Jordan's a cool guy and local to me. Don't forget Sook' showing up here and typing out a damn BOOK for these people.

Dude.... Why do you lie? I just went back and re-read the thread. Nothing of the such that shows that this thing does better. One guy posted some 300yd groups. Great groups for a CL barrel, or any barrel for that matter. So again, were back to the barrel with a sample size of 1.

You're caught. You can't defend yourself so you continue to lie. Good deal.

"I can build an AR cheaper and better than Hodge" -trolls in this thread



This thread in a nutshell.

Im many things. You'll find that a liar, is not one of them. This thread is about to get an enlightening, I think.

You missed the point. Try to keep up, jr.

If your point was to prove you're an incredulous asshat who are calling people liars when theyve been perfectly reasonable with you then you've proven that pretty well.

You too? Still hasn't provided the answers though. If he doesn't have them, that's fine. Just admit it.

And he lied about it.... so there's that too. There's no 'book' with all of the explanations written anywhere in this thread. So you're the ass. Nana Nana Boo Boo...

Snowflake

And lastly, no that wasn't it. Reading comprehension. Go away troll

*Sigh*

Part 1

Despite the immediate reaction to illogical banter, which drives us SMEs off of this site, I do truly enjoy helping people become better and know more. That is the only reason I'm going to respond to all this (one last time) - I'm going to remain reserved and give the benefit of the doubt to naysayers that they are genuinely curious and can stifle their confirmation bias for the time being. If you are incapable of setting aside a pre-determined thesis based upon only what you have (disregarding you may not have everything), stop reading now. You cannot be helped.

We are in the information age. Never before has an individual been able to access so much information or cross reference material at the speed or volume we can now. I believe it's natural to want to know more, especially in a saturated industry. Think about it, gun shops are going out of business as people realize they can save money and time by cutting out the middle men. It's natural to want to seek and cut out suppliers and intermediaries, or information in general so people know what they are really paying for. We all do it.

There are two sides to this. A producer always wants to retain as much IP and a unique edge over competition as possible - sometimes this can just be an edge in the marketing domain, others it can truly be technical in nature. Many times this includes a producer not wanting product information to be taken out of context and used in such a way to degrade their brand. Use gas ports as an example. To us it is a hole in a steel tube that gets us in the general vicinity. To a company, it reflects the aggregate product, and their spec may result in CS complaints if used in a different configuration than what is intended. Gas port sizes +/- a thousanth or two doesn't really mean anything by itself. +/- 4 to 10 thou may mean everything to you and I.

The other side is the consumer wanting to know everything they can know about a product. The consumer accepts a balance of this when they purchase something, and do not accept it when they decline to purchase. It's that simple - only you can determine what amount of information is acceptable. I absolutely reach out to contacts and agencies that I'm familiar with to get information to guide my purchases. Some may not be accessible by everyone, and for those of us that use whatever resources we are able to, we aren't always able to or comfortable with sharing some information. We share what we can to help others. There's nothing wrong with a gentleman's agreement.

Now, this means that others may not be privy to certain documents or data points (anecdotal or otherwise). Said documents or data points may not be able to be furnished for various reasons. This does not mean they don't exist. Confirmation bias may tell you otherwise. What I suggest to those folks is to reach out to shops in question, in this case, the public number to Hodge Defense - I'll give you a guess as to who is going to pick up the phone (hint, it's not a large CS shop taking calls). I encourage everyone to gather what information can be had, and to identify the common denominators to inform their decisions or opinions. It is easy to reach out and seek information for yourself. If you wish to go so far as to FOIA an agency, I can help guide you. Not doing so is lazy behavior at best, and being deliberately disingenuous at worst because you have a pre-determined message. This is what I call, to those applicable, a you problem.

So, I'll now do my best to educate those willing to listen and be civil. I'm not going to sell anyone on anything - that's not my job, and I get no personal gain from what anyone here does after the fact.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Let's talk barrels first.

