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Posted: 5/28/2020 9:40:01 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’m pointing out the fact you called my coworkers credibility into question, I think missed my point entirely. Quote HistoryQuoted: I’m pointing out the fact you called my coworkers credibility into question, I think missed my point entirely. I questioned him bringing up people who are not here to weigh in one way or the other as “proof” his point of view is somehow superior to mine. That’s an extremely lazy way to debate in my opinion. Quoted: At TNVC we are a team and support each other, collectively we have a vast knowledge base to fall back on based on actual end user experience both mil/LE and hunting, we are also end users just like our customers. And yet TNVC has made several gaffes here in this forum. Is the official TNVC stance still that the ATPIAL C is better than a full powered PEQ 15? Because at one point in time that claim was made. I have more examples if you like. I’m not here to trash your brand though. Everyone makes mistakes and l don’t hold you to a higher standard than anyone else. But I won’t take being shouted down by multiple people from the same company echoing each other because my opinion differs from theirs. Food for thought, ultimately I’m way more likely to be unbiased, than you or any industry insider will be. Quoted: I have have yet to experience the issue you are pointing out and I probably have the largest collection of MAWLs in private hands and have looked at every single one of mine and none of them experience this with any NV system I own and I own more than your average rifle platoon in the US Army. Essentially I’m calling into question your credibility when it comes to the MAWL. True, my sample size is probably much smaller than yours. My sample size is 3, and all of them performed the same. But seeing as how you have such a massive collection, I’m in the market to borrow one for a picture series. Know anyone with multiple MAWL units that could spare one for about a week? I have excellent EE feedback  |
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Posted: 5/28/2020 9:56:15 AM EDT
[#2]
We conduct AAR's with all of our students at Greenline and TNVC classes, and give feedback to manufacturers about issues that pop up if they pop up. You dismissing that as "not proof" is totally up to you but pretty childish IMO.
In terms of legality the ATPIAL C is still a better buy that a PEQ15, capability wise not so much. You being way more unbiased is also a pretty subjective claim. I rent my lasers out at classes and NV fight club events, if you'd like to attend and maybe get a different take on the MAWL I welcome you to sign up and utilize my gear. Again I have been running MAWLS for about 4 years now and not once had anyone complain about the dot washing out within the illuminator in any mode. Maybe your focus was off on your NV or your emitter was dirty/occluded. |
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Posted: 5/28/2020 10:09:20 AM EDT
[#3]
I find someone interrupting a conversation two people were having in line with how my 6 year old behaves. Proof is in the pudding though and I’m happy to take pics of exactly what I’m talking about. No interest in lending me one I take it....whatever, I’ll find one
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Posted: 5/28/2020 10:11:03 AM EDT
[#4]
3rd party here checking in that’s looked at and photographed the MAWL beams a few times now.
If you’re using it in long range mode and shining it against a white wall 10ft away... the dot might wash out. But at “long range” distances against reasonable targets the civi-powered aiming dot has been perfectly legible for me. It’s still not a great illuminator for extended ranges though, unless it’s a super super dark night. Gotta go with higher power focusable units for long clipon use. The differences between the C1+ and DA are also surprisingly small. Illuminators almost identical and aiming dots just lose the lightsaber ability (which I find no use for, myself). |
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Posted: 5/28/2020 10:11:45 AM EDT
[#5]
Start by including "to be" in your infinitives.
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Posted: 5/28/2020 10:23:55 AM EDT
[#6]
Farther than 10 feet away, but correct. It bothered me the most transitioning from a target at distance to one closer in. I noticed the dot washed out up to 50 feet or so. Farther out the flood had a chance to actually spill, and it wasn’t as big of a issue.
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Posted: 5/28/2020 10:28:42 AM EDT
[#7]
You know you can switch modes to low/med/high power on the fly and use the alt B as a low powered alternative right?
