You didn’t say anything about dings in the case, you asked about a case that wasn’t symmetrical.

I see you edited your post, so I’ll do the same.

The chamber aligns the entire cartridge, the bullet doesn’t contact anything until it’s fired (with exception for guys loading into the lands, not what we’re talking about here). If the bullet isn’t square with the cartridge it won’t be square with the bore. It may or may not straighten itself out when it hits the lands, or it may deform a small amount and leave the barrel with a small wobble to its spin.

If you want to bulk load 223 cheap you need to start with buying multiple 8lb jugs of WC844 for as cheap as you can find it, and then find some 55fmj pulled bullets.

I remember when PMC Gold 223 was $.75 a round during the panic (if you could find it).

These salad days won’t last forever, boys.

The original question was if the case had an inconsistency in it while it was in the concentricity gauge, could that throw off the reading

Not to pick nits, but you specifically used the word “symmetrical” and did not used the word “inconsistency” in the original question. I get what you’re saying now and the answer to your question above is yes, a dent or crease in the case will throw off readings If it’s in a spot that contacts the gauge.

That said, I don’t think most guys that bother with checking concentricity are running dented cases through their gauges

I am planning on reloading a few thousand rounds of .223 for general range shooting in the next week.

The only reason I am doing it now is because I have the powder, primers and projectiles that I had bought several years ago before Sandy Hook.  I also have a Dillon 1050 that makes it easier.

If I didn't already have the components I wouldn't bother to reload for general range use ammo anymore.

Of course reloading for precision is completely another thing.

I don't plan to do any more reloading in the future as long as the ammo prices stay anywhere near what they are now.

It depends.

Why do you reload?

You already laid out how close the cost of reloading is to purchasing factory ammunition, so if you're doing it to save money, you have to ask yourself whether the small different you presented is worth it to you.

I don't know what value you attach to your time, but for myself I did add up the cost of reloading 9mm Luger.  It came to between $14 and $15 per 100 with cheap jacketed bullets.  When I factored in my time at my current billing rate, it came out to about $125 per 100.

First, I shoot to support my reloading habit.

Second, nobody loads the 60 grain 2,850 fps load that I standardized on 38 years ago and still routinely load, so if I want to shoot the round I know best, I must reload it.

Third, it enables me to say that with the exception of the first box through a new (or new-to-me) gun which gets factory ammunition (fewer then 300 factory rounds fired in more than 40 years), everything I shoot is something I have loaded.

Fourth, I reload to stay sane enough to go to work to have the money to shoot to further support my reloading habit.

Without getting too political, the main reason I got into reloading is availability.

Every day it seems, CA state politicians redefine just how full retard they can go.

Ammo availability and price are good for most, today.  Tomorrow may not be the same.

I abstained from this thread for a few days hoping it would not go the way of every other "Is it worth it to reload 556 and 9MM" thread

$.24 CPR shipped vs $.16 CPR reloaded is a hard sale for 556.

NUMBERS TO FOLLOW.

6000 count hornady FMJ  = $417.59 shipped is $.069 CPR (Did not order anything else at all. did not save on shipping other items)

H335 8lbs = $181 plus shipping so about $195/8/7000x24.5=$.084 CPR

Small rifle primers. (Doesn't really matter the brand) = $.029 CPR (shop around)

Brass... Free. It is everywhere.

Total, about $.18 CPR reloaded. Difference between the $.24 CPR is about $.06 (I round up and down depending on my mood.)

Reloading kit = $141 shipped on amazon.
Dies for 5.56 = $31.01
Misc... Who knows. $50. (You know you will get something else to support the stuff)

You would have to load 3700.16 rounds. to break even on your reloading set up at $.06 CPR saved. And that would be a very slow and painful 3700 rounds. Totally not worth it.

But, add in that you can reload 300 Remington Short action ultra mag with only a extra $36 investment in dies (cheap dies) and save over $1.50 a round, then add that you can do the same with 300 winmag, and 6.5 creedmoor, and 45 acp, and 22 TCM, and 7MM remmag, and .667 fukemupwenithits AI*. And save extraordinary amounts of money on those less common rounds and pay for your equipment in the first 200 to 400 rounds.

