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Posted: 2/20/2018 4:48:55 PM EDT
In order to reload a thousand rounds I need:
4lbs powder.(100) 1000 primers(30) Thousand projectiles(80) Brass(free) Total. 210 ( and we're not even talking about the amount of time prepping the brass) I've been buying loaded ammo (on sale) for 249 per thousand/ Federal with Lake City brass Of course it's winter time in Wisconsin, so it does give me something to do.. but for the love of God why bother! Granted for precision rounds I don't really care about the cost... but these are just mag dump rounds. The wife says I complain about it every time I reload them 
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Posted: 2/20/2018 4:52:31 PM EDT
[#1]
Yeah, I've been buying IMI for .23. The loading machines just sit idle.
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Posted: 2/20/2018 5:10:34 PM EDT
[#2]
I reload .223 on a single stage, so I know how tedious it is. I'll be upgrading to a 650 soon, at which point I'll really start shooting more.
I only load for precision, and the cost difference really shows up when your comparing prices to match ammo.  Attached File |
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Posted: 2/20/2018 5:17:16 PM EDT
[#3]
I bought my first store bought 5.56mm this month in over 30 years. IMI 62 grain m855 450 rounds for $119.00. While I truly dislike ball ammo, that price made it impossible to turn down.
I never do magazine dumps. I believe that accurate aimed fire wins fire fights. My entire stock of reloading supplies is match grade bullets for both practice and competition. While I spend way too much, I always buy stuff in bulk and on sale. I take advantage of deals whether I need supplies or not. 8 pound canisters are much cheaper than one at a time. I purchased 12,000 Hornady 52 grain bullets for $960.00 a few years back. They group under an from almost every rifle I own. They're my blasting, combat style and short range tournament bullets. I'm good for at least five years. If all I wanted to do was make noise I would buy the cheapest crap ammo that reliably feeds and functions through my rifle and call it good. I hate shooting groups with ball ammo, the stuff is junk. |
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Posted: 2/20/2018 5:29:00 PM EDT
[#4]
I would only add that my cost breakdown per thousand varies slightly from yours.
It cost me approximately $70 per thousand for powder as I buy 8 pound jugs. My cost per thousand of 223 is $170. In the end, my reloads are cheaper, more accurate and I enjoy reloading. YMMV. |
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Posted: 2/20/2018 5:33:03 PM EDT
[#5]
I'm all about precision, with that said... I have a few ar's dedicated for mag dumps when we hold shoots for different groups of people(kids). I'll allow them one mag each to shoot it however they want, 95% of the time it's a MAG dump with a huge smile at the end...
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Posted: 2/20/2018 5:37:25 PM EDT
[#6]
The point of reloading .223 is not to make cheap ammo, it's to make match grade ammo for the same cost as decent run of the mill factory ammo.
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Posted: 2/20/2018 5:44:07 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The point of reloading .223 is not to make cheap ammo, it's to make match grade ammo for the same cost as decent run of the mill factory ammo. 
I got plenty of other calibers to make match Grade ammo for that is more suitable for my Precision needs |
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Posted: 2/20/2018 5:55:38 PM EDT
[#8]
I bought 6000 55gr hornaday boolits a while back, have tons of powder, lots of primers, and piles of brass. Might as well do it as cheap as I can for now. Sure, prebuilt ammo isn't much more, but what the hell, if I can load up what I'm gonna take to the range I can still hang onto what's in the ammo cans.
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Posted: 2/20/2018 5:56:45 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The point of reloading .223 is not to make cheap ammo, it's to make match grade ammo for the same cost as decent run of the mill factory ammo. |
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Posted: 2/20/2018 5:58:33 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't shoot bulk type 55gr FMJ ammo thru my precision rifles. That's what the OP is talking about where it makes no sense to reload right now from what I am gathering and I agree with him. 