Is your range covered in white drywall or something? |
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Posted: 5/28/2020 10:29:36 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Farther than 10 feet away, but correct. It bothered me the most transitioning from a target at distance to one closer in. I noticed the dot washed out up to 50 feet or so. Farther out the flood had a chance to actually spill, and it wasn’t as big of a issue. That’s the advantage of their unique mode switching system. Quick slide back to the rear and you’re in near mode. Way way faster than most units where you’re having to dial a rotary focus knob or flip down a diffusion cap. |
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Posted: 5/28/2020 10:34:19 AM EDT
[#9]
@DevilWillCry
You’re more than free to state your opinion whenever you get the opportunity. You do—and I am equally free to follow up when I see it with my own opinion that my experiences have been different. Since I’ve acknowledged here and elsewhere that it’s a subjective opinion, feedback from others seems relevant, as is the context of those opinions. You also assume much to say that those that have taken our classes and seen the MAWL versus other laser systems in action “aren’t here,” many are. You’ve also given your opinions on Class IIIB, otherwise known as “Restricted” lasers many times in the past—which again, is fine, you’re welcome to do so, as am I to point out the possible pitfalls of purchasing “Gray Market” items. My goal is to educate the community and provide as much information as possible. Whether you agree or disagree with what we do, our participation on this forum could be construed in some ways as free, 24/7 tech support to anyone who wants it, whether or not they’re a customer, and we known damn well that many people who read here will never end up being a customer of ours. You defend jealously your own right to state your opinion whenever you get the chance to (a right no one has challenged), yet get upset when I give a counter opinion, specifically acknowledging that it can be subjective, and that “I’ve never felt“ [emphasis added] that that was the case. The information is out there, and I don’t expect you to stop weighing in, so I will weigh in as well whenever an opinion I disagree with is expressed. Readers can choose or not choose to assign weight and credibility to opinions they read on the internet as they wish. ~Augee |
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Posted: 5/28/2020 10:35:02 AM EDT
[#10]
I take it the dot wash out is a non issue on the FP mawl?
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Posted: 5/28/2020 10:40:36 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Farther than 10 feet away, but correct. It bothered me the most transitioning from a target at distance to one closer in. I noticed the dot washed out up to 50 feet or so. Farther out the flood had a chance to actually spill, and it wasn’t as big of a issue. I've seen the same on my MAWL C1+ but it was against a light background out to @ the same distance although it wasn't totally washed out just a bit overpowered by the illuminator. |
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Posted: 5/28/2020 10:40:50 AM EDT
[#12]
Its not an issue on the C1+ or the FP MAWL.
Also I found @devilwillcry's alternate account and MAWL Review. This is a real gem |
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Posted: 5/28/2020 10:41:21 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I take it the dot wash out is a non issue on the FP mawl? Target washout becomes the issue there - much tougher to get a precise aiming point when pumping that much juice downrange and having your tubes deal with all that concentrated energy. I’m sure Sam has more experience with his collection though. I’ve just side by sided them 3 or 4 times over the years. |
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Posted: 5/28/2020 10:42:31 AM EDT
[#14]
Yes I’m aware and used the on the fly power setting. And It’s much faster than the alternatives. It’s also the thing I liked best about the MAWL. It’s still not as fast or as easy as using the setting you already have the unit on to take the shot. Also the Alt power mode for the high setting is laser only, no illuminator
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Posted: 5/28/2020 10:43:45 AM EDT
[#15]
It would appear Sam and I are on the same commenting schedule. I’ll just let him take over and back out. Basically +1 to whatever he says though - he definitely speaks from hands on experience.
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Posted: 5/28/2020 10:44:53 AM EDT
[#16]
I don’t have a Alt, sight staff can verify that’s not me.
