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Page Armory » M-16
Posted: 4/12/2022 11:35:08 PM EDT
I was perusing through gun broker, and came across this.
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/929558022




Does this still hold the value of a regular A2.......asking for a friend
I would shoot if I bought it, as it doesn't seem like "museum grade" to me
Link Posted: 4/13/2022 12:39:17 AM EDT
[#1]
They are certainly not uncommon based off my experience.

They don't hold the same value as a real A2 forging based receiver to me.

I would personally rather have an true original A1 that is marked "A1" and "Safe-Semi-Auto" than a A2 receiver based off an A1 forging that is marked Safe-Semi-Burst.
Link Posted: 4/13/2022 2:00:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: GPSIG] [#2]
Burst marked and A1 forging...I think that is pretty much the least desirable A2 option out there and I would value it the same -- for the purpose of shooting -- as an A1 or even a 614 which would both be exactly the same dimensionally.  There is something to be said for nice condition and everyone likes an A2 marking, but I think that "over 40k" valuation is optimistic.  I also think offering it as unfired along with an upper that has a chrome bolt carrier and wear on the ejection port cover is bound to invite some questions.  And maybe it is just me, but isn't the buffer tube castle nut on backwards and the backplate is a replacement setup for a sling attachment?  For that money I would buy a clean A1 and enjoy some savings.
Link Posted: 4/13/2022 4:21:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: akchef] [#3]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By GPSIG:
Burst marked and A1 forging...I think that is pretty much the least desirable A2 option out there and I would value it the same -- for the purpose of shooting -- as an A1 or even a 614 which would both be exactly the same dimensionally.  There is something to be said for nice condition and everyone likes an A2 marking, but I think that "over 40k" valuation is optimistic.  I also think offering it as unfired along with an upper that has a chrome bolt carrier and wear on the ejection port cover is bound to invite some questions.  And maybe it is just me, but isn't the buffer tube castle nut on backwards and the backplate is a replacement setup for a sling attachment?  For that money I would buy a clean A1 and enjoy some savings.
View Quote



Totally agree with the "least desirable" of the A2 configurations. But I think the chrome carrier is actually just the standard light parkerized one and that it's the lighting that is making it look shiny. And the wear on the ejection port cover appears to be a white lithium grease, not wear. And the guy has spread it everywhere. You can see remnants of it in a lot of the nooks and crannies in various areas of the gun
I would say, considering the lack of brass kisses on the lefty bump, that it probably hasn't been fired much but the gas tube, where it goes into the carrier key looks a little too discolored to be "unfired".
And you are correct about the castle nut and the sling swivel plate being not correct.
Most carbines (if they came from Colt configured as a carbine) had "auto" marked lowers, not "burst" markings. And where are the factory Colt assembly proof marks that should be stamped ahead of the ejection port?
If I were a betting man, I'd guess that rifle came from Colt in rifle configuration and was turned into a carbine later. Only a look at the form 4 (or a colt letter) will tell the truth of it.
Link Posted: 4/13/2022 10:01:54 AM EDT
[#4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By akchef:
...
If I were a betting man, I'd guess that rifle came from Colt in rifle configuration and was turned into a carbine later. Only a look at the form 4 (or a colt letter) will tell the truth of it.
View Quote

Unfortunately, Colt does not do "letters" on machine guns.  I believe that Colt even says so on their website.  I know they used to as I saw such an entry a few years ago when I was considering getting a "Colt letter" for the Python that I have.  Many have tried to get such a letter for their M16 - all have failed.

MHO, YMMV, etc.  Be well.
Link Posted: 4/13/2022 10:33:47 AM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By GPSIG:
Burst marked and A1 forging...I think that is pretty much the least desirable A2 option out there and I would value it the same -- for the purpose of shooting -- as an A1 or even a 614 which would both be exactly the same dimensionally.  There is something to be said for nice condition and everyone likes an A2 marking, but I think that "over 40k" valuation is optimistic.  I also think offering it as unfired along with an upper that has a chrome bolt carrier and wear on the ejection port cover is bound to invite some questions.  And maybe it is just me, but isn't the buffer tube castle nut on backwards and the backplate is a replacement setup for a sling attachment?  For that money I would buy a clean A1 and enjoy some savings.
View Quote


