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Posted: 10/13/2019 10:28:09 PM EDT
GearScout Guide: First Look at the Sig Sauer MCX Spear (NGSW-R)


Saw it in GD.

Sig, shut up and take my money, once there's a civvie version. And then incorporate some of those goodies into the MCX.

@coregon

What's the scoop, buddy?
VP
Link Posted: 10/13/2019 10:43:04 PM EDT
[#1]
How much buyers remorse are they actually trying to cultivate?
Link Posted: 10/13/2019 10:43:04 PM EDT
[#2]
🤷‍♂️

Link Posted: 10/13/2019 11:54:55 PM EDT
[#3]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By M4:
How much buyers remorse are they actually trying to cultivate?
View Quote
Oh, this again.

"Dear Ford,

I noticed some new features in this year's F350 supermegadeluxe. I like them better than the features in my 2016 F150 el cheapo fleet model. Please swap them out, if not, that's bad customer service."
Link Posted: 10/13/2019 11:55:45 PM EDT
[#4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By coregon:

View Quote
What's that?

You've got one for me to T&E and keep, along with a convex full of ammo?
Link Posted: 10/14/2019 12:11:42 AM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JAG2955:
Oh, this again.

"Dear Ford,

I noticed some new features in this year's F350 supermegadeluxe. I like them better than the features in my 2016 F150 el cheapo fleet model. Please swap them out, if not, that's bad customer service."
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JAG2955:
Originally Posted By M4:
How much buyers remorse are they actually trying to cultivate?
Oh, this again.

"Dear Ford,

I noticed some new features in this year's F350 supermegadeluxe. I like them better than the features in my 2016 F150 el cheapo fleet model. Please swap them out, if not, that's bad customer service."
If you can't understand why some SIG customers have concerns with how they've handled various platforms, revisions, re-releases and support you haven't been paying attention.
Link Posted: 10/14/2019 12:54:54 AM EDT
[#6]
Despite Sigs history of shoddy QC, I am actually coming around on the MCX. Sig has actually shown their desire to develop and support the platform and at this point, The MCX platform is far ahead of the Scar in development.

I really like their low visibility 300BLK configuration, I would check out the spear if it it comes  out
Link Posted: 10/14/2019 7:01:11 AM EDT
[#7]
All of the NGSW weapons were supposed to be shown at AUSA this week. So, should be lots more sweet gun porn on the horizon.
Link Posted: 10/14/2019 9:37:18 AM EDT
[#8]
A new caliber I’d have to stock up on.  Cool but I dunno.
Link Posted: 10/14/2019 9:49:17 AM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By M4:
How much buyers remorse are they actually trying to cultivate?
View Quote
I understand where you're coming from, but what buyer's remorse, specifically with a system in this thread, are you referring to?

This doesn't change/obsolete anything that is currently in the lineup.
Link Posted: 10/14/2019 10:48:39 AM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By coregon:
I understand where you're coming from, but what buyer's remorse, specifically with a system in this thread, are you referring to?

This doesn't change/obsolete anything that is currently in the lineup.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By coregon:
Originally Posted By M4:
How much buyers remorse are they actually trying to cultivate?
I understand where you're coming from, but what buyer's remorse, specifically with a system in this thread, are you referring to?

This doesn't change/obsolete anything that is currently in the lineup.
Same thing that someone always posts in a Sig thread.  It's unreasonable to expect that models will be supported forever, and everyone is fine with forgetting that Glock is on their 5th Generation of Perfekshun, and the M&P 1.0 is gone.  I don't want to clutter up a tech thread with arguments.

The MCX is the spiritual successor to the ACR program, and it is probably the most revolutionary gun to get mainstream acceptance in a long time.  I would guess it will probably eclipse most non-AR platforms in military and police usage in the near future.

I want the SPEAR, just in 7.62 to start.  So...about that civilian release date...
Link Posted: 10/14/2019 10:54:05 AM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By coregon:

I understand where you're coming from, but what buyer's remorse, specifically with a system in this thread, are you referring to?

This doesn't change/obsolete anything that is currently in the lineup.
View Quote
I get that what I said doesn't sit well with some and I am anything but anti-SIG. I'm a customer. An at times disenchanted one, but a customer I am.

I hope for nothing but a steady, stable, supported, reliable platform that SIG sticks with for the long term. It looks like this may actually be that, so my statements may have been a bit hasty, but they are based on past history that seems more common to SIG than many others.