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Posted: 5/28/2020 10:47:23 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We conduct AAR's with all of our students at Greenline and TNVC classes, and give feedback to manufacturers about issues that pop up if they pop up. You dismissing that as "not proof" is totally up to you but pretty childish IMO. In terms of legality the ATPIAL C is still a better buy that a PEQ15, capability wise not so much. You being way more unbiased is also a pretty subjective claim. I rent my lasers out at classes and NV fight club events, if you'd like to attend and maybe get a different take on the MAWL I welcome you to sign up and utilize my gear. Again I have been running MAWLS for about 4 years now and not once had anyone complain about the dot washing out within the illuminator in any mode. Maybe your focus was off on your NV or your emitter was dirty/occluded. I have some questions about "something I read on the internet". Someone on another forum said they have a MAWL, and... -Zero adjustments are friction, not clicks? -The manual says it "may need to shoot in/shift and need multiple zero sessions" or something? Are they not factual or currently factual, or is a $2500 laser really like a MKII Leupold crossed with an ACOG!? Part of why I like the idea of the MAWL is I perceive that it offers me a very small/light way of making my weapon dual role, without me having to sacrifice the 1.70" mounted NX8 I like so much. Kindof a "bolt this on and go do night stuff" solution vs. messing with my whole configuration. |
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Posted: 5/28/2020 10:55:49 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have some questions about "something I read on the internet". Someone on another forum said they have a MAWL, and... -Zero adjustments are friction, not clicks? -The manual says it "may need to shoot in/shift and need multiple zero sessions" or something? Are they not factual or currently factual, or is a $2500 laser really like a MKII Leupold crossed with an ACOG!? Part of why I like the idea of the MAWL is I perceive that it offers me a very small/light way of making my weapon dual role, without me having to sacrifice the 1.70" mounted NX8 I like so much. Kindof a "bolt this on and go do night stuff" solution vs. messing with my whole configuration. The new updated Gen2 Laser head has "clicks" the older head was just friction, it was never a big deal to me either way as they hold zero regardless. Yes when you first zero the laser it will walk on you and you need to let the windage and elevation adjustments "settle", this is a right out of the box condition and if you shoot 5 or 6 5-round groups and tweak your zero after every group the unit will have settled into place. Most lasers are a small/light way of making a rifle dual role, the ATPIAL is about 2 oz lighter than a MAWL, so its not the lightest weight option but it is certainly the best option. And as my cohort Augee has brought up multiple times not product is perfect, its just that right now in time and space the MAWL is the closest to perfection out of all the offerings on the market and I do mean all of the offerings including Class3B units. |
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Posted: 5/28/2020 10:57:38 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You’ve also given your opinions on Class IIIB, otherwise known as “Restricted” lasers many times in the past—which again, is fine, you’re welcome to do so, as am I to point out the possible pitfalls of purchasing “Gray Market” items. ~Augee Correct. I’m comparing the MAWL C to full power units. I know it’s not fair, but from a buyers perspective both options exist and should be explained and explored. The MAWL is the best class 1 unit available but it still has limitations. The question I’m raising is why settle when I can go see Ivan, pay 1/3rd the price, and have no compromises? |
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Posted: 5/28/2020 11:00:48 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Correct. I’m comparing the MAWL C to full power units. I know it’s not fair, but from a buyers perspective both options exist and should be explained and explored. The MAWL is the best class 1 unit available but it still has limitations. The question I’m raising is why settle when I can go see Ivan, pay 1/3rd the price, and have no compromises? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You’ve also given your opinions on Class IIIB, otherwise known as “Restricted” lasers many times in the past—which again, is fine, you’re welcome to do so, as am I to point out the possible pitfalls of purchasing “Gray Market” items. ~Augee Correct. I’m comparing the MAWL C to full power units. I know it’s not fair, but from a buyers perspective both options exist and should be explained and explored. The MAWL is the best class 1 unit available but it still has limitations. The question I’m raising is why settle when I can go see Ivan, pay 1/3rd the price, and have no compromises? Exactly. For that amount of coin I’d buy a FP unit. Does anyone know if the neutered civilian version of the mawl is being fielded by our military forces? |
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Posted: 5/28/2020 11:07:31 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The new updated Gen2 Laser head has "clicks" the older head was just friction, it was never a big deal to me either way as they hold zero regardless. Yes when you first zero the laser it will walk on you and you need to let the windage and elevation adjustments "settle", this is a right out of the box condition and if you shoot 5 or 6 5-round groups and tweak your zero after every group the unit will have settled into place. Most lasers are a small/light way of making a rifle dual role, the ATPIAL is about 2 oz lighter than a MAWL, so its not the lightest weight option but it is certainly the best option. And as my cohort Augee has brought up multiple times not product is perfect, its just that right now in time and space the MAWL is the closest to perfection out of all the offerings on the market and I do mean all of the offerings including Class3B units. So once the MAWL has "settled" out of the box, it's G2G, and no-more settling is necessary for the life of the unit unless it sustains an impact or something? After initial settling, you dial, and get what you dial, and it holds? Also...while you're in the thread...Crye Nightcap...good/bad? I plan on running a minimal of gear, not a ton of patches and helmet IR and battery packs and all that. Just a counterweight and my device. Is the Crye a good way to save a few hundo, or a good way to get frustrated trying to "make it work" for you like what you SHOULD have gotten? |