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Posted: 2/20/2018 6:00:38 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I bought 6000 55gr hornaday boolits a while back, have tons of powder, lots of primers, and piles of brass. Might as well do it as cheap as I can for now. Sure, prebuilt ammo isn't much more, but what the hell, if I can load up what I'm gonna take to the range I can still hang onto what's in the ammo cans. 
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Posted: 2/20/2018 6:02:18 PM EDT
[#12]
I'm closer to $180/k. From a cost benefit perspective that's worth it to me, and to all but anyone making $143k or more per year at the rate I can produce it.
Also, it's fun. |
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Posted: 2/20/2018 6:03:35 PM EDT
[#13]
Match or precision ammo, yes, it's worth it and makes sense from a financial standpoint.
Bulk plinking ammo, nope, especially at today's prices. I've never loaded bulk rifle ammo and have no plans to. It's simply too much work for the return unless you make a pretty hefty investment in equipment. I just pick up a case or three of quality 5.56 whenever a smoking deal comes around. |
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Posted: 2/20/2018 6:16:58 PM EDT
[#14]
.223 is awfully cheap these days. For blasting ammo it isn't worth the effort to reload BUT for match grade .223 or .308 and almost all other calibers it is still the best way to go.
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Posted: 2/20/2018 6:35:48 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
In order to reload a thousand rounds I need: 4lbs powder.(100) 1000 primers(30) Thousand projectiles(80) Brass(free) Total. 210 ( and we're not even talking about the amount of time prepping the brass) I've been buying loaded ammo (on sale) for 249 per thousand/ Federal with Lake City brass Of course it's winter time in Wisconsin, so it does give me something to do.. but for the love of God why bother! Granted for precision rounds I don't really care about the cost... but these are just mag dump rounds. The wife says I complain about it every time I reload them To me your wasting your your time if it has any value at all at today's prices. |
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Posted: 2/20/2018 6:36:06 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah, I've been buying IMI for .23. The loading machines just sit idle. |
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Posted: 2/20/2018 6:43:15 PM EDT
[#17]
Totally agree - why reload for 223 - or 9mm/380/38Spl/40 for that matter.
I still do it for other calibers, but time is not infinite and at an extra few cents... |
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Posted: 2/20/2018 6:49:14 PM EDT
[#18]
For AR15 general target and even a little defensive application I've bought and stored a boat load of ammo-by-the-case for .223/5.56 and use it frequently.
For serious work with 68g and 75g HPBT bullets I reload, and I definitely load my 75g ELD-M bullets. For hunting with my 18" and 20" AR15's, I load that ammo with bullets of my choice. My 24" bull barrel AR15 "bench" gun gets those 75g ELD-M's in a side charger single shot. Oh, almost forgot...I load my subsonic 300BO rounds for obvious reasons. My other five AR's from 11.5" to 16" usually get a diet of bulk factory ammo. Honestly, they shoot pretty good and will kill most things within any reasonable range when needed. I'd hate to bulk reload personally, but some enjoy it and/or have the machinery to make it easier. People are different, options are good. |
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Posted: 2/20/2018 6:56:46 PM EDT
[#19]
For blasting ammo right now it is a waste of time.
For me 223 and 9mm just aren't worth it unless Im bored. Buy cheap plinking ammo now, save the brass for match loads later. |
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Posted: 2/20/2018 7:13:27 PM EDT
[#20]
.223 is a new caliber for me and while I bought the supplies to load I quickly realized that it wasn't worth it to load range ammo. I bought match bullets and what I do load is more a match round. I don't load many because I don't compete but find them useful to testing the limits of my rifle and shooting groups. I also load on a single stage. If I end up getting a 550 then I might load a few more .223 but still not going to waste time loading FMJ for plinking. Haven't even bothered to buy dies for 9mm because I can't see that ever being worthwhile for me.
