnotes.

Last, fill out the citizenship form(s?) and you are ready to go.

My Forms are filled out, now what?

After the forms are filled out, take these to your local Chief Law Enforcement Agent (CLEO) to get a signature.  While at the CLEO's workplace, get yourself fingerprinted on FBI Form FD-258 fingerprint Cards.  

What do I sent the BATFE?

After the Form 1 is completed with passport photos attached on each copy of the form, and the Form 1 is signed by your local CLEO, and you have your completed fingerprint cards and citizenship form(s?), you are ready to send the forms and documents to the BATFE for approval.  

If state or local law requires a prior permit or license to purchase, possess, or receive NFA firearms, a copy of your permit or license must accompany the application. A check or money order for $200 shall be made payable to ATF by yourself. All signatures on both copies must be in ink. Submit fingerprints on FBI Form FD-258, in duplicate. Fingerprints must be taken by a person qualified to do so, and must be clear and classifiable. If wear or damage to your fingertips do not allow clear prints, and if the prints are taken by a law enforcement official, a statement on his or her official letterhead giving the reason why good prints are unobtainable should accompany the fingerprints.

Again see Titleii.com for more details on where to send the forms.  The approval process may take a LONG time but as long as you live in an area where it is legal to own these weapons and you do not have a criminal record or other reasons that make you ineligible to own a SBR, you will be approved.  If the application is approved, the original of the form with the cancelled stamp affixed showing approval will be returned to the applicant. Otherwise, the tax will be refunded.

What do I do after I get my approved Form 1 back?

After you obtain your approved Form 1 from the BATFE, you will then need to mark your lower.  Specific guidance for the requirements for marking your receiver can be found here www.atf.gov/pub/qtrly_bulletins/vol3_qb2001/subpartc.pdf.  The markings NEED to be visible and NOT HIDDEN according to what I have read lately (THIS IS A NEW REQUIREMENT as many people used to engrave this on the stub where the pistol grip mounts so it didn't show...) make sure you do it correctly.  As far as doing the engraving, one of the best paces to get a clean engraving is to take your lower receiver to one of the Mall engraving stores but obviously you will not want to take a complete gun and it wouldn't be wise to leave your rifle (lower) with a teenage attendent while you go shopping!

Lastly, after the lower is engraved and you have the approved Form 1 you can at long last obtain the necessary parts to build your SBR and put her together.


Updates to the posts above....

9-Jan-2004 14:30 EST Updated to include Hail Mary's suggestions

9-Jan-2003 15:00 EST Updated w/ info from www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm

10-Jan-2004 8:15 EST Updated to include link to Markings regs www.atf.gov/pub/qtrly_bulletins/vol3_qb2001/subpartc.pdf as faldoc helped me find.  Also added definition of SBR, link to state list, and provided guidance to how to determine if legal in your area and state.

10-Jan-2004 16:40 Updated to include SBR7_11 's suggestions (less the sophisticated method to get 2x2 prints on form)

11-Jan-2004 9:22 Added SBR7_11 's more sophisticated method to get 2x2 prints on form below.


If you computer savy, you can print your own pictures in the pic box.  Danbrew says that if you have a certain edition of ADOBE, you can simply remove the "Attch pic here" text, and insert the pic, and print all at once.  SBR7_11 indicates that he has printed his pics directly on the form through the following process.  He first prints a test print of the Form 1 and finds where it prints "attach pic here".  He then uses a piece of Scotch tape to cover where that text would be printed on a fresh piece of paper and print your forms.  After printing, peel off the scotch tape with the words on it to have a clean photograph box. Set up your computer to print color pictures in the proper location.  SBR7_11 indicates "I have a 2x2 pic that I inserted into "WORD", located it, saved it to disc. I can simply put the form into the printer, and print my pic from the disc, ATF accepted it."

Link Posted: 1/11/2004 8:56:21 AM EDT
Reserved in case this thread get's any bigger!
Link Posted: 1/11/2004 8:59:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/6/2004 9:26:23 AM EDT by Quarterbore]
Suggestions and updates as provided in original thread...


Originally Posted By Hail Mary:

...and the form 1 is approved by your local CLEO...


I would rephrase this as "and the form 1 is signed by your local CLEO".  Their is no need for CLEO approval and the word "approved" may mislead the applicant into believing the form 1 is "approved".

When printing your own forms, it's best to print both sides on ONE SHEET of paper.  There has been rejections lately due to 2 single sided forms being taped or glued together.

The marking requirements are min height 3/32, min depth .005 and it's listed on the ATF web site somewhere.  The "not hidden" markings is a requirement now.

For "barrel length" and "overall length" on the F1, people have used "less than xx inches" or "7-15 inches".





