User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 2/10/2011 7:18:52 PM EDT
[#1]
Originally Posted By Stickman:
Obviously the scope and bipod are in need of replacement...... What optic is that, Stick? |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2011 7:27:53 PM EDT
[#2]
Beautiful Stick!
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2011 7:32:41 PM EDT
[#3]
Originally Posted By KillAgain:
Originally Posted By KimberTLE45:
Originally Posted By _ERIK_:
Not all units are that way. Something to remember young Jedi is that the Os in your unit have to forecast ammo and ranges for training. Usually on a 6 week out cycle but sometimes even further out. Pay attention during training management classes. If the platform is new or not one that is used a lot its easy to miss. Don't be that guy. A 6 week out cycle while in country? He received the rifle after he had been in country for a month - I don't think I illuded to that in my post, my apologies. Thanks for the advice  .This is actually very common. I've been lucky enough to have gotten to do a work up with a MK12 Mod 1, but most guys aren't that lucky. On both deployments I've passed off my MK12 to another Unit whose guys are untrained on them. It really breaks my heart to pass off my weapon to someone who is not going to use it to it's full potential. I was unique as a DM for the fact that I had already had experience shooting the platform before joining the Marine Corps.(Exception being that I was shooting a 16" Match Grade bbl, with a collapsible stock, and shooting BH 77gr @ .223 pressures. With a 10x Mil dot with 1/4 MOA adjustments.) From my experience, even with schools/training, my opinion is that DM's are not where they need to be. Many of them are clueless about the platform. And the 40 rounds thing....Happens all the time. USMC has limited assets. It's not uncommon for us to steal/trade for AA53 to get a full combat load. I was given 20 rounds to zero in Afghanistan. I took the bolt carrier out, bore sighted, and shot 9 rounds for my zero. I spun the turrets and pocketed the rest of the ammo. 5 months later I got to re-zero and it was shooting 1" high at 100m, which wasn't too bad considering it was 30 degrees when I originally zero'd and it was now 115 degrees. Being experienced with the platform and exterior ballistics, I had been adjusting and resetting the turrets to compensate for the temperature increase. Most DM's aren't that smart, and I can testify to that. Both Division's Division schools actually offers a DM course, the problem is it only trains the scope because there aren't any Mk12s to be had for live fire training. I had to send several guys to Security Force regiment to get live fire training, but on M39s vice Mk12s, again because those were the only guns on the east coast. Like it or not the Mk-12 is not a program of record system and they are debating whether to keep it or go with something else. |
|
|
|
AL, USA
|
Posted: 2/10/2011 8:47:16 PM EDT
[#4]
Originally Posted By Stickman:
Originally Posted By Engineer5:
Originally Posted By Stickman:
I just got in my MK12 Mod1 upper from Centurion Arms! Standing by............... Wait for it...... Such a %$#@& Tease!!! Just so that you know, we all hate you out of sheer jelousy !!!! 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2011 8:47:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 928M4]
[#5]
Originally Posted By Stickman:
Obviously the scope and bipod are in need of replacement...... http://stickman.rainierarms.com/galleries/Centurion%20Arms/Stck_2898-1024-Stick.jpg VERY NICE!!!! Congrats!!! Oh, are you sure you want to put that 99051 in the pic on that rifle?? I sure could use another one of those (hint, hint)... gimme, gimme. BTW, I guess that is about as "mere mortal" of a pic Ithat we will ever get out of you...thanks for doing the "quickie"... Ha, ha!! |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2011 9:02:05 PM EDT
[#6]
Hmmm 20" barrel, but you will prolly get a pass....
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2011 9:55:03 PM EDT
[#7]
Originally Posted By R0N:
Originally Posted By KillAgain:
This is actually very common. I've been lucky enough to have gotten to do a work up with a MK12 Mod 1, but most guys aren't that lucky. On both deployments I've passed off my MK12 to another Unit whose guys are untrained on them. It really breaks my heart to pass off my weapon to someone who is not going to use it to it's full potential. I was unique as a DM for the fact that I had already had experience shooting the platform before joining the Marine Corps.(Exception being that I was shooting a 16" Match Grade bbl, with a collapsible stock, and shooting BH 77gr @ .223 pressures. With a 10x Mil dot with 1/4 MOA adjustments.) From my experience, even with schools/training, my opinion is that DM's are not where they need to be. Many of them are clueless about the platform. And the 40 rounds thing....Happens all the time. USMC has limited assets. It's not uncommon for us to steal/trade for AA53 to get a full combat load. I was given 20 rounds to zero in Afghanistan. I took the bolt carrier out, bore sighted, and shot 9 rounds for my zero. I spun the turrets and pocketed the rest of the ammo. 5 months later I got to re-zero and it was shooting 1" high at 100m, which wasn't too bad considering it was 30 degrees when I originally zero'd and it was now 115 degrees. Being experienced with the platform and exterior ballistics, I had been adjusting and resetting the turrets to compensate for the temperature increase. Most DM's aren't that smart, and I can testify to that. Both Division's Division schools actually offers a DM course, the problem is it only trains the scope because there aren't any Mk12s to be had for live fire training. I had to send several guys to Security Force regiment to get live fire training, but on M39s vice Mk12s, again because those were the only guns on the east coast. Like it or not the Mk-12 is not a program of record system and they are debating whether to keep it or go with something else. If they replace the MK12 with anything less than a MK11, they're making a big mistake. It's a great weapon system. If anything there should be 2 per rifle squad. The only weak point is the training isn't up to par. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/10/2011 10:10:18 PM EDT