LOL, did not look at it that close, the castle nut faux pa is hysterical
Link Posted: 4/14/2022 3:58:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: GPSIG] [#6]
With a close second look, I believe @akchef is right on all points.
Link Posted: 4/14/2022 3:32:47 PM EDT
[#7]
If you are in the market for a "real" A2 carbine, there are, unfortunately, a lot of variations between individual examples so you have to judge each one as you find it.
As an example, even if the lower is marked "auto" instead of "burst" and it's made on a true A2 forging, it probably left the factory with either a A1 or a C7 type upper as well as a vinyl covered aluminum stock on a 2 position buffer tube.
Link Posted: 4/15/2022 4:59:48 AM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By jbntex:

They are certainly not uncommon based off my experience.

They don't hold the same value as a real A2 forging based receiver to me.

I would personally rather have an true original A1 that is marked "A1" and "Safe-Semi-Auto" than a A2 receiver based off an A1 forging that is marked Safe-Semi-Burst.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By jbntex:

They are certainly not uncommon based off my experience.

They don't hold the same value as a real A2 forging based receiver to me.

I would personally rather have an true original A1 that is marked "A1" and "Safe-Semi-Auto" than a A2 receiver based off an A1 forging that is marked Safe-Semi-Burst.




Originally Posted By GPSIG:
Burst marked and A1 forging...I think that is pretty much the least desirable A2 option out there and I would value it the same -- for the purpose of shooting -- as an A1 or even a 614 which would both be exactly the same dimensionally.  There is something to be said for nice condition and everyone likes an A2 marking, but I think that "over 40k" valuation is optimistic.  I also think offering it as unfired along with an upper that has a chrome bolt carrier and wear on the ejection port cover is bound to invite some questions.  And maybe it is just me, but isn't the buffer tube castle nut on backwards and the backplate is a replacement setup for a sling attachment?  For that money I would buy a clean A1 and enjoy some savings.





Originally Posted By akchef:
Totally agree with the "least desirable" of the A2 configurations. But I think the chrome carrier is actually just the standard light parkerized one and that it's the lighting that is making it look shiny. And the wear on the ejection port cover appears to be a white lithium grease, not wear. And the guy has spread it everywhere. You can see remnants of it in a lot of the nooks and crannies in various areas of the gun
I would say, considering the lack of brass kisses on the lefty bump, that it probably hasn't been fired much but the gas tube, where it goes into the carrier key looks a little too discolored to be "unfired".
And you are correct about the castle nut and the sling swivel plate being not correct.
Most carbines (if they came from Colt configured as a carbine) had "auto" marked lowers, not "burst" markings. And where are the factory Colt assembly proof marks that should be stamped ahead of the ejection port?
If I were a betting man, I'd guess that rifle came from Colt in rifle configuration and was turned into a carbine later. Only a look at the form 4 (or a colt letter) will tell the truth of it.



These three posts nailed it.

Link Posted: 4/15/2022 6:48:09 AM EDT
[#9]
$45k is too much. I'd want a real A2 lower for that much money.
Link Posted: 4/15/2022 3:40:05 PM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By akchef:
If you are in the market for a "real" A2 carbine, there are, unfortunately, a lot of variations between individual examples so you have to judge each one as you find it.
As an example, even if the lower is marked "auto" instead of "burst" and it's made on a true A2 forging, it probably left the factory with either a A1 or a C7 type upper as well as a vinyl covered aluminum stock on a 2 position buffer tube.
View Quote


I have that exact A2, marked auto.
Link Posted: 7/24/2022 8:54:57 PM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By jbntex:

They are certainly not uncommon based off my experience.

They don't hold the same value as a real A2 forging based receiver to me.

I would personally rather have an true original A1 that is marked "A1" and "Safe-Semi-Auto" than a A2 receiver based off an A1 forging that is marked Safe-Semi-Burst.
View Quote


Same.

I'm 6 months deep with a form 4....hopefully I'll have it Jan 2022...frickn ATF
Page Armory » M-16
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