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MI, USA
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Posted: 3/29/2024 4:42:10 PM EDT
Maybe I am missing something, so tell me what would not work about a red-dot magnifier with an simple etched BDC?
There's a PA mag with ranging built into it, and that's neat, but couldn't you have a BDC built-in as well? You zero the dot, then box or frame the dot with the etched BDC, and theoretically it's good, right? |
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Posted: 3/29/2024 5:03:26 PM EDT
[#1]
No sir, magnifiers have still have to be zeroed against the dot, they can't be just centered to the dot.
Some people say this isn't the case, but in my experience it 100% is. |
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MN, USA
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Posted: 3/29/2024 6:46:47 PM EDT
[#2]
You would want to use a flip to side magnifier as an optic? I think QD mounts are questionable in return to zero. You think a magnifier would work as such, returning to exact zero every time you flipped it back and forth? If so I think you are bit optimistic of the capability.
This is why prism scopes exist. |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 3/29/2024 7:08:33 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By s4s4u: You would want to use a flip to side magnifier as an optic? I think QD mounts are questionable in return to zero. You think a magnifier would work as such, returning to exact zero every time you flipped it back and forth? If so I think you are bit optimistic of the capability. This is why prism scopes exist. Sooper Precision? No. Just rough holdovers for ranges outside of 300 - enough to ring a silhouette. |
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USA
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Posted: 3/29/2024 8:14:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10-8DoWork]
[#4]
With the nature of magnifier mounts, I don't think there's enough precision with all of the moving parts considering the flip to side mechanism.
YMMV, but it seems like my magnifiers need fine tuning on occasion to keep the dot centered. It doesn't ever affect my actual zero but using your idea, the BDC would not be quite right. Maybe it would be fine out to 2-300. |
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Posted: 3/29/2024 9:03:31 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 10-8DoWork: With the nature of magnifier mounts, I don't think there's enough precision with all of the moving parts considering the flip to side mechanism. YMMV, but it seems like my magnifiers need fine tuning on occasion to keep the dot centered. It doesn't ever affect my actual zero but using your idea, the BDC would not be quite right. Maybe it would be fine out to 2-300. Top of dot - 100, bang on - 200, bottom of dot - 300yds. A couple open crosshairs at 3 and 4.5 Mils with the top hair extending to the dot might help harrassing fire at 400, 500, and 600yds. I await fights about return-to-zero tests of flip mounts. |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 3/29/2024 9:05:50 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 10-8DoWork: With the nature of magnifier mounts, I don't think there's enough precision with all of the moving parts considering the flip to side mechanism. YMMV, but it seems like my magnifiers need fine tuning on occasion to keep the dot centered. It doesn't ever affect my actual zero but using your idea, the BDC would not be quite right. Maybe it would be fine out to 2-300. Yeah, and at 2-300 no BDC is necessary anyway. Alright, just sounds like a hairbrained idea, then. |
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MN, USA
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Posted: 3/29/2024 9:10:57 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ex_Sanguine_Nation: Yeah, and at 2-300 no BDC is necessary anyway. Alright, just sounds like a hairbrained idea, then. It's always fun to toss around ideas. You are not the first to propose this combo. |
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IN, USA
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Posted: 3/30/2024 11:38:35 PM EDT
[#8]
 The GWOT operator 4-5x Prism Optic Hack (ACOG behind EOTech) |
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USA
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Posted: 3/30/2024 11:42:44 PM EDT
[#9]
I have a couple of
Aimpoint 3XMag-1's On point... Never made a magnifier adjustment. Pricey these days..... |
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Posted: 4/2/2024 10:49:49 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Beamer85: I have a couple of Aimpoint 3XMag-1's On point... Never made a magnifier adjustment. Pricey these days..... I have one as well. Zeroed the optic then centered the the dot through the magnifier. |
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Posted: 4/2/2024 2:25:36 PM EDT
[#11]
What if you just built in the illumination and added variable power?
