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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Tacpoint test and range report (Page 4 of 4)
If you think that me calling some of these guys toytards is degrading then you sir have very very thin skin. I'm sorry if you cannot handle the way I talk with ppl, I always tell it like it is and never coat it with suger on top. I am not one to use tac when it comes to talking about guns. This site is for the teaching and learning of real firearms not toy products. I have not resorted to calling names other then toytards and I called the product a POS. After I said that the airsoft crew came out of the wood work and has been trying to stomp me into the ground. I will say it here again, the Tacpoint is a POS toy optic. Please do not try to up play the optic as you have in this thread, the fact you started this thread shows you are looking for a cheap optic that compares to the Aimpoint. If you want a real Aimpoint then go buy one. |
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Once again Boom you prove your ignorance for all to see. YOU have resorted to name calling, not me. YOU have degraded this thread into a flame war not me (read the first line of my original post). All I have tried to do is experiment with the optic that I bought and give OBJECTIVE evidence about the Tacpoint for the BENEFIT of others who may be interested in it. All you have done is name call and degrade others on this board. Where are your facts, where is your proof? I NEVER said that the Tacpoint is as good as the Aimpoint. In fact, I have said that I think the Aimpoint is superior, BUT for the money the Tacpoint is hard to beat. Why are you so threatened by that? You have never in the course of this thread backed up anything you have said with facts or evidence. I have backed up EVERTHING I have said with facts and evidence. Where is your credibility? How in hell are you a moderator on this board? THIS ISN'T AN AIMPOINT VS. TACPOINT WAR! Calm down and realize that some of us can't justify paying $400 dollars for an Aimpoint and we want a cheaper red dot optic that doesn't parallax and will hold a zero. I have a BSA, do you? My BSA doesn't hold a zero for shit and has parallax issues, my Tacpoint on the other hand holds a zero pretty well and doesn't parallax as I have shown in the OBJECTIVE evidence I provided (if you can understatnd the concept of objectivity). The Aimpoint is a better optic. There, are you happy now. That DOESN'T mean, however, that the Tacpoint is total crap. Your aversion to logic and objectivity perplexes me to no end. I don't know exactly why you have a problem with people spending less for an optic than you did and being just as satisfied with their purchase, but for now I suggest you switch to decaf. |
I will say it again, you are using a TOY. What does me being a mod in the feedback & comments section have to do with my opinion in the optics forum? Nothing that's the answer. I have already said I do not care what you spend your money on. Blow it, I do not care but the fact you are posting toys under a real gun board trying to create a viable excuse to put them on real guns upsets me, and for the last time the only name calling has been toytard. Are you so small that it really upsets you to be called a toytard? The money is a BS excuse, you could save the money until you have enough to buy a used Aimpoint or get another reddot that does not look like a Aimpoint. You creating a viable excuse could get someone hurt, some guy reads here that the Tacpoint is a good scope then leaves and posts on another board that yes the Tacpoint is the shit, next thing you know some cop is buying a Tacpoint to put on his duty weapon. That's great now we have a cop out there who is going to use his rifle in a life or death sit. Your lack of research could lead others down the wrong road and ppl could get hurt by it, that is my problem with this optic. The Tacpoint has been sold for years on airsoft sites under other names, dont give me the BS, oh yeah go prove it. You know its true. Use the right equipment and promote the real thing not a toy. You bet I flamed the Tacpoint, its a TOY. |
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Boom I have a question, do have any proof that the optic in question is a toy? It seem so far your evidence of this assertion is a pictures of an optic made by another company that is for sale on a airsoft board? I don't own one the sights in question, have no intentions on buying one, but am not following the logic of some of the people who are bashing it. Oh by the way if this is used by the JDSF, it probably is a cheaper knock off and a little less functional, but in the end it works. Because they may buy copies of stuff, but the stuff they buy works. |
For the 32nd time: Please provide your factual, objective test results for the side-by-side comparision that you performed in order to come to your unbiased, impartial, scientific conclusions that one particular product is better than the other. Thanks for your efforts! (P.S. - We're STILL waiting ...) |
You'll never receive a positive answer to that question, STRLN. Sometimes, being a moderator means NOT having to know the subject matter. Sometimes, being a moderator only means that you try to impress your buddies by calling products "crap", "junk" and "toys" when you, yourself, have never even laid a finger on one. Wild, huh? 
