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Posted: 5/11/2019 12:28:00 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes, all over. Go to your LGS and you’ll see them.... |
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Posted: 5/11/2019 12:36:19 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Cool. Which ones also smashed the m27 and M4A1 during SEP testing? |
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Posted: 5/11/2019 12:37:27 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Link? |
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Posted: 5/11/2019 12:45:33 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hodge rifles have been tested at Picatinny as part of the Army SEP program, and subjected to the same 24k M855A1 durability protocol as the M4A1 and M27. It crushed them both. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I don't have a dog in this fight but I will say their specs are very "common". Help me understand the difference. What testing or evidence do you have to support that claim? I have a Criterion barrel that I would be hard-pressed to believe this Hodge barrel is better than. 
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Link? But for real though, link or picture of the data? I'll admit that it doesn't sound impressive that a CHF FN barrel (M249 spec likely like Noveske) beat out a standard made Colt M4 barrel. Not to mention the barrel profile was probably better on the Hodge than the dumb Govt profile, which will give a nod to Hodge. Were the barrels used same length, profile, etc? |
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Posted: 5/11/2019 12:49:20 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks. Reading more about them they sound a lot like SOLGW. By that I mean, they don't actually make anything, they partner with other companies to get the specs they want. I was surprised when I saw that Hodge used 9310 QPQ bolts. Toolcraft likely. FN made barrels. Looks like Jim is/was active on TOS. And he's is Texas. I like them already Yes, Hodge leverages industry. It makes no sense not to. That way the best of their kind products can be incorporated into the same product. Also, by doing some of the consulting and licensing for companies like FN, development and testing costs are obviously diffused. No link or internal memos coming from me. You'll just have to choose to believe GS5414 and myself, or not. Ps. M27 barrels are kinda beefy... The Hodge barrel is unique to Hodge. Noveske barrels by FN are not even made out of the same steel. Hodge barrels used are the same as you can buy when they're in stock, as far as I know. There arent two versions of them (unless you count Daniel Defense barrels used on earlier Mod 1 guns) |
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Posted: 5/11/2019 1:14:12 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Cool. Which ones also smashed the m27 and M4A1 during SEP testing? So again, another common AR.... built buy a guy who probably knows what he’s doing, but so do thousands others. Where is any innovation? Where is the proof of innovation (patents, metallurgy reports, etc.). It seems the product is backed by a slogan; a bad one at that, without any data to show that it’s better than the competition. |
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Posted: 5/11/2019 1:18:00 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The BCGs are not Toolcraft, but none have ever broken of which I am aware, including during the 24k round m855a1 testing. Yes, Hodge leverages industry. It makes no sense not to. That way the best of their kind products can be incorporated into the same product. Also, by doing some of the consulting and licensing for companies like FN, development and testing costs are obviously diffused. No link or internal memos coming from me. You'll just have to choose to believe GS5414 and myself, or not. Ps. M27 barrels are kinda beefy... The Hodge barrel is unique to Hodge. Noveske barrels by FN are not even made out of the same steel. Hodge barrels used are the same as you can buy when they're in stock, as far as I know. There arent two versions of them (unless you count Daniel Defense barrels used on earlier Mod 1 guns) |
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Posted: 5/11/2019 6:20:22 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That means nothing without the data. Smashed? I’m what way? Just the barrel? Did it look cooler? What was the criteria? So again, another common AR.... built buy a guy who probably knows what he’s doing, but so do thousands others. Where is any innovation? Where is the proof of innovation (patents, metallurgy reports, etc.). It seems the product is backed by a slogan; a bad one at that, without any data to show that it’s better than the competition. This is what I meant earlier, to a T. |
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Posted: 5/11/2019 6:46:23 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You prove my earlier point so well. You're owed none of this. You don't have that data from any other manufacturer, yet you act like Hodge must provide it to you. No. You aren't entitled to IP from anyone. This is what I meant earlier, to a T. |
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Posted: 5/11/2019 8:23:20 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Of course I’m not ‘owed’ any of it. And the data is there for other manufacturers.... look at the patents from KAC, LMT, LWRC.... innovation.... moving forward.... some places choose not to patent things because then the secret sauce is out there, and when the patent expires, anyone can copy. FN would already have their ‘secret sauce’ for the barrels.... so my point still stands. It’s a common AR... it just has parts hand selected for fit. Anyone else can do that. -what are sr16 bolts made of? LMT bolts? -who supplies KACs barrels for the sr16? -what is the metallurgy report on the Noveske "m249" barrel? -what testing did KAC do for the new MOD 2 gas system regarding kinematics? None of this is public confirmation available. It is what it is. |
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Posted: 5/11/2019 8:30:42 PM EDT
[#11]
So...KAC or Hodge?