[#8]
Originally Posted By KillAgain:
Originally Posted By R0N:
Originally Posted By KillAgain:
This is actually very common. I've been lucky enough to have gotten to do a work up with a MK12 Mod 1, but most guys aren't that lucky. On both deployments I've passed off my MK12 to another Unit whose guys are untrained on them. It really breaks my heart to pass off my weapon to someone who is not going to use it to it's full potential. I was unique as a DM for the fact that I had already had experience shooting the platform before joining the Marine Corps.(Exception being that I was shooting a 16" Match Grade bbl, with a collapsible stock, and shooting BH 77gr @ .223 pressures. With a 10x Mil dot with 1/4 MOA adjustments.) From my experience, even with schools/training, my opinion is that DM's are not where they need to be. Many of them are clueless about the platform. And the 40 rounds thing....Happens all the time. USMC has limited assets. It's not uncommon for us to steal/trade for AA53 to get a full combat load. I was given 20 rounds to zero in Afghanistan. I took the bolt carrier out, bore sighted, and shot 9 rounds for my zero. I spun the turrets and pocketed the rest of the ammo. 5 months later I got to re-zero and it was shooting 1" high at 100m, which wasn't too bad considering it was 30 degrees when I originally zero'd and it was now 115 degrees. Being experienced with the platform and exterior ballistics, I had been adjusting and resetting the turrets to compensate for the temperature increase. Most DM's aren't that smart, and I can testify to that. Both Division's Division schools actually offers a DM course, the problem is it only trains the scope because there aren't any Mk12s to be had for live fire training. I had to send several guys to Security Force regiment to get live fire training, but on M39s vice Mk12s, again because those were the only guns on the east coast. Like it or not the Mk-12 is not a program of record system and they are debating whether to keep it or go with something else. If they replace the MK12 with anything less than a MK11, they're making a big mistake. It's a great weapon system. If anything there should be 2 per rifle squad. The only weak point is the training isn't up to par. Agreed. even with access to other long guns, I think it is one of the most versatile, flexible, and best systems out there. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/11/2011 4:49:21 AM EDT
[#9]
Originally Posted By KillAgain:
Originally Posted By R0N:
Originally Posted By KillAgain:
This is actually very common. I've been lucky enough to have gotten to do a work up with a MK12 Mod 1, but most guys aren't that lucky. On both deployments I've passed off my MK12 to another Unit whose guys are untrained on them. It really breaks my heart to pass off my weapon to someone who is not going to use it to it's full potential. I was unique as a DM for the fact that I had already had experience shooting the platform before joining the Marine Corps.(Exception being that I was shooting a 16" Match Grade bbl, with a collapsible stock, and shooting BH 77gr @ .223 pressures. With a 10x Mil dot with 1/4 MOA adjustments.) From my experience, even with schools/training, my opinion is that DM's are not where they need to be. Many of them are clueless about the platform. And the 40 rounds thing....Happens all the time. USMC has limited assets. It's not uncommon for us to steal/trade for AA53 to get a full combat load. I was given 20 rounds to zero in Afghanistan. I took the bolt carrier out, bore sighted, and shot 9 rounds for my zero. I spun the turrets and pocketed the rest of the ammo. 5 months later I got to re-zero and it was shooting 1" high at 100m, which wasn't too bad considering it was 30 degrees when I originally zero'd and it was now 115 degrees. Being experienced with the platform and exterior ballistics, I had been adjusting and resetting the turrets to compensate for the temperature increase. Most DM's aren't that smart, and I can testify to that. Both Division's Division schools actually offers a DM course, the problem is it only trains the scope because there aren't any Mk12s to be had for live fire training. I had to send several guys to Security Force regiment to get live fire training, but on M39s vice Mk12s, again because those were the only guns on the east coast. Like it or not the Mk-12 is not a program of record system and they are debating whether to keep it or go with something else. If they replace the MK12 with anything less than a MK11, they're making a big mistake. It's a great weapon system. If anything there should be 2 per rifle squad. The only weak point is the training isn't up to par. Right now something like 70 percent of the Mk12s are considered dead lined and it doesn't look like they will get fixed; the current thinking by the gunner community is to replace them with M27 IARs. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/11/2011 7:45:39 AM EDT
[#10]
Interesting. I watched a bunch of them get TI'ed shipped, and fixed in the last 6 months.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/11/2011 12:36:39 PM EDT
[#11]
Originally Posted By R0N:
Originally Posted By KillAgain:
Originally Posted By R0N:
Originally Posted By KillAgain:
This is actually very common. I've been lucky enough to have gotten to do a work up with a MK12 Mod 1, but most guys aren't that lucky. On both deployments I've passed off my MK12 to another Unit whose guys are untrained on them. It really breaks my heart to pass off my weapon to someone who is not going to use it to it's full potential. I was unique as a DM for the fact that I had already had experience shooting the platform before joining the Marine Corps.(Exception being that I was shooting a 16" Match Grade bbl, with a collapsible stock, and shooting BH 77gr @ .223 pressures. With a 10x Mil dot with 1/4 MOA adjustments.) From my experience, even with schools/training, my opinion is that DM's are not where they need to be. Many of them are clueless about the platform. And the 40 rounds thing....Happens all the time. USMC has limited assets. It's not uncommon for us to steal/trade for AA53 to get a full combat load. I was given 20 rounds to zero in Afghanistan. I took the bolt carrier out, bore sighted, and shot 9 rounds for my zero. I spun the turrets and pocketed the rest of the ammo. 5 months later I got to re-zero and it was shooting 1" high at 100m, which wasn't too bad considering it was 30 degrees when I originally zero'd and it was now 115 degrees. Being experienced with the platform and exterior ballistics, I had been adjusting and resetting the turrets to compensate for the temperature increase. Most DM's aren't that smart, and I can testify to that. Both Division's Division schools actually offers a DM course, the problem is it only trains the scope because there aren't any Mk12s to be had for live fire training. I had to send several guys to Security Force regiment to get live fire training, but on M39s vice Mk12s, again because those were the only guns on the east coast. Like it or not the Mk-12 is not a program of record system and they are debating whether to keep it or go with something else. If they replace the MK12 with anything less than a MK11, they're making a big mistake. It's a great weapon system. If anything there should be 2 per rifle squad. The only weak point is the training isn't up to par. Right now something like 70 percent of the Mk12s are considered dead lined and it doesn't look like they will get fixed; the current thinking by the gunner community is to replace them with M27 IARs. Sir, this is just from my experience, which is small compared to USMC wide, over 100 firefights in Marjah and surrounding areas. The Marines actually regularly killing enemies with 5.56 are the DM's. I have not seen anyone kill an enemy with an M4/M16 outside 250 meters. The most effective weapons are M203, M240, and MK12 Mod1. (Technically M240B is crew serve, but we had 0331's that could hang and patrolled with us regularly.) If anything we don't need a lighter replacement for the M249, we need a lighter replacement for the M240B. MK43 perhaps? |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/11/2011 1:31:02 PM EDT
[#12]
Originally Posted By R0N:
Originally Posted By KillAgain:
Originally Posted By R0N:
Originally Posted By KillAgain:
This is actually very common. I've been lucky enough to have gotten to do a work up with a MK12 Mod 1, but most guys aren't that lucky. On both deployments I've passed off my MK12 to another Unit whose guys are untrained on them. It really breaks my heart to pass off my weapon to someone who is not going to use it to it's full potential. I was unique as a DM for the fact that I had already had experience shooting the platform before joining the Marine Corps.(Exception being that I was shooting a 16" Match Grade bbl, with a collapsible stock, and shooting BH 77gr @ .223 pressures. With a 10x Mil dot with 1/4 MOA adjustments.) From my experience, even with schools/training, my opinion is that DM's are not where they need to be. Many of them are clueless about the platform. And the 40 rounds thing....Happens all the time. USMC has limited assets. It's not uncommon for us to steal/trade for AA53 to get a full combat load. I was given 20 rounds to zero in Afghanistan. I took the bolt carrier out, bore sighted, and shot 9 rounds for my zero. I spun the turrets and pocketed the rest of the ammo. 5 months later I got to re-zero and it was shooting 1" high at 100m, which wasn't too bad considering it was 30 degrees when I originally zero'd and it was now 115 degrees. Being experienced with the platform and exterior ballistics, I had been adjusting and resetting the turrets to compensate for the temperature increase. Most DM's aren't that smart, and I can testify to that. Both Division's Division schools actually offers a DM course, the problem is it only trains the scope because there aren't any Mk12s to be had for live fire training. I had to send several guys to Security Force regiment to get live fire training, but on M39s vice Mk12s, again because those were the only guns on the east coast. Like it or not the Mk-12 is not a program of record system and they are debating whether to keep it or go with something else. If they replace the MK12 with anything less than a MK11, they're making a big mistake. It's a great weapon system. If anything there should be 2 per rifle squad. The only weak point is the training isn't up to par. Right now something like 70 percent of the Mk12s are considered dead lined and it doesn't look like they will get fixed; the current thinking by the gunner community is to replace them with M27 IARs. I wonder what's actually deadlines them? Shot out barrels? Broken mounts? Broken scope? I can't think of much else that could go wrong. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/11/2011 1:42:51 PM EDT
[#13]
Originally Posted By Nexus-7:
Hmmm 20" barrel, but you will prolly get a pass.... Please clarify, are you saying this picture I posted is using a 20" barrel? My pic was the last one posted, so I'm guessing you mean me. 
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/11/2011 2:49:50 PM EDT
[#14]
Originally Posted By KillAgain:
The Marines actually regularly killing enemies with 5.56 are the DM's. I have not seen anyone kill an enemy with an M4/M16 outside 250 meters. The most effective weapons are M203, M240, and MK12 Mod1. (Technically M240B is crew serve, but we had 0331's that could hang and patrolled with us regularly.) If anything we don't need a lighter replacement for the M249, we need a lighter replacement for the M240B. MK43 perhaps? Interesting. What about a Stoner Mk63? |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/11/2011 3:14:34 PM EDT
[#15]
Anybody know where to source the Ops Inc collar and flash hider besides Adco or Ranier Arms? Having a bitch of a time finding a set.