I am not sure how accuracy reports within this thread are a flat out lie. I won't speak for anyone else here, but my gun delivers 1.3 MOA performance. That 1.3 MOA is for three 10-shot groups for a 30-shot composite. That is firing from a Magpul M3 PMag, with Black Hills Mk262 Mod 1 with the last three digits of the lot being 002 (velocity of 2590)(it does it with any of their lots). It's fired off a Harris bipod, an Accuracy 1st DG sand sock, and a Nightforce 1-8 ATACR dialed up 2 MIL and holding on the 2 MIL line. That statistically is something like 97+% confidence. That's real life performance - if one wants to contest this claim, PM me and I will invite you shooting. I have no problem with this. I will even let you take my gun for a spin and draw your own conclusions about it.

I could post a picture of a similar group later on with a digital caliper going edge to edge around the ES of the group. In fact, I may go to the range and fire ten 10-shot groups overlaid so people can get a real indication of the gun plus ammunition consistency. Maximum ES for Mk262 if I remember correctly was 4.5" at 300 yards, meaning a 1.5 MOA standard for 100 shots out of a Mann test barrel. I would bet money my gun doesn't exceed 2.5 MOA for those 100 shots, and probably wouldn't exceed 2 MOA.

Nobody is claiming these guns are the most accurate, that they cannot be more accurate, or they are benchrest guns (contextually irrelevant, so let's just let that die). Any gun with a 5.56 chamber is going to be hard pressed to be a true sub minute gun for any significant number of rounds. Most shooters on this site do not own true sub minute ARs. There is such thing as good enough for most purposes.

What HDSI owners are saying is that they are giving that level of performance at higher round counts than other barrels of similar configurations. I can take an excellent DD barrel and it is almost guaranteed to shoot, but if I heat it up too much my groups will open up some and I will see more zero shift if I hang a suppressor off of it. I can do well with an excellent FN-produced Centurion for 25K rounds, but I can't get the gas port as small as I want from the get go (more on this later). I've seen the HDSI barrels in full on HDSI guns and FN Pro Line Guns shooting damn near the same groups at 9K rounds fired as they were in the beginning. Bore scoping doesn't matter as much as some think it does. I've seen heinous looking, fire cracked barrels shooting well. Why? They had good bore dimensions, a well designed chamber with no runout, and more. These HSDIs have taper bores just like DDs and HKs which contribute to their velocity retention (critical to prevent a bullet falling out of a velocity and harmonic node. Wikipedia barrel harmonics for more information).

If I want a laser barrel, I'm calling CLE and ordering a 16" intermediate Bartlein, 1:8 twist, CLE chamber, 0.078" gas port, BAT Machine extension, and a bolt headspaced with a few thousanths to spare. That barrel cannot get me to 35K rounds with less than 200 FPS velocity loss. You can easily build a more precise system, but you will pay a cost in another domain. There is no free lunch.

So how do I rate barrels? Depends on the use. For a hard use assault rifle I use metrics of precision, accuracy, velocity retention, porting, and availability. HDSI barrels give me the best blend of what I want there - a sub 2 MOA barrel that doesn't behave adversely with suppressor mounting or usage (a stable 1 MOA shift hot or cold, not entirely counting suppressor fouling), retains velocity to the end of it's life, doesn't result in overgassing, and I can find it. If I can't find it? I go with a different barrel! DD or Centurion answers the mail here.

Someone noted the contour is similar to a BA profile. That person is correct. The Hodge barrel contour isn't so unique that it can't be replicated. It is just an intelligent contour given the amount of material present. The problem is I can't really get everything I want in one barrel unless I get an HSDI/FN. If you don't need a 35K capable barrel, and your gas block to gas journal fit is loose, or your gas tube is out of spec, or you don't shoot full pressure 5.56 ammo all the time, etc., this barrel may not be for you. That is okay! It's just a barrel, not a first born child.

Regarding thermal fitting, this is nothing new, and nothing BCM or Hodge created. The military shooting teams were thermal fitting match barrels to NSN receivers for years before either company existed. It is a valid concept that prevents wandering of zero when the gun heats way up with minimal torque specification. Who did it first I do not know (I believe it was Jim), but the concept of a reduced inner diameter within the carrier bore only for the barrel nut bearing surface was the new practice. That is a new dimension on a print, which means a separate receiver line for an OEM producer.