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I already posted a link to an AIRSOFT reseller website that sells (*gasp*) Aimpoint, EOTech and A.R.M.S. products (but no Tacpoints). Funny how the 'Aimpoint Army' just glossed over THAT post. Kinda like how the Clinton Administration was able to side-step Bill's 'illegitimate black child' issue (Danny Williams). |
Ya know... this thread started out really strong and has pretty much gone to hell now. How exactly does one rise to Mod status anyway? Easy with the penis pics, thanks Aimless What happened to all the testings and reports? Can't the anti-budget-optics people just leave well enough alone. Start a budget optics-bashing thread if you need to vent and link it into here, but this is just wasting a lot of peoples' time trying to sift through the crap now. ETA: I'm starting to think this site needs mods to monitor/police the mods. 
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"...dont give me the BS, oh yeah go prove it. You know its true." That is a direct quote from Boom. Are you insane? Since when is OBJECTIVE, FACTUAL, SCIENTIFIC proof BS? How do we "know its true"? Do you have any firsthand experience with the Tacpoint? Your religious zeal for the Aimpoint is comical and a little scary at the same time. I don't know what else to say to you Boom. Nothing you have said has been backed by any kind of facts or evidence whatsoever. With each post your credibility on this board disentigrates even more for all to see. No one is telling cops or military personel to use the sight. I have said numerous times that if your life depends on it get an Aimpoint. Why do have a problem with people who don't want to pay 4 times as much for an optic when they can get something that meets their needs for much less? Here's a shovel, keep digging yourself even deeper. |
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After reading all these Tacpoint threads, especially this one, I have decided to go ahead and get a Tacpoint. I am not a cop, Active military, or a member of any other entity that requires me to use my weapon in the line of duty. My rifles are a hobby. I shoot at paper at a range. For that reason the Aimpoint is not for me. I cannot justify an optic at that price for my intents and purposes. I haven't seen any evidence that the Hakko is a toy. I actually see the exact opposite. I see several reputable Internet firearms dealers selling Hakko products. On this same board I have also seen many positive posts about the older Hakko models with little to no flaming of the products. Just because this one looks like an Aimpoint it has people feathers all ruffled. An aimpoint would be great. It isn't a matter of saving my pennies. It is a matter of not wanting to spend that much money on something I do not need. Before anyone says, "Get a BSA and save $60." I did that and it didn't last long. I beleive it it isn't very shock proof since the light on mine would go off every 4-5 shots. I could turn it off and turn it back on again and get another 4-5 shots before it died. It's just my opinion. I am sure Aimpoints rock, but I will never have the need for that type of optic. Hell, worse case scenario I buy the $100 scope and find out it sucks I am out $100. Realistic scenario, I get the $100 scope and it works fine and I saved myself around $300. Seems like a fair enough gamble to me. Afterall the paper guys don't shoot back and I don't plan on falling into any bodies of water between the safe and the range. |
 Another person "brainwashed" into buying a Tacpoint Will this madness ever end... before you know it all of the Industry Partners/Dealer on here will be stocking them and making money on toys as well. MADNESS!!! ps... I'm getting one first chance I get. I hope to see both a Tacpoint and an Aimpoint at the Dulles Gun Show this weekend so I can finger f*ck them and see what the big fuss is all about. I'll pack a gallon jug of water and ask the dealer if I can do a dunk test on them.   
