Except it ain't in stock because everyone in the industry is buying it up before Joe Public, and noone is trying to push it, lol!

You see it all the time at the track... Exotic metals, refined angles & close tolerances. Everybody looking for an edge. As long as your that 1% that can utilize the "exoticness", go for it... Otherwise, its just overkill, IMO.

No, 0.5 MOA would equal roughly 1.5” at 300 yards.

Agreed. Hodge is about pride of ownership for most. The one thing that I do notice on the daily though is that it runs much cleaner and smoother than my DDM4 and other m4 types Ive shot. Especially suppressed. Thats a function of proper gas porting, though, but the port sizes were selected via high speed videography, full auto, and tens of thousands of rounds.

Sounds like he builds an outstanding, no corners cut rifle.  I share his attitude for the most part, and that is why I don't own a single factory built AR.  I select the best components I can afford that fit my needs and assemble them with care.  he obviously takes it to the next level with custom spec parts, etc.  I'd like to handle an HD rifle someday, but it doesn't look likely with his production numbers.  Frankly, I hadn't even heard of his company until a few months ago.

P&S Modcast with Jim Hodge (apologies if it was already posted).

Unfortunately, they'll probably never be available here in Snow Mexico.

So I'm going to "build" one.

Angry poor "Hodge" 'build'

Despite what many people think, USASOC is, in the end, still an Army organization that has to follow the same bureaucratic procurement process, just more expedited. If no one is offering a rifle (or upper) with specs that surpass the Geissele URG-I, or someone like Hodge doesn’t have the production capacity to build the quantity of uppers they need, the process isn’t going to be able to select a solution that doesn’t exist or isn’t practical to produce.

I’m really reluctant to comment on all of this, because I have no firsthand knowledge about Hodge’s business or products, but my understanding from what I’ve read about him, written by people who have proved to be reliable sources over the years, is that he’s been in that business for a couple decades, as someone mentioned earlier. There are a lot of small units and organizations out there that most of us never hear anything about. USASOC is pretty mainstream and a large organization by comparison. I’ve been in the military for a few years now, and I’ve had the chance to work with some interesting people and organizations, despite being a straight conventional guy myself. I still hear references to organizations I’ve never heard of and don’t have any idea what people are talking about. My impression is that Jim Hodge built his reputation as sort of a custom armorer / builder for small teams and organizations, and his weapons have been going down range for years. It was only recently that some people convinced him to branch out into (limited) commercial sales, something he had been interested in doing. My understanding is that the reason that only a small number of his rifles are released to the “public” each year is that the majority of his capacity is still going to small, special orders from government and military organizations. I have no idea if any of that is accurate, but that’s what I’ve gathered from reading about him and his products since the first announcement about his Hodge Defense Line.

Maybe, I did run into an ODA guy last year that was running a BCM 11.5 so yeah, I would be inclined to agree that there may be a few out there, but with this being said, i would be more inclined to believed its just the latest rendition of "texas"spec complete with a edgy marketing campaign and cool slogan

vortex razors are awesome optics, not really officially adopted but are really not hard to to come by down range.  HD rifles/uppers or what ever are supposed to be the pinnacle platform but are rarer than a hens teeth.

The marketing campaign is probably the last piece of the puzzle. Kindof an afterthought. Jim isn't really a marketing guy, but he has an awesome one who is in tune with Jim's mindset and quirks, and that's what you see as a "marketing campaign". People like it, so he does it. Selling guns is probably the last thing it's aimed at doing, really. His real "marketing campaign" are repeat customers, LE/MIL, and word of mouth/hands-on with a friend's rifle type situations. Truthfully though, I think it's about a guy just building the best mousetrap he can, and those who agree with him. And it's a pretty darn impressive mouse-trap, if I say so myself.

Spoken to a few people whose opinions I trust that are knowledgeable about the man and the product he is putting out.

For the money we're speaking about, I'm still exclusively a KAC buyer, but apparently he's putting some serious thought into his rifles and knows what he is doing.

So on the subject of Wedge Lock handguards, I've seen that Zev and Triarc both sell them under their own names. Are those licensed versions from Hodge or what? Is there any difference apart from specific length?

https://www.arbuildjunkie.com/hodge-defense-interview-jim-hodge/
Hodge helped design.  Hodge has Mega/Zev run them.  Back when Mega was around they were 7075 and a bit different profile (more cut out, lighter weight) but used the same material, extrusions, and titanium barrel nut as hodge.  Since mega was bought out zev switched to 6061 and runs them for zev, triarc, sons of liberty gun works, and fn.  I believe all of the new ones have steel nuts and not titanium but could be wrong with that.

Do you think we can expect the same quality and rigidity from the non-Hodge marked ones?

I have no hands on with any of the non-Hodge, but I do have a 10.75" Hodge rail and am very pleased with it. I normally wouldn't ask about the others, but availability on the Hodge stuff being what it is, I wouldn't mind having options if they're of comparable quality.

