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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Tacpoint test and range report (Page 3 of 4)
The Aimpoint had sure ought to be better than the Tacpoint!! It costs over three times as much! The question then becomes, is it really three times more reliable/durable/whateverable. An intriguing question is, what would Hakko charge to meet the same milspec as Aimpoint? That's where the rubber would meet the road in my opinion. Of course, the DoD would have to put out a RFP and Hakko would have to be willing to compete. Who knows?! Interesting thought though. |
I think the real question is will the tacpoint be around? At the shot show Aimpoint was talking sueing their ass! C4 |
If the Tacpoint is such a piece of shit, WHY would Aimpoint feel threatened by Hakko? If it's a piece of crap, people won't buy it, and Aimpoint wouldn't have to worry about suing them. But given that they ARE thinking about it ... (things that make you go "Hmmmmmm"). |
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Hmm I see that you are STILL having reading comprehension issues (see the other post where you couldn't read my posts correctly either). Maybe if I make the words in bold you will be able to see them better. I have NEVER said that the tacpoint is a POS! I believe that the reason that Aimpoint is pissed is that they (hakko) stole their patent! Wouldn't you be just a little ticked if you spent a lot of money on R&D only to have some company rip you off??? Lord knows I would!!! Please buy the tacpoint, hell buy 100 of them for all I care. Just don't come whining to us when it breaks and you cannot get any support for them! And yes I know they have a limited lifetime warranty, but if the company no longer exists how good is that warranty?  C4 |
Define stealing a patent? Red dots are pretty common, many of them share similar to nearly identical designs, this is like trying to deal with motorcycle helmet companies. All of them meat the same standards with only fairly minor differences and those being in how quiet a lid they are. Sure your $150 HJC won't compare in noise reduction to a $600 Arai but they both meet DOT and SNELL standards. Neither of them offer significantly different head protection. |
| I think aimpoint would have a hard time makeing a case. The tacpoint only resembles the aimpoint. It is not an exact copy. It uses diiferent internals. the battery life is not as long as the aimpoint, and the external diminsions are not identicle. Aimpoint sueing Hakko over the tacpoint would be like Armalite or colt sueing RRA, Mega, DPMS, Oly, Calv Arms, PWA, and all the other AR clone companies out there just because they look like the original .... |
People sue for a lot less and WIN all the time. I am just repeating what Aimpoint said to me. I could really care less if they do or not.. C4 |
Hmmm ... I see that you are STILL running around basing your subjective opinions on absolute ZERO testing and/or performance results. You never said it was a POS in those exact words. However, I think we're all intelligent enough read through your various comments and opinions to be able to draw a conclusion on how you feel about the Tacpoints. Oh, and I love the claims about how Hakko "ripped off" Aimpoint and stole their patent. In addition to your skills and methodologies in product comparisons, do you ALSO have a law degree and practice patent law on the side? Wow. You must be one S-M-A-R-T guy ... |
No, people sue for a lot less and SETTLE all the time. Companies know that frivilous lawsuits will cost them much LESS if they just settle out of court for a few bucks, instead of paying 100 or 500 times as much defending themselves. Does that mean a company 'stole a patent' or that the 'victim' REALLY slipped and fell because of an unsafe floor at the supermarket? NO, it doesn't. It means people will sue for ANY reason, just to get FREE MONEY, and it's cheaper for insurance companies to settle instead of defend themselves. No, they don't WIN all the time. |