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Posted: 5/28/2020 11:08:26 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Exactly. For that amount of coin I’d buy a FP unit. Does anyone know if the neutered civilian version of the mawl is being fielded by our military forces? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: You’ve also given your opinions on Class IIIB, otherwise known as “Restricted” lasers many times in the past—which again, is fine, you’re welcome to do so, as am I to point out the possible pitfalls of purchasing “Gray Market” items. ~Augee Correct. I’m comparing the MAWL C to full power units. I know it’s not fair, but from a buyers perspective both options exist and should be explained and explored. The MAWL is the best class 1 unit available but it still has limitations. The question I’m raising is why settle when I can go see Ivan, pay 1/3rd the price, and have no compromises? Exactly. For that amount of coin I’d buy a FP unit. Does anyone know if the neutered civilian version of the mawl is being fielded by our military forces? First off, you aren't going to find a FP unit in the price range of a MAWL other than a PEQ-15, and the C1+ still outperforms a -15. An LA5 is going to run you over $3500, and if you can find an NGAL/RAID X its going to be double what a MAWL is. the X-1 which is a Class 3 B laser is being fielded by our military, why would they utilize a low powered variant. |
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Posted: 5/28/2020 11:25:00 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: First off, you aren't going to find a FP unit in the price range of a MAWL other than a PEQ-15, and the C1+ still outperforms a -15. An LA5 is going to run you over $3500, and if you can find an NGAL/RAID X its going to be double wha t MAWL is. the X-1 which is a Class 3 B laser is being fielded by our military, why would they utilize a low powered variant. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: You’ve also given your opinions on Class IIIB, otherwise known as “Restricted” lasers many times in the past—which again, is fine, you’re welcome to do so, as am I to point out the possible pitfalls of purchasing “Gray Market” items. ~Augee Correct. I’m comparing the MAWL C to full power units. I know it’s not fair, but from a buyers perspective both options exist and should be explained and explored. The MAWL is the best class 1 unit available but it still has limitations. The question I’m raising is why settle when I can go see Ivan, pay 1/3rd the price, and have no compromises? Exactly. For that amount of coin I’d buy a FP unit. Does anyone know if the neutered civilian version of the mawl is being fielded by our military forces? First off, you aren't going to find a FP unit in the price range of a MAWL other than a PEQ-15, and the C1+ still outperforms a -15. An LA5 is going to run you over $3500, and if you can find an NGAL/RAID X its going to be double wha t MAWL is. the X-1 which is a Class 3 B laser is being fielded by our military, why would they utilize a low powered variant. I agree 100%. So to be clear, the civilian mawl is NOT the same unit that is fielded by our military in covert operations in some far away land. I believe the mawl is likely the best class 1 unit available. But with Full power units like the perst 3 being available for $1200, I know which one I’m going to purchase.. again just my opinion. |
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Posted: 5/28/2020 11:31:27 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I agree 100%. So to be clear, the civilian mawl is NOT the same unit that is fielded by our military in covert operations in some far away land. I believe the mawl is likely the best class 1 unit available. But with Full power units like the perst 3 being available for $1200, I know which one I’m going to purchase.. again just my opinion. Its only a matter of time until those are import restricted. I have read to many horror stories about the PERST to in good conscience recommend them. They will come with their share of issues, in the NV game you get what you pay for. |
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Posted: 5/28/2020 11:42:19 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Its only a matter of time until those are import restricted. I have read to many horror stories about the PERST to in good conscience recommend them. They will come with their share of issues, in the NV game you get what you pay for. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I agree 100%. So to be clear, the civilian mawl is NOT the same unit that is fielded by our military in covert operations in some far away land. I believe the mawl is likely the best class 1 unit available. But with Full power units like the perst 3 being available for $1200, I know which one I’m going to purchase.. again just my opinion. Its only a matter of time until those are import restricted. I have read to many horror stories about the PERST to in good conscience recommend them. They will come with their share of issues, in the NV game you get what you pay for. I’m sure the ‘industry’ is pushing very hard for that to happen, similar to the 89’ import ban  I’ve seen a few issues posted (this is true with Almost all products in the world) but most of the guys I’ve seen have them can’t recommend them enough, including me. Which is why I’ve got another on order after I foolishly sold my last one while needing some cash for renovations on a house I purchased a few years ago. |
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Posted: 5/28/2020 11:44:29 AM EDT
[#26]
The MAWL is $2700 and change. I can’t leave the safety of my home page without tripping over PEQ15’s. Those will set you back $1500-2100 (For a savings of $1200-600) depending on a few things, but I’d highly discourage considering anything salty or with serial numbers filed off. A Perst 3 is $1100 (Savings of $1600!) a Perst 4 isn’t in the same category but it’s less then $500. There’s also the random DBAL A2’s that pop up, typically prices range from $1600-2400 depending on generation, model, and salt content. I even saw a STORM for $3800 yesterday.