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Posted: 5/11/2019 8:53:30 PM EDT
[#12]
7/8 barrels that I’ve placed into BCM uppers required thermo fitting, so that would be a start.
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Posted: 5/11/2019 8:54:40 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So...KAC or Hodge? |
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Posted: 5/11/2019 8:55:13 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
7/8 barrels that I’ve placed into BCM uppers required thermo fitting, so that would be a start. |
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Posted: 5/11/2019 8:58:06 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I prefer Hodge for the barrel, and the material of the upper and lower, but think KAC has a better BCG and more innovative gas system with the MOD 2 setup. |
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Posted: 5/11/2019 8:59:32 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For longevity or accuracy? Or both? |
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Posted: 5/11/2019 9:00:48 PM EDT
[#17]
Thanks. Hoping to try one eventually!
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Posted: 5/11/2019 9:08:04 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks. Hoping to try one eventually! |
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Posted: 5/11/2019 9:18:11 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you can get FN to formulate the steel and produce the barrels with your bore specs, as well as hold your suppliers to a thermal fit standard on uppers, yes, anyone can. Noone else does at this time. -what are sr16 bolts made of? LMT bolts? -who supplies KACs barrels for the sr16? -what is the metallurgy report on the Noveske "m249" barrel? -what testing did KAC do for the new MOD 2 gas system regarding kinematics? None of this is public confirmation available. It is what it is. |
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Posted: 5/11/2019 9:41:47 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You can look up their patents for the products... KAC bolt, has system, lwrc barrel system, etc... all the info is out there. Not sure about KAC barrel, but if that’s all that hodge has, which is the claim of longevity, that’s nothing. I can build it, as well as tens of thousands of others, cheaper. |
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Posted: 5/11/2019 9:53:17 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
BCM has indeed began as of a year or two trying to do this as well. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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7/8 barrels that I’ve placed into BCM uppers required thermo fitting, so that would be a start. |
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Posted: 5/11/2019 10:59:34 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I do believe that it’s been well beyond the past 1-2 years. This certainly isn’t something that Hodge came up with prior. |
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Posted: 5/11/2019 11:28:52 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When did BCM start? I know Hodge was the first doing 0.074 ports on 14.5s, as a collab with DD, and then later Geissele and DD used the same port data on the ill fated URGs. I do know Hodge has been using those upper tolarances for at least half a decade. Not sure about BCM. But do know their press release on it was more recent. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: I do believe that it’s been well beyond the past 1-2 years. This certainly isn’t something that Hodge came up with prior. BCM has been using tight fitting receiver extensions since at least 2013, and likely before then. |
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Posted: 5/12/2019 3:13:53 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You prove my earlier point so well. You're owed none of this. You don't have that data from any other manufacturer, yet you act like Hodge must provide it to you. No. You aren't entitled to IP from anyone. This is what I meant earlier, to a T. I called the number on Hodge's website, and guess who answered the phone, the guy whose name is on the rifle and he gave me all info I needed. Dont give these entitled millennials anything they don't deserve it. |
