Nope, thats still a 14.5. The Navy did buy a run of Recce carbines with 16" barrels, but most guys will never see one, let alone be issued one.

Here is a link for the extended A2 hider as well if you want to go w/ 14.5"
http://www.kurtskustomfirearms.citymax.com/catalog/item/29585/5301.htm
pjc

yeah...can't remember in what tread I found that link but figured someone would be happy!!
pjc

The lower this jerk off is going to use wont be to spec.  His upper and FSB wont be to spec.  He is REQUIRING specs that only Colt upper products offer yet he wants it super cheap... what a moron.  Forget about the damned spec because NOONE CARES... not even you will care once the rifle is finished.

ONLY Colt barrels are parked under the front sight base... like the military uses. Not LMT  and not DPMS.

Correct feed ramps are used by DPMS, LMT and Colt.  Those are your only choices.  DPMS uses teflon non-spec coated uppers.  Does LMT make carry handle uppers?  Hmmm that leaves a Colt upper which by the way is 100% to spec.  You are so ignorant you think Colt uppers are not to spec? THEY ARE 100% to spec and only the owers are not to spec.   Are you going to use the spec M16 bolt carrier?  Its leagal so why not?  Will it be magnafluxed as per spec?  Will your buffer tube be to spec?  I bet it wont so why do you have to have everything else to spec? YOUR IGNORANCE ASTOUNDS ME.

Dude noone cares about this and you nor anyone else will know the difference when the product is finsihed, not even a special forces /armorer / "been there done that" guy.  Either pony up for a to spec Colt or get something real close thats in your price range and quit whining about Colt being too expenmsive.

Quoted: 2) A $150 complete lower half most likely does not have a receiver extension with the correct dimensions. The only companies I know of that make "correct" receiver extensions are Colt, LMT, and Vltor. Colt and LMT lowers fall far from your budget, and if I recall correctly, Vltor does not sell complete lower halves.

Sorry if this is a FAQ, but what is the "correct dimension receiver extension" Vinh's talking about.  

Thanks!

G1

Treading foolishly and reluctantly into this thread, in the hope of giving clear and accurate answers to my understanding  that won't upset 9245:

Quoted: I'm thinking about eventually building an M-4, and I want it to be as correct as possible but I have a few questions first I see 4 and 6 position stocks which is correct?.... 1. I want a 14.5 inch barrel with 1:7 twist, chrome lined chamber and bore, government profile, and with the cutout for the M-203 for authenticity, I would just register it as an SBR, however Michigan won't allow it so I'll have to perminently attach a muzzle attachment, I want the correct A2 style flash suppressor but I'm not sure if that will be long enough will it, if not whats the most correct looking one available, I've looked at the vortex, and phantom models so offen mentioned but there not even close to correct, so what is I found this http://www.kurtskustomfirearms.citymax.com/catalog/item/29585/5301.htm so hows that, or is there something better If an A2 won't work, and I need something longer I want as short a flash suppressor as possible to make it legal.... 2. I hered something about a differant front sight block for the M-4 is this true, if so whats the differance, and where can I get the M-4 type?.... 3. I also heared about differant length buffer tubes, again whats the difference, and where can I fing the correct one?.... 4. I also heard about differant M-4 feedramp cuts, is this true, and whats the difference, and how do I get the right ones?.... snip Your goals............ $1500 for an AR-15 is insane, and don't take offense but unless it's made of gold if you pay that much your on crack.... Look I'm not trying to start a war here all I want is the most correct version that I can legaly get, and from what you say the early type it's a preferance thing....  I will not, I repeat NOT use a 16" barrel, a 1:9 twist, an HBAR, non chrome lined, the flat top, non standard pins, a Phantom, or a Vortex flash suppressor, or insanely high prices, I requir a 14.5" barrel with the correct government profile with M-203 groove, chrome lined, chamber, and bore, with a 1:7 twist, the early style A2 carry handle, and the flash suppressor must eighther be an A2 thats been jery rigged to the legal length, or an elongated A2 like I mentioned in my first post.... Now from what I gathered the features that differ on the M-4 are the handgaurds, forward sight base hight, side mounted forward sling swivil, the feed ramp, and I also heared something about the shape of the carry handle, now is that it?....  Now as I said I'm building the earlier version with the fixed carry handle, so which of those features if any are correct on this version M-4.... Now again my budget is $800 and I think thats high, now I don't care if I have to build it myself and I can do it well within budget, I can get the complete lower with the teloscopic stock for about $150, I'm willing to spend up to $200 for the barrel, I can get the upper for $140, the bolt for about $110, and the charging handle for $15, for a grand total of $615, which gives me $185 to spare should one of the parts cost more than I anticipate specificly the barrel, so don't say it can't be done because it can, I've already tracked down the suppliers, and done the math, now all I have to get the information exactly what is correct?....

