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Posted: 8/16/2019 4:32:35 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It takes approximately 1-2 minutes to change from one side to the other. There’s a video up on the Facebook group. Adam Litke also has a video up where he had a first time tavor 7 shooter (2nd time scar 17 shooter) shoot them side by side from 100-300 yards with eagle eye .5 moa guarantee match ammo. The Tavor 7 topped out at 1.5moa the scar 17 at 1.67 moa I'm not suggesting it's a bad design or that it won't work. Only that the ejection port on a bullpup is a limitation in certain circumstances. I would think bullpup designers in particular would've taken notice of the case switching feature on the ARX & try to emulate it in some fashion. Guess not. |
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Posted: 8/16/2019 10:14:02 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There's an old SOF (I think) interview with a former IRA guy discussing how they would set up ambushes on certain sides of the street to take advantage of the limitation imposed by the R side ejection of the SA80 (bullpup), wherein the UK soldiers couldn't take cover in door ways on the left side of the street due to that. Probably would've been kind of nice to be able to switch ejection side on the fly. Then again, the SA80 isn't the epitome of bullpup design. I'm not suggesting it's a bad design or that it won't work. Only that the ejection port on a bullpup is a limitation in certain circumstances. I would think bullpup designers in particular would've taken notice of the case switching feature on the ARX & try to emulate it in some fashion. Guess not. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: It takes approximately 1-2 minutes to change from one side to the other. There’s a video up on the Facebook group. Adam Litke also has a video up where he had a first time tavor 7 shooter (2nd time scar 17 shooter) shoot them side by side from 100-300 yards with eagle eye .5 moa guarantee match ammo. The Tavor 7 topped out at 1.5moa the scar 17 at 1.67 moa I'm not suggesting it's a bad design or that it won't work. Only that the ejection port on a bullpup is a limitation in certain circumstances. I would think bullpup designers in particular would've taken notice of the case switching feature on the ARX & try to emulate it in some fashion. Guess not. |
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Posted: 8/16/2019 10:38:36 AM EDT
[#3]
Whoo Hoo
 . LGS called and said my Tavor 7 should be in the middle of next week.
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Posted: 8/16/2019 10:44:08 AM EDT
[#4]
I work for a IWI distributor. We received our first batch of IWI Tavor 7's yesterday and they are shipping out to dealers today.
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Posted: 8/16/2019 1:53:18 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I work for a IWI distributor. We received our first batch of IWI Tavor 7's yesterday and they are shipping out to dealers today. |
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Posted: 8/16/2019 3:42:01 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Any leads on dealers with a decent price? Everywhere I've seen it show up so far was $1932 on the dot, which makes me wonder if it's being price controlled or something. |
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Posted: 8/16/2019 6:07:27 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I feel like no matter how simple the process is, short of literally maybe hitting a single button, switching ejection port sides in the middle of a firefight is one of the last things anyone would or should ever do. |
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Posted: 8/16/2019 6:44:04 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The location of the ejection port presents the single biggest tactical weakness of the bullpup configuration. If IWI could've implemented switchable ejection similar to the Beretta ARX, I would be all over this rifle. As it is, having to pull the carrier & rotate & reinsert the bolt is only slightly less cumbersome than the 5.56 Tavor series. I'm a little surprised they didn't go the extra mile on th ou s particular feature. |
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Posted: 8/16/2019 8:51:13 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The ARX has open receiver ejection ports on both sides and a conventional stock. That obviously won’t work well on a bullpup where your face is laying against on side of the receiver. The way to make it work on a bullpup is forward ejection like the FS2000 and RFB, or downward ejection like the RDB, but either would be a significant deviation from the Tavor design. At least IWI made the Tavor 7 convertible as it comes without having to buy a separate left hand bolt, which the SAR and X95 require. I didn’t even realize that until you said it. Took me a little bit to find someone to trade bolts with me when I bought a left handed tavor SAR. |
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Posted: 8/16/2019 9:11:19 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Go back & reread the scenario I related, then ask yourself why you posted a nonsequitor reply. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: I feel like no matter how simple the process is, short of literally maybe hitting a single button, switching ejection port sides in the middle of a firefight is one of the last things anyone would or should ever do. The few times I’ve had to shoot an issued M4 from strong side cover, I just swapped shoulders and made it work. I could see how doing that with a bullpup would be a pain in the ass. Still, even if swapping ejection was easily available to me, I doubt I’d have messed with it. If someone else would have, I see why they would, and more power to them I guess. The ARX has a very nifty ejection switch design, and I’d rather more rifles be more capable of doing more things with a greater ease. I think we can agree on that. I wish more bullpups circumvented the whole issue by ejecting downward like the P90 or forward like the F2000, but maybe those designs are less desirable for other reasons I’m not privy to.