The fact that this is targeted towards the military could very well speak to longevity here. That's actually my hope.
Link Posted: 10/14/2019 11:22:53 AM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JAG2955:

Same thing that someone always posts in a Sig thread.  It's unreasonable to expect that models will be supported forever, and everyone is fine with forgetting that Glock is on their 5th Generation of Perfekshun, and the M&P 1.0 is gone.  I don't want to clutter up a tech thread with arguments.

The MCX is the spiritual successor to the ACR program, and it is probably the most revolutionary gun to get mainstream acceptance in a long time.  I would guess it will probably eclipse most non-AR platforms in military and police usage in the near future.

I want the SPEAR, just in 7.62 to start.  So...about that civilian release date...
View Quote
I don't think using a Glock is a good example as I can get all the parts to rebuild a Gen 1 G17.  People who have various versions of the SIG556 can't say the same.

Even so, I picked up a Rattler.  SIG has made some innovative designs now.  I'm sure the Spear caliber is great, but I'd consider buying one in .308.
Link Posted: 10/14/2019 11:37:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: coregon] [#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By M4:
I get that what I said doesn't sit well with some and I am anything but anti-SIG. I'm a customer. An at times disenchanted one, but a customer I am.

I hope for nothing but a steady, stable, supported, reliable platform that SIG sticks with for the long term. It looks like this may actually be that, so my statements may have been a bit hasty, but they are based on past history that seems more common to SIG than many others.

The fact that this is targeted towards the military could very well speak to longevity here. That's actually my hope.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By M4:
Originally Posted By coregon:

I understand where you're coming from, but what buyer's remorse, specifically with a system in this thread, are you referring to?

This doesn't change/obsolete anything that is currently in the lineup.
I get that what I said doesn't sit well with some and I am anything but anti-SIG. I'm a customer. An at times disenchanted one, but a customer I am.

I hope for nothing but a steady, stable, supported, reliable platform that SIG sticks with for the long term. It looks like this may actually be that, so my statements may have been a bit hasty, but they are based on past history that seems more common to SIG than many others.

The fact that this is targeted towards the military could very well speak to longevity here. That's actually my hope.
Rgr - you were speaking to the possibility with this platform, NOT that it was obsoleting something else and causing issues with that platform (how I was reading it).
Link Posted: 10/14/2019 11:46:26 AM EDT
[#14]
Well great, now I need one. A lightweight DMR-oriented MCX with an interesting new cartridge to play with, that will work with my current .30cal can, with both AR-style AND non-recip side charging handles, and has the same folding stock and easy gas system? Yep, I'm in for one on launch day. There goes another two grand…

@Coregon any further info on this new 6.8x51mm cartridge? The two-piece case is interesting, but is it something that could work with single-piece traditional brass, like say forming down from .308?
Link Posted: 10/14/2019 11:58:47 AM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By zombiegristle:
Well great, now I need one. A lightweight DMR-oriented MCX with an interesting new cartridge to play with, that will work with my current .30cal can, with both AR-style AND non-recip side charging handles, and has the same folding stock and easy gas system? Yep, I'm in for one on launch day. There goes another two grand…

@Coregon any further info on this new 6.8x51mm cartridge? The two-piece case is interesting, but is it something that could work with single-piece traditional brass, like say forming down from .308?
View Quote
Lots still up in the air on the new cartridge/casing.  .MIL is driving those conversations, thus the future of it.

This is essentially an "evolved" MCX-MR.  No different than the standard MCX/MCX Virtus, the MCX-MR can be used as a CQB weapon up through a DMR weapon in a host of calibers (308/762, 6.5/260, etc).
Link Posted: 10/14/2019 12:05:33 PM EDT
[#16]
Uh, it's just the pleat of the pants... I'm taking them back to the.... pants store.
Link Posted: 10/14/2019 12:07:00 PM EDT
[#17]
Makes sense; reading through the announcement article I was thinking it seemed like some sort of hybrid CQB/DMR gun. That's going to be a lot of fun to tinker with and work up loads for.