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Well, I have resisted entering this fray due to all the flaming and bashing going on, but I did want to add some bits of information I found. Before I do that, I will offer my general opinion on the way this whole Tacpoint discussion has been conducted, and then I will limit myself (as much as possible) to simply presenting information from which others can draw their own conclusions. Okay, here is my general opinion on the Tacpoint dicussions to date: Disgusting and sad. Some people have done an admirable job of staying out of the mud and simply presenting information without rancor, but too many on both sides have really sunk to unhelpful flaming, bashing and name calling. I'm particularly disappointed in some of the moderators. I do believe moderators should be held to higher standards than general forum members. A moderator's job, as the title implies, is to moderate. That means keeping discussions on productive tracks and calming things down when people get out of hand. It doesn't mean starting threads designed to inflame and fanning the resultant inferno. Yes, moderators are entitled to their opinions, but with the positions of responsibility they have, they ought to present those opinions rationally and without provocation (that applies whether the moderators are posting in their official forums or in other forums). Doing so would not only garner the moderators more respect, it would also make others more receptive to their arguments. Wouldn't that help everyone? With that out of the way, here is the information I have to share.
Hakko does feature the Tacpoint on their website, but only in the Japanese section as far as I can find: www.hakko-japan.co.jp/optical/japan/item/dot/dot00.htm The Tacpoint is listed under the name "Combat Tactical 9", and included in the "Combat Series" of red-dot sigts. They show three models, with the only difference appearing to be the included mount (low, high or cantilever):    At current exchange rates, list prices are $122, $131 and $151 respectively. The specifications translate as follows: 1x magnification 30 mm (1.2 inches) objective 30 mm (1.2 inches) tube size 180 cm of windage and elevation adjustment measured at 100 m (approx +/- 35 MOA) CR2032 battery powered 125 (4.9 inches) mm long 160 g (5.6 oz) weight mil-spec waterproof shockproof to 1200 G fogproof - nitrogen filled slip-on caps 13-layer anti-reflective lens coating 2-year warranty One interesting item that jumps out at me is the warranty. The Hakko website only lists a 2-year warranty versus the lifetime warranty that the U.S. distributor is apparently providing. Obviously, some of these specifications are open to interpretation, so I wrote an email to Hakko Japan specifically asking the following about the Tacpoint/Combat Tactical: 1. Are they designed for real guns (particularly the AR-15) or Airsoft? 2. Exactly whose mil-spec (and which particular one) do they claim to meet? 3. To what depth of submersion are they waterproof? 4. What country are they made in? 5. How long is the battery life? 6. How many brightness levels do they have? I realize that some of these questions have been asked and answered by others, but I wanted to see if I would get a consistent reply when I wrote to the Japanese site (in Japanese). Unfortunately, I haven't had a reply yet. It has been two days since I wrote. Maybe the email never made it, maybe my Japanese is so mangled as to be indecipherable, maybe they are busy, maybe they don't want to answer. I don't know. I'll try sending another email and will post any replies I receive. Other things I found on the Hakko website: A. Hakko was founded in 1958 and has been building rifle scopes for 41 years. They've been in the business long before there was any such thing as Airsoft. I hope no one is still under the impression that Hakko is nothing but an Airsoft accessory maker. Heck, even C4iGrant sold Hakko scopes for a while, and I don't think anyone is accusing him of being an Airsoft dealer. B. Hakko also sells a $74 red-dot sight called the "Combat Mark II Advance" that looks for all the world like BSA's RD42 (shown following the Combat Mark II Advance for reference):   BSA clearly states that the RD42 is made in China, so making the reasonable assumption that these two sights are the same, then we must conclude that Hakko makes at least some of their sights in China. Hakko's environmental specs for the Combat Mark II Advance are identical to those of the Tacpoint, leading me to question how much more durable the Tacpoint really is. C. Hakko also sells deactivated guns, which may target the same type of buyer who is prohibited from buying real firearms that Airsoft targets. Here is an example, a $4700 "Colt Match Target M16A2":  They obviously have confused the nomenclature. Any other conclusions I leave to each of you. I also found some information on other websites. There are a number of references to Hakko on snipercountry.com. The consensus over there seems to be that while Hakko does make genuine rifle scopes (including Springfield Armory's scope) and not Airsoft toys, they are a second-tier maker and not up to the same quality as other brands. That isn't earth-shattering news, but does seem to confirm the general feel I am getting for Hakko quality. More unsettling was the item I found for sale on this unabashedly Airsoft website: www.tokyo-model.com.hk/trade/productview/235 One listing on one Airsoft site does not by itself prove anything, particularly since the item could be mislabeled, but it does give me pause. I am referring not to the fact that an Airsoft website is selling Hakko. That would say nothing because apparently Airsoft retailers do sometimes sell geniuine equipment right next to the Airsoft knock-offs. What bothers me is the association of Guarder with