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Posted: 2/20/2018 7:48:20 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
.223 is awfully cheap these days. For blasting ammo it isn't worth the effort to reload BUT for match grade .223 or .308 and almost all other calibers it is still the best way to go. In the last few months, I've purchased 1000s of factory Norma and Lapua rounds for under $.30/round. It's all 55 gr FMJ but actually reasonably accurate stuff. And every bang leaves behind sweet, sweet once fired brass with "LAPUA MATCH 223 REM" and "norma 223 REM" headstamps to feed the presses. New Lapua brass goes for $60+ per 100 but they were selling ammo loaded in it for less than 1/2 that. The Norma headstamped stuff is actually a bit heavier and more consistent than Lapua. In my world, I suffer so much, I have to go to the range to shoot cheap ammo and manufacture brass for my competition rifles. |
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Posted: 2/20/2018 9:07:10 PM EDT
[#22]
Where's the poll?
I think OP would groan and moan when ammo jumps in price again. Then when it comes back down he'll moan and groan cause he can't find components. I say have fun making empties but stock up and be ready when it's hard to come by. Now carry on with the regulatory scheduled program. |
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Posted: 2/20/2018 9:17:20 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I reload .223 on a single stage, so I know how tedious it is. I'll be upgrading to a 650 soon, at which point I'll really start shooting more. I only load for precision, and the cost difference really shows up when your comparing prices to match ammo. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/335613/Screenshot_20180220-140903-458666.JPG If all you do is spray bullets then keep buying bulk. Load sub-moa ammo and shoot it surgically. |
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Posted: 2/20/2018 9:18:18 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Where's the poll? I think OP would groan and moan when ammo jumps in price again. Then when it comes back down he'll moan and groan cause he can't find components. I say have fun making empties but stock up and be ready when it's hard to come by. Now carry on with the regulatory scheduled program. I’ve already said I don’t load 223 in bulk, but I could start tomorrow with what I have here if proper motivation presented itself. |
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Posted: 2/20/2018 9:25:10 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah, I've been buying IMI for .23. The loading machines just sit idle. |
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Posted: 2/20/2018 9:27:39 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The point of reloading .223 is not to make cheap ammo, it's to make match grade ammo for the same cost as decent run of the mill factory ammo. |
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Posted: 2/20/2018 9:39:16 PM EDT
[#27]
Your wasting your time. Send all that crap to me and I'll waste it for you.
ETA: You'll appreciate it more when the next democrat rakes office. |
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Posted: 2/20/2018 9:43:38 PM EDT
[#28]
You're not even counting all the time to swage and trim. Man, I hated reloading.
I'm happy to pay few more bucks more for someone else to do it. |
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Posted: 2/20/2018 10:08:11 PM EDT
[#29]
I make 55FMJ for $163 per 1K, and 77 grain match loads for $230 per 1K, but I bought most of the components a long time ago, and use a Dillon 1050 so time is minimal. Right now loaded ammo is taking a huge hit in price and soon the same will happen to reloading components.
It isn't the funnest thing but I like custom loads that get the best performance from my gun. |
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Posted: 2/20/2018 10:13:11 PM EDT
[#30]
I’ve done hardly any reloading lately, but the dirty brass piling up has gotten to me, so I’ve started recapping and cleaning them up to put away for my rainy days even as I shoot new ammo.
It’s satisfying to do, even if I don’t reload them. Someday another Obama-like Gun hater will get in and prices will go up, or there will be serious ammo shortages again for known reasons. It’s time to stock up on supplies during time of plenty. It’s always time to prepare. |
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Posted: 2/20/2018 11:36:04 PM EDT
[#31]
In all the years I have reloaded (decades, really), I have never once loaded a 55 gr FMJ. Neither have I tried for the lowest unit price nor just made "blasting ammo" nor "mag dump ammo" - not even once.