I reload for the interesting calibers and the precision part of the cheaper calibers. If you reload to save a nickle on your blasting ammo, you may be wasting your time. I save money on the blasting calibers because I already have the equipment and the knowledge to do it without extra cost.

*Does not exist yet. Would be super cool if it did.

Yeah, if you want to buy ammo now in CA you have to go thru an FFL and get a NICS check.  Needless to say, those processes are not free and add to the cost of the factory ammo.

If prices are low right now, I might be wise to buy a BUNCH of components in bulk.  Reloading components are not subject to FFL/NICS checks (for now).

Just so everybody knows...

I reload a few wild cats as well as multiple Precision rifles, and I have a few Progressive presses for handguns... and I spend many hours reloading in my cave. The original post was put up more in fun then in complaint. I have quite a stash of store bought ammo that I was staring at while reloading my plinking rounds... and although I do have a good stash of components to put together on a rainy day, I decided to kill some time and load some up. The whole time I was doing it I was looking at the store-bought stuff thinking to myself why am I doing this today, LOL.

You guys have had some good posts and you are not wrong... well most of you

No, no, no, it has to be a 0.499 nukular fukemupwenithits Ackley Improved - I call it the 499 NFA.  Anything over 0.50 caliber is a Federally defined destructive device and is also probably banned in CA, NY, NJ and MD.

But, yes, specialty calibers allow you save extraordinary money on every round.

The simple answer is if you are reloading plinking ammo, yes you are wasting your time, if you are reloading match grade ammo then no you are not.

Here is some Black Hills that I spun:



and the group it printed;

Attached File


versus:

Attached File


and:

Attached File

Yes sir if you are actually reloading mag dump ammo you are wasting your time.

I'm a mag dumping nut some days not with rifle reloads it's to much work

I make my .223 for about $19 CPR on my 650.  I havn't in a while because i don't shoot .223 much any more.  If I had a range where I could do drills on multiple targets I would shoot a lot more.  My rambling $0.02.

<wrong forum>

In general, when it comes to M193 spec quality loads, there is a disconnect going on right now - you are correct.   The driving factor to that, in my opinion, is that powder prices are currently excessive.  Powder, and in particular military spec powders, should be closer to $100/jug right now, but are going for twice that for most retail outlets.  Primers should be 22/1k, and are if you shop hard enough.  Bullets are also a little on the high side, with only a few providers playing ball.  Match ammo is another story of course, but for just blasting ammo, I wouldn't advise anyone to enter the reloading game.  That said, if you already have the gear and partial inventory, and enjoy it, then yes, you can beat the prices more than posted - if you are willing to wait for the right sales and buy in bulk.  For example:

Quoted:

[color=#0000ff]In order to reload a thousand rounds I need:
4lbs powder.(100) (shop, and it's closer to $80; shop well, and it can be even lower)

1000 primers(30) (25 if you shop, again, if you shop well and buy in bulk, closer to 22 (Cabella's S&B))

Thousand projectiles(80) (Closer to 65, if you buy them by the 6000 from Brownells when on sale.  If you really shop, I've picked up many thousands of crap-rejects for as low as 40/k (for crappy bullets, but hey))

Brass(free)
Total.

210 ( and we're not even talking about the amount of time prepping the brass)
I have some lots as low as ~120/k.  M193 spec lots are closer to 155/k.  All of this completely neglects labor value, nor the time-value of money when buying in bulk; but it's doable

I've been buying loaded ammo  (on sale) for 249 per thousand/ Federal with Lake City brass
Of course it's winter time in Wisconsin, so it does give me something to do.. but for the love of God why bother!
(You're right - unless  you already have the components sitting on the shelf - there's little reason to bother at todays retail prices.  I will say this; don't expect this to last forever.  Either reloading component pricings are going to start falling, or current ammo prices are unsustainable.  Personally, I think a little of both.  If people think 25 cent M193 is going to stay around long term, that's great - but I'm not so sure).  But yea, I'm mostly burning through inventory on-hand now.  I only bother to buy components if there's a stupid-low sale.

Granted for precision rounds I don't really care about the cost... but these are just mag dump rounds. The wife says I complain about it every time I reload them
[/color]
(end quote)

Almost gave me a woody, love those mag dumps, serious.   As cheap as 9mm is wish I had a full auto HKMP5.  MAGA

Which ones?

