UPDATE:
So my bud cloned my can, BUT, we did a different stack based on my experience and it is BETTER than mine. It is BETTER than the Omega.  No kidding. 556 of different barrel lengths from 11.5-16", 12.5" 6.8, 16" 308s and 300 blk supers and subs with one small caveat.  On the 300 subs, it is a little FRP (small) then all subsequent shots are mouse farts. We were so jacked up moving cans around between different rifles, we didn't think of filming until we were in the truck...

Our collective conclusion was the closest commerical can it sounded like was the SpecWar 762, which is a 9" can vs the 7" Mav build. Beyond impressed.

Also cool, was the performance of a DM 6.3" with 6 totality 60's that I did a single clip scoop on (my first Form 1 doing this clip style) and it stomped my exact can but with 6 RSC's.... so today was a good day.

Here is the magic 7" Maverick stack:
.675
step cone
.625
step cone
.5
step cone
.5
step cone
.5
step cone
.375
step cone
.375
step cone
.250
end cap

Do this and you will be happy.

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I began my journey into the Form 1 hobby, like many of you I’m sure, after I got fed up with Form 4 wait times. I have officially been diagnosed with NFAids, having more than 2 dozed stamps now. Lots of cans. I love suppressors; I have spent countless hours over the years studying everything suppressor related I can find. Form 1 quickly became an obsession.

When it comes to NFA items, I consider them a lifetime investment, therefore I seek out the best, with cost being very low on the list of considerations. Seeking out “the best” I started building cans with DM tubes and Totality internals. That then expanded into using SPC and Rusty’s RSC’s (when he still sold them). Being the perfectionist I am, I was never satisfied with the quality of the components other than Totality’s products. DM tubes are poorly machined and love to get cones and spacers stuck, DM and SPC end caps come loose and applying the rules of “the tutorial”, the performance of the cans while acceptable, was not overly impressive to me. However, because these components were considered the best, I just accepted it all as “the way it is” in Form 1.

Then Maverick Precision came along. I bought a 7” tube, and finally I was impressed with something. I am not alone in this assessment, as the quality of their tubes has been posted throughout the Form 1 mediums. I then bought three more tubes. Then a couple of their first style step cones, then end caps, then their newest style step cones.

My first build used a 7” Mav tube, a mix of 3 first gen step cones, and 2 Totality 60d cones, and SPC end cap… mostly because at that time, that is all I had to work with. I was completely unsure how to implement the step cones in the design, but based on the few step baffle designs that are out there, I concluded that the steps need large spacing to work well. So I took a chance and built a can.

My Form 1 build achievement metric, my Holy Grail if you will, has always been to equal the performance of the SiCo Omega. To me the Omega basically falls in the sweet spot regarding form factor and performance, sounding great on all my different AR calibers (including wildcats). I always told myself, if I can achieve that level of performance, I have succeeded.

My first Maverick build, with the step cone and 60d combo stack, sounded great on my AR10’s. Really great. Omega great. But, its performance on smaller calibers wasn’t there…I think the spacing I used is just too large. So that brings me to my latest build that I shot today.

The new build is:

7” x 1.625” Maverick Talon tube.

Maverick End Cap.

6 Maverick new style step cones (one 17-4 H900, five Gr5 Ti)

Q Plan B

17oz complete with mount

This build was not cheap. But again, I don’t care, I have to live with this can the rest of my life.

I applied all the suppressor lessons I have learned in study, use and building to this design. I played with spacing for a couple of hours until I put together a combo that seemed logical and just “felt” right. Here is the stack:

.675” off the integral blast chamber step

17-4 cone

.75”

Ti cone

.625”

Ti cone

.625”

Ti cone

.5”

Ti cone

.5”

Ti cone

.25” spacer

All .375" bore

The stack is slightly long, as in 0.035”, so after I shoot it a couple more times to know everything has settled I will sand a spacer a bit.

I have achieved my Holy Grail. I have built my Omega. This can sounded outstanding across all my AR’s, from SBR’s to 308’s. It literally sounds identical to the Omega. Literally identical. I am beyond satisfied.