Originally Posted By faldoc:
SBR maker markings required:
Name, City, State.
Use the same serial number as originally on the gun.
Here is relevant info:

   (2) By engraving, casting, stamping (impressing), or otherwise
conspicuously placing or causing to be engraved, cast, stamped
(impressed), or placed on the frame, receiver, or barrel thereof certain
additional information. This information must be placed in a manner not
susceptible of being readily obliterated, altered or removed. For
firearms manufactured, imported, or made on and after January 30, 2002,
the engraving, casting, or stamping (impressing) of this information
must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch. The additional information
includes:
   (i) The model, if such designation has been made;
   (ii) The caliber or gauge;
   (iii) Your name (or recognized abbreviation) and also, when
applicable, the name of the foreign manufacturer or maker;
   (iv) In the case of a domestically made firearm, the city and State
(or recognized abbreviation thereof) where you as the manufacturer
maintain your place of business, or where you, as the maker, made the
firearm; and

[[Page 1219]]

   (v) In the case of an imported firearm, the name of the country in
which it was manufactured and the city and State (or recognized
abbreviation thereof) where you as the importer maintain your place of
business. For additional requirements relating to imported firearms, see
Customs regulations at 19 CFR part 134.
   (b) The depth of all markings required by this section will be
measured from the flat surface of the metal and not the peaks or ridges.
The height of serial numbers required by paragraph (a)(1) of this
section will be measured as the distance between the latitudinal ends of
the character impression bottoms (bases).




Originally Posted By SBR7_11:

Originally Posted By Quarterbore:
I have this question come to me in E-mail every so often so this is obviously something people want to know.  Can everybody take a look at this process as I have outlined below and advise if I missed anything or I have any errors....

----------------------------------------------------

What is the Definition of a Short Barreled Rifle

A short barreled rifle is defined in the US Code, Title 18, Part I, Chapter, Sec. 921. as follows...


(8) The term ''short-barreled rifle'' means a rifle having one or more barrels less than sixteen inches in length and any weapon made from a rifle (whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise) if such weapon, as modified, has an overall length of less than twenty-six inches.



ADD:---   Must be compliant with current AW laws-- Pre-ban = short Pre-ban, Post-Ban = short Post-Ban.


How do I build one of these Short Barreled Rifles Legally?




 When you fill out the Form 1, YOU ARE THE MANUFACTURER--APPLICANT so your name and address goes in that box.


You do not specify the box #, but the applicants' proper name and address goes in BOX-3B. If you use a "PO Box" in 3B, you need to supply a proper street address in the Box 3C.  

In BOX-4a>>>>>> the proper MANUFACTURE info is the original maker of the existing firearm/serial # -- Bushmaster, Colt, HK, IMI, Olympic, and so forth. Adopt the serial # as it appears on the existing firearm.




Next, you need to get two passport photos or other 2-inch by 2-inch photograph of yourself taken within the past year (proofs, group photographs or photocopies are unacceptable).


If you computer savy, you can print your pics in the pic box.. do a test print of the initial form, find where it prints "attach pic here",  I use a piece of Scotch tape to cover that line, print your forms, then peel of the wording printed on the tape, and have a clean white box. Set up for pics, shove forms through printer again and print the pic.

 




Originally Posted By SBR7_11:
Danbrew says that if you have a certain edition of ADOBE, you can simply remove the "Attch pic here" text, and insert the pic, and print all at once --- I do not have that.

The last 2 Form-4's I did, I had the dealer "tape" the line, print the forms.  I have a 2x2 pic that I inserted into "WORD", located it, saved it to disc.  I can simply put the form into the printer, and print my pic from the disc, ATF accepted it.

Link Posted: 1/30/2004 12:53:43 PM EDT
Can you do an SBR via the Corporate route?
Link Posted: 1/30/2004 1:10:55 PM EDT
Yes, you can consider a Corp to be a person and to my knowledge a Corp can do anything an individual can.  Ownership of Ms, AOWs, and SBRs included.
Link Posted: 1/30/2004 3:04:03 PM EDT
What do I do with my approved Form 1 and stamp? Make copies and keep the original in the safe? Or do I have to keep the original with the weapon? Neither?
Link Posted: 1/30/2004 10:17:15 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AZ-K9:
... Make copies and keep the original in the safe?  ...
View Quote



 Yes.  I also laminated the originals.
Link Posted: 2/2/2004 12:18:46 AM EDT
is there any rules on how soon you have to build the SBR after approval, or can i let it sit till AWBsunset ?
Link Posted: 2/2/2004 8:24:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/6/2004 9:38:31 AM EDT by Quarterbore]

Originally Posted By AZ-K9:
What do I do with my approved Form 1 and stamp? Make copies and keep the original in the safe? Or do I have to keep the original with the weapon? Neither?



I would treat the approved form 1 like the deed to your house.  I keep mine locked up in a safety deposit box and I don't laminate my originals.

Now, you do need to have proof that the weapon is in your name so I carry 2-sided photocopies that I reduce 50%.  These I laminate and keep anywhere I may have the weapon including my range bag, carry case, truck, etc.  I also keep a full-sized copy in the truck just in case somebody wants to cause a stink about my mini Form 4s.