That just isn't why I reload. On the day you can buy Federal Gold Medal Match or LAPUA Match ammo for $0.25/round then, and only then, will you be able to buy factory ammo at the same price for which I reload. That is why I reload. |
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Posted: 2/21/2018 7:07:56 AM EDT
[#32]
Bought my first factory centerfire ammo in some time last year when Federal had their rebate programs going on American Eagle.
4K each of 55gr .233 and 147gr 9mm. When I did the math the .223 cost me ~$100/1k and the 9mm ~$30/1k over my handloading costs. Been catching up on other reloading projects instead of making pistol and hoser stage .223 ammo since the holidays. |
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Posted: 2/21/2018 9:17:58 AM EDT
[#33]
I bought my first mosin early 90's. I got it because of the tuna cans stacked deep and cheap. Bought my first ak, same reason. Bought my first ar and 223 bolt gun, same. Bult a 300blk reload only. So it all has to do with if it is available cheaper you bet I'm not loading it for something plinking with. My bolt guns I am loading for a different purpose.
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Posted: 2/21/2018 9:44:00 AM EDT
[#34]
I came to the same conclusion as you OP.
Blasting ammo for my AK's is at the point where I can't load it cheaper than buying it, so I've started buying cases of factory stuff to shoot now and save my supplies of components for when the prices go back up. Precision rifle ammo and all pistol rounds are still worth reloading. I can make 38 Spcl with lead PC'd bullets for 8 cents per round. The cheapest factory lead bullet stuff I've seen is .24 cpr. .223/5.56 and 7.62x39 just isn't worth reloading right now BUT prices will go back up, when they do I'll start loading those again. |
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Posted: 2/21/2018 9:48:27 AM EDT
[#35]
Even if you just stack it deep and shoot factory stuff, it will be there on a rainy day. I started reloading .223 on one of those rainy days.
I started with .300AAC as my first rifle reloads and after I found out how easy it was, I had to do .223 because of the stacks of free brass I had on hand. |
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Posted: 2/21/2018 9:51:54 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In all the years I have reloaded (decades, really), I have never once loaded a 55 gr FMJ. Neither have I tried for the lowest unit price nor just made "blasting ammo" nor "mag dump ammo" - not even once. That just isn't why I reload. On the day you can buy Federal Gold Medal Match or LAPUA Match ammo for $0.25/round then, and only then, will you be able to buy factory ammo at the same price for which I reload. That is why I reload. |
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Posted: 2/21/2018 9:55:11 AM EDT
[#37]
I reload for the accuracy reason sure, but mostly because I can get a few hours of peace and quiet away from the wife. And I can't just sit around a watch TV, I have to be busy doing something, so I might as well reload.
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Posted: 2/21/2018 9:58:50 AM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
In order to reload a thousand rounds I need: 4lbs powder.(100) 1000 primers(30) Thousand projectiles(80) Brass(free) Total. 210 ( and we're not even talking about the amount of time prepping the brass) I've been buying loaded ammo (on sale) for 249 per thousand/ Federal with Lake City brass Of course it's winter time in Wisconsin, so it does give me something to do.. but for the love of God why bother! Granted for precision rounds I don't really care about the cost... but these are just mag dump rounds. The wife says I complain about it every time I reload them In times of plenty for reasons other than longer precision, some consider buying the rounds with good brass and save the brass for other purposes. If history is any indication, there will be other shortages. |
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Posted: 2/21/2018 10:10:55 AM EDT
[#39]
There is only so much time to reload. Pick your battles.