VIDEO DISCLAIMER:  There were only two of us shooting, so to get a side by side can comparison on camera, we had to do the stupid one rifle in each hand Hollywood style... we were at a private range, with a large berm, followed by a 100+ ft tall cliff, then miles of desert in front of us.  It was totally safe.  If you listen you can hear the bullets smacking the dirt berm.

Mav build on one rifle, SiCo Omega on the other.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzL50l4MYNA&feature=youtu.be&app=desktop

That looks really nice and as far as videos go sounded identical.

I think the big plus to that set of build components is not having to mess with a separate clipping operation.

With a Cherry Bomb muzzle device you could probably get away with all titanium cones but probably not noticeable weight-wise and more expensive.

Did you notice any first round pop?

How do you like those grip serrations maverick put on there? I saw the option on their website and was wondering how effective/useful they would be.

Zero first round pop.

ETA: not having to do dremel/file clip song and dance like other cones is seriously worth it. I would pay twice as much as they are to not have to do that, I hate that part of can building more than anything.

Totally worth it in my opinion. It’s nice having them because the taper lock on the end cap is no joke.... and they makes the tube look more suppressor like which I like.

That thing sounded sweet, congrats. I went on the Maverick page and saw the cones you mentioned. If someone was to "plagiarize" your build , mind saying if you ordered with or without weeping holes and how many if so?

With weep holes:

Finished cone. Takes less than 5 minutes from start to finish.

Attached File


I used 6 cones as laid out in the description

Thank you

Thanks for sharing!

Still waiting on my Stamps- and my cones....

Do you think one of their stainless step cones would work in a 1.625 DM tube? I think all of my internals are titanium and I'd like a stainless blast baffle.

Should work just fine if your DM tube is bored correctly. If not a little sanding at the cone rim usually removes enough to slide past slight interference fit issues.

The other fit issue is blast chamber spacing. Depending on your mount and muzzle device the depth of the new cone could be long enough to create fit issues. If it’s for a direct thread setup that won’t matter.

Thank you, I'll probably do some measuring. I have my stamp and engraved tube but haven't drilled any holes yet.

I would suggest using a caliper hone to hone the inside of the DM tube to smooth out the machining marks the mitigate the risk of cones and spacers getting stuck. That’s what I did to mine to help.

Might have missed it but how much total cost?

Not cheap. This one was around 700. But I paid for lots of extras: grip flutes, cerakoting, engraving and anodizing.

But the way I look at it is I have paid more than that for most of my commercial rifle cans and this can is light, sounds as good as my Omegas (I have two) and I waited 2 weeks for the stamp... plus it was fun and I’m proud of it.

The can is 17oz with the Plan B; 14.4oz  with no adapter.

ETA: the pics don’t do it justice. The end cap and grip flutes are anodized a light bronze color. It looks kick ass in real life, like a metal shade of FDE kind of.

Attached File


Here’s a pic in sunlight

In case any one is going to use a Hansohn Brothers DT Mount, on a friend’s build he had to face off twenty to thirty thou off the leading edge of the mount threads to get it to thread in deeply enough to shoulder up tightly to the Maverick tube.

Haven’t seen this issue with DM titanium taper mount for ASR, Plan B, Plan A, Silencerco, or Howard’s direct thread parts fitting tightly into the mount end of the Maverick tube.

It was easier to modify the male threaded part than try to create relief inside the tube.  He used a lathe, but you could probably get by with careful use of a belt sander and if you went too far, clean up with a thread file.

The Hansohn DT Mount worked fine with Silencerco Hybrid and Omega, and should be fine with Vox since it looks like the EA made part.

@stre-tch

I can't speak for chewbacca, but I just finished my build. 6" tube, 2 x Mav SS stepped cones, 5 x SPC Ti cones, SPC end cap and it was right at $400 (without the mount). $550 if you include the ASR mount and engraving.

You'll be hard pressed to find a commercial Ti can for $550. It's built like a tank too.

Sweet, thanks.

How does yours sound?

Thinking for a 16" 308 bolt gun

double tap

I'm looking really hard at this, and thinking of doing this method for a 300BO/9mm shorter can (300BO griffin Plan A, and 3 lug for 9mm).

What are the advantages to the stepped cones vs RSC?

How does the 6" sound? Can you tell me what spacing you used? I'm confused on the spacing.

If I were to do the 7" tube for this, What would be good spacing?