Now, as far as when to build, there is no law that says your SBR has to be in a SBR configuration so you could register your post-ban as a SBR and waite for the Crime Bill to die to replace the upper with a properly equipped SBR upper.
Link Posted: 2/2/2004 10:28:42 AM EDT
that's what i was intending to do thanks QB
Link Posted: 2/20/2004 9:32:36 AM EDT
Can the marking of the lower be done inside the mag well?
Link Posted: 3/3/2004 12:10:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/5/2004 7:41:11 PM EDT by jnewt]
Form one is filled out, signed off, finger prints and pics taken, all in duplicate. Just gota drop that check in the package and away it goes... Whats the average wait? 6 months?
Link Posted: 3/13/2004 9:36:49 PM EDT
[b]The approval process may take a LONG time but as long as you live in an area where it is legal to own these weapons and you do not have a criminal record or other reasons that make you ineligible to own a SBR, you will be approved[/b]

Would this be a "must issue" type situation, provided you meet all applicable requirements, or can a CLEO you've butted heads with in the past simply tell you to get lost?
Link Posted: 3/13/2004 9:48:43 PM EDT
The CLEO can be a problem when it comes to getting the signature. If that happes there are other people that can sign such as the local DA, Judge, Sherif, etc.  You can also form a Corporation (which I did) and then you don't need CLEO signatures.

Now, once it goes to the BATFE for approval, as long as you can leagally own one, you have kept a clean record, and you filled out the paperwork correct...  yea, it's a done deal!
Link Posted: 3/14/2004 7:04:27 PM EDT
The corporation route, is it easier?
Link Posted: 3/14/2004 7:24:56 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Lumpy_3:
The corporation route, is it easier?
View Quote


Well, you have the initial effort and expense of setting up a corporation, and you may have annual paperwork/state fees/taxes or tax forms, depending on your state and the way you set up the corp.

However, once you have the corporation, it's much easier dealing with BATF(E) requirements:
--No CLEO signoff needed.
--No fingerprint cards needed.
--No photos needed.

In addition to saving the time and effort to get the above, my corporate transfers usually take two to three weeks from pending to approved. The longest only took a month; the shortest, nine days.

So I would say yes, the corporation route is easier and faster.
Link Posted: 3/26/2004 4:28:50 PM EDT
Quarterbore, i am confused about this process. First, there are two forms that have to be send in and only one will be return with the tax stamp if being approved right? Also for the citizenship form, what is it? and how to obtain this (sorry, i am slow on this matter). If the local PD doesn't do finger print, where can i get it done? I just send my sheriff an email last night asking him to sign for my NFA forms and he told me to get all the paper work done then call before stopping by his office. So yeah...i am gathering all info and do it right for once.
Link Posted: 3/26/2004 4:38:03 PM EDT
is there any legal way to sbr in michigan?
Link Posted: 3/26/2004 5:53:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/6/2004 9:40:14 AM EDT by Quarterbore]

Originally Posted By tth110:
Quarterbore, i am confused about this process. First, there are two forms that have to be send in and only one will be return with the tax stamp if being approved right? Correct, I believe the BAFTE files the second copy Also for the citizenship form, what is it? and how to obtain this (sorry, i am slow on this matter). I added a link above now but the form is at Tittleii.com as linked If the local PD doesn't do finger print, where can i get it done?Perhaps your local sherif's office



Good Luck!  My local CLEO never returned my calls so I went the corp route and it is much easier as far a the whole fingerprint and signature issue.
Link Posted: 4/6/2004 3:44:10 AM EDT
Quaterbore, can you give a quick rundown of the legal situatio for owning an SBR/s and AR15/s.  There is some sort of problem w/ "constructive" isn't there?
Link Posted: 4/6/2004 8:10:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/6/2004 9:38:08 AM EDT by Quarterbore]

Originally Posted By rightwingnut:
Quaterbore, can you give a quick rundown of the legal situatio for owning an SBR/s and AR15/s.  There is some sort of problem w/ "constructive" isn't there?



I replied by starting a new thread as that is off topic...  please see ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=6&t=237729.  I did this as that is a topic that is likely to cause arguments!
Link Posted: 4/6/2004 10:35:54 PM EDT
Thanks QB
Link Posted: 4/15/2004 11:57:36 AM EDT
QB:

Could you include information on how you check the status of your Form 1 (ie phone # for NFA branch and any info you need to have on-hand such as serial no, etc)?  My check posted on 3/13, and I'd like to find out if I'm "pending" yet.

Thanks!

Link Posted: 4/24/2004 5:19:28 PM EDT
Today I filled out my form 1 and citizenship paper, had my mugshot taken (x2), and initiated process to get my CLEO signature.

This ball is ROLLING!!!!!
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