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Posted: 5/12/2019 5:45:21 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Waaaaaaa!!! Mommy, I want to be hand fed information instead of getting it myself. Is all Im hearing from these trolls. I called the number on Hodge's website, and guess who answered the phone, the guy whose name is on the rifle and he gave me all info I needed. Dont give these entitled millennials anything they don't deserve it. |
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Posted: 5/12/2019 8:50:20 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Matthew seemed to have a genuine interest, and I'm happy to answer, but where there was just trolling, I dont mind responding for the sake of the silent lurkers who are curious. ETA: I did the same thing and it was $700 more for the complete. So $700 assembly. |
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Posted: 5/12/2019 10:30:54 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It’s not a troll because it upset you.... I’m genuinely curious about what puts them in the price bracket they’re in... and so far, I haven’t found anything except claims of the best barrel which is subjective. From what I understand, it’s a guy that sources to industry for parts that be acquired cheaper. I think another poster said that he prices then parts from their site to build an upper vs a complete upper sans bolt/CH and it was 1k more for the complete. That appears to be a markup on labor. ETA: I did the same thing and it was $700 more for the complete. So $700 assembly. As to the barrel, it's not really subjective, you just don't have access to the test data, nor is it anyone's place to hand you what you cannot yourself reach for and grasp for yourself. A great example was John Noveske's barrels back in the day. You would be the guy saying "I'll just buy a PacNor barrel and make it myself for less!" Well...go right ahead. It won't be a BAD gun for sure, but it also won't compete with the real deal if you pushed 'em both HARD. That may not matter to you though, but just because you don't plan t o drive 200mph doesn't mean the GT2 isn't "more car" than the 9114S. |
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Posted: 5/12/2019 10:52:27 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He contracts with industry to make parts to his spec. Forge the personal relationships and order in volume and THEN you can start considering how you'd build a cheaper but equal mousetrap. Are you going to call MEGA up (ZEV) and have them set aside machine time, etc. while you develop a rail for them to produce for you? As to the barrel, it's not really subjective, you just don't have access to the test data, nor is it anyone's place to hand you what you cannot yourself reach for and grasp for yourself. A great example was John Noveske's barrels back in the day. You would be the guy saying "I'll just buy a PacNor barrel and make it myself for less!" Well...go right ahead. It won't be a BAD gun for sure, but it also won't compete with the real deal if you pushed 'em both HARD. That may not matter to you though, but just because you don't plan t o drive 200mph doesn't mean the GT2 isn't "more car" than the 9114S. |
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Posted: 5/12/2019 10:57:10 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote History[b]Quoted:[/b
As to the barrel, it's not really subjective, you just don't have access to the test data, nor is it anyone's place to hand you what you cannot yourself reach for and grasp for yourself. As far as who thought of the things first, Mega was making thermal fit uppers for many years. And Hodges barrel profile is very oddly similar to BA's Hanson profile, which has been around forever. Again, the Hodge stuff looks good, but doesn't look to be far and away better or even better at all than other companies out there. |
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Posted: 5/12/2019 11:36:23 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I like the Hodge stuff, but it's still subjective. As far as who thought of the things first, Mega was making thermal fit uppers for many years. And Hodges barrel profile is very oddly similar to BA's Hanson profile, which has been around forever. Again, the Hodge stuff looks good, but doesn't look to be far and away better or even better at all than other companies out there. |
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Posted: 5/12/2019 11:56:22 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It depends on what you want it for. In its niche, nothing has been able to compete with it. |
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Posted: 5/12/2019 7:53:20 PM EDT
[#32]
How can a company who is in no way even trying to sell to ARFCOM’ers be a gimmick?