Does it keep the barrel-swap feature? In this one it seems like that would be great for switching out pistol/SBR and longer barrels, instead of caliber swaps.
Link Posted: 10/14/2019 1:25:32 PM EDT
[#18]
In the event this program is abandoned by the military like so many before it will any of this stuff bleed down to your commercial line? Is there any cool tech for these guns @coregon
Link Posted: 10/15/2019 2:54:01 AM EDT
[#19]
Interesting that the legacy charging handle was kept in addition to the side charger... I personally wouldn't mind if it was gone to keep blowback at a minimum.
Link Posted: 10/15/2019 9:40:01 AM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By zombiegristle:
Makes sense; reading through the announcement article I was thinking it seemed like some sort of hybrid CQB/DMR gun. That's going to be a lot of fun to tinker with and work up loads for.

Does it keep the barrel-swap feature? In this one it seems like that would be great for switching out pistol/SBR and longer barrels, instead of caliber swaps.
View Quote
Yes - this is essentially a "big block" MCX.
Link Posted: 10/15/2019 9:40:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: coregon] [#21]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE:
In the event this program is abandoned by the military like so many before it will any of this stuff bleed down to your commercial line? Is there any cool tech for these guns @coregon
View Quote
Time will tell.  I will say that there isn't a "platform", in my tenure at SIG, that I have pushed harder to bring to the commercial market.

What do you mean by "cool tech"?
Link Posted: 10/15/2019 9:40:51 AM EDT
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By patriot_man:
Interesting that the legacy charging handle was kept in addition to the side charger... I personally wouldn't mind if it was gone to keep blowback at a minimum.
View Quote
Its all about program req's
Link Posted: 10/15/2019 11:28:17 AM EDT
[#23]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By coregon:

Time will tell.  I will say that there isn't a "platform", in my tenure at SIG, that I have pushed harder to bring to the commercial market.
View Quote
I will sell my:
wife
children
testicles

LaRue 762 PredatOBR

To buy this once it makes the market.
Link Posted: 10/15/2019 1:54:31 PM EDT
[#24]
I want an MCX-MR, or this if it’s in a commercially available caliber, something fierce. Especially tanodized. This thing looks awesome.
Link Posted: 10/15/2019 10:20:07 PM EDT
[#25]
I’m in for one for sure.  Right after I buy a SOCOM SURG upper.
Link Posted: 10/19/2019 5:46:17 AM EDT
[#26]
Love it. Want 2
You had me at MCX-MR... even better now with the new caliber
Link Posted: 10/23/2019 7:10:34 AM EDT
[#27]
Is it me, or is that a new thin AR stock adapter with an Vltor IMod stock on it, with the optional battery tubes removed?
Link Posted: 10/23/2019 7:33:27 PM EDT
[#28]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SpyHawk:
Is it me, or is that a new thin AR stock adapter with an Vltor IMod stock on it, with the optional battery tubes removed?
View Quote
That is what it looked like to me. I noticed it when the video first posted.  It almost looks like they chopped some length off the front at well.
Link Posted: 10/23/2019 11:58:07 PM EDT
[#29]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By call_me_ski:
That is what it looked like to me. I noticed it when the video first posted.  It almost looks like they chopped some length off the front at well.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By call_me_ski:
Originally Posted By SpyHawk:
Is it me, or is that a new thin AR stock adapter with an Vltor IMod stock on it, with the optional battery tubes removed?
That is what it looked like to me. I noticed it when the video first posted.  It almost looks like they chopped some length off the front at well.
Yes. WANT.
Link Posted: 10/24/2019 12:14:04 AM EDT
[#30]
Link Posted: 10/24/2019 2:18:27 PM EDT
[#31]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TCBA_Joe:
This seems like the best entrant for this program, at least from a shooter perspective.

The other ones that have been shown look like they were designed by Sci-fi prop masters.
View Quote
I'd have to agree.  It's built off a pretty mature system from the MCX, the hybrid case design is unusual to me but seems far more production-ready than the CT and enclosed polymer designs, the ergos are going to be instantly familiar to Big Army, and I wouldn't be surprised if they come in far cheaper than the others since it's all Sig and not big conglomerates with multiple fingers in the pie.

From the pictures, it looks like you could call Sig up today and order them to be delivered in a month.  It appears polished and ready.  The others are rough sci-fi props at best.