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Posted: 8/16/2019 9:13:33 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The ARX has open receiver ejection ports on both sides and a conventional stock. That obviously won’t work well on a bullpup where your face is laying against on side of the receiver. The way to make it work on a bullpup is forward ejection like the FS2000 and RFB, or downward ejection like the RDB, but either would be a significant deviation from the Tavor design. At least IWI made the Tavor 7 convertible as it comes without having to buy a separate left hand bolt, which the SAR and X95 require. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The location of the ejection port presents the single biggest tactical weakness of the bullpup configuration. If IWI could've implemented switchable ejection similar to the Beretta ARX, I would be all over this rifle. As it is, having to pull the carrier & rotate & reinsert the bolt is only slightly less cumbersome than the 5.56 Tavor series. I'm a little surprised they didn't go the extra mile on th ou s particular feature. |
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Posted: 8/16/2019 11:16:56 PM EDT
[#12]
I want to correct my earlier post.
It was 1.5 MOA with perfecta BALL ammo, the match ammo was slightly better. |
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Posted: 8/17/2019 12:00:24 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I want to correct my earlier post. It was 1.5 MOA with perfecta BALL ammo, the match ammo was slightly better. |
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Posted: 8/17/2019 1:53:22 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The ARX has open receiver ejection ports on both sides and a conventional stock. That obviously won’t work well on a bullpup where your face is laying against on side of the receiver. The way to make it work on a bullpup is forward ejection like the FS2000 and RFB, or downward ejection like the RDB, but either would be a significant deviation from the Tavor design. At least IWI made the Tavor 7 convertible as it comes without having to buy a separate left hand bolt, which the SAR and X95 require. The SOF article scenario I related illustrates the potential issue. A design feature that limits or restricts use in some way should be addressed, if it can be. |
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Posted: 8/17/2019 1:57:41 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I understood what you said, I just don’t think it’s particularly relevant or an important quality. You’re welcome to disagree with that, and presumably if you posted it, you do. I feel that any way of switching the ejection side is still something that’ll be done in a relaxed setting, and done to accommodate left hand shooters; not something that would ever be done on the fly in combat (which is why I am assuming you mention your anecdote about SA-80 ambushes). Thus, as long as it’s doable at the user level and preferably without tools, I don’t see a big difference between how that swap is done either way. The few times I’ve had to shoot an issued M4 from strong side cover, I just swapped shoulders and made it work. I could see how doing that with a bullpup would be a pain in the ass. Still, even if swapping ejection was easily available to me, I doubt I’d have messed with it. If someone else would have, I see why they would, and more power to them I guess. The ARX has a very nifty ejection switch design, and I’d rather more rifles be more capable of doing more things with a greater ease. I think we can agree on that. I wish more bullpups circumvented the whole issue by ejecting downward like the P90 or forward like the F2000, but maybe those designs are less desirable for other reasons I’m not privy to. |
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Posted: 8/17/2019 6:15:29 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
1.5 with ball is impressive..... Should be Sub MOA with Match ammo Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I want to correct my earlier post. It was 1.5 MOA with perfecta BALL ammo, the match ammo was slightly better. I used to do a lot of in the 80s and 90s, very early 2000s. This rifle should be amazing. |
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Posted: 8/17/2019 9:47:12 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 1.5 with ball is impressive..... Should be Sub MOA with Match ammo 
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Posted: 8/17/2019 7:19:57 PM EDT
[#18]
Selling my SCAR 16 to fund a Tavor 7...