They are interested in consulting, building some badass improved carbines for gov agencies, and when they have some over-run, they have a build party and offer the leftovers to the civilian market. Jim Hodge will be just fine if you don’t buy his stuff |
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Posted: 5/12/2019 8:55:44 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How can a company who is in no way even trying to sell to ARFCOM’ers be a gimmick? They are interested in consulting, building some badass improved carbines for gov agencies, and when they have some over-run, they have a build party and offer the leftovers to the civilian market. Jim Hodge will be just fine if you don’t buy his stuff |
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Posted: 5/12/2019 10:18:36 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well he went to the civvy commercial market.... and has almost no govt contracts.... so he is trying to sell to us. And I’m not saying it’s a gimmick. I’m asking what’s so special? How does anything on one of the hodge guns make them perform better? Last longer? Shoot softer? More reliable? More accurate? I get that it’s an OCD build, but don’t see any performance value there. No is answering that question. |
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Posted: 5/12/2019 10:34:24 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
All those have been answered. You just want IP and you're not getting it so you're doubling down. |
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Posted: 5/12/2019 10:36:18 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There you go again.... hiding. No, I don’t want IP and no, they haven’t. What do his improvements do (not asking for the IP) that make the rifle a better rifle? Give some examples. Shit or get off the pot man... if you can answer that, then please do. I legitimately want to know. I don’t think you can though. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
All those have been answered. You just want IP and you're not getting it so you're doubling down. |
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Posted: 5/12/2019 10:48:09 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's almost like you refused to read it the first time multiple people, including one Carlos Hathcock awardee, explained this in detail to you as much as could be done without getting into IP. |
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Posted: 5/12/2019 11:12:29 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Anecdotal evidence. There’s plenty of that out there for peoples $500 PSA builds too.... |
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Posted: 5/12/2019 11:42:02 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well he went to the civvy commercial market.... and has almost no govt contracts.... so he is trying to sell to us. And I’m not saying it’s a gimmick. I’m asking what’s so special? How does anything on one of the hodge guns make them perform better? Last longer? Shoot softer? More reliable? More accurate? I get that it’s an OCD build, but don’t see any performance value there. No is answering that question. My take is it’s all built around handling the M855A1. We really haven’t seen the real long term characteristics and effects of the higher pressure M855A1 load. Hasn’t been in service long enough. His aluminum lithium receivers are lighter and stronger than typical 7075-T6. How much “better”? IDK. Hodge has sourced just about every part to his specifications or standards. You can’t say that all the components are just off the shelf items. There are some improvements, even down to the hardguard. Just because FN makes the barrel, doesn’t mean it’s the same as PSA barrel. I can tell you other than my SR15 Mod 2, the Hodge was one of the softest shooting carbines I’ve ever shot. Fit and finish was superb. But for the price, I’ll stick with KAC for now. |
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Posted: 5/13/2019 12:10:47 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well, if the SEP program overseen by the Army and Picatinny are "anecdotal evidence", then I think your questions are beyond my ability to address. |
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Posted: 5/13/2019 12:29:17 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So post the results. I’d like to see the criteria and the results. |
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Posted: 5/13/2019 12:37:13 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Im sure you would. |
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Posted: 5/13/2019 1:44:09 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Exactly.... these results don’t quote portray what you’ve been saying, do they? Rofl. You've missed the boat. Im happy with the data at my disposal, and my money goes to Hodge guns. I answered questions for those who were curious. It's not my job to convince you of anything, or to justify my own purchases. |
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Posted: 5/13/2019 5:23:37 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "Yes I shared the data on open forum with someone who had no access. Well yeah it was sensible. They were wheedling and cajoling! I had to leak it!" Rofl. You've missed the boat. Im happy with the data at my disposal, and my money goes to Hodge guns. I answered questions for those who were curious. It's not my job to convince you of anything, or to justify my own purchases. |
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Posted: 5/13/2019 6:27:49 AM EDT
[#45]
More boutique stuff just like Wilson...
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Posted: 5/13/2019 8:21:26 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Submit your request through the proper channels and Picatinny will supply the data. |
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Posted: 5/13/2019 8:27:39 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lol, so basically, "the data is there, and it is awesome, but you'll have to take my word for it because the data is as secret sauce as the barrel" |
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Posted: 5/13/2019 9:28:49 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "Yes I shared the data on open forum with someone who had no access. Well yeah it was sensible. They were wheedling and cajoling! I had to leak it!" Rofl. You've missed the boat. Im happy with the data at my disposal, and my money goes to Hodge guns. I answered questions for those who were curious. It's not my job to convince you of anything, or to justify my own purchases. 
Are you starting to realize why this site is considered a joke by SMEs. The fact that even Jordan showed up to add input in this thread, who probably should be considered an AR engineering SME shows just how much good info there is in this thread yet the children still choose to put their fingers in their ears and yell "nah nah nah nah". |
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Posted: 5/13/2019 9:39:12 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I did warn you about getting trolled by crayon eaters with big mouths didn't I?
Are you starting to realize why this site is considered a joke by SMEs. The fact that even Jordan showed up to add input in this thread, who probably should be considered an AR engineering SME shows just how much good info there is in this thread yet the children still choose to put their fingers in their ears and yell "nah nah nah nah". |
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Posted: 5/13/2019 10:15:02 AM EDT
[#50]
Despite all the nay sayers, haters and appearance of secret sauce- I still want one!
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