Speaking of that, if you take an HSDI receiver (or several others on the market) and throw it in a CMM or even manually check for squareness and such, you'll find it is subject to tighter controls than your standard NSN upper that can be had for ~$60. You will not likely find an HSDI receiver with a receiver face that is not square. You will not likely find one that has takedown lug holes located incorrectly, and the lugs themselves will not be standard dimension. Even the anodizing is modified (regardless of 7075 or 2099), done via 'brightening' or known as electro polish anodizing. You can Wikipedia it for a really good description on how it all works. It is done by HK for their receivers and results in a very, very smooth gun. All of this took RDT&E, trial and error during a time where the rest of the industry just wanted to speed up and make more. This took money to add the finite features. It takes an OEM producer time and money to change tooling and programming on their machines for a low volume product line, and takes more time to make so specifications are held to the print. This all adds up in time and money - this is no secret in any industry.

There is an upcharge for assembly of everything on planet Earth. It is not $1K for HDSI guns. If you have a telephone and a few minutes of time, you may not claim ignorance here when you can call and ask from the head of HDSI directly. You are paying for a bit of exclusivity, as Jim does want his brand to be a different kind of customer (his prerogative) and doesn't want to compromise QC for volume, or add an assembly plant to his house. The parts are NOT commodity parts. Pins from gun to gun are installed in the same orientation - it's maddening OCD, going into details that don't even matter to me at times! If you want to know the cost to manufacture the parts, call HDSI and ask. He may well tell you, or he may not. But you could ask if it takes more or less than $75 to produce his barrels. He'll likely laugh and say more.

Triggers can vary on his guns, but even if he uses the ALG ACT trigger, he even goes in and lightly polishes contact surfaces of that. I provided a Larue MBT on mine with the heavy spring and he used it willingly. You have flexibility here.

I got this gun because I was tired of hunting around for parts, stripping substandard parts off existing guns, or having other parts break (I've broken ALMOST every part on an AR. Got a few more to go to complete the list ).

Could I build one equal? Possibly. If I couldn't find an HSDI receiver, I'd grab an excellent Gen 2 SOLGW receiver set. I'd grab a Radian Raptor CH, a Larue MBT2S, and a complete lower and upper parts kit from FCD. I'd use Magpul or B5 furniture. For a BCG I'd try to get a standard 9.6 oz QPQ carrier group but if this couldn't be had would settle for a SOLGW or equivalent carrier group. Stock H2 buffers are fine, and would use a Springco white spring. I'd call on SOLGW again for one of their gas tubes and pin it to an SLR .750" fixed gas block. I'd still use an HSDI barrel, and a SF muzzle device of whatever flavor. If I couldn't luck out to find a 7075 Wedgelock or 6061 Pinchlock rail, I'd use the FCD/CMT rail cut to 13.625" and a barrel nut torqued to 40 ft/lbs wet with grease. Magpul MBus Pro BUIS. I'd have an adult like D. Wilson MFG put it together and pin the gas block for me (give him a call and ask his opinions about HDSI gun assembly).  So on and so forth with all levels of accouterments and gadgets.

At the end of the day, would that be a baller gun? Absolutely it would! It would also cost me more by the time I had ordered everything, shipped it, had stuff assembled, had to buy HS gauges if I didn't send it out, etc. That's a lot of headache when I could just buy the gun to begin with. AND if something went wrong with it, who do I go to? Who is going to support that gun? If I somehow suffered a parts failure on my gun right this second, I could text Jim and he'd call FRANTIC wanting to know the location of every atom surrounding the part failure and want to put hands on it. I once asked him not too long ago, "Man, what would you do if I dinged this thing up and it broke?". He replied, "Well, I'd go back to the drawing board, because I should've made a better widget to begin with! And I should have tested it harder!"

You DON'T get that with much of the industry these days. Too many are in love with their architecture or their own self image. You are also buying a seriously high level of support backed by a behemoth called FN. Some of the aforementioned companies above are like this as well.