I think you are wanting to read what you want in my posts. You are the only one that keeps saying that I said it is a POS. No one else thinks that (only you). You have a very low post count and am wondering if you have some kind relationship with hakko. It seems funny that you have had an account since 2003, but only 22 posts (w/ most of your posts coming in the last couple of days). In fact you seem to have an emotional attachment to this argument as if you owned hakko or something. We have seen this time and time again from other manufactures that can't stand to see someone put down their product or identify issues with it. My statement about hakko ripping off Aimpoint comes from them (not me). They feel that hakko is stealing their patent. Since I don't work for Aimpoint I could really care less about it and was simply expressing their displeasure with the tacpoint. The only comparison I have done between the tacpoint and the Aimpoint is where they are made and that is the only info I need to know!  C4 |
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Grant save your keyboard time for people that really want to learn, these TacPoint guys are not going to understand you, all they see is that it looks like a Aimpoint and they do not have to spend the extra cash to get the real thing to look cool. A no shit rifleman would not spend his hard earned cash on a copy that does not have a provin track record What really gets me is the guys who bitch about if you have a Aimpoint then you are the in/cool crowd. Well if thats the case I'm glad I'm part of the in/cool crowd who needs a real Aimpoint for work instead of a POS copy. If you guys want a Aimpoint then save your pennies and buy a real Aimpoint, otherwise go buy a diffrent red dot not an Aimpoint look alike which only shows me that you really only want a true Aimpoint. |
WTF!?! |
I dont feel the vendor is treating members like trash, he is only trying to help everyone see the light. C4 is expressing his opinion. The moderator on the other hand, well.... thats another story. |
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Some people have such thin skin and NO sense of humor! I think it is agreed that 1. the TACPOINT is not MILSPEC 2. the AIMPOINT is MILSPEC 3. That MILSPEC is better, or a higher stnadard that something that is not MILSPEC 4. That the TACPOINT is PROBABLY not going to be as tough as the AIMPOINT on average 5. That the TACPOINT is a good Value for someone who understands it limitations and does not need the proven toughness of the AIMPOINT Did I miss something here? |
What just because I'm a Mod means I can't have a opinion? I don't care where you guys spend your hard earned cash, all I'm saying is the Tacpoint is a waste of money.  If you want a red dot then go buy a BSA at Wally World. You can save 70 bucks and spend the money you save on ammo that's all. If your buying the Tacpoint then what you really want is a Aimpoint and you should just save your cash until you can afford one. And no I am not treating anyone like trash! thats a little below the belt. If you cant handle a little rubbing I'm sorry  hope you feel better now.
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I'm not bickering, I'm only telling the truth I'll leave you guys alone now. I can see you guys wont listen.
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Actually, you did. (1,2,3) MILSPEC does NOT guarantee a better product. We all know this, and even the most avid critics of the Tacpoint have admitted this. Is it highly PROBABLE that a product that meets milspec is better? Well, it SHOULD. But, again, milspec does NOT guarantee a better product. Besides, who's to say that a manufacturer can not or will not build a better product than a competitor's milspec product? Is there a rule that states a company CAN'T build a better product if it has not been subjected to the government's specifications? Hardly. (4) You used the word "probably". That, in and of itself, speaks volumes. I've never asked for anything other than objective tests and test results BEFORE hauling off and making unfounded, inaccurate and prejudiced comments about a product that the person has never tested. That's all, nothing more. Just solid test results under fair conditions. But, apparently, that's too much to ask of some. I wonder if it's because some are worried that it *might not* turn out in their favor. Hmmmm. One never knows. (5) See #4 above. You're making broad assumptions based on untested bias posted on an internet discussion board. Is that how you normally conduct yourself? Myself, I'd rather have SOLID data to back up my claims BEFORE making statements like "it is junk". There are some on this board, however, that don't bother with trivial items like "proof", "test results" and "factual data". |
This is the best part of this thread. You should start a new topic and I'll tell you stories of Mr. Jack Daniels vs. Ahab. Or rather, I would if I could remember any of them. 