While I've groused about Sig's pricing on their flagship products, I'll give them credit for at least bringing things to the commercial market.  Of the 3 groups involved in this NGSW program, they are far and away the most likely to put a commercial derivative up for sale. The Spear in .308 or the belt-fed in .308 would be pretty sweet, even if I couldn't afford them. Textron and GD could not care any less about non-mil buyers.
Link Posted: 10/24/2019 11:05:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: ChrisM516] [#32]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Findsman:

The Spear in .308
View Quote
I would give my left nut for this...or at least an appropriate sum of money.
Link Posted: 10/25/2019 12:50:35 PM EDT
[#33]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Findsman:
I'd have to agree.  It's built off a pretty mature system from the MCX, the hybrid case design is unusual to me but seems far more production-ready than the CT and enclosed polymer designs, the ergos are going to be instantly familiar to Big Army, and I wouldn't be surprised if they come in far cheaper than the others since it's all Sig and not big conglomerates with multiple fingers in the pie.

From the pictures, it looks like you could call Sig up today and order them to be delivered in a month.  It appears polished and ready.  The others are rough sci-fi props at best.

While I've groused about Sig's pricing on their flagship products, I'll give them credit for at least bringing things to the commercial market.  Of the 3 groups involved in this NGSW program, they are far and away the most likely to put a commercial derivative up for sale. The Spear in .308 or the belt-fed in .308 would be pretty sweet, even if I couldn't afford them. Textron and GD could not care any less about non-mil buyers.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Findsman:
Originally Posted By TCBA_Joe:
This seems like the best entrant for this program, at least from a shooter perspective.

The other ones that have been shown look like they were designed by Sci-fi prop masters.
I'd have to agree.  It's built off a pretty mature system from the MCX, the hybrid case design is unusual to me but seems far more production-ready than the CT and enclosed polymer designs, the ergos are going to be instantly familiar to Big Army, and I wouldn't be surprised if they come in far cheaper than the others since it's all Sig and not big conglomerates with multiple fingers in the pie.

From the pictures, it looks like you could call Sig up today and order them to be delivered in a month.  It appears polished and ready.  The others are rough sci-fi props at best.

While I've groused about Sig's pricing on their flagship products, I'll give them credit for at least bringing things to the commercial market.  Of the 3 groups involved in this NGSW program, they are far and away the most likely to put a commercial derivative up for sale. The Spear in .308 or the belt-fed in .308 would be pretty sweet, even if I couldn't afford them. Textron and GD could not care any less about non-mil buyers.
Don't forget, the GD team includes Beretta, who makes the actual gun.

Further, the Textron team includes HK, who is playing a significant role in the weapon manufacture.

Both Beretta and HK sell to civilians.
Link Posted: 10/25/2019 1:06:51 PM EDT
[#34]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By coregon:

Yes - this is essentially a "big block" MCX.
View Quote
So is it AR-180 style, or is it like the MCX-MR (long stroke) like shown in Recoil Magazine a few years ago?

Link
Link Posted: 10/25/2019 4:10:13 PM EDT
[#35]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SpyHawk:

Don't forget, the GD team includes Beretta, who makes the actual gun.

Further, the Textron team includes HK, who is playing a significant role in the weapon manufacture.

Both Beretta and HK sell to civilians.
View Quote
Yes, I was going to mention that but I decided to leave it out of my post.

Ultimately, I think both parties will be constrained by the lead partners.  I suspect the firearm designs will end up being property of General Dynamics and Textron.  Beretta and HK may manufacture or help design them but they won't own the design to turn around and sell on the commercial market.  Big Defense Contractors don't care about that market for the most part, too small.  The other advantage this gives them is setting pricing however they want.  With no commercial market derivative selling for $2500, they can turn around and offer them at $10,000 a piece if they wanted without raising issues when the beancounters compare their contract response to commercial pricing.  I think this is why the ACR got launched at $2500, Cerberus wanted to justify selling it for a premium to the government.

Don't get me wrong, I am a huge fan of Beretta between the 92-series and the ARX rifle, and a lukewarm fan of HK via the USP and a bunch of clone rifles.  For Beretta, I think there's elements within the company that want to drive these sales and get new tactical products on the market.  They did turn around and get the M9A3 to the commercial market after the military turned their nose up at it, and dragged the entire ARX production line here to make semi-auto rifles.  But their sales/marketing side is entirely clueless on how to position these things in front of people.  I imagine it being full of fudds that don't really want to sell them, and the Beretta Defense Technologies people are more tuned into the Big Government Contractor mindset.