Now, do I completely agree with the 'If you get it" slogan? Yes on principle, no on context. I do feel he (Jim) could describe that publicly a little better. What he normally says is, paraphrased, "Once you shoot it, you get what value it has". I interpret it differently - I take it as once you see the gun up close, examine it, and use it, you realize it isn't anything that crazy special or super proprietary in many respects. It simply is done right from the get go, but given the state of the industry, its not hard to soar like an eagle when you're surrounded by turkeys!

An HDSI gun may not be for you. You may not be shooting the ammunition type the gun is tuned for, the quantities to actualize the benefits, or you may not be happy with availability. You might not be shooting fast enough, accurately enough, suppressed or unsuppressed. You may not even be happy about an inability to know what alloy the barrel is made from. All of this is okay. None of this means it isn't worth the price. They are extremely functional guns for the purposes of long term hard use.

S/F

Part 2

Okay, switching gears to the context of military/LE use and technical mumbo jumbo.

Not every gun on the market is tuned per say. Many are thrown into generic configurations that work well enough for most shooters. Remember, a gas port specification by itself doesn't mean anything.

Taking an HSDI gun, it is timed for it's specific intended use : high round counts of M855A1, AA53, AB49, 70gr. Optimized, etc. across a full range of temperatures and altitudes. It is intended for a level of backwards compatibility to work with military theater provided logistics and the predominant configured parts across the US for in-extremis repairs.

Besides terminal ballistic performance HSDI guns provide, it also provides tame enough kinematics.

Some people in the corners of the BookFace have criticized this point, but they are not my opinion. It is basic physics.

You start with a tamed down gas port. It can be tamed down because of a really solid gas block seal (something KAC rifles are exceptional at!), a solid gas tube to gas block seal, an in-spec gas tube (particularly the flared boss that fits into the carrier key), a solid and flat carrier key to carrier deck contact surface, and triggers with a military strength hammer spring. Now, you no longer need an extra power or proprietary buffer spring or excessively biased buffer weight. The QPQ carriers travel a touch faster than standard phosphate carriers, the exact speed of which (in inches per second) I do not know, but the difference can be felt from a complete HSDI gun to an FN Pro line gun. I do know it is less than a 14.5" mid gas gun with a 0.076" port and an H2 buffer in front of a standard action spring. Also with this setup (especially 14.5 mid) it is less sensitive to suppressor usage (carrier speeds start lower than most guns, end slower as well). Bolt life is exceptional as a result of QPQ treatment, but the jury is still out on whether the reduced friction coefficient or the hardening of the metal is the more dominant factor. This is beyond my level of understanding.

All put together? The guns shoot softer than many of it's competitors. In other words, the buffer is bottoming out on the buffer tube with less force than other guns set up differently. Split times can be matched by any gun with similar triggers, yes, but at the expense of either group size or muscular tension/control required to control a more 'violent' system. Post firing actions like follow through and recovery/reset are easier - this is one of those things you need to try first hand to experience. A well-tuned JP rifle can deliver the same or better performance in this regard but at the expense of reciprocating mass (important when factoring in external debris).

Moving on to the SEP Program, the Army did test HSDI guns. They also did test several other competitors aside from the M4A1 and M27. This is part of the reason there is no publicly available (such as on NDIA) data. Those that are aware of the program know the top line conclusions, but even if you FOIA (all documents related to 2007 SEP Program rifle durability and user assessments - Picatinny NJ) the data collected is considered sensitive particularly if a competitor got a hold of another's data. Normally a company will get a result back and all other entrants will be blacked out to them. Now, if you want to know more, call the HSDI number and ask. You may not learn everything, but you will learn more.

It is no surprise a well timed, free floated gun with an American answer to the HK barrel would perform better than either the M4A1 or M27, particularly firing hotter, older lots of M855A1. I do know that the HSDI gun was more reliable (not hard to do, but not taking away from what Jim has done). All that broke was the right side of an extended ambi charging handle. It happens. What were the metrics you ask?