By the numbers I put into your first post:

1. probably the best source for this is Bushmaster?  I am told they sell 1:7" twist M4 barrels; you'll have to call though and ask, not everything a company has is on its website.

Besides that, you can get a Colt barrel here (go to "Colt Rifle Parts" and click on part # SP64958), a DPMS barrel here and a LMT barrel here (go to AR-15 uppers -> LMT -> LMT M4 profile 16" and 14.5" 1/7 twist, chrome lined barrels, note they're out of stock) among other places.  

I would order the long A2 flashhider from Kurts.  He can send it to you if you want to assemble it.

2. only Colt makes the correct front sight block according to what I've heard (and this seems to be born out in this thread).  Comes free with the Colt Barrel above.  Other than that, check/beg on Equipment exchange

3. see previous posts re: buffer tubes.  If you really want "the real thing", the military gets their tubes from colt, so go get a Colt one.  Part # SA07012 above, also can be found by trawling the EE.   BTW, note that a "telescoping stock" is not necessarily "mil-spec" or even quality just because it looks similar in a picture.   There is really a HUGE quality difference between the cheapies and the Colt one.  

4. Kurts Kustom will do them I'm told.  Other than that, you'll have to get Colt or LMT.  

Now, addressing your goals from a project management standpoint.... the market economy works well, but a person can't always get what exactly he wants at the price he wants, especially if it's a bit esoteric.  I defy you to find me an M4 upper for $300, and if you find it it's made of junk parts.  I've seen $300 uppers at gunshows, they frankly even look like ersatz junk in comparison to something put out by Colt, LMT, CMMG, Bushmaster, Armalite or DPMS (to say nothing about function).  

The truth of the M4 market today is that Colt has exclusive rights to the real thing, LMT and CMMG (somehow) make a decent copies.   Colt provides thousands to the military, LMT  provides many to SOCOM.  The civilian market is a second fiddle to both of them due to military demands.    CMMG is a small shop providing uppers for the civilian/LE market.

And yes, your friend may have been able to get an M4 for $500 whatever, but a Law Enforcement Agency cannot get one at that price (perhaps if it orders dozens, yes).   The cheapest quote I've seen for a complete Colt 6920 is somewhere around $900 back when I was thinking of purchasing one [check EE, even though I've heard the prices have skyrocketed].   This price is not a huge gouge price; my belief is that it's fairly close to what your local PD would pay if they wanted to buy one individually from an FFL.  

In short, I hate to rain on your parade, but what you're asking is not possible given the current market situation.  As I see it, your options are the following:

1. buy a Colt LE 6920 on the EE board.  I think this is the best way to get what you want with fewest compromises.  

2. buy your lower, buy a lower kit, get a good (colt preferably) telestock, and your choice of an LMT (gandrtactical.com, mstn.biz, or bravocompanyusa.com, among others - all of whom are in the "industry" forums section) or a CMMG  (cmmginc.com) upper.  It will have the feed ramps, the 1:7 twist barrel, but not the front sight base, but in my view it'll be good enough.   Be sure to either send them your long A2 or ask them to put on a Phantom.   That's $150 for the lower you quoted above, another $500 for the CMMG upper  (ask them for a detachable carry handle while you're at it), plus an unknown amout for the "right" buttstock and flash hider.   This is what I'd do if I were you, but you make a few compromises.      