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Posted: 5/28/2020 2:01:05 PM EDT
[#27]
I’m sure the ‘industry’ is pushing very hard for that to happen, similar to the 89’ import ban Never underestimate that. That happens more than we realize, even by those that tout freedom, etc.
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Posted: 5/28/2020 2:45:50 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Never underestimate that. That happens more than we realize, even by those that tout freedom, etc. Quote HistoryQuoted: I’m sure the ‘industry’ is pushing very hard for that to happen, similar to the 89’ import ban Never underestimate that. That happens more than we realize, even by those that tout freedom, etc. Who EXACTLY are you referring to? Serious question. |
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Posted: 5/28/2020 3:21:11 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Who EXACTLY are you referring to? Serious question. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I’m sure the ‘industry’ is pushing very hard for that to happen, similar to the 89’ import ban Never underestimate that. That happens more than we realize, even by those that tout freedom, etc. Who EXACTLY are you referring to? Serious question. He was probably referring to the companies involved in the referenced 89 import ban (although I could be wrong) I really doubt anyone would be open and honest about pushing for an import ban on these items, as it would be economic suicide. It would be nice to FOIA some info if and when a ban on the import of Russian aiming devices does come down. ETA: in for an answer |
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Posted: 5/28/2020 3:47:38 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He was probably referring to the companies involved in the referenced 89 import ban (although I could be wrong) I really doubt anyone would be open and honest about pushing for an import ban on these items, as it would be economic suicide. It would be nice to FOIA some info if and when a ban on the import of Russian aiming devices does come down. ETA: in for an answer It happens more than you realize. People love to talk a good amount of shit but their actions often don't match up with it, especially where dollars are involved. I'm sure that happened in 89 with the import ban as well- cheap Chinese AKs at $250. (tear drops falling because I didn't put more back) and $79. a case X39 probably cut into other arms manufacturers sales. I ain't going to answer that other person who should think more before they answer like that. While he's trying to start shit he misses the fact that he implicates himself when he answers in the manner he just did. 
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Posted: 5/28/2020 4:01:29 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It happens more than you realize. People love to talk a good amount of shit but their actions often don't match up with it, especially where dollars are involved. I'm sure that happened in 89 with the import ban as well- cheap Chinese AKs at $250. (tear drops falling because I didn't put more back) and $79. a case X39 probably cut into other arms manufacturers sales. I ain't going to answer that other person who should think more before they answer like that. While he's trying to start shit he misses the fact that he implicates himself when he answers in the manner he just did. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: He was probably referring to the companies involved in the referenced 89 import ban (although I could be wrong) I really doubt anyone would be open and honest about pushing for an import ban on these items, as it would be economic suicide. It would be nice to FOIA some info if and when a ban on the import of Russian aiming devices does come down. ETA: in for an answer It happens more than you realize. People love to talk a good amount of shit but their actions often don't match up with it, especially where dollars are involved. I'm sure that happened in 89 with the import ban as well- cheap Chinese AKs at $250. (tear drops falling because I didn't put more back) and $79. a case X39 probably cut into other arms manufacturers sales. I ain't going to answer that other person who should think more before they answer like that. While he's trying to start shit he misses the fact that he implicates himself when he answers in the manner he just did. Hmmm, OK. You're accusing me of something show me the proof for all to see and hear Robert. You started it with your innuendos. I am not talking shit, you have been accusing me of this is why you stated this so please show us the proof of what you are accusing me of? NO hearsay from another Vendor BUT ACTUAL PROOF! I wanna see it. Second thought, I will answer what you have been accusing me of and this jab. Robert seems to think it was me who went to the FDA and shut Luna lasers down initially and why they had to change their design. Utter bullshit somehow that I got with the FDA and got Luna shut down is why they had to change their design to the "filter system". I want to see the FDA PAPERWORK THAT I WAS INVOLVED WITH THIS PERIOD instead of unhinged innuendos. This WILL be the last time you slander my good name... We are now done talking. |