There are normally several in the standard 24K round assessment. Dispersion (100 yards), Mean Rounds Between Stoppage (MRBS), Mean Rounds Between Essential Equipment Failure (MRBEEF), rate of fire measurements (auto RPM), velocity (Army criteria for deadline is 200 FPS and over 7 MOA dispersion... garbage...) at the muzzle (FPS), throat erosion (in thousanths of an inch), firing pin protrusion (in thousanths of an inch), buffer spring length (inch + fractional remainder if I remember correctly), headspace (in thousanths of an inch) and one or two others I'm forgetting. The whole thing is done in 600 round cycles between a wipe and lubricant, and every 1200 or so is cleaned fully and inspected/measured. Normally you could fire two 600 round cycles in a day, but they often drag it out and fire one cycle per day for... Civil Service reasons...

I have tighter deadline criteria for my guns or parts than that, but that should give you a rough idea of the data will be found in the report.

Regarding military contracts, having a military or LE contract doesn't mean anything in itself either. It is no standalone metric of success or failure. There are many products that should have been in service for decades if it weren't for the bureaucratic legions that exist to maintain the status quo. The lack of a military contract means nothing when Army G8, to this day, has rejected TWO Deliberate Universal Needs Statements from the 82nd Airborne requesting free floated rails for the M4A1, and I quote, "We have no interest in modifying the M4" (Please confirm yourself by calling the 82nd Abn PAO and requesting to talk to their SgtMaj). If an organization can't even float their rifles formally, is the lack of them awarding a contract for a baller rifle an indication that it sucks? No! To imply that is to show mastery of the highest level of mental gymnastics.

ASR was won by the Barrett MRAD. Does this mean the AI ASR II (now AXSR) was a junk rifle? Not at all! One tiny little thing can cost a victory, be it a contract proposal error, a drop test, a wayward KO (acronym for a contracting officer, FYI!) with a conflict of interest, institutional inbreeding that kills good ideas in the cradle... any of it! SEP Program fell victim to the innate ability of the US Army to fuck up a threesome and hit the sweet spot of mediocrity.

Now, a separate measure would be who, if they are able to, purchases things with their own money, and who uses it if allowed? While I won't say much of who and where, if you ask around you will see HDSI guns or uppers out there. That I have one is no accident. Even then, who uses it and what they use it for shouldn't really mean anything to anyone by itself. Evaluate your own needs, skills, resources, and make decisions accordingly. Would you use an M40A6 because the Marine Corps had them? Not only no but hell no! One can get a WAY better rifle for the same money (nearly an AI!) and less piecing it together with all associated headaches. Just because I have one doesn't mean you need one - you may need something more economical, or through some crazy circumstances, you may actually need something even more durable or boutique (in configuration or rarity)! Lack of contracts being correlative of quality is a straw man argument at best, and not a good one.

Hell, KAC Mod 2s are some of the absolute best guns/uppers going right now. Take that sucker out of the box, add optic, ammo, sling, lube, pants are optional for this party, and go shoot! I love their enlarged bolt lugs and generous radii, and absolutely love the fact that the gas system is now second-echelon serviceable due to the castle nut architecture. I love that they are more available than the HDSI lineup, or even the FN Pro line (at this time). If a KAC Mod 2 isn't in the running, you're wrong. The KAC offerings are in the $2K+ range complete. The HDSIs are as well - neither is truly off base.

I can't build a gun off a KAC barrel because I can't get the extensions. I lose there but I gain on distributor availability over HDSI. I gain backwards compatibility with an HDSI in the event something goes wrong, and I can change configurations easily. Want a Proof barrel? HDSI will do it for you. KAC? Not so much - you're going to take it like Henry Ford said you will. And you'll like it.

So HDSI - can anyone do it? Yep, if they wanted to take the time and effort to make those guns. Does everyone do it, and do it in one shot? No.

Give it a shot, pick up the phone and investigate, and go shoot one... or not. Makes no difference to me.

Lastly, if someone thinks they can make a cheaper gun with the same levels of performance and longevity, then I ask, what are you waiting for? Help the rest of us out. I ain't scared of you!

S/F

When I get back to a computer this evening, I have a few questions and comments about the above two posts. Too long to type on a potato. To quickly address the build myself thing, I’m talking about with his parts. You can but HDSI AU partsfor an upper, sake ones that come with his upper and they’re $700+ less than getting it assembled. Not talking about sourcing parts myself, but his parts for his uppers.