3. call Kurt and tell him exacly what you want.  Buy the lower receiver and send it to him.   Hopefully the price is in your range.  You can get your fixed carry handle early model M4 also if you really want (BTW Tweak and the guys supporting him on this is right.  Those websites aren't accurate).  

4. buy a Bushmaster M4-type rifle.   Be sure to call and ask for a 1:7 twist barrel and a fixed sight upper.   It will look from the outside just like the "real thing", can be fixed without too much trouble if it has problems, and will definitely be more than reliable enough for range plinking.  


If you insist on building your own, you will not be able to find all the "mil-spec" parts for less than $800.   The authentic components aren't sitting around happily waiting for people to gobble them up.  In fact, I doubt you could even assemble an M4 clone made out of quality  (Bushmaster, Armalite, or even DPMS) parts for less than $800.   The feedramp cuts themselves can't be done in your basement with a dremel - a pro needs to do them.   Plus, you'll be left to troubleshoot your build if it doesn't work.  I don't recommend this.

But, I'm not an expert on the subject even if I pretend to be.  More than willing to concede that I may be wrong on any of the above points.  

This is fucking hilarious!

I did a Colt 6920 upper with a PWA (pre-ban, if that matters anymore) lower and an LMT SOPMOD Stock kit with H Buffer.  I think this is about as close as a civy can get?

Anyone agree?

Quoted: I did a Colt 6920 upper with a PWA (pre-ban, if that matters anymore) lower and an LMT SOPMOD Stock kit with H Buffer.  I think this is about as close as a civy can get? Anyone agree?

Except for barrel length, carrier and stock, yes.

As far as feed ramps even though I think they are useless one things for sure you need the proper M4 barrel extension and upper receiver even a pro with a dremel or machine tool isnt going to get it correct with just machining the upper the feed ramps have their own shape not the same as a regular extension.I know LMT,COLT and I think CMMG has proper uppers.If you get a real colt M4 barrel with the proper extension it will be off in a non M4 upper.There will be too much of a ledge for things to snag on when feeding this is where some one who knows how to do it right or having the right upper receiver will really count.

Why did I think the military M4's had a crane stock?

That was the best information in this thread yet, and I may actually be able to use some of the parts you listed, though Colt is still to overpriced....

I think it's my refuseing to pay out the ass for overpriced Colt products thats pissing people off the Colt loyalists that feel that if you use cheaper non-Colt parts you are to use a certain posters own words "ignorant", well let me tell that person that if you pay that price your the ignorant one and yes I do care about the specs, I unlike you am a collector I must have correct parts, and I'm on a budget I must get them cheap so I shop around, I'm not when of the people that just want an M-4 to be "tacti-cool" where anything will work as long as it kinda-sorta, maybe looks like it could possibly, perhaps be an M-4, I must have thing to spec, I'm not particularly concirned with whethor or not it's parkerized under the front sight base because thats not visible, but the visible, and the functional parts that I use must be correct, that is another reason I am going for the early M-4 as that model should have the fewest sudtle changes from the A2 and thus be easier and cheaper to build ofcourse I could be mistaken that is the point of this thread to find out exactly what parts I need for this model, so if you can stop the insults long enough let me ask again....  I am building the early model M-4 the 720 what parts are differant from the A2 other than the barrel, and stock, and where can I get them?....

Quoted: I think it's my refuseing to pay out the ass for overpriced Colt products ... I unlike you am a collector I must have correct parts,

And this is why you appear so ignorant to the rest of us.  Colt -OWNS- the copyright to the name "M4".  If it doesn't have a cute little pic of a pony on the side of the lower receiver then it isn't an M4.  Period.  If you "must have correct parts" then you must have a pony on the lower.  If you "must have correct parts" then you must have the stamps on the upper that mark it as an M4 upper with the feed ramps.  If you "must have correct parts" then it must have lettering on the barrel that begins with 'C MP'.  And if you had any skill as a 'collector' you'd realize that it is having all the correct markings that make it a collectible item.