If I copy this build, and use a .375 bore (.020 over) Would that be safe to use on 9mm?

Hard to say on baffle type comparisons without a meter and otherwise identical cans, both expensive endeavors.

You want a bore at least 50-60 thou over Caliber, so a minimum of 0.406” for 9mm.  If you give a little thought to spacers you can try some different re-arrangements.  Evenly divided spacing works in shorter tubes, longer tubes lets you progressive space such as 0.75”, 0.625”, 0.5, 0.5, and so on as short as 0.375” for cones that stack that tight.

Are the step cones better than the RSC type?

Unless somebody builds 2 identical cans with one step-cone and one RSC, spaced and clipped the same, and tested with a meter, it’s hard to say which is better for a particular design layout.

Step cones are intended to increase turbulence, but they do it in an area of the can that is already outside the laminar central flow.  They do that at the cost of weight and expense.

RSCs make nice flatter, less intruding blast baffles. The blast chamber is already turbulent and many designs work well with very flat blast baffles.

The great benefit to Maverick cones is saved fabrication time in clipping. That’s a pretty good trade for a little more weight and money. Plus they are already heat treated.

For short suppressors, or if you don’t want to add spacers after built-in wall blast chamber spacing I prefer RSCs or short radials, because they are easy to design layout for and sound good enough.

An all RSC suppressor in an average length tube is tolerant of loose fabrication, clipping alignment, and in light materials has low impact shift and decent tone.  In shorter cans with tight spaced baffles and tighter bores and tolerances single clipped radials or 60 degree cones work well.

A lot has to do with what tools and fabrication techniques you have available. I wouldn’t worry about best as much as what you can get supplies for and get working.  Best is even hard to compare across commercial cans let alone DIY builds.

Lots of good info here.

Kalman you're a wealth of knowledge man.

I really don't know what to do. I want a 6-7 inch can for 9mm and 300bo. I don't have much, dremel, drill press, brain, ham fists.

I’m in almost the exact same spot as you. Tools and all. I have a hybrid that I use for 9mm subguns and am fine with its size. It’s around 1.6 inch diameter and like 7.8 inches long. I just want whatever design I end up building to be quiet and last. I don’t have unlimited funds for trial and error.

If you go with a 6” Maverick tube you can probably fit six stainless RSC cones from SPC and use a clipping jig from number40fan.  That’s about $275 worth of parts if you have Maverick engrave your maker info.  I recommend engraving over the thicker blast chamber.  Use 6.5” on your Form 1 since the mount and front cap will add a little length. No need for a model unless you want some custom name. Caliber equals 9mm, bored at least 0.406” with a 13/32 drill (buy a cobalt stub drill or step drill online).  That works fine for .30 too.  Pick a serial number.

If you set your blast baffle on Maverick’s built in blast spacer  lip you’ll need 6 spacers, one after each cone.  Here’s some rough math. 4” tube above blast spacer minus 0.44” for front cap equals 3.56”.  Six RSC take up 6x0.1” equals 0.6”. That leaves 3.56- 0.6” for spacers equals 2.96”.  Six even spacers would be 0.493”.  So buy six half inch spacers from DM and their rimless front cap and there is no trimming. The front cap will sit forty thou proud or about 1mm.  It will look fine.

I’d recommend DM’s fixture block if you can’t get number40fan’s clipping guides. It’s useful for holding front cap.  You’ll want a drill vice and cutting fluid. A smaller 1/8” or 1/4” drill to start or step drill helps keep holes centered.  You’d still need a mount but the low height RSC should leave room for QD muzzle devices. Mounts could be a Hansohn direct thread cap, or any aftermarket mount for Omega/Hybrid/Vox/Nomad etc.  For 9mm or 300BO I wouldn’t even worry about heat treating.  You can rotate your baffles for even wear. Don’t drill your front cap until you’ve practiced on a few baffles.

The Form 1 forum has advice on the dual Hybrid clip the RSC style cone from Super Precision Concepts was designed for.

I’d guess this is about $425 for parts not including drill bits and any finishing like cerakote.  This starts to make a Rex Silentium MG7 look pretty good except for the Form 4 wait time.

Arfcom needs a "like" button.

I have a question and I apologize if it is a stupid one.  I have been kicking around the idea of filing a form 1 and trying my hand at this, but how do you affix the cones to the inside of the tube?  OP the can looks incredible btw.