|
|
|
|
IN, USA
|
Posted: 2/11/2011 4:07:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: GunnyApproved]
[#16]
Originally Posted By Cavalry99:
Anybody know where to source the Ops Inc collar and flash hider besides Adco or Ranier Arms? Having a bitch of a time finding a set. Bravo Company is the only other place I know of, and they are out of stock also. Most of the time you can e-mail steve at adco and get just the collar and the thread protector if the complete set is out of stock. And then order the A1 mount if he has those, unless your dead set on the Brake mount. Thats what I did, cost me $20 each for the thread protector and the collar. And then $65 for the A1 Ops 12th mount + $5 shipping. $110 total for an Ops 12th Mod mount set up  It beats $180 for the complete brake set, and I think the A1 looks better.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/11/2011 7:05:56 PM EDT
[#17]
I wonder what's actually deadlines them? Shot out barrels? Broken mounts? Broken scope? I can't think of much else that could go wrong. Barrels, throats. That is my experience |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/12/2011 12:15:23 AM EDT
[#18]
Originally Posted By Stickman: Originally Posted By Nexus-7: Hmmm 20" barrel, but you will prolly get a pass.... Please clarify, are you saying this picture I posted is using a 20" barrel? My pic was the last one posted, so I'm guessing you mean me. http://stickman.rainierarms.com/galleries/Centurion%20Arms/Stck_2898-1024-Stick.jpg I thought the same thing stick. Looks a little long (that's what she said) |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/12/2011 12:53:41 AM EDT
[#19]
Originally Posted By justin_schuyler:
Originally Posted By Stickman:
Originally Posted By Nexus-7:
Hmmm 20" barrel, but you will prolly get a pass.... Please clarify, are you saying this picture I posted is using a 20" barrel? My pic was the last one posted, so I'm guessing you mean me. http://stickman.rainierarms.com/galleries/Centurion%20Arms/Stck_2898-1024-Stick.jpg I thought the same thing stick. Looks a little long (that's what she said) Sorry, my mistake. Looked like a 20" barrel to me. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/12/2011 1:30:05 AM EDT
[#20]
Originally Posted By R0N:
Originally Posted By KillAgain:
Originally Posted By KimberTLE45:
Originally Posted By _ERIK_:
Not all units are that way. Something to remember young Jedi is that the Os in your unit have to forecast ammo and ranges for training. Usually on a 6 week out cycle but sometimes even further out. Pay attention during training management classes. If the platform is new or not one that is used a lot its easy to miss. Don't be that guy. A 6 week out cycle while in country? He received the rifle after he had been in country for a month - I don't think I illuded to that in my post, my apologies. Thanks for the advice .This is actually very common. I've been lucky enough to have gotten to do a work up with a MK12 Mod 1, but most guys aren't that lucky. On both deployments I've passed off my MK12 to another Unit whose guys are untrained on them. It really breaks my heart to pass off my weapon to someone who is not going to use it to it's full potential. I was unique as a DM for the fact that I had already had experience shooting the platform before joining the Marine Corps.(Exception being that I was shooting a 16" Match Grade bbl, with a collapsible stock, and shooting BH 77gr @ .223 pressures. With a 10x Mil dot with 1/4 MOA adjustments.) From my experience, even with schools/training, my opinion is that DM's are not where they need to be. Many of them are clueless about the platform. And the 40 rounds thing....Happens all the time. USMC has limited assets. It's not uncommon for us to steal/trade for AA53 to get a full combat load. I was given 20 rounds to zero in Afghanistan. I took the bolt carrier out, bore sighted, and shot 9 rounds for my zero. I spun the turrets and pocketed the rest of the ammo. 5 months later I got to re-zero and it was shooting 1" high at 100m, which wasn't too bad considering it was 30 degrees when I originally zero'd and it was now 115 degrees. Being experienced with the platform and exterior ballistics, I had been adjusting and resetting the turrets to compensate for the temperature increase. Most DM's aren't that smart, and I can testify to that. Both Division's Division schools actually offers a DM course, the problem is it only trains the scope because there aren't any Mk12s to be had for live fire training. I had to send several guys to Security Force regiment to get live fire training, but on M39s vice Mk12s, again because those were the only guns on the east coast. Like it or not the Mk-12 is not a program of record system and they are debating whether to keep it or go with something else. 3rd Marines in Hawaii has a DM course also. Sometimes civilians (prior military anyway) teach the class. Travis Haley came out to do a little teaching once. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/12/2011 2:30:31 AM EDT
[#21]
Originally Posted By Nexus-7:
Sorry, my mistake. Looked like a 20" barrel to me. I'll shoot it next to a 20", just in case there are any non-believers..... 