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Then an argument based on "this one is MILSPEC and the other isn't" is ... well ... pointless. Of course, the next question would then become: Is it AIMpointless or TACpointless ?? :) :) |
There MAY be a hole in that theory, IF, in fact the Japanese Self Defense Force DOES issue Tacpoints. Remember. I said IF...  Lonny |
I wouldn't put any weight in the Japanese CIVIL (unarmed) defense force's opinion of ANYTHING. Worked with them while stationed in Japan... C4 |
Actually, in my case that's not true at all. I've been following posts on how these work out for a while now since I do only want something for plinking for now. Maybe I'll upgrade later when I have more money. Really the only reason I'm getting one is that they seem to be getting good reviews, and somebody at the FALFiles organized a group buy, so for $95 shipped I get what seems to be something that will serve me just fine for my needs till I can afford something else. I couldn't care less what it looks like, if I had seen it on it's own I wouldn't even know it was an AIMPOINT copy, hell they all look just about the same to me, I guess that's because I don't spend all my time worshipping at the tactical altar, pining for highspeed gear. |
Whatever happened? Are they sending you a new one? Did you shoot the AR with it yet? Did it hold zero? The water getting into the optic pretty much rules it out for me. If it's just a "fun scope" then I can't see what the advantage of it over a BSA (I guess except that it'll work with existing aimpoint mounts) |
I think Nikon also makes a lower priced red dot scope. I've used that eastern european scope that Cavarms sells (I can't think of the name). It's not bad based on the limited shooting I have done with it. I have two friends that have them on ARs and they work okay, but I don't think there are "clicks" for the elevation and windage adjustment though. |
I'm under the inpression that they have some paralax problems, and the optics rattle. There is also a chance I might put this on my FAL, and I thought they wouldn't take the recoil very well. Cavarms has the OKO, and that is what I was going to buy until I found all this info on the Tacpoints, but they are still $250 (I think) and they are just plastic, so if you want to beef them up a bit you need to buy some other accessories, which adds to cost. I still might get one later, that "Heads-up" kind of red-dot actually appeals to me more than the tube style. |
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Yes, as I already posted previously they ARE sending me a new Tacpoint to replace my first one which should arrive today or tommorrow. So I guess that answers the question about Hakko honoring their lifetime warranty (vs 10 years on the Aimpoint). What I don't understand is how people who have never even seen the Tacpoint firsthand automatically know that it is junk and will never come close to the almighty Aimpoint. Let's use some logic here and look at FACTS instead of blind religious devotion to a brand name. Fact #1: From what I have seen nobody has really made the outright claim that the Tacpoint is as good or better than the Aimpoint. That should end some of these ridiculous arguments right there. Fact #2: Besides the not so scientific tests that I have done I haven't really seen much else as far as torture testing of the Tacpoint. So basically the OBJECTIVE data just isn't there. So, until there are some SCIENTIFIC tests done with reasonable sample sizes (ie not just one but hundreds if not thousands of units) we just don't know what the Tacpoint can stand up to. Question: How can you make absolute statements about a product that for one, you have zero experience with and two, there are have been no real OBJECTIVE and SCIENTIFIC tests done to prove what you say? Untile you have OBJECTIVE evidence anything that comes out of your mouth is just hot air. Fact #3: The Aimpoint DOES have OBJECTIVE data in the form of military testing and battle experience which has proven it to be a quality optic. So, we know we can trust it whereas the Tacpoint doesn't have the OBJECTIVE data so it is questionable. Therefore if your life is on the line buy the Aimpoint. This DOES NOT however OBJECTIVELY PROVE that the Aimpoint is superior to the Tacpoint. It is a matter of a lot of test data vs. very little test data. Fact #4: The Aimpoint is NOT indestructible. Several references and links posted earlier have alluded to Aimpoints breaking in the field and getting water on the inside. NO OPTIC IS FAIL PROOF! I don't care how much you paid for it IT CAN BE BROKEN! If your optic is so tough then why do you have BUIS? Does anyone in combat have so much faith in their Aimpoint that they are willing to go out without their BUIS? Yeah, I didn't think so. I am not saying the the Tacpoint is better than the Aimpoint nor am I saying that it is just as good. No one is saying that so CALM DOWN. On the contrary I would suggest that we must assume that the Aimpoint is better until we see some OBJECTIVE testing done which compares the Tacpoint to the Aimpoint. The burden of proof lies with the Tacpoint at this point. However anyone who makes claims about the quality or lack thereof of EITHER optic without providing some OBJECTIVE proof is only blowing hot air and deserves no attention. Your post is worth nothing if you provide ZERO FACTS about the claims you make. Anyone with a thinking brain will realize this. I just can't figure out why some people are so pissed about the Tacpoint. Calm down and think before you waste space posting nothing but unsubstantiated claims and opinions with no firsthand experience. I have lost a lot of respect for some of the people on this board. This post is an appeal to the people with enough of a brain to realize that claims like: "It's made in Japan so it must be junk" have absolutely no basis in fact or logic and should be ignored. |