So per the OPs build, you would use a titanium spacer (piece of tube with od same as id of main tube) of .675, .625, .5 etc to space the cones?

I think I want to look real hard at this for a short 30 cal build with 556 backup capability.

Primary use would be a short 30 cal for 300bo, maybe fba that never moves off that gun.

@chewbacca

just looking for some clarification here

so the tube has an integral blast chamber step and you had a .675" spacer that sat on top of that, then the 17-4 cone, etc?

That’s correct. That leaves a large blast chamber. Great for rifle, not great for 300 subs. So if that’s your intent, set your stack up differently.

But what about a dedicated 300 bo can?

My defense ammo is super.

I would do more cones with tighter spacing. .5” off the step, down to .375 next for the rest until the last cone, .5 spacer to end cap.

This is a build I have planned... and in a 9”. I’m calling it the “BBC”... Big Black.. Can.

Goal is to be quieter than my SpecWar 762 with 300blk subs out of my 8” SBR, but with the same basic form factor and much less weight. I will be using Ti for the whole stack.

Awesome info and build!

I'm new to this as well, I just ordered the 22lr solvent trap kit from QuietBore. Their kit comes with a jig to drill into the baffles once my f1 is approved. That one seems pretty straight forward. Buy kit, wait for approval, drill holes. Yours seems a lot more advanced. What are the steps to putting yours together? Could you do a drawing of what the internals look like?

This is a 9mm design I just ordered the parts for.

Attached File


It’s a 1.375 inch tube using parts from SPC and Rusty. I bought some guides to help clip the baffles and holders to help keep them in place while drilling from number40fan. The “storage dividers” that will become baffles once my F1 is approved have a .10 lip and I think it’s they’re .520 overall thickness. Anyway, you figure out how long the cone is that you want to use and make spacers to go between them. The baffle spacing all depends on what round you plan to shoot. Days of reading there. There are two form 1 suppressor forums that you need to check out if you’re going down this rabbit hole. Most of the people from them are here too but are more active over there. Hope I answered your question to some degree. I’m still learning as I go.

That's great. Thank you for the follow up. What are the other forums?

http://form1suppressor.boards.net
And
form1suppressors.com

Bump for update in the OP

That’s awesome that you found a better combination with your buddies can. I may have to copy that setup on my next one. Shouldn’t be hard to rearrange yours....

So I’m hearing an additional step cone, for 7 total, spaced a little tighter was audibly better?  Same DHC cloistering with 0.375” bore?

How did the 6.3” x 1.5” ASR tube with six single clipped 60-degree cones compare to the longer, fatter 7” builds?

Exactly. Audibly better. By everyone's ears. We had guys stand on both sides and behind of the shooters shooting different rifle/can combos; form 1 builds on one host and whatever commercial can on the other. Lots of can/host swaps... (welding gloves are an essential piece of kit). There was pretty much consensus in all the observations.

The DM held its own, not as quiet as the Omega or 7" builds but quieter than the SpecWar556k. Its performance was totally acceptable to me, as in good, and if it was my First form 1, I would've been totally excited.  I am happy with its performance.  I did have to use a caliper hone to smooth out the machine marks in the tube though, and I am not a fan of the end cap, but whatever.

I will get the stack details on that one later I have to take it apart to trim the front spacer a smidge. I used a round file to hold the cones in alignment and as a friend tightened the end cap. Worked. I have 2 more stamps to build and will do another Form1 tomorrow.  My friend just got one back in 1.5 weeks... its a great time to be a can freak.

Attached File


Here is my single scoop clip. I used a die grinder. After this pic I opened up the bore a smidge.

Man. I think I'm gonna order this when I get home today. I want a short 300bo can. Just need a mount that isn't long.

Would 6 inch be that much worse? I guess the extra baffle and inch is worth it?

Volume through length is usually quieter (longer residence time before the bullet uncorks the front cap). If you are mostly shooting subsonic 300BO and don’t need room in the blast chamber for a muzzle device you can do without his first spacer that extends the blast chamber. That could leave you enough room for a 7th cone and smaller blast chamber could reduce first round pop.

Appreciated. I'm going to be drilling my 6.3 asr build as well.