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...believe in me, I'm with the High Command.
MO, USA
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[#1]
Originally Posted By DoDoBrown:
yes, but i am blind pinning it. does barrel/brake need to be hot, too? i stopped after a few minutes when i realized the solder wasn't melting...just turning red. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By DoDoBrown:
Originally Posted By PursuitSS:
Are you also using heat stop? You need to have above and below where you are applying heat INCLUDING INSIDE THE BORE! If you don't have it inside the bore you will develop scaling. yes, but i am blind pinning it. does barrel/brake need to be hot, too? i stopped after a few minutes when i realized the solder wasn't melting...just turning red. Do you mean that you are trying to Silver Solder the blind pin? If so, it doesn't meet "The Letter of The Law". BATF clearly states Pin & WELD! |
"When trading bullets it is better to give than to receive"
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - George Orwell |
[#2]
Originally Posted By PursuitSS:
Do you mean that you are trying to Silver Solder the blind pin? If so, it doesn't meet "The Letter of The Law". BATF clearly states Pin & WELD! View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By PursuitSS:
Originally Posted By DoDoBrown:
Originally Posted By PursuitSS:
Are you also using heat stop? You need to have above and below where you are applying heat INCLUDING INSIDE THE BORE! If you don't have it inside the bore you will develop scaling. yes, but i am blind pinning it. does barrel/brake need to be hot, too? i stopped after a few minutes when i realized the solder wasn't melting...just turning red. Do you mean that you are trying to Silver Solder the blind pin? If so, it doesn't meet "The Letter of The Law". BATF clearly states Pin & WELD! yeah, that's what i am doing. just worded it wrong. |
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[Last Edit: nvcdl]
[#3]
Back in the ban era I silver soldered on several brakes and flash hiders.
I initially used the brownells product silver solder but later bought it cheaper from a jewelry supply place. All you need is the right solder and a MAPP torch from hardware store (fullsize). Clean the threads coat with solder then time your brake/flashider - you don't have to use a crush washer as the solder will hold the device in place. Heat the area on the brake/flashider until it gets cherry red and keep it there to ensure the barrel is also getting to same state. I never bothered with heat stop as the barrel can handle the heat. Used cold blue to match up the finish - still looks fine years later. |
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[#4]
Let me ask this!
Why wouldn’t i drill the FH, and barrel and then top Off the pin with silver solder paste to make it the required “Blind Pin” ? Why am i heating the entire muzzle area rather than A spot where the silver solder needs to melt in the hole... |
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...believe in me, I'm with the High Command.
MO, USA
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[#5]
Because the silver solder will not go around the diameter of the threads, this will result in a weak bond and if BATF would wrench it it will come off.
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"When trading bullets it is better to give than to receive" _____________________
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - George Orwell |
[#6]
Originally Posted By Javelinadave:
From the How too section of this forum: How to permanently attach a muzzle device: If you have a barrel that is 14.5", you must permanently attach a muzzle device that makes the total lenght 16" or more. Best to go 16.1" at least to be safe. For the 14.5" barrel, it is commonly accepted to use the Vortex or Phantom style of flash supressors. The ATF states to be permanently attached, the muzzle device cannot be removed with hand tools easily and must use 1100 degree silver solder, blind pinnned and welded, or welded completely around the barrel. This writeup will demonstrate the most common method, the blind pin and weld. This was originally posted by wildearp, I am just using the basics of his post for this section: Start by predrilling the muzzle device through one side - while removed from the barrel. The drill size should be the same diameter as your pin size. Coat hanger works great.: http://www.kevinholman.com/byor/perm/perm1.jpg Next - attach the muzzle device, time it with a peel or crush washer, and then drill into the barrel, using the hole in the muzzle device as a guide. A drill press works well here, to ensure you do not drill too deep. If you penetrate the bore you will destroy the accuracy of the barrel - go slow here. You only need to drill deep enough to accept the pin. http://www.kevinholman.com/byor/perm/perm2.jpg It should look like this: http://www.kevinholman.com/byor/perm/perm3.jpg Now we are ready to insert the pin.... this is coat hanger, cut to fit.: http://www.kevinholman.com/byor/perm/perm4.jpg Before welding, cover the barrel well to ensure you dont mark it up with welding splatter. Wrap it well. Melted adhesive comes off. Welding splatter doesnt so well. (another great option here is to wrap the barrel surfaces with a few layers of aluminum foil.... no adhesive mess. http://www.kevinholman.com/byor/perm/perm5.jpg A pic after welding. At this point - you can hit it with a dremel, or sander, to blend it in (careful!!!) Then hit it with some cold blue to darken it. http://www.kevinholman.com/byor/perm/perm6.jpg Installed: http://www.kevinholman.com/byor/perm/perm7.jpg View Quote |
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His Dude-ness.
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[Last Edit: ar_mcadams]
[#7]
I like the solder method better myself. I have drilled and welded and I don't like the weld spot. I use the Brownells solder paste and a oxygen acetylene torch and heat the base of the hider quickly and evenly so you don't draw a lot of heat into the barrel. You would be surprised how well the parkerizing holds up to it and there is no ugly weld spot. Oil it up and you cant even tell its soldered on.
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[Last Edit: s4s4u]
[#9]
Or if it's just ugly, is it pretty much good to go? View Quote As long as there isn't any obstruction, send it. I'd check with a rod after threading on the suppressor. |
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[#10]
I've got a couple of flash cans i need to solder on pistols. Can some tell me what I need to order from Brownells? I can't find the solder paste that guys mention here on B's website. I find silver solder and paste. I have a MAPP torch for the heat.
Thanks! |
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In memory of my son Sean James, born 6/25/97. Died 9/16/13.