Sure brochachio!

I do NOT profess to have every answer, but I’ll help ya’ best I can.

S/F

See my comments above. I'll get to your top post sometime if I don't have to leave the office today. I see what you're saying though and I believe its a solid rifle based on numerous things. However, I also know that if a product is 100% subbed out, there's high markup on everything because now there's maybe 8 vendors involved in a single rifle before it gets to the re-seller. Now everyone is getting their 10%.

And that about sums it all up perfectly. If you want to legitimately get in he is more than accommodating, if not he’s cool with that too. If he ever offers you a cup of his Kool-Aid, graciously accept and enjoy the ride.

+1

There is a reason even the guys over at KAC that have Hodge gear post rave reviews about it. Not that I'm going to say they prefer it to KAC, but that they recognize quality when they see and shoot it.

merely curious, why choose the FCD/CMT rail over a "wedgelock family" rail like triarc trilok, the zev 6061 wedge or the SOLGW  6061/7075 wedge?

Good question! That was somewhat an off the cuff selection, but I know now that the Wedgelock architecture is excellent. Here is my rationale :

1. As time goes on, you learn more. I had to re-learn the balance of geometry to material choice. For that reason I've been shying away from 6061 rails that are thin in some areas. This does not mean one won't perform essential functions (float the gun, provide modularity, etc.) or isn't worth it to many, just for what I am doing it/VIS may not be the best idea if it takes a large impact and I'm trying to hold zero with an IR/VIS laser. This also doesn't mean I've empirically tested everything out there!

2. I would totally run the SOLGW 7075 Wedge rail, I just can't find any online yet. SOLGW is a solid company that does not put out bad stuff.

3. The FCD/CMT rail was what I believed to be a good example of balance between geometry and alloy. If you look at the cross section of the rail it is much thicker and built up where it can be, to include the barrel nut. I like that it doesn't break the bank and one can get it in custom lengths whereas sometimes getting modernized lengths (barrel length minus ~1") is difficult for companies that are in love with their architecture and resistant to modification.

4. I figured trying to make an example of how to 'match' an HDSI gun end ending up using all HDSI parts would be kind of a redundant mental exercise

5. I am holding out for another HDSI rail that should answer the mail for my use, refining the P-LOK rail (which is a TANK, love it or hate it!).

Hope this answers the question!

S/F

You're welcome!

I still encourage folks to go out on their own to research and experiment. Also, as I've had to learn repeatedly (a cyclical reality in the training and education industry!), one should realize that people have all kinds of different requirements and needs - they may not match yours.

Need anything, let me know!

S/F

Agree

I always learn something when you post... My wife appreciates you making me a bit smarter.....

Waiting for the darn pinch lock rails to come in stock somewhere. Definitely want to try one out.

There's a 12" or 13" in the EE right now if you're into FDE.

Maybe in the future. Right now I'm looking for 10.5 or 11.5 in the titanium grey. Thanks for the heads up though!

I have an 11.5" Titanium Grey P-Lock that I would trade for the same in black.

@GS5414

Have you been part of any official testing for the SR15/SR16 family of rifles? I'm very curious as to how they would fair against a HDSI rifle in a true "head-to-head" consisting of accuracy after a given amount of rounds, MRBF, bolt life, etc. I imagine that they would be quite similar.

Do you have any first hand experience with the URX4?

I don't know if they're a gimmick or not (I suspect not), but I FO'd on a 13.6 Pinch lock rail of his from off the EE over the weekend.

Looks like a solid piece of kit. Anxious to try it out.

@Harv24 - You're welcome! I can't make you too much smarter over the net, that's reserved for classes.

@methical20 - I have not been part of formal tests on KAC Mod 2s or variants, but have spent some time behind them and have seen only good performance. I do suspect they will perform similarly to HDSI guns, although I realize that they are two different guns built with different things in mind. I hypothesize that the KAC barrels will lose velocity and gain dispersion a bit sooner than the HDSI, but we are talking about two guns that'll easily make it past 20K rounds. The URX4, I've shot a bunch and I do like them although the max torque specification does give me a bit of pause. I shy away from rails (generally) that require rezeroing the gun in the event of a damaged unit that must be replaced (and less special tools and shims, for me, the better). I have not dropped them but KAC is quite diligent about this in their own testing. To each his own, but I still maintain the KAC Mod 2 is one of the best guns (or uppers) for the money that can be regularly had today.