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Posted: 5/28/2020 4:17:19 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It happens more than you realize. People love to talk a good amount of shit but their actions often don't match up with it, especially where dollars are involved. I'm sure that happened in 89 with the import ban as well- cheap Chinese AKs at $250. (tear drops falling because I didn't put more back) and $79. a case X39 probably cut into other arms manufacturers sales. I ain't going to answer that other person who should think more before they answer like that. While he's trying to start shit he misses the fact that he implicates himself when he answers in the manner he just did. |
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Posted: 5/28/2020 4:28:36 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hmmm, OK. You're accusing me of something show me the proof for all to see and hear Robert. You started it with your innuendos. I am not talking shit, you have been accusing me of this is why you stated this so please show us the proof of what you are accusing me of? NO hearsay from another Vendor BUT ACTUAL PROOF! I wanna see it. Second thought, I will answer what you have been accusing me of and this jab. Robert seems to think it was me who went to the FDA and shut Luna lasers down initially and why they had to change their design. Utter bullshit somehow that I got with the FDA and got Luna shut down is why they had to change their design to the "filter system". I want to see the FDA PAPERWORK THAT I WAS INVOLVED WITH THIS PERIOD instead of unhinged innuendos. This WILL be the last time you slander my good name... We are now done talking. Damn.... I, like many have certainly heard that same story but to hear YOU tell it, is well disturbing to say the least.... Soooo, probably time to put the rope down dude, hanging yourself is never a good idea. |
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Posted: 5/28/2020 4:30:52 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Damn.... I, like many have certainly heard that same story but to hear YOU tell it, is well disturbing to say the least.... Soooo, probably time to put the rope down dude, hanging yourself is never a good idea. |
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Posted: 5/28/2020 4:33:43 PM EDT
[#35]
Quoted: Worse than just bully behavior, this is a CLASSIC LIBERAL TACTIC! But then again this is the same guy that turned in a certain illuminator company for having high powered illuminators. All the while posting like he's pro freedom and supposedly does so much for the community. |
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Posted: 5/28/2020 4:40:35 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I never said I didn't believe that story. And hell you just seemed to confirm it so...... |
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Posted: 5/28/2020 4:41:14 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I never said I didn't believe that story. And hell you just seemed to confirm it so...... |
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Posted: 5/28/2020 4:47:06 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For that course of action I'd recommend buying used. There are a plethora of gear selling pages on facebook and other social media in addition to the EE where you can sell it fairly easily. I bought my PVS-14 used on facebook for $2100 and sold it three years later on facebook for $2000. It was an Omni-VII green tube with no blems. Is there anyone near you that has some stuff that you can look through or play around with? That helps a lot with figuring out subjective things like tube specs or the weight and quality of various lasers. Yes to buy used. And yes to look at locals kit. @johndough im in Central mo when im home. Want to go use nods and try out my various lasers? (peq15, dbal i2 civ and full power, tlrvir2, tlr2ir, dbal a3?) If you are interested were also having an event in Iberia Mo from July 15th-18th. Should have literally any device and tube choice you could want to look through. Seriously pm me and i will get you details. Come on out and try it out for free. |
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Posted: 5/28/2020 4:48:12 PM EDT
[#39]
It really sounds like you need some experience under nvg. Hit me up Ill let you try out anything you want.
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Posted: 5/28/2020 5:08:36 PM EDT
[#40]
Wow. Page 2-3 turned into drama central. This is why the nv forum is never in my reccomendation for newbies.