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Posted: 8/17/2019 7:20:28 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you want Sub MOA, get a DT MDR. Oh, wait......... |
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Posted: 8/17/2019 8:20:00 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Selling my SCAR 16 to fund a Tavor 7... |
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Posted: 8/17/2019 8:48:38 PM EDT
[#21]
Grabbed mine!
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Posted: 8/18/2019 1:34:01 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That’s a step up. I’ve really wanted a scar 16/17 but the fact you can’t suppress them without them breaking themself’s is a huge turn off. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Selling my SCAR 16 to fund a Tavor 7... Tons suppress their 16’s and 17’s |
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Posted: 8/18/2019 1:48:41 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
? Tons suppress their 16’s and 17’s Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Selling my SCAR 16 to fund a Tavor 7... Tons suppress their 16’s and 17’s |
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Posted: 8/18/2019 2:30:09 PM EDT
[#24]
Well, I was considering selling my SCAR 17 to buy a Bren 2 BR, but seeing as how guns will probably be completely illegal before the BR comes out, I think I might sell the SCAR now and go for a Tavor 7.
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Posted: 8/18/2019 3:33:10 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Also tons of threads about their rifles getting bunch of micro fracture’s and FN not warranting them Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Selling my SCAR 16 to fund a Tavor 7... Tons suppress their 16’s and 17’s Either way, it has adjustable gas jets, one can gas the SCAR however much they want, if anything they’re more suppressable than a lot of alternatives. |
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Posted: 8/18/2019 6:03:43 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I understood this to be an issue with improperly treated parts though, not anything inherently wrong with suppressing them. FN may or may not want to warranty them if altered from OEM, they seem a bit behind the times like that. If I were to send a SCAR in, I’d definitely err on the side of caution and return it to OEM first. Either way, it has adjustable gas jets, one can gas the SCAR however much they want, if anything they’re more suppressable than a lot of alternatives. The Tavor 7 is designed with being suppressed in mind. |
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Posted: 8/18/2019 7:22:13 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's the problem. They consider attaching a suppressor as "altered from OEM", look for signs of suppressor use, and if they find it they deny the warranty. Which is obscene on a 3k gun. The Tavor 7 is designed with being suppressed in mind. I don’t think it’s accurate to say the SCAR can’t be shot suppressed without breaking, especially given they have adjustable gas plugs that allow for fine tuning. If anything they’re above average. Plus military 17’s and 20’s are issued with suppressors and mounts. The problem is more what happens *if* they break after being suppressed. |
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Posted: 8/18/2019 8:49:06 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do they? I realize that’s skirting the issue of a dumb warranty policy and not addressing any mechanical issues, but I have to think that putting it back to OEM would mitigate most of these issues. I don’t think it’s accurate to say the SCAR can’t be shot suppressed without breaking, especially given they have adjustable gas plugs that allow for fine tuning. If anything they’re above average. Plus military 17’s and 20’s are issued with suppressors and mounts. The problem is more what happens *if* they break after being suppressed. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: That's the problem. They consider attaching a suppressor as "altered from OEM", look for signs of suppressor use, and if they find it they deny the warranty. Which is obscene on a 3k gun. The Tavor 7 is designed with being suppressed in mind. I don’t think it’s accurate to say the SCAR can’t be shot suppressed without breaking, especially given they have adjustable gas plugs that allow for fine tuning. If anything they’re above average. Plus military 17’s and 20’s are issued with suppressors and mounts. The problem is more what happens *if* they break after being suppressed. Out of itself. |
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Posted: 8/18/2019 9:34:07 PM EDT
[#29]
Military doesnt care if they beat themselves to death. They just buy another with the near endless funds.