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The Springfield Armory/Hakko (I think) scope I put on my AR10 crapped out after about 250 rounds, the reticle rotated within the scope. Springfield armory did fix it promptly and for free, but I just don't know if it's worth the bother of messing around with it any further, I broke down and replaced it with a Leupold. I should probably give it another shot and see it if holds up better this time. Good luck |
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That does seem a little suspect since the Hakko Tacpoint isn't even on their web page... Are the claims of the Guarder equal to those of the Tacpoint as far as warranty, price, and quality? Or does the Guarder specifically say it's for Airsofts? This one doesn't really say who the manufacturer is... I assume it's, Guarder since I found it doing a Yahoo! search for Guarder. Link. I'm pretty much sold on one of these. I don't give a rats ass about the durability as long as it doesn't fall apart when I'm bench shooting it's good enough for me. Ya see, I live in reality, where I don't spend 99% of my time/money expecting the proverbial shit to hit the fan. I outgrew my Red Dawn fantasy days a long time ago. I don't plan on saving the world pretending to be Solid Snake or Sam Fisher, running around my house with my ninja mask (made from a t-shirt) training up for when the zombie epidemic hits. I'll accept my fate with the skills (or lack of skills) that I have. If the Tacpoint fails me, then I'll spray and pray until I flip my BUIS. All this bashing of the “budget” scopes and the downfalls of buying a “budget” scope has been cracking me up all day. Why? Because I picture guys sitting at their PC’s ordering and spending absurd amounts of money on the “high quality” name brand gear. They buy this gear that is supposed to be super durable and nearly indestructible, yet they probably can’t run a block without having three heart attacks. The “budget” scopes would probably outperform some of the plugs themselves. I want to see some of these guys do the “drop test” with their weapons… see if the weight of their own fat asses doesn’t break their backs… maybe snap a femur or fibula. All this talk about “you gotta have the ‘good stuff’ for WTSHTF, otherwise you’re screwed”. I’m sure these guys are making these statements while they’re taking a Powerbar break from their backyard obstacle course, as they must always be preparing their bodies for WTSHTF as well as their gear. Yep, no doubt the skills/stamina of all the Aimpoint/ACOG owners are on a par with their $350-950 scopes, so that they perform just as well as their gear. That’s not to say I don’t believe there are guys out there who do actually put their quality scopes to the test… but I know most SOCOM operators don’t run around bragging about their abilities and shitting all over the guys who clearly aren’t “ninjas”. SO I have my doubts about some of the people who make these claims. It’s simply TOO easy for someone to talk up a good game in this sort of media. Watch a few guy movies, sit in on the discussions in a few other forums, pick up the lingo, do a little research on the net, and bam… you have the makings of a Chairborne Ranger. Have you seen pictures of the AR’s owned by some of the guys who talk a big game… their AR’s AND scopes are nearly pristine… fucking safe queens. On a side note, I own a Leupold CQ/T and I love it and have no regrets about spending the sick amount of money on it. But I’m not claiming to be charging through the desert or taking down tangos in a crackhouse. I bought it because I had the money saved up, established the criteria for what I wanted in a scope, did the research and the CQ/T was the one that fit all of what I wanted in a scope for my AR. If I happen to use it to take out some zombies down the road then it just sweetens the deal, but I’m not pushing it on anyone and I try not to bash other people’s choices just because they don’t have what I have… and if they want to buy the budget version of a CQ/T, then by all means do. But that’s just me… I could be wrong. |
| What exactly do pictures of aimpoint clones off of an airsoft page prove Boom? None of those pics is a Tacpoint from what I can see. Another post with only the intention of degrading others. I hope anyone with half a brain can see what is going on here and use logic and objective reasoning and come to their own conclusions. |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Tacpoint test and range report (Page 3 of 4)
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