Hakko, the first I have seen. I think everyone so far has agreed that Guarder is strictly an Airsoft maker, although I will be happily corrected if wrong. I am a novice recreational shooter, and at this time don't need equipment I can depend my life on. Nor do I want to pay the money associated with that type of top-notch equipment. Before the Tacpoint was introduced and the whole topic exploded, I had been thinking about getting a moderately priced red-dot sight. I was looking for something between the BSA, which I had handled in person and didn't like, and the expensive top-tier sights such as Aimpoint. Moderate price and moderate quality were my goals. My search had led me to Hakko's BED-24 and BED-35 sights with their multiple reticles. Then along came the Tacpoint. When I saw it I didn't expect it to have the same quality as a genuine Aimpoint. But it was a little less expensive than the BED models and looked more rugged with its full tube design. It also didn't hurt that it had the same form factor as the Aimpoint and thus had more mounting options. Therefore, I was interested in finding out more about it. I still am, but I have to admit I am a little worried about some of the information I have dug up. I guess I will just have to wait for more people to report their real-world experience from actual handling and use of the Tacpoint. I encourage people with the same interest and point of view to continue exploring the Tacpoint and neutrally reporting what you find. I also encourage those with no interest in the Tacpoint to share facts that they find and make reasoned arguments against purchasing it*. This way we can get all the information out in front of us so we can make informed decisions. But please, let's try to keep the discsussions civil. Pathfinder, I am particularly interested to hear what you find at the gun show. I probably won't be able to make the show in person, so I will trust you to present an unbiased and dispassionate assessment. * I even respect opinions against the Tacpoint based on it being less than honorable to copy a design with the intent of improving sales by trading on another company's (Aimpoint in this case) reputation and good will. However, these arguments don't directly address the practical utility and physical quality of the Tacpoint. <edited to correct mangled URL> |
Buy a Hesse to put it on, that'll show em! |
zrxc77, good input! Even though I personally think it is a waste of time to do that much research on a knock off optic! But, who am I to tell you how to spend your time so once again good post! What is really killing me is that not only have they cloned the Aimpoint, but they have also cloned the KAC cantilever mount!  C4 |
LOL... Yeah, now that you mention it, if instead of doing research I had spent that time simply working my arse off, I'd probably have earned the extra $300 to buy a real Aimpoint by now...  But, I do like to share information with the aim of helping others. That's why I post on forums. Thanks for the compliment. |
Very good input ZRXC77! I like the satisfaction of researching a product that I am personally interested in purchasing and sharing that information with others. It's usually asking too much to ask others to do research for themselves but it does make decisions easier that others know how to do proper research and publish their findings in a clear manner. It's all about helping others, not for money or fame, but for the personal satisfaction of helping others. |
Nice job though |
I was actually thinking Oly when I wrote that but forgot to put anything at all... Hesse/Vulcan fits better though. As for zrxc77's post... whoa. Kinda puts everyone in their places. Make this man an honorary Mod!! The fact that he actually took the time to dig a little deeper than a picture speaks volumes... ok, well, that and the fact that he e-mails Hakko IN JAPANESE!!!  That rocked!! I really look forward to reading their reply.When I first started researching dot sights the Hakko BED-24 and BED-35 was one of the first ones I looked at, but I didn't like the open reflex style sights... they just look too easy to break IMHO. I like the idea of choosing from different reticles, although I would more than likely find one I liked the most and stick with it, thereby negating the whole purpose of spending the extra money to have those choices. So I jumped on here and did the Q&A thing... most of what I got was EOTech, Aimpoint and Trijicon Reflex and ACOGs. Pretty much the top three that everyone talks about... kind of like the Colt, Armalite, and BM of the scope/sight arguement. I had never even heard of the Tacpoint at that time. I will definitely report what I find at the gunshow as indifferently as I can. I don't expect to see both there but I have only been to a few shows and there are usually one or two surprises. I wasn't really looking for these at the last two I have been to so for all I know they had them. |
I think you've started to move into the realm of "diminishing returns" as far as helping others goes. At this point the furor around this issue plus the low price are going to ensure that the TacPoint is going to be around for a while at least... Please consider declaring victory and refraining from posting anything in any TacPoint thread more than 1 page long.. You've become a lightning rod- Let other TacPointers post for themselves. Eventually you'll be vindicated or ridiculed based on the feedback of others- not on your perseverence in responding to these threads. Also- when you report back to Hakko Headquarters to collect your enormous advertising fee, be sure to tell them that theres no market for Eo-Tech clones over here.. |
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Did someone say EOTech clones? Sweet!! Where can I get one? How much? I can't tell if this post is a compliment or a flaming...