I'm always looking for someone who knows about loading for 5.7mm Johnson/22 Spitfire.

.277 wolverines( this one's getting more mainstream though), 6mm mongoose, couple other ones in the fire but don't have going yet. The Spitfire looks intriguing to me

My 9mm ar is a hell of a lot of fun!

Every 2 years I load 6,000rds of .223/5.56.

Powder (24# H335), bullets (6,000ct Hornady 55gr fmj), and primers (CCI 450)

run me right at $1,040.

Which works out to $0.17/rd, $170/1,000rds.

Ammo prices like that ain't been seen in a long time.

Now consider I get the cash for components by selling brass picked up at local range.

My real out of pocket expense is $0.00 for 6,000 rounds of ammo.

All it costs me is my time, and if I weren't reloading or scrounging brass,

I would be sitting in front of TV getting older and fatter.

I've thought about doing this now that I have a tumbler. I've been picking up brass the past few weekends and when I get enough why not decap and tumble the rest for sale? Just not sure how well it will sell.

I find it is really about a good bullet......LC cases mixed head stamps on a RCBS progressive





30 Cal 168 on the progressive

`

Hold up there sparky, .38 spl is ridiculous. ~$25/ 50 for new when you can reload for ~$3/50 all day long. I reload because I want to, it is relaxing and a better use of time than watching sportball.

<removed>

Please keep political posts in GD. dryflash3

If it's just for mag dumps like you say, yep you are losing your ass.
I shoot from the bench and hunt with reloads, and buy steel for screwing around, and letting the cases land where they may is a big win-win.

My .02cents....  If you reload to save money, then you probably got into the hobby for the wrong reasons.  Mainly, what ever you do save, you forfeit by shooting more - not necessarily a bad thing.  I've been reloading for well over 20, almost 25 years now.  I still buy bulk ammo online when it's on good "fire" sales like Black Friday, 4th of July, etc. for just that purpose you speak of.  Great cheap plinking ammo, and now you have some nice once-fired brass to toss into your stash bucket.  Is it super quality brass; no.  But I'm also not chasing down every piece of brass I fire like a OCD maniac at the range.  If I can collect the majority of what I shoot, I'm happy.  Plus you always end up with other brass mixed in as well   (whom ever shoots 9mm MAK and leaves their brass at the range, please punch yourself in the throat).  So buying plinking ammo is not a bad thing.  However, when re-loading off-popular cartridges (6.5, 6.8, 300BLK, .308. .50, and most large hunting/wildcat calibers) where virgin brass starts running at ~$1 per brass case, and factory match loads run at a minimum $2+ each, you realize saving the brass and reloading starts to really be a game changer.  Especially if running a suppressor.  I simply won't reload 9mm unless I'm putting 147's through a can - it's not worth my time to re-load range ammo.  As you say, the few cents saved per round doesn't warrant the time invested.  But I still save the cases and re-use to reload expensive ammo.  With all that being said, I learned at an early age, buy it cheap and stack it deep.  I have a good stash of pre-manufactured bulk ammo, re-loaded match ammo,  buckets of cleaned and resized /polished brass, jugs of appropriate powder, all caliber pills that I have dies for, and the gauntlet of primers.  Then I watched the panic of 2008....glad I was stocked.  Then 2012 panic came around.....then the (sadly) never ending mass-shootings.  Prices went from mild to wild.  Even .22LR broke the double digit CPR for a while.  Primers were unobtainium for many months along with powder.  Factory ammo prices nearly doubled overnight and then people started panic buying (why?).  We are fortunate that prices are relatively low, but with every tragedy or administration change, the panic ensues.  We never know what the future holds.  I have heard so many rumors and watched attempted legislation to ban bulk purchases of ammunition or eliminating online sales all together.  What if that day comes?  Never say never.  It's good to have a good stock pile that you weren't forced to buy when everything was at a premium; as well as have the skillset and equipment to re-load should the day come when we can no longer buy online (tax free), cases at a time.  So when you make the comment: it's not worth my time to re-load .223; then don't, but save the brass and reload some precision .223 rounds every now and then because the grass may not be so green down the road.  Reloading isn't an all or nothing hobby.  It has different meanings for different people based on their time and needs.  I am a casual re-loader who buys bulk when on sale whether it be loaded ammo, or components.  It's good to have a little bit of everything to ride the storms out.