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/12/2011 5:05:27 AM EDT
[#22]
Originally Posted By dangerdan:
Originally Posted By R0N:
Originally Posted By KillAgain:
Originally Posted By KimberTLE45:
Originally Posted By _ERIK_:
Not all units are that way. Something to remember young Jedi is that the Os in your unit have to forecast ammo and ranges for training. Usually on a 6 week out cycle but sometimes even further out. Pay attention during training management classes. If the platform is new or not one that is used a lot its easy to miss. Don't be that guy. A 6 week out cycle while in country? He received the rifle after he had been in country for a month - I don't think I illuded to that in my post, my apologies. Thanks for the advice .This is actually very common. I've been lucky enough to have gotten to do a work up with a MK12 Mod 1, but most guys aren't that lucky. On both deployments I've passed off my MK12 to another Unit whose guys are untrained on them. It really breaks my heart to pass off my weapon to someone who is not going to use it to it's full potential. I was unique as a DM for the fact that I had already had experience shooting the platform before joining the Marine Corps.(Exception being that I was shooting a 16" Match Grade bbl, with a collapsible stock, and shooting BH 77gr @ .223 pressures. With a 10x Mil dot with 1/4 MOA adjustments.) From my experience, even with schools/training, my opinion is that DM's are not where they need to be. Many of them are clueless about the platform. And the 40 rounds thing....Happens all the time. USMC has limited assets. It's not uncommon for us to steal/trade for AA53 to get a full combat load. I was given 20 rounds to zero in Afghanistan. I took the bolt carrier out, bore sighted, and shot 9 rounds for my zero. I spun the turrets and pocketed the rest of the ammo. 5 months later I got to re-zero and it was shooting 1" high at 100m, which wasn't too bad considering it was 30 degrees when I originally zero'd and it was now 115 degrees. Being experienced with the platform and exterior ballistics, I had been adjusting and resetting the turrets to compensate for the temperature increase. Most DM's aren't that smart, and I can testify to that. Both Division's Division schools actually offers a DM course, the problem is it only trains the scope because there aren't any Mk12s to be had for live fire training. I had to send several guys to Security Force regiment to get live fire training, but on M39s vice Mk12s, again because those were the only guns on the east coast. Like it or not the Mk-12 is not a program of record system and they are debating whether to keep it or go with something else. 3rd Marines in Hawaii has a DM course also. Sometimes civilians (prior military anyway) teach the class. Travis Haley came out to do a little teaching once. 3rd Marines kind of lucked out, they had Gunner Harris who was one of the better Gunners. He was quite progressive in the shooting program he put together. That being said, all the active divisions had similar things, but they all ran into the problem that the Mk12 are in short supply. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/12/2011 5:06:47 AM EDT
[#23]
Originally Posted By 0612Devil:
Originally Posted By R0N:
Originally Posted By KillAgain:
Originally Posted By R0N:
Originally Posted By KillAgain:
This is actually very common. I've been lucky enough to have gotten to do a work up with a MK12 Mod 1, but most guys aren't that lucky. On both deployments I've passed off my MK12 to another Unit whose guys are untrained on them. It really breaks my heart to pass off my weapon to someone who is not going to use it to it's full potential. I was unique as a DM for the fact that I had already had experience shooting the platform before joining the Marine Corps.(Exception being that I was shooting a 16" Match Grade bbl, with a collapsible stock, and shooting BH 77gr @ .223 pressures. With a 10x Mil dot with 1/4 MOA adjustments.) From my experience, even with schools/training, my opinion is that DM's are not where they need to be. Many of them are clueless about the platform. And the 40 rounds thing....Happens all the time. USMC has limited assets. It's not uncommon for us to steal/trade for AA53 to get a full combat load. I was given 20 rounds to zero in Afghanistan. I took the bolt carrier out, bore sighted, and shot 9 rounds for my zero. I spun the turrets and pocketed the rest of the ammo. 5 months later I got to re-zero and it was shooting 1" high at 100m, which wasn't too bad considering it was 30 degrees when I originally zero'd and it was now 115 degrees. Being experienced with the platform and exterior ballistics, I had been adjusting and resetting the turrets to compensate for the temperature increase. Most DM's aren't that smart, and I can testify to that. Both Division's Division schools actually offers a DM course, the problem is it only trains the scope because there aren't any Mk12s to be had for live fire training. I had to send several guys to Security Force regiment to get live fire training, but on M39s vice Mk12s, again because those were the only guns on the east coast. Like it or not the Mk-12 is not a program of record system and they are debating whether to keep it or go with something else. If they replace the MK12 with anything less than a MK11, they're making a big mistake. It's a great weapon system. If anything there should be 2 per rifle squad. The only weak point is the training isn't up to par. Right now something like 70 percent of the Mk12s are considered dead lined and it doesn't look like they will get fixed; the current thinking by the gunner community is to replace them with M27 IARs. I wonder what's actually deadlines them? Shot out barrels? Broken mounts? Broken scope? I can't think of much else that could go wrong. I honestly don't know what is causing the problems, it was just something mentioned at the recent ground dinner. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/12/2011 5:13:13 AM EDT
[#24]
Originally Posted By KillAgain:
Originally Posted By R0N:
Originally Posted By KillAgain:
Originally Posted By R0N:
Originally Posted By KillAgain:
This is actually very common. I've been lucky enough to have gotten to do a work up with a MK12 Mod 1, but most guys aren't that lucky. On both deployments I've passed off my MK12 to another Unit whose guys are untrained on them. It really breaks my heart to pass off my weapon to someone who is not going to use it to it's full potential. I was unique as a DM for the fact that I had already had experience shooting the platform before joining the Marine Corps.(Exception being that I was shooting a 16" Match Grade bbl, with a collapsible stock, and shooting BH 77gr @ .223 pressures. With a 10x Mil dot with 1/4 MOA adjustments.) From my experience, even with schools/training, my opinion is that DM's are not where they need to be. Many of them are clueless about the platform. And the 40 rounds thing....Happens all the time. USMC has limited assets. It's not uncommon for us to steal/trade for AA53 to get a full combat load. I was given 20 rounds to zero in Afghanistan. I took the bolt carrier out, bore sighted, and shot 9 rounds for my zero. I spun the turrets and pocketed the rest of the ammo. 5 months later I got to re-zero and it was shooting 1" high at 100m, which wasn't too bad considering it was 30 degrees when I originally zero'd and it was now 115 degrees. Being experienced with the platform and exterior ballistics, I had been adjusting and resetting the turrets to compensate for the temperature increase. Most DM's aren't that smart, and I can testify to that. Both Division's Division schools actually offers a DM course, the problem is it only trains the scope because there aren't any Mk12s to be had for live fire training. I had to send several guys to Security Force regiment to get live fire training, but on M39s vice Mk12s, again because those were the only guns on the east coast. Like it or not the Mk-12 is not a program of record system and they are debating whether to keep it or go with something else. If they replace the MK12 with anything less than a MK11, they're making a big mistake. It's a great weapon system. If anything there should be 2 per rifle squad. The only weak point is the training isn't up to par. Right now something like 70 percent of the Mk12s are considered dead lined and it doesn't look like they will get fixed; the current thinking by the gunner community is to replace them with M27 IARs. Sir, this is just from my experience, which is small compared to USMC wide, over 100 firefights in Marjah and surrounding areas. The Marines actually regularly killing enemies with 5.56 are the DM's. I have not seen anyone kill an enemy with an M4/M16 outside 250 meters. The most effective weapons are M203, M240, and MK12 Mod1. (Technically M240B is crew serve, but we had 0331's that could hang and patrolled with us regularly.) If anything we don't need a lighter replacement for the M249, we need a lighter replacement for the M240B. MK43 perhaps? The problem is there is no demand sign out there for a lighter 7.62, no gunner or BN commander has been asking for lighter machine guns. Until that start happening neither PP&O or CD&I has anything to go with to justify getting lighter guns. The reason the the Mk12 is prevalent and validated for usage is based on a request for higher power optics during BLT 1/6s involvement in Helmand. I wrote that UNS based on enemy knowing the limitation of our 4X sights and the BLTs Mk11s and M40s being able to engage within range of 5.56 but unobserved by those with RCOs. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/12/2011 1:41:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: dangerdan]
[#25]
Originally Posted By R0N:
Originally Posted By dangerdan:
Originally Posted By R0N:
Originally Posted By KillAgain:
Originally Posted By KimberTLE45:
Originally Posted By _ERIK_:
Not all units are that way. Something to remember young Jedi is that the Os in your unit have to forecast ammo and ranges for training. Usually on a 6 week out cycle but sometimes even further out. Pay attention during training management classes. If the platform is new or not one that is used a lot its easy to miss. Don't be that guy. A 6 week out cycle while in country? He received the rifle after he had been in country for a month - I don't think I illuded to that in my post, my apologies. Thanks for the advice .This is actually very common. I've been lucky enough to have gotten to do a work up with a MK12 Mod 1, but most guys aren't that lucky. On both deployments I've passed off my MK12 to another Unit whose guys are untrained on them. It really breaks my heart to pass off my weapon to someone who is not going to use it to it's full potential. I was unique as a DM for the fact that I had already had experience shooting the platform before joining the Marine Corps.(Exception being that I was shooting a 16" Match Grade bbl, with a collapsible stock, and shooting BH 77gr @ .223 pressures. With a 10x Mil dot with 1/4 MOA adjustments.) From my experience, even with schools/training, my opinion is that DM's are not where they need to be. Many of them are clueless about the platform. And the 40 rounds thing....Happens all the time. USMC has limited assets. It's not uncommon for us to steal/trade for AA53 to get a full combat load. I was given 20 rounds to zero in Afghanistan. I took the bolt carrier out, bore sighted, and shot 9 rounds for my zero. I spun the turrets and pocketed the rest of the ammo. 5 months later I got to re-zero and it was shooting 1" high at 100m, which wasn't too bad considering it was 30 degrees when I originally zero'd and it was now 115 degrees. Being experienced with the platform and exterior ballistics, I had been adjusting and resetting the turrets to compensate for the temperature increase. Most DM's aren't that smart, and I can testify to that. Both Division's Division schools actually offers a DM course, the problem is it only trains the scope because there aren't any Mk12s to be had for live fire training. I had to send several guys to Security Force regiment to get live fire training, but on M39s vice Mk12s, again because those were the only guns on the east coast. Like it or not the Mk-12 is not a program of record system and they are debating whether to keep it or go with something else. 3rd Marines in Hawaii has a DM course also. Sometimes civilians (prior military anyway) teach the class. Travis Haley came out to do a little teaching once. 3rd Marines kind of lucked out, they had Gunner Harris who was one of the better Gunners. He was quite progressive in the shooting program he put together. That being said, all the active divisions had similar things, but they all ran into the problem that the Mk12 are in short supply. Gunner Harris...was he the guy that smoked cigars like cigarettes? IIRC, my Battalion Gunner was a Gunner Harris when I first hit the fleet in 07...The guy was awesome. We didn't get a DM course until 08. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/12/2011 2:03:12 PM EDT