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No! Keep your glowing ape eyes off my 551!.. They'll never be able to copy one of these.. A red dot inside a toilet paper roll is easy to rip off.. An Eo-Tech however is a thing of beauty.. 
Its neither! My post is Fair and Balanced TM |
LMAO! I formally declare VICTORY and THE END TO HOSTILITIES.....if only I had a flight suit and an Aircraft Carrier to make my victory speech from......Where's my MISSION ACCOMPLISHED BANNER? 
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The most educational, non-confrontational and informative post I've seen here on the Tacpoint and Hakko -- ever! Thank you for your time and efforts. Very good info! My favorite part (emphasis added): "I encourage people with the same interest and point of view to continue exploring the Tacpoint and neutrally reporting what you find. I also encourage those with no interest in the Tacpoint to share facts that they find and make reasoned arguments against purchasing it*. This way we can get all the information out in front of us so we can make informed decisions. But please, let's try to keep the discsussions civil." |
From the arfcom Terms & Conditions: General Guidelines 1.) Posting derogatory comments of a racial, religious, or sexual nature. This includes your username, signature line, and title. Site Staff and Moderators reserve the right to edit these items and to remove your ability to modify them in the future. I, and others I'm sure, would greatly appreciate it if you would keep your racial and ethnic slurs to yourself. Thanks. |
Or the Russian 'Kobra'... Holographic sights are a dime a dozen... |
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Pretty much halarious. I remember when Aimpoints first came out. Every old died in the wool iron sighter professed these new fangled sights were crap because they weren't battle tested. I'm not in the Tacpoint camp but I do see an ironic parallel to the calls for banning folks and locking threads with our fight to save the Second Amendment. First it starts with Saturday nite specials (Tacpoints), what next? Shit how many posts are there on the Predator RIS, Vltor Stocks, Eotecs, Aimpoints, etc? We should limit those. Does everyone who owns an Aimpoint because it is the shit drive a Porsche? You never know if the SHTF and you end up being chased by some baddies in an apocalyptic world like Road Warrier, you wouldn't want to be stuck in a Chevy or Ford. I've seen people who want to discuss Tacpoints accused of representing Hakko. Couldn't the same be said of the Aimpoint camp? Like I said, I am not in favor of buying a Tacpoint. That is my personal decision but the arguements against the tacpoint lack empirical, quantitative and qualitative data. Just because a product conforms to some mil-spec doesn't mean shit. I've been inside and outside of the Gov't/Defense Industry/Intelligence community long enough to know that. Who has more than a couple of annecdotal stories on the Aimpoint performance under combat conditions? Has there been any statistical analysis of AARs that can be shared? What is the MTBF? Point is there are people on both sides of the fence talking out their ass. What would be so hard about letting the Tacpoint folks stroke each other in their own threads and the rest of us can move on. Bomber |
What's the problem with it... is it because I singled out the Taiwanese kids, and didn't mention the Mexican, Russian, and Martha Stewart kids? Just because I tacked on a nationality doesn't automatically make it a racially derogatory comment. If there weren't actually kids being used in sweatshops to manufacturer knock-offs then the CoC might apply...
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Are you serious? You must be joking because there was nothing derogatory or racial about that. Oh wait, this is coming from the same guy that said C4iGrant was a bigot because he didn't feel like buying a product from China 
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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Tacpoint test and range report (Page 4 of 4)
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