If all you care about is the looks and not the function then you can save yourself some money and paperwork by simply buying a non-firing replica or a high end airsoft M4.  It can even have the -exact- markings including saying "safe-semi-burst" by the selector and you can get the correct 14.5" barrel with a regular A2 hider.

No to be correct I would need a non perminantly attached flash suppressor, and have a working selector with the correct markings, and the Colt government M-4 markings but since I cant have those I might as well compromise on the other markings as well since eightherway it wouldn't have the right markings, and even if I used a Colt lower reciever it would still be incorrect because of the incorrect pin sizes thats in addition to the civilian markings....  So there is no reason to spend extra for Colt just because it's Colt it makes no sense....

Buy a Colt upper and put it on a PWA lower.

Well, since this pretty much an "appearance thing" I would recommend the Kurts Kustom flash Hider to make your 14.5 barrel over 16 inches long.  As for the Army, the only guys I ever knew of with the A2 upper style M-4's were special ops.  When we fielded M-4's in 96-97 they were all the removable carry handle type upers.  As for 16 inch barrels I think the air forces GAU-5 has a 16 inch barrel, not positive though.

I find it hard to believe the starter of this thread is capable of detailed accuracy: he didn't spell M4 right in the thread's title.

Quoted: Well, since this pretty much an "appearance thing" I would recommend the Kurts Kustom flash Hider to make your 14.5 barrel over 16 inches long.  As for the Army, the only guys I ever knew of with the A2 upper style M-4's were special ops.  When we fielded M-4's in 96-97 they were all the removable carry handle type upers.  As for 16 inch barrels I think the air forces GAU-5 has a 16 inch barrel, not positive though.

GAU-5 is an old A1 receiver with a new M4 1/7 14.5 barrel.

Quoted: I unlike you am a collector I must have correct parts, and I'm on a budget I must get them cheap so I shop around...

Unfortunately, this isn't like AR15, M14 or Garand parts.   80% of the "correct parts" are outside of the CONUS, 75% in Iraq and Afghanistan, and probably about 90% in the hands of the US govt. (made up numbers, but close enough for this argument's sake).   In the civilian world, the "correct parts" are scare (Colt doesn't provide a huge number of parts for replacement's sake) and there's an equally high demand for them.  Thus, they either disappear quickly or if they stay in stock they do so because the prices are very high.  

This will only change once 1. Mr. Zarqwai, Mr. bin Laden, Mr. al Sadr and their pals have gone to meet their "70 virgins", as it were, 2. the Army decides to adopt the M8  3. the army decides to sell the M4s as scrap and allows them to be sold as parts kits.   All this could happen in the next 5 years, but it's not the situation now.   My belief is in fact that the parts are more valuable than the rifle - i.e. if I'm an FFL I can buy whole LE6920s, break them into parts, and part them for substantially more than what they bought them for.    

I say again, real M4 parts are scarce and you won't be able to buy them for cheap.

I think it's my refuseing to pay out the ass for overpriced Colt products thats pissing people off the Colt loyalists that feel that if you use cheaper non-Colt parts you are to use a certain posters own words "ignorant", well let me tell that person that if you pay that price your the ignorant one and yes I do care about the specs, I unlike you am a collector I must have correct parts, and I'm on a budget I must get them cheap so I shop around, I'm not when of the people that just want an M-4 to be "tacti-cool" where anything will work as long as it kinda-sorta, maybe looks like it could possibly, perhaps be an M-4, I must have thing to spec, I'm not particularly concirned with whethor or not it's parkerized under the front sight base because thats not visible, but the visible, and the functional parts that I use must be correct, that is another reason I am going for the early M-4 as that model should have the fewest sudtle changes from the A2 and thus be easier and cheaper to build ofcourse I could be mistaken that is the point of this thread to find out exactly what parts I need for this model, so if you can stop the insults long enough let me ask again.... I am building the early model M-4 the 720 what parts are differant from the A2 other than the barrel, and stock, and where can I get them?....

That is without a doubt the longest sentance ever written.  I'm not a grammar nazi, but.......