WOT!; TLDR; FIFY

My .02cents.... If you reload to save money, then you probably got into the hobby for the wrong reasons.  Mainly, what ever you do save, you forfeit by shooting more - not necessarily a bad thing.

I've been reloading for well over 20, almost 25 years now. I still buy bulk ammo online when it's on good "fire" sales like Black Friday, 4th of July, etc. for just that purpose you speak of. Great cheap plinking ammo, and now you have some nice once-fired brass to toss into your stash bucket. Is it super quality brass; no. But I'm also not chasing down every piece of brass I fire like a OCD maniac at the range. If I can collect the majority of what I shoot, I'm happy.

Plus you always end up with other brass mixed in as well (whom ever shoots 9mm MAK and leaves their brass at the range, please punch yourself in the throat).

So buying plinking ammo is not a bad thing. However, when re-loading off-popular cartridges (6.5, 6.8, 300BLK, .308. .50, and most large hunting/wildcat calibers) where virgin brass starts running at ~$1 per brass case, and factory match loads run at a minimum $2+ each, you realize saving the brass and reloading starts to really be a game changer. Especially if running a suppressor. I simply won't reload 9mm unless I'm putting 147's through a can - it's not worth my time to re-load range ammo.  As you say, the few cents saved per round doesn't warrant the time invested. But I still save the cases and re-use to reload expensive ammo.

With all that being said, I learned at an early age, buy it cheap and stack it deep. I have a good stash of pre-manufactured bulk ammo, re-loaded match ammo, buckets of cleaned and resized /polished brass, jugs of appropriate powder, all caliber pills that I have dies for, and the gauntlet of primers.

Then I watched the panic of 2008....glad I was stocked. Then 2012 panic came around.....then the (sadly) never ending mass-shootings. Prices went from mild to wild. Even .22LR broke the double digit CPR for a while. Primers were unobtainium for many months along with powder. Factory ammo prices nearly doubled overnight and then people started panic buying (why?).  We are fortunate that prices are relatively low, but with every tragedy or administration change, the panic ensues. We never know what the future holds. I have heard so many rumors and watched attempted legislation to ban bulk purchases of ammunition or eliminating online sales all together. What if that day comes? Never say never.

It's good to have a good stock pile that you weren't forced to buy when everything was at a premium; as well as have the skillset and equipment to re-load should the day come when we can no longer buy online (tax free), cases at a time. So when you make the comment: it's not worth my time to re-load .223; then don't, but save the brass and reload some precision .223 rounds every now and then because the grass may not be so green down the road.

Reloading isn't an all or nothing hobby. It has different meanings for different people based on their time and needs. I am a casual re-loader who buys bulk when on sale whether it be loaded ammo, or components. It's good to have a little bit of everything to ride the storms out.

It seemed keith13b had something to say, so I reformatted it so I could read it and help others read it, too.  Turns out, he had some rational thoughts imbedded in a wall of text post.

Nicely done! Now that's readable

Nicely done.  Have been through multiple shortages, bans, legislatures, governors and presidents.  One governor was trying to regulate (effectively partial banning) reloading components.  During the last big shortage was still shooting while others stayed home.  Will, can and do reload bulk berdan 308, when necessary.  Add big bore revolvers to the list of cost effective reloading calibers.  It will be useful to know how to reload pistol jhp in the future, if not already.

While I'm getting down there on components (only about 3,500rds worth left) I bought huge 'back in the day' so I'm still loading 55grn pulled M193 5.56 for $81 per 1K, 62grn Hornady fmj for $119 per 1K, and even 68grn Hornday HPBT for $167 per 1K (all my LC and Winchester brass is free and I've got lots left still).  It will be a shock to buy new components but at the rate I'm using them up, I've got a bit over 2 yrs to go before I need to go for a club group buy again.

Probably wasting your time, seeing your options are endless in USA

For me being in Australia reloading is the only given to get the ammo I need at a reasonable cost. My match ammo is pretty unobtainable here. So reloading is the only option, Varmint ammo is easy to get factory and ok value wise if you buy bulk.