I still want to grab Jack L. by the ears and scream at him to make the SR26 (nothing but love, fellow Belleau Woodsman), and slightly modify the cam pin slot in their large frame guns, but otherwise the fellas at KAC are doing things right right now.

@MidwestRookie - You'll see very quickly that the P-LOK rail is a beefy chunk of metal. Although M320 mounting is pants-on-head retarded, the rail can actually take the recoil force of 40mm HE being fired. You pay for this in weight - it is not the lightest, slimmest rail. Some love it, some want something halfway between the P-LOK and the Wedge Lock. You will love the system of lockup, which when I took a close look at it, irritated me that nobody had come up with it before now.

S/F

I did read something that mentioned it being a little thicc. As a bigger guy I don't think I'll actually mind that too much. I feel it might balance well with a "heavier" stock like a SOPMOD, which I already planned on using with it.

Only one way to find out tho, right?

Cheers

Arf really needs to enforce some kind of "no idiotic child like badgering of SMEs with senseless arguing".

If a person has a disagreement they can voice rationally that's swell.  When a guy's argument with a SME is "Nana Nana Boo Boo..." he needs a time out at least.

Did that upset you? Context..... please, go on with your life.

Yes... Don't be a Douche bag....Have a civil conversation...like the adult you're suppose to be...

At the end of the day...We would prefer to hear what GS has to say...not you.
Unless you are a SME.

Again, context. Some snowfalkes got upset because I questioned a product. I'm still waiting for GS to respond to my previous questions.

And FYI - Nobody cares what you prefer.

Google didnt help me... Im still not sure if its "subject matter expert" or the "metallurgy" one...?  In this case both maybe? I need to reshoot azimuth, Im lost...

Lol are you guys trolling?

Subject Matter Expert.

Got my Pinch-lock rail today. Idk what it is exactly but this things feels luxurious. I know that sounds weird, but this rail has some velvety smooth anodizing on it. Feels great in the hand and looks good to me. And as an Irishman, I don't mind the clover either. Can't wait to get this build together!

I think this is probably the most accurate statement out there. Luxury items are NEVER a "great value", as those luxury upgrades usually come at a very high cost with diminishing returns kicks in. I get it. The guy makes some VERY well done and hand crafted rifles made EXACTLY to his specs. That OCD level of fitting and insistence upon non standard parts comes at a premium and not everyone is willing to pay for those diminishing returns. Nothing wrong with the buyer who has extra cash and wants to eek out those extra little bits of accuracy or luxuriously fitted/feeling parts, and nothing wrong with someone who wants to get 90-95% there (performance wise) with a DD, Sionics, Colt or BCM either. simple as that folks

I've been wanting to build rifle using Hodge's receivers, hand guard, and barrel but I never seem to be able to catch the various parts in stock. I'll grab a barrel if I can sell off some of my excess parts and install into an existing upper.

I'm most interested in hard-use barrels that can provide decent accuracy using readily available ammunition. I'm not going to be using M855A1, but I have some MK262 and MK318 that would be a good choice for one of Hodge's barrels.

Where did you get a black one?  I have the grey rail and matching receiver set but wish I had a black one.

If you mean me, I stumbled across it on the EE last week.

Whoops! Forgot about this thread.

HDSI intent is to provide a very refined product to discerning end users, whoever that may be. Jim once told me he was trying to create the 'AI' of gas guns. Maybe not the perfect analogy but I understand the concept.

Test data can absolutely be considered sensitive/IP. For instance, Picatinny started doing laser bore mapping (a very cool technology). This stuff isn't shared outside of the vendor or Picatinny. The M855A1 magazine conformance studies were the same thing. Some performance data just isn't shared. As far as SEP goes, it wasn't a regular procurement, but the durability assessment test criteria is standardized, not optimized for any one solicitation. You could maybe FOIA for that test criteria. Anyways, just because there hasn't been a formal RFI/RFP and open solicitation on FBO does not mean they aren't in use. Either way, that just isn't the primary intent of HSDI. You can call him anytime and ask - that IS, I'd argue, the primary intent of FNHUSA, hence the FN Pro line. Those, I'd argue, are the best uppers for the money I could buy. Next up would be the Centurion CM4s, then KAC Mod 2s.