[#26]
Originally Posted By RTUtah:
Originally Posted By Engineer5:
The seller of the WOA barrel is probably a BR shooter who tracks every single round he shoots. Once the groups start to open up they get a new barrel. It's probably nothing the average shooter would even recognize but the serious BR crowd does. Okay, that's something I hadn't considered. And this brings me to another question that I've been mulling over for a little while now. As I build my Mk12, I've been trying to think of how I can train with this thing at the range, In the last 6 months I've started to get back into competitive shooting (Biathalon and smallbore) for now, but I've used this rifle to finally force myself to learn or start learning how to get good hits on targets from much farther distances by mimicking how a DM or professional shooter would work up the shot. I started doing a lot of practice with just getting comfortable quickly ranging objects using a mil-dot and a range card. I worked up the dope for the type of rounds I shoot and laminated and pressed it onto the stock. I also keep a detailed log book keeping track of round counts, cold bore shots, all my holdovers, I practice calling and adjusting for the wind and elevation which I've never bothered actually calculating before. I even draw up range cards with locations where I've posted my targets and estimated distances and winds etc. etc. Basically im trying to learn the ballistics,physics and Trig that goes into making good shots as opposed to working on NPOA/front sight, trigger pull, resp. pause, transitions, reloads, etc. etc. |
|
|
|
HI, USA
|
Posted: 2/12/2011 2:37:55 PM EDT
[#27]
Originally Posted By KillAgain:
The Marines actually regularly killing enemies with 5.56 are the DM's. I have not seen anyone kill an enemy with an M4/M16 outside 250 meters. The most effective weapons are M203, M240, and MK12 Mod1. (Technically M240B is crew serve, but we had 0331's that could hang and patrolled with us regularly.) Outside of CAS, those three were the most effective where I was as well. The versatility of the Mk12's being able to provide overwatch allowed the company commander to send out reinforced squad sized elements to partnered operations with the Afghan units. The training time was still the limitation. Most of the guys got ahold of Mk12's one they were already there, so they were handed to the best shots and smartest grunts to figure out on their own, so I really wish we could find the budget to really do the Mk12 right. Even at only one or two per squad with many guys not having formal training on the platform, the effect was felt. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/12/2011 3:16:15 PM EDT
[#28]
Originally Posted By TehLlama42:
Originally Posted By KillAgain:
The Marines actually regularly killing enemies with 5.56 are the DM's. I have not seen anyone kill an enemy with an M4/M16 outside 250 meters. The most effective weapons are M203, M240, and MK12 Mod1. (Technically M240B is crew serve, but we had 0331's that could hang and patrolled with us regularly.) Outside of CAS, those three were the most effective where I was as well. The versatility of the Mk12's being able to provide overwatch allowed the company commander to send out reinforced squad sized elements to partnered operations with the Afghan units. The training time was still the limitation. Most of the guys got ahold of Mk12's one they were already there, so they were handed to the best shots and smartest grunts to figure out on their own, so I really wish we could find the budget to really do the Mk12 right. Even at only one or two per squad with many guys not having formal training on the platform, the effect was felt. Yeah, CAS and IDF end a firefight really quick. Were you with 1/3? |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/12/2011 3:37:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: dangerdan]
[#29]
3/3 here
We got shorted out on the MK12s. My first deployment, we did t have a DM course. Our second deployment, the DMs didn't get the Mk12s (after we finally got a DM course). Nor so in work-ups either. 07 through the end of 09. Im not sure if 3/3 took DM with Mk12s on their last deployment to Afghanistan in mid 2010. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/14/2011 2:44:59 PM EDT
[#30]
Kevin at High Caliber Sales rocks! That is all.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/16/2011 4:40:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: dangerdan]
[#31]
Its been decided. I will be taking my MK12 back to black....whenever I get time.
As it currently sits: 
Or hell...I may just build another one ;) |
|
|
|
AFG
|
Posted: 2/16/2011 6:12:32 AM EDT
[#32]
Its a shame. That's one of the best looking MK12's.
Khem |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/16/2011 8:36:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: RTUtah]
[#33]
Originally Posted By dangerdan:
Its been decided. I will be taking my MK12 back to black....whenever I get time. Or hell...I may just build another one ;) You lost your mind? Leave it and build a Mod0! 
|
|
|
|
VA, USA
|
Posted: 2/18/2011 10:25:29 PM EDT
[#34]
I currently have a Geissele SSA in my MK12 wantabe rifle. Would a SSA-Enhanced trigger group be a better choice for a MK12 type rifle?
I am not saying anything wrong with the SSA...may decide to use it in another rifle that is not as a "precession" rifle as I want my Mk12 to be. |
|
|
IN, USA
|
Posted: 2/20/2011 11:24:27 AM EDT
[#35]
Which Ergo grip is correct? The right hand one or the ambi one?
Dustin |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/20/2011 12:51:54 PM EDT
[#36]
Originally Posted By pezboytate:
Which Ergo grip is correct? The right hand one or the ambi one? Dustin All the MK12s that I have seen (Marines), the A2 is the correct grip. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/21/2011 9:21:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: USMCVET1130]
[#37]
How does one go about ordering the 77 Gr. custom M2 turrets from Leupold?