My apologizes for the rambling text.  Thanks for spacing the points out.  I hope it helps others.

It's times like now that people should be looking out for deals even though you don't need something.  Buying slowly in bulk for what ever you need is a good idea and helps avoid panic buying in general.  The OP should start stocking up on bulk .223 now if its cheaper to buy than re-load for him/her.  I can promise you this scenario will change.....soon.

Before you know it, they will be complaining about the price skyrocketing on factory ammo and crying a river of tears that they can't find primers.  Just about everything appears to be in stock at the moment; somewhere.  Start buying what you use - slowly and responsibly, while the getting is good.

It's a hobby to most of us and yes, us more 'seasoned' folks have more time to do it.  That said, if you do it just to save money and don't enjoy it, why bother?  Even though I save a ton over commercial ammo and produce quality ammo tuned to my specific platforms, if I didn't enjoy it, I sell all my stuff.  Life is too short to do something you don't like, to drink cheap booze, or to miss out on traveling the world (or what ever else excites you).

Let me put this way and something you need to think about..

I started reloading in 1983.. The late 80's early 90's i purchased thousands upon thousands of the midway 55gr fmj heads. I  believe they were made by Winchester... They were blasting ammo..

Well fast forward to when the clown was in the oval office and everyting went sky high..

I was still shooting no different than i did when i was prior..

I'm down to my last box of 1000 heads.. and used up almost all the powder and primers I stocked..

Needless to say the clown didnt impact me that much expect when Im in the process of replacing all of what i shot...

Purchase in bulk and save it.. One day you might be ahead of the game. Today your will break even or lose but prices will go up again and shortages will be had...

History will repeat itself because we dont learn from our past..

And the sick clowns are marching in the streets.

Well spoken.  It's a hobby.  I don't worry about the time or the expense.  I'd do it even if it cost me more than commercial ammo.  Then it would be a hobby like every other hobby I enjoy; it would cost me some $$ to enjoy it.  Luckily for me, handloading have saved me mega dollars in the 14 yrs since I started doing it.   So, I do something I like doing, that relaxes me, gives me a feeling of accomplishment, gives me something I can't get elsewhere, and it also saves me money?  Astounding!!!!

Seems simple to me.  If you enjoy it, do it.  If you don't, don't.

If you need more matching brass (I don't), buying new loaded lake city under a quarter is a good way to produce true once fired (in your rifle) lake city brass with same head stamps....and you get the enjoyment of emptying them.

The way I would look at that is it's like buying once fired same headstamp lake city brass for around 8 cents. ymmv

Reload, don't reload ... only you can determine if its "worth it" for you.    For me, reloading is "worth it".

Either way, now is a good time to buy it cheap and stack it deep imo.  Relatively speaking, sales on bulk (the only way to go imo) components have been easy to find the last couple years.    I would like to see powder get cheaper, but that "hope" hasn't stopped me from keeping keg inventories topped off.   (I will never never ever never ever get caught short true blue ever again)

Reloading is not a waste of time for me because I enjoy it/don't mind donating my time, I can make more accurate ammo than I can buy, and get to keep shooting cheap accurate ammo during scares.

What are you going to do when you will not be able to buy ammo ??
That could never happen

The cost of range quality ammo is only a few cents cheaper than factory.  If I was one of the unfortunate folks that were too young to retire I might feel differently, but at this point in my life I have the time, equipment and supplies to make my own.  Reloading beats chasing a little white ball around for 6000 yards.

I have recently had a major caliber consolidation. Now, my only oddball ammo is my 8mm Mauser, and my 7.5 Swiss. Otherwise my rifles come in .223, .308, or .30-06.  My handguns are 9mm except for my 1911 and my USPSA limited major gun.

By rights, I should only be reloading my .308 and .30-06 (garand loads), but I keep churning out .223 and 9mm.  It keeps me in practice pulling the handle on my SDB and my 550B. When we get our new house, I plan on buying another SDB and a 650.  The 650 will be a dedicated .223 press, and one SDB will be a dedicated 9mm press.  Who cares that I'm only saving $.03/rnd, I like the practice, and my son is starting to show interest in the "blue machines".