Like say 1x to 4. Maybe 6 on the high end. That way it would actually be precise and you wouldn’t have to flip anything to the side? |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 4/2/2024 9:07:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: DevL]
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 45-Seventy: What if you just built in the illumination and added variable power? Like say 1x to 4. Maybe 6 on the high end. That way it would actually be precise and you wouldn’t have to flip anything to the side? And you could have click adjustments and a diopter adjustment in back too... |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 4/3/2024 7:28:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Ex_Sanguine_Nation]
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 45-Seventy: What if you just built in the illumination and added variable power? Like say 1x to 4. Maybe 6 on the high end. That way it would actually be precise and you wouldn’t have to flip anything to the side? Yeah yeah... I have those. Just tossing out ideas to improve the functionality of the magnifier setup whilst maintaining its particular advantages, which are being compact, light, simple, able to remove and stow it when undesirable/unnecessary without disturbing your RDS. |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 4/3/2024 8:36:32 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DevL: And you could have click adjustments and a diopter adjustment in back too... Most magnifiers already have those. |
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MN, USA
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Posted: 4/3/2024 10:39:14 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 45-Seventy: What if you just built in the illumination and added variable power? Like say 1x to 4. Maybe 6 on the high end. That way it would actually be precise and you wouldn’t have to flip anything to the side? Or a piggyback reflex on a prism. Or a 35/45° offset reflex or micro. There are several ways to get the same end result. Trying to zero two different optics to the same POI while in line would be a monumental challenge in itself, but the mount is truly the weak link. |
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IN, USA
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Posted: 4/4/2024 5:48:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: PistoleroJesse]
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By s4s4u: Or a piggyback reflex on a prism. Or a 35/45° offset reflex or micro. There are several ways to get the same end result. Trying to zero two different optics to the same POI while in line would be a monumental challenge in itself, but the mount is truly the weak link. Zeroing my red dot to my irons when I installed it wasn't so hard. Yea zero had to be checked but it was just click the non-zero'd until they lined up. 9 hole reviews (vid I linked above) did similar with prisim to red dot. Totally agree that the system with a bdc relies upon repeatability of the mount. I almost think a milgrid with auto ranging (shoulder, height, half height) is more useful to the civilian due to the proliferation of ammo, barrel lengths, and mount heights... |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 4/4/2024 7:53:23 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PistoleroJesse: I almost think a milgrid with auto ranging (shoulder, height, half height) is more useful to the civilian due to the proliferation of ammo, barrel lengths, and mount heights... I can get behind that. PA already has one with ranging, now I'd like to see some others. |
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MN, USA
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Posted: 4/4/2024 10:59:02 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PistoleroJesse: Zeroing my red dot to my irons when I installed it wasn't so hard. Yea zero had to be checked but it was just click the non-zero'd until they lined up. 9 hole reviews (vid I linked above) did similar with prisim to red dot. Totally agree that the system with a bdc relies upon repeatability of the mount. I almost think a milgrid with auto ranging (shoulder, height, half height) is more useful to the civilian due to the proliferation of ammo, barrel lengths, and mount heights... As we all do, but it's not really the same thing. A red dot and irons aren't on the same level as lining up a BDC in one unit with a reticle/dot in another unit, for the purpose of long distance accuracy. It is a significant step up. |
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IN, USA
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Posted: 4/5/2024 9:59:26 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By s4s4u: As we all do, but it's not really the same thing. A red dot and irons aren't on the same level as lining up a BDC in one unit with a reticle/dot in another unit, for the purpose of long distance accuracy. It is a significant step up. Point taken. But you should be able to calculate that drop and add it as an extra step to true the bdc if that's what you are doing. If you know your mills and have the grid like on some PA 3x and 5x there doesn't need to be an extra step. |
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Posted: 4/5/2024 10:08:38 AM EDT
[#20]
Zeroing wouldn’t be crazy if you walked it out instead of trying to go straight to a 400 yard zero.
Mount repeatability would be the challenge as already called out. A prism and MRDS would do the same thing better, easier, and lighter. |
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MN, USA
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Posted: 4/5/2024 10:45:30 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By -OdieGreen-: Zeroing wouldn’t be crazy if you walked it out instead of trying to go straight to a 400 yard zero. Mount repeatability would be the challenge as already called out. A prism and MRDS would do the same thing better, easier, and lighter. This is the correct answer ^^^ If someone has a red dot and a prism with a similar height over bore, the theory could be tested out to see if you can in fact stack reticles with both zero'd to the same POI. You would have to place the red dot behind the prism to do so. |
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IN, USA
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Posted: 4/5/2024 12:23:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: PistoleroJesse]
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By s4s4u: This is the correct answer ^^^ If someone has a red dot and a prism with a similar height over bore, the theory could be tested out to see if you can in fact stack reticles with both zero'd to the same POI. You would have to place the red dot behind the prism to do so. Point of clarification: which direction is 'behind'? I think you need to prioritize prisim eye relief. Then place red dot closer to the muzzle but still on the upper receiver. |
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MN, USA
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Posted: 4/5/2024 1:14:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: s4s4u]
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PistoleroJesse: Point of clarification: which direction is 'behind'? I think you need to prioritize prisim eye relief. Then place red dot closer to the muzzle but still on the upper receiver. I'd question whether you will be able to "see" the red dot if in front of the prism, front being toward the muzzle. It would require a prism with generous eye relief to work with the red dot behind it. The PA 1x is known for it's eye relief, but the reticle is pretty small. For the purpose of the exercise you wouldn't have to be able to "read" the BDC, just see if you can zero two separate optics placed in-line on a rail to the same POI and have the reticles line up the as if they were one. |
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Posted: 4/5/2024 1:36:00 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PistoleroJesse: Zeroing my red dot to my irons when I installed it wasn't so hard. Yea zero had to be checked but it was just click the non-zero'd until they lined up. 9 hole reviews (vid I linked above) did similar with prisim to red dot. Totally agree that the system with a bdc relies upon repeatability of the mount. I almost think a milgrid with auto ranging (shoulder, height, half height) is more useful to the civilian due to the proliferation of ammo, barrel lengths, and mount heights... Why would you slave one independent sighting system to another? |
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IN, USA
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Posted: 4/7/2024 8:06:35 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 45-Seventy: Why would you slave one independent sighting system to another? Optimization of cheekweld. |
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Posted: 4/7/2024 10:48:00 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PistoleroJesse: Optimization of cheekweld. Those are fun words but that’s not how sighting systems work. |
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