|
|
|
|
GA, USA
|
Posted: 2/21/2011 1:31:27 PM EDT
[#38]
Originally Posted By KimberTLE45:
How does one go about ordering the 77 Gr. custom M2 turrets from Leupold? I am looking for the same info. I emailed leupold asking this question and have not seen a reply after a week. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/21/2011 1:46:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Engineer5]
[#39]
Originally Posted By m1ajunkie:
Originally Posted By KimberTLE45:
How does one go about ordering the 77 Gr. custom M2 turrets from Leupold? I am looking for the same info. I emailed leupold asking this question and have not seen a reply after a week. someone here just did it and I can't find their post................. |
|
|
|
IN, USA
|
Posted: 2/21/2011 2:45:02 PM EDT
[#40]
Originally Posted By dangerdan:
Originally Posted By pezboytate:
Which Ergo grip is correct? The right hand one or the ambi one? Dustin All the MK12s that I have seen (Marines), the A2 is the correct grip. But if I were to go with an Ergo grip, which would be correct? Dustin |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/21/2011 2:49:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Cyclic240B]
[#41]
Originally Posted By KimberTLE45: How does one go about ordering the 77 Gr. custom M2 turrets from Leupold? I just called the Leupold customer service and ordered it over the phone. I told them I wanted one for 77gr 5.56mm, rather than .223, and got an "SPR" marked one without asking for it.  FYI, it was less than $40.00 when I ordered. ETA: I had mine within two days of ordering. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/21/2011 2:56:38 PM EDT
[#42]
Originally Posted By pezboytate:
Originally Posted By dangerdan:
Originally Posted By pezboytate:
Which Ergo grip is correct? The right hand one or the ambi one? Dustin All the MK12s that I have seen (Marines), the A2 is the correct grip. But if I were to go with an Ergo grip, which would be correct? Dustin The picture of Matt Axelson(RIP) and his Mk12 has an Ergo on it. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/21/2011 3:08:08 PM EDT
[#43]
Originally Posted By Cyclic240B:
Originally Posted By KimberTLE45:
How does one go about ordering the 77 Gr. custom M2 turrets from Leupold? I just called the Leupold customer service and ordered it over the phone. I told them I wanted one for 77gr 5.56mm, rather than .223, and got an "SPR" marked one without asking for it.
FYI, it was less than $40.00 when I ordered. ETA: I had mine within two days of ordering. Thanks!!! I'll try that.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/21/2011 4:17:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: dangerdan]
[#44]
Originally Posted By KimberTLE45:
Originally Posted By Cyclic240B:
Originally Posted By KimberTLE45:
How does one go about ordering the 77 Gr. custom M2 turrets from Leupold? I just called the Leupold customer service and ordered it over the phone. I told them I wanted one for 77gr 5.56mm, rather than .223, and got an "SPR" marked one without asking for it.
FYI, it was less than $40.00 when I ordered. ETA: I had mine within two days of ordering. Thanks!!! I'll try that. Custom ones are $70 per knob. I have 77gr 5.56 knobs (not the SPR ones) that are black (traded Leupold for the 168gr .308 for those), and I also have custom 77gr knobs that are dark earth. I suppose standard knobs with standard data (such as the SPR knobs and others) are $40. If you want custom data and color, they're $70...unless Leupold changed their prices |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/23/2011 5:13:22 PM EDT
[#45]
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/23/2011 6:11:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Engineer5]
[#46]
You sir, kick ass! |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/24/2011 1:17:54 AM EDT
[#47]
Guys, let's discuss triggers for a moment. Now I know, ideally, pure Mk12 clones should run the KAC NM 2-stage triggers but what are some worthy, less-expensive 2-stage jobs that can be relied upon? And are they really necessary for the average shooter (like myself)?
I'm thinking the LMT 2-stage is a good candidate but I don't have any experience with anything besides single-stage jobs. Thoughts? |
|
|
|
IN, USA
|
Posted: 2/24/2011 1:24:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: GunnyApproved]
[#48]
This may get snuffed off...but I kinda like the RRA NM triggers I put in some of my other rifles. Not the absolute Best out there, but they are reliable, have a clean two stage pull and are about in the middle on price, if you don't want to go all the way for a KAC. But I've been wanting to try a Timney for a while now also.
I know some don't think very highly of RRA, especially when stacked next to a KAC....but for the price, I've never had a problem with them. 900 rounds and counting on one so far.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/24/2011 2:00:15 AM EDT
[#49]
Originally Posted By GunnyApproved:
This may get snuffed off...but I kinda like the RRA NM triggers I put in some of my other rifles. Not the absolute Best out there, but they are reliable, have a clean two stage pull and are about in the middle on price, if you don't want to go all the way for a KAC. But I've been wanting to try a Timney for a while now also. I know some don't think very highly of RRA, especially when stacked next to a KAC....but for the price, I've never had a problem with them. 900 rounds and counting on one so far. I've had a new RRA 2 stage fail me in less than a 30 round magazine. Consider me one of the ones that doesn't think highly of them. They aren't even close to a KAC, SSA, WC etc.. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/24/2011 2:04:59 AM EDT
[#50]
Originally Posted By RTUtah:
Guys, let's discuss triggers for a moment. Now I know, ideally, pure Mk12 clones should run the KAC NM 2-stage triggers but what are some worthy, less-expensive 2-stage jobs that can be relied upon? And are they really necessary for the average shooter (like myself)? I'm thinking the LMT 2-stage is a good candidate but I don't have any experience with anything besides single-stage jobs. Thoughts? I'm not sure how much trigger time you have on the weapon (or weapons in general), but as an instructor I would rather see someone spend time doing dry fire work before they switched to buying a trigger upgrade. The pay offs are typically larger while you master the fundamentals. If you are already dialed in tight, and you know it for a fact, work dry fire anyway, but you will see an increase with the trigger upgrade. |
|
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