As far as building a 'better' gun, better is a completely subjective thing. Objectively, I can build a similar gun and get somewhat close, but not without using some of his specified parts in the first place. A self-specced' and assembled parts gun may yield 100% the performance someone is looking for for their use, and that's okay. Even I cannot match an AU Mod 1 for performance, longevity or feel for the same cost or difficulty in getting parts. I suppose I could call SOLGW and ask for a Gen 2 receiver set in the white and then find someone to electropolish anodize it, but what's the cost and time associated with that? Then I can't get access to new alloys coming down the pipeline soon. Etc., etc. I just can't do it.

Side note, I did manage to snag a Wedgelock 7075 13.625" rail on a serious stroke of luck just prior to running a shooting course in Arkansas ( @CPH ), and it is glorious with Magpul rail panels. I drive it around faster than the Pinchlock, but best believe I have to have a 1913 rail section on the bottom front in the event I use a Harris bipod! I'm eagerly anticipating the third rail in the lineup. It seems thus far to have the best of both worlds plus a few unique features I've not seen before, but I'm holding final judgement until I get it in hand and beat it up some.

ETA - I wonder if KAC would be willing to do a slightly heavier/tapered contour on a Mod 2? That would certainly close the gap a bit!
@jefflebowski

S/F

Secret sauce barrels...
Bujahahahaja.
Funny how the best barrels made are no secret.
Cut barrel, handlapped, and expensive.
And outshooting secret sauce Barrels all day long.

'the best'

Best for what? What's funny about making a blanket statement and not qualifying it? It's like folks claiming they have sub minute guns - for how many rounds? What rate of fire? What ammo? Any velocity loss? IF applicable what does the gas port look like?

I've shot personal and issued guns with blanks made by Lilja, Bartlein, Krieger, Satern, Obermeyer, Broughton, Brux, Hawk Hill, Northern Comp, Douglas, Criterion, Proof, and more.

Chambered right, with nothing else wrong in the equation (using known good ammo), yeah most of them have shot phenomenal groups, all better than what an HDSI barrel has shot. Take a good Krieger chambered with a .223 Wylde reamer and push about 4.5-5k rounds through it, that is no longer the case. You'd really start to see it at about 300 yards - a tight group in an X ring, and 3-4 flyers radial to that group in the 9 ring...

Different tools for different tasks, dude. Hard use assault rifles being shot from 0-500 need to be sub 2 MOA for every shot it fires over a long lifetime. Sub 1 MOA? Doable, but you cannot say one doesn't pay a price to be there 100% of shots fired.

S/F

If this thread has taught me anything, it's that the average person's reading comprehension is pretty bad.

Quote from Weapon Outfitters IG page:  
"While we Americans were debating 4140 vs 4150, turns out the Europeans were developing superior steels with greater density, strength, consistency and fabrication properties. The HK416 famously uses GKH steel, and now we have folks like Hodge Defense pushing the limits with cutting edge steel and fabrication. Taking in amortization and enhanced performance over a longer time... superior barrels are absolutely worth the cost!"

https://www.instagram.com/p/ByD4wTAncen/?igshid=1mtq33ko7slzi

I heard Hodge doesn’t even chrome line their gas ports.

This got my attention. I'm over here signing up on notification lists just to get one measly Pinch Lock sometime in the next few months and then you go and post this.

Could you please offer any hints about it? Specifically, does the mounting system require anything like the pin of the Wedge or can all mounting hardware be used with a standard type of upper? (I'm running an IA WAR upper that can't really be drilled for a pin.) Also, can you offer a crude ETA to public vendors?

I appreciate your contributions to this site and thread.

I like that pinch rail. I am surprised that they did not engineer a anti rotation tab(s) as a lot of upper receivers do not have a hole in them to mate up with the pin.