We will be reunited in heaven. |
I just threw your stinkin' palm tree overboard!
VA, USA
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[#11]
It appears Brownells no longer carries it. It was 322120650 STL-1260-650 SILVER BRAZE, 1 OZ. The paste they carry now doesn't meet the BATF temperature requirement.
I believe this is the same stuff: https://www.sra-solder.com/stk-1260-650-brazing-paste-1-ounce |
Caelum, non animum mutant, qui trans mare currunt
-Horatius, "Epistulae" "Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." - Unknown Philosopher |
I just threw your stinkin' palm tree overboard!
VA, USA
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[#12]
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Caelum, non animum mutant, qui trans mare currunt
-Horatius, "Epistulae" "Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." - Unknown Philosopher |
[#13]
Originally Posted By WayneG: It appears Brownells no longer carries it. It was 322120650 STL-1260-650 SILVER BRAZE, 1 OZ. The paste they carry now doesn't meet the BATF temperature requirement. I believe this is the same stuff: https://www.sra-solder.com/stk-1260-650-brazing-paste-1-ounce View Quote Ordering it now. |
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In memory of my son Sean James, born 6/25/97. Died 9/16/13.
We will be reunited in heaven. |
[#14]
My question is will high temp solder discolor an anodized titanium muzzle device? I'm afraid getting the comp red hot will ruin the anodizing, and its kinda hard to re anodize the comp if its permanently attached to a rifle
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[Last Edit: buddyhoohaw]
[#15]
Years ago me and a buddy soldered a few muzzle devices and none of them held. We followed the directions, used the cooling paste etc. and all of them eventually came loose. We both ran ours suppressed which might be the reason the soldering didn't hold. I've gone with a pin-weld ever since.
Cheers |
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Failure has far too many fathers. -MMB
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[#16]
The link to the soldering method at [email protected] (remember that place?) is broken but I hopped in the wayback machine and snagged a copy of the text.
How to Permanently attach a Muzzle Break to a Post-Ban Rifle (assuming the barrel is threaded) By: Scott A. Jimenez of AR15-L One of the BATF recommended ways to perm attach a muzzle device is by 1100+ degree F silver solder. Over in FAL land, this practice is very common with the 'smiffs.' Recommended stuff is a MAPP gas torch ($59 bucks for a spiffy trigger start unit from Home Depot) and Fusion Silver Solder (silver solder and flux pre-mixed in a syringe): www.silversupplies.com Item #56 1 oz syringe $7.95 1145 deg melt, 1205 deg flow. Clean and degrease threads and muzzle device, apply solder paste, index device if necessary, heat device until cherry red for 3-4 minutes, Voila! Permanently attached. MAPP gas will slightly discolor the park so refinishing may be necessary if you're fussy. my particular barrel is for a beater posty 16" LW so I just hit it with CLP to make it dark again and I'm good to go. Notes: 1) Sometimes, the threads can be such a close fit that all the solder paste gets pushed back when you thread the attachment on. The solder won't really have much place to go so you need to create an interrupted thread in the attachment. a Dremel with a long, round grinding stone will be fastest/easiest. Create a few thin troughs perpendicular to the threading inside the attachment. This will give the solder somewhere to flow and hold if the threads are tight. 2) A way to check if you need to do this is to apply a good bit of the paste to the barrel threads, thread the attachment on, then back it off. Is all the paste backed up on the barrel shelf where it meets the threading? If yes, see above (#1). 3) The more you apply the MAPP torch, the more discoloration you will get. It's gonna discolor a bit anyway. i 4) The heat should be concentrated on the base of the attachment that is covering the threads. Some flame will spill over onto the barrel edge but if you keep that to a minimum by adjusting and aiming your flame, you should be able to minimize discoloring on the barrel's park job. You can do a home park job on the end of the barrel and attachment in a cup in the kitchen, but that's a whole 'nuther DIY project. 5) The 1oz tube of paste should be good for ~10 attachments. Use that to estimate how much paste you should be using. Nice stuff for the DIY'er who doesn't have the requisite tools to pin and weld muzzle devices and do extensive refinishing. there are also arguments that even heating to only ~1200F is kinder to your barrel than drilling, pinning, then unevenly heating to welding temps (2x the above temp??). Whichever. Submitted for your approval and chock full of AR content. Get yourself a dremel (to remove the offending bayonet lug) and you can make post-ban compliant barrels all day with this method; or attach your favorite FH to that less-than;16" barrel. Just a side note on this process: It's always good to keep a brass welding rod of appropriate diameter around so that you can knock out a bead of silver if it protrudes into the bore or inside the diameter of the brake's obturator. A quick bronze brushing with a non-plastic rod before the silver has cooled will also do the trick. Also, a wet patch can be used to wipe molten flux mess off the barrel or brake before it burns too much or before it cools and hardens into a mess. Not using too much flux/solder mix on the threads will avoid any need for the above, but best to be prepared, eh? Note from Rex of AR15-L: It shouldn't be necessary to heat it to cherry-red, nor to heat it so long (from Machinery's Handbook): Temperature Color Fahrenheit 752 Red heat, visible in the dark 885 Red heat, visible in the twilight 975 Red heat, visible in the daylight 1077 Red heat, visible in the daylight 1292 Dark red 1472 Dull cherry-red 1652 Cherry-red |
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"Funded by the money, they took from you and me, we're paying these fools to put us on our knees."
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[#17]
New Member here, first time posting. Joined because of the all the rules that keep coming down. Thank you all for this information. I am going to be trying the SS paste method on my 13in pistol and a 3.25in flash can once I get everything ordered. This thread is EXACTLY what I was looking for. I could not find instructions that made much sense to me. I'm tech nerd through and through! Most exciting things I do is some carpentry and changing the oil in my car.
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