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Posted: 5/28/2020 5:19:05 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Your opinion is also subjective. You’re also sighting people who aren’t here (who’s opinions are also subjective) to weigh in on the matter. And that’s supposed to give your opinion more credibility? The high setting on the MAWL illuminator washes out the dot badly. I know I’m not the only one this happens to because we just went through this a few weeks ago. Might as well take the T out of TNVC or kiss that hog goodbye if you can’t make out the dot well enough to get a shot off. Agreed. For a class 1 laser, it is king. The fact it can even be compared to full powered stuff is pretty remarkable. The only problem is, class 3 lasers are readily available, and the MAWL C’s advantage over other class 1 lasers disappears when side by side with class 3 lasers. I never had that problem with the MAWL. I had issues with it retaining zero but my understanding is the new tail cap fixes that issue. But never had a prob with the Illuminator washing out the laser. |
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Posted: 5/28/2020 5:29:39 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: NightGoggles has the Echo PVS-14's the lowest price we've seen at $2540.00 for white and $2514 for green. Night Vision Inc has White for $2499  https://nvincorporated.com/product/night-vision-inc-nv-pvs-14/ |
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Posted: 5/28/2020 5:31:50 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 3rd party here checking in that’s looked at and photographed the MAWL beams a few times now. If you’re using it in long range mode and shining it against a white wall 10ft away... the dot might wash out. But at “long range” distances against reasonable targets the civi-powered aiming dot has been perfectly legible for me. It’s still not a great illuminator for extended ranges though, unless it’s a super super dark night. Gotta go with higher power focusable units for long clipon use. The differences between the C1+ and DA are also surprisingly small. Illuminators almost identical and aiming dots just lose the lightsaber ability (which I find no use for, myself). I agree with that. I’m surprised how little difference there is between the da and the c1 versions. I’m not smart enough to tell you how BE Meyers did it, but the Illuminator on the MAWL c1 is super impressive. |
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Posted: 5/28/2020 5:33:24 PM EDT
[#44]
I just wish there was a neutral density filter for the laser
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Posted: 5/28/2020 5:43:30 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I agree with that. I’m surprised how little difference there is between the da and the c1 versions. I’m not smart enough to tell you how BE Meyers did it, but the Illuminator on the MAWL c1 is super impressive. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: 3rd party here checking in that’s looked at and photographed the MAWL beams a few times now. If you’re using it in long range mode and shining it against a white wall 10ft away... the dot might wash out. But at “long range” distances against reasonable targets the civi-powered aiming dot has been perfectly legible for me. It’s still not a great illuminator for extended ranges though, unless it’s a super super dark night. Gotta go with higher power focusable units for long clipon use. The differences between the C1+ and DA are also surprisingly small. Illuminators almost identical and aiming dots just lose the lightsaber ability (which I find no use for, myself). I agree with that. I’m surprised how little difference there is between the da and the c1 versions. I’m not smart enough to tell you how BE Meyers did it, but the Illuminator on the MAWL c1 is super impressive. Isn’t the aiming laser what was neutered on the civilian version, or is the illuminator neutered for civi sales as well ? |
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Posted: 5/28/2020 5:51:50 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes to buy used. And yes to look at locals kit. @johndough im in Central mo when im home. Want to go use nods and try out my various lasers? (peq15, dbal i2 civ and full power, tlrvir2, tlr2ir, dbal a3?) If you are interested were also having an event in Iberia Mo from July 15th-18th. Should have literally any device and tube choice you could want to look through. Seriously pm me and i will get you details. Come on out and try it out for free. I’ll bring some cool stuff out for people to mess with |
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Posted: 5/28/2020 6:00:05 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’ll bring some cool stuff out for people to mess with And by people im hoping you mean me 
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Posted: 5/28/2020 6:17:33 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Isn’t the aiming laser what was neutered on the civilian version, or is the illuminator neutered for civi sales as well ? I have no idea and I don’t think BE Meyers publishes that info. I’m sure some here would know. Other FP units have higher power Illuminators than their civilian counterparts so I’d assume that would be the same with the MAWL but I don’t know. |
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Posted: 5/28/2020 7:33:47 PM EDT
[#49]
Yet another show of impeccable moral character of a "vendor" on AR-15.com. Hats off to TNVC!
OP: you don't need a mawl, but I've used and played with a lot of really high dollar stuff, and it's definitely on my list of things to buy if I ever have a spare $2300 in my pocket. However, for the price of the dbal-d3, I think that'll do juuuust fine for me, probably will for you too, but don't take my word for it. There are events with people with a lot of NV equipment hanging around, and people who will let you play with all of it. Just look for the great peep in the sky. Don't worry about any of the annecdotal issues people have with NV, if you're good in the dark in the woods, you'll be moving like daylight in no time. Passive is a good thing. Shoot passive when you can, I suspect many animals can see IR lasers. Foxes, skunks, and I suspect mice can too, not to mention anyone with even gen1 night vision. |
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Posted: 5/28/2020 7:35:12 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have no idea and I don’t think BE Meyers publishes that info. I’m sure some here would know. Other FP units have higher power Illuminators than their civilian counterparts so I’d assume that would be the same with the MAWL but I don’t know. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Isn’t the aiming laser what was neutered on the civilian version, or is the illuminator neutered for civi sales as well ? I have no idea and I don’t think BE Meyers publishes that info. I’m sure some here would know. Other FP units have higher power Illuminators than their civilian counterparts so I’d assume that would be the same with the MAWL but I don’t know. Side by side, the mawl civilian illuminator is as bright as a restricted dbal-i2 ir/ir, and doesn't have the "pizza" look to it. Food for thought. |
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