HK, well, I know their reputation of "you suck, and we hate you" is mostly myth given how constrained they are by the German government.  Crying "You can't sell weapons of war to those Americans!  They violate human rights!" while inking a deal to sell G36s with any one of a number of middle eastern nations that make the US look like a saint. HK USA has some leadership that wants to get it done; we got the MR556A1, MR762A1, and the rebirth of the SP89 SP5K, but they are pretty dated.  The 416 is up to what, the A7 now?  And the MR556A1 still uses that unlined barrel because "chrome-lining may be less accurate"?  I have zero confidence HK would expend any effort to bring something like this to market.
Link Posted: 11/16/2019 11:47:13 AM EDT
[#36]
Bump.
Can we have this before the election?
In 6.5C or 308..
Please w/ sugar on top
Link Posted: 11/17/2019 10:37:22 AM EDT
[#37]
Hopefully we'll hear something about it at SHOT show.

I'll have no need for a Tavor 7 if this comes out.
Link Posted: 11/17/2019 3:49:15 PM EDT
[#38]
If it will hold around 1moa with match grade ammo I will snag it in a heartbeat.   If it comes in the tanodized color I would do anything for it
Link Posted: 11/17/2019 4:25:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: BurtSaun1049] [#39]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By mban2:
If it will hold around 1moa with match grade ammo I will snag it in a heartbeat.   If it comes in the tanodized color I would do anything for it
View Quote
Did you say anything? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Link Posted: 11/17/2019 8:47:04 PM EDT
[#40]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By BurtSaun1049:

Did you say anything? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
View Quote
you know my propensity for tano items...
Link Posted: 11/17/2019 9:49:54 PM EDT
[#41]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By mban2:
you know my propensity for tano items...
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By mban2:
Originally Posted By BurtSaun1049:

Did you say anything? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
you know my propensity for tano items...
Link Posted: 11/23/2019 10:42:00 PM EDT
[#42]
I'll take one in 6.5 Creedmoor along with a barrel for every caliber you offer it in
Link Posted: 12/26/2019 9:30:02 PM EDT
[#43]
Late to the party but any new news here?  Must have this...
Link Posted: 12/26/2019 9:42:49 PM EDT
[#44]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By right_rudder:
I'll take one in 6.5 Creedmoor along with a barrel for every caliber you offer it in
View Quote
So, just the .277 thing and .308?

Still waiting for those 7.62x39mm kits for the MCX…
Link Posted: 12/26/2019 9:48:13 PM EDT
[#45]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By WillMunny:
Late to the party but any new news here?  Must have this...
View Quote
A little bit of news at the bottom of page 1:
https://www.ar15.com/forums/Armory/SHOT-Show-expectations-for-the-MCX-MPX/45-505359/?page=1
Link Posted: 12/26/2019 11:22:58 PM EDT
[#46]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By zombiegristle:
So, just the .277 thing and .308?

Still waiting for those 7.62x39mm kits for the MCX
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By zombiegristle:
Originally Posted By right_rudder:
I'll take one in 6.5 Creedmoor along with a barrel for every caliber you offer it in
So, just the .277 thing and .308?

Still waiting for those 7.62x39mm kits for the MCX
I'll buy all 3 if offered but won't buy without 6.5 creedmoor being offered.

* I too am still waiting for 7.62x39. So unless the creedmoor can be actually purchased I'm not interested.
Link Posted: 12/28/2019 11:42:53 PM EDT
[#47]
So I was looking over the Spear stuff again. I see two barrel lengths listed: 16" (from the Gearscout video), and 13.7, from a host of other sources. Both are common lengths for NFA reasons in the US market.

Is it a sign?
Link Posted: 12/29/2019 12:14:28 AM EDT
[#48]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JAG2955:
So I was looking over the Spear stuff again. I see two barrel lengths listed: 16" (from the Gearscout video), and 13.7, from a host of other sources. Both are common lengths for NFA reasons in the US market.

Is it a sign?
View Quote
I know they're gonna show everything about it at SHOT, but it's going to still be a long, 3-4 week wait.
Link Posted: 12/29/2019 12:48:24 AM EDT
[#49]
I'm just hoping they announce a release date and price at SHOT.
Link Posted: 12/29/2019 12:52:26 AM EDT
[#50]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JAG2955:
I'm just hoping they announce a release date and price at SHOT.
View Quote
Surely that will come with it, even if it's just a 'Fall 2020' or something like that.
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