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Posted: 8/18/2019 10:02:52 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Military doesnt care if they beat themselves to death. They just buy another with the near endless funds. |
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Posted: 8/19/2019 12:27:46 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I’ve had a scar 17 on my short list for awhile. Seems it’s not “if” it breaks from being suppressed. It’s “when” it breaks. The gun just beats the shit Out of itself. ETA I realize this whole thing is not discussing the T7. I’m glad that rifles like the T7 increasingly use gas blocks with multiple preset settings, and that’s a big step in the right direction relative to traditional ARs and AKs. I’m also assuming IWI is more aftermarket friendly than FN. I’m hoping to hold out for an FDE 7, but if I saw a deal I doubt I could hold out. At least initially, it seems like they’ve done a solid initial rollout and I hope no issues arise later on. Hopefully waiting for the FDE lets any possible issues be identified. 
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Posted: 8/19/2019 1:34:36 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’m not sure how, at least if one uses the swappable gas plugs to adjust for the added backpressure. Added backpressure prematurely damaging parts is an issue on any overgassed rifle, it’s not like the SCAR is unique in that. At least the SCAR has a solution built in, even if it’s discouraged by the FN warranty (which is lame). ETA I realize this whole thing is not discussing the T7. I’m glad that rifles like the T7 increasingly use gas blocks with multiple preset settings, and that’s a big step in the right direction relative to traditional ARs and AKs. I’m also assuming IWI is more aftermarket friendly than FN. I’m hoping to hold out for an FDE 7, but if I saw a deal I doubt I could hold out. At least initially, it seems like they’ve done a solid initial rollout and I hope no issues arise later on. Hopefully waiting for the FDE lets any possible issues be identified. Or OD green. |
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Posted: 8/19/2019 1:42:30 AM EDT
[#33]
I've got a SAR in FDE and an X95 in OD. So the 7 is black.
My Tavor family. |
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Posted: 8/19/2019 1:44:28 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That’s exactly my plan. Or OD green. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: I’m not sure how, at least if one uses the swappable gas plugs to adjust for the added backpressure. Added backpressure prematurely damaging parts is an issue on any overgassed rifle, it’s not like the SCAR is unique in that. At least the SCAR has a solution built in, even if it’s discouraged by the FN warranty (which is lame). ETA I realize this whole thing is not discussing the T7. I’m glad that rifles like the T7 increasingly use gas blocks with multiple preset settings, and that’s a big step in the right direction relative to traditional ARs and AKs. I’m also assuming IWI is more aftermarket friendly than FN. I’m hoping to hold out for an FDE 7, but if I saw a deal I doubt I could hold out. At least initially, it seems like they’ve done a solid initial rollout and I hope no issues arise later on. Hopefully waiting for the FDE lets any possible issues be identified. Or OD green. I had an OD green Arsenal SLR101s as well. I love the OD green stuff for some reason. It'll be a couple of years most likely either way. I've got saving up to do. |
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Posted: 8/19/2019 2:22:42 PM EDT
[#35]
My preference is OD green as well, my inhibitions to purchasing something new are automatically lowered when it is available in green.
My SAR is green, but for the 7, it'll be a race between finding FDE or green first. I am hoping this first batch does well! |
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Posted: 8/20/2019 1:39:46 PM EDT
[#36]
Been watching this thread for a while. Really looking forward to reviews of it. I’m thinking of getting one. Always wanted a bullpup 308 but never like the Kel Tec.
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Posted: 8/20/2019 1:44:10 PM EDT
[#37]
I want a bull pup and I want a 308. I'm torn on the T7 or perhaps get a x95 and build an AR10. I guess I'll wait for the review, too.