Over the years I have done pretty good sniffing out deals on bulk components. If I dove into some of my stockpile I could likely reload 5.56 for less than 10 cents each . I am not going to toss the stuff out but I still don't bother The time I have is spent reloading 5.56 match ammo ,30/06, 45/70,45apc,44mag and spl,357 and 38. |
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Posted: 2/21/2018 10:15:08 AM EDT
[#40]
I made over 12000 rds 223 last year using some older components, figured my cost was 15cents a round, at least 10 cents a round cheaper than bulk 55 grain ammo
12000 * $0.10 = $1200 savings |
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Posted: 2/21/2018 11:01:18 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There is only so much time to reload. Pick your battles. Over the years I have done pretty good sniffing out deals on bulk components. If I dove into some of my stockpile I could likely reload 5.56 for less than 10 cents each . I am not going to toss the stuff out but I still don't bother The time I have is spent reloading 5.56 match ammo ,30/06, 45/70,45apc,44mag and spl,357 and 38. While it's true I could reload more accurate versions of these for about the same as factory (I don't have any stockpiles of components bought at old sale prices, I'm still building my stockpile at current prices), I feel the additional accuracy would mostly be lost for the type of shooting I'm doing with bulk ammo (1 MOA or 3 MOA are still minute-of-torso for training purposes). My reloading time is my biggest limitation, so I spend that on ammunition where I'll realize the most benefit from both my cost savings and improved accuracy. For some guys, they have plenty of time but are more limited in the money they will spend on shooting. In that case it makes perfect sense to stack components cheap, find components on sale, and crank out lots of better-than-factory ammo at equal or less than factory prices. |
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Posted: 2/21/2018 11:14:33 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Care to share the grid numbers of that fishin' hole? |
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Posted: 2/21/2018 11:16:04 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You're not even counting all the time to swage and trim. Man, I hated reloading.
I'm happy to pay few more bucks more for someone else to do it. |
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Posted: 2/21/2018 12:10:07 PM EDT
[#44]
I never loaded much .223 "mag dump" ammo. Only more precision loads for SR competition or plinking steel out to 750 yds.
Even most of my purchased ammo is steel cased now. Got so much good brass stored up it just doesn't matter anymore. |
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Posted: 2/21/2018 12:21:00 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If I am going to spend the time reloading 223 with todays prices, it is going to be with good bullets that meet decent accuracy requirements. However, not all the ar's owned are good at longer ranges, especially the sbr's or 16 incher with open sights. In addition, am prone to practice at very short distances (not steel) hand held where precision rounds are just wasted. In times of plenty for reasons other than longer precision, some consider buying the rounds with good brass and save the brass for other purposes. If history is any indication, there will be other shortages. I got bored yesterday, and all my other loading projects were done. One thing led to another and started on my stash for short range disposal bullets. Thank goodness my parts came in for my other builds yesterday afternoon... Today I can spend my time putting together more productive projects
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Posted: 2/21/2018 12:35:05 PM EDT
[#46]
I don't have a video of it, but I took fresh from the factory Federal XM193 and XM855 and spun it in my fancy concentricity gauge and it was just as bad or even worse than in the first part of this video:
 Concentricity Issues Solved! Before vs. After |
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Posted: 2/21/2018 1:08:14 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't have a video of it, but I took fresh from the factory Federal XM193 and XM855 and spun it in my fancy concentricity gauge and it was just as bad or even worse than in the first part of this video:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LtWjzLjFx0 |
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Posted: 2/21/2018 7:36:49 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't have a video of it, but I took fresh from the factory Federal XM193 and XM855 and spun it in my fancy concentricity gauge and it was just as bad or even worse than in the first part of this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LtWjzLjFx0Everything I've ever heard about XM193 leads me to believe it qualifies only as "blasting ammo". I don't know anything about XM855 but suspect it might be similar in its quality. Earlier, I mentioned Federal GMM and LAPUA ammunition. Those are higher quality than XM193, but I've never measured runout on either, despite having shot a lot the 308 Federal GMM. The thing is, they use a better quality bullet than XM193. |
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Posted: 2/21/2018 8:29:35 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is it possible that the case is not perfectly symmetrical? In which case would throw off reading , yet not affect accuracy of projectile? |
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Posted: 2/21/2018 8:51:24 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The case is what aligns the bullet with the bore, so it wouldn’t matter what’s off, the bullet is still going to start its journey out of square with the barrel. |
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