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Posted: 8/20/2019 5:05:31 PM EDT
[#38]
Back to the original topic, where is the Tavor 7? The answer is in my house
Although bullpups are generally heavy to the rear, the balance doesn’t seem too bad on the Tavor 7. Seems a bit better balanced than my SAR or X95. Trigger seems decent, more like the X95 than the original SAR. Not sure about the buttpad, though. Very thin checkered hard plastic. Strange there is a much thicker rubber buttpad on the previous 5.56 guns than on the heavier 7.62. Unfortunately it will be a while before I can shoot it, but at least it’s here and have some time to select an optic. 
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Posted: 8/20/2019 5:54:28 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Back to the original topic, where is the Tavor 7? The answer is in my house
Although bullpups are generally heavy to the rear, the balance doesn’t seem too bad on the Tavor 7. Seems a bit better balanced than my SAR or X95. Trigger seems decent, more like the X95 than the original SAR. Not sure about the buttpad, though. Very thin checkered hard plastic. Strange there is a much thicker rubber buttpad on the previous 5.56 guns than on the heavier 7.62. Unfortunately it will be a while before I can shoot it, but at least it’s here and have some time to select an optic. https://i.imgur.com/b2imkGe.jpg |
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Posted: 8/20/2019 6:33:50 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
Back to the original topic, where is the Tavor 7? The answer is in my house
Although bullpups are generally heavy to the rear, the balance doesn’t seem too bad on the Tavor 7. Seems a bit better balanced than my SAR or X95. Trigger seems decent, more like the X95 than the original SAR. Not sure about the buttpad, though. Very thin checkered hard plastic. Strange there is a much thicker rubber buttpad on the previous 5.56 guns than on the heavier 7.62. Unfortunately it will be a while before I can shoot it, but at least it’s here and have some time to select an optic. https://i.imgur.com/b2imkGe.jpg |
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Posted: 8/20/2019 6:57:45 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Whats that lock behind the grip? |
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Posted: 8/20/2019 6:58:48 PM EDT
[#42]
Looks like a barrel lock to me. Like on the x95 and tavor. Just a different location and other side.
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Posted: 8/20/2019 6:59:53 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It’s the barrel lock. |
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Posted: 8/20/2019 7:13:51 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
2.3 MOA with M80 or Federal Match Gold 168gr, its a big difference... |
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Posted: 8/20/2019 8:28:42 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 2.3 huh. Are they advertising it as "2.3"? Seems to me that the 0.3 moa is a ploy to not say it's "about" 2.5 moa or "less than" 2.5 moa. Is a 2.5 moa semi auto .308 really that bad of a sell? Not to me. You could say it's more accurate than a FAL or G3 and I'd still buy it. |
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Posted: 8/20/2019 8:29:30 PM EDT
[#46]
The desire is still strong.
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Posted: 8/20/2019 8:54:22 PM EDT
[#47]
Is the MOA claim for a 3, 5, or 10 shot group?
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Posted: 8/20/2019 8:58:22 PM EDT
[#48]
Wll there be a 20" version?
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Posted: 8/20/2019 9:03:25 PM EDT
[#49]
I think the only thing thats really keeping my eagerness to pick one up in check is the thought that theyll just turn around and release a Tavor 7 gen 2 or whatever after all the beta testers that paid $2k for the privilege discover flaws in the rifle.
I know they have plenty of experience with bullpups and everything... but still. It seems like that's how things happen now. |
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Posted: 8/20/2019 9:13:55 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think the only thing thats really keeping my eagerness to pick one up in check is the thought that theyll just turn around and release a Tavor 7 gen 2 or whatever after all the beta testers that paid $2k for the privilege discover flaws in the rifle. I know they have plenty of experience with bullpups and everything... but still. It seems like that's how things happen now. From what i've read they've been running these pretty hard in testing. |
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