They should be fine, especially if in 7075. The 6061's are still obviously good, as it's an excellent lock-up/barrel nut system, and geometry, but obviously equal geometry in 6061 vs 7075 will favor the 7075 on a technical comparison, but I doubt you ever could tell, in actual use.

To keep the thread jack going -

I handled a Triarc wedge lock rail last week. It was very solid feeling, but it is very skinny. The guy at the shop said some gas blocks - including the Geissele - don't work well under the rail. What gas blocks work best with these (Hodge/Triarc/SOLGW wedge lock) rails?

SLR GB7 micro

Hmm, interesting. Rainier lists the Zev as being 7075, though Zev's site doesn't say. Triarc lists theirs as 6061. Can't find anything for SOLGW, and FN doesn't appear to sell theirs outside of full rifle builds.

The big stamp on the SOLGW one is also terribly ugly.

From an email reply direct from Zev:
"Thank you for your interest, we use 6061 aluminum, please feel free to call us direct with any further questions"

SOLGW said they'll have 7075 options eventually.  Agree that their branding is ugly and they should switch to their Sons of Liberty Battle Flag logo like on their bolt carriers...

There's an IG post from Weaponoutfitters that says the holdup right now (for hodge 7075 wedgelock) are the titanium barrel nuts.

7075 vs. 6061 is a little funny too.  6061 machines/extrudes easier so it's the primary choice for rails for most manufacturers.  and it's cheaper as a raw material. 7075, while "stronger" is said to be more brittle, which isn't necessarily a good thing if taking impacts. You also have to ask yourself if you're building a rail, and you make it ultimate strong to take on any impact, bend, etc. where does that force go?  is it absorbed elsewhere like at the threaded potion of the upper receiver, the known weak point on high round count ar's.  VLTOR, BCM, and I'm sure others have designed upper receivers that put more meat up there to help.  Perhaps 6061 is a better option in the same regard as how gas tubes melt to preserve the barrel the handguard would absorb the impact more than 7075 to preserve the upper?  who knows.  I think we get caught up on what's the "best" and there is no such thing.

Another ironic thing I keep saying is Mega handguards have been out there for a couple years and no one was clamoring for them until they got bought by zev and no longer mega branded.  7075, same attachment method as hodge (titanium barrel nut, wedge lock), lighter weight even (~13 oz for 12" mega vs ~15 oz for 13.5" hodge).  They're not in the same length and that's a hangup for a lot of folks that don't want a gap, but dollars to doughnuts it's probably the unobtanium factor that drives hodge demand vs. mega.

I dont think this is a Red Jacket Katana scenario here. A small manufacturer has to pay a 2400 dolar ITAR alone even if they just put out one rifle. Add in the costs of original spec parts (Better or not) and the costs are much higher than a company like PSA or and popular brand.

I dont think this is a Red Jacket Katana scenario here. A small manufacturer has to pay a 2400 dolar ITAR alone even if they just put out one rifle. Add in the costs of original spec parts (Better or not) and the costs are much higher than a company like PSA or and popular brand.

He's sold some stuff to the National Park Service.... absolutely 0 evidence of anything else other than lack of contracts.

He's sold rifles to all sorts of organizations, albeit in very small numbers.

So who makes uppers that have the anti-rotation pin hole that can be used with the wedgelock rails?  I know the hodges will never be in stock.

Zev, Triarc, someone else?

ETA:  looks like Zev does but I can't stand that logo on the side

Noveske and SOLGW.

Is that the gen3 noveske only?  Not a fan of the giant branding on the side.

That's good news about SOLGW. I couldn't find any pictures of one where you can see the hole.

Thanks!

It’s a nice feature but you don’t have to use the pin.

Also, ADCO will drill the receiver hole for it.

V7 rails and uppers have the same feature.

- Deleted by moderator -

This is a technical forum. Please refrain from name calling and insults.

Gen 1 uppers have it. They only have a subdued iron cross on the top that's usually covered by a folding BUIS anyway.

looks like there's a hodge build with a mix master bunch of parts on a very popular gun auction site.

https://www.ar15.com/forums/Equipment-Exchange/Hodge-Defense-AU-Mod1/21-1876783/

Mod 1 lasted 16 hours listed at $2250. No idea what it actually sold for.

Interesting...

I’d like to get one of these to test, but I’m not willing to buy one currently.

Edit: those 100yd groups don’t really translate to the 300yd groups.

No way would I spend 2500 on secret sauce barreled rifle, some of the claims made above,
About accuracy are a stretch, “rather a flat out lie” even with a top shelf
Barrel, I mean top shelf, cut rifling, hand lapped, like a kreiger nothing secret with a barrel like that.
Chf barrels are not what marketing proclaims them to be, get a bore scope and look yourself.
Chf barrels are great for building a barrel quickly. And consistently...
It is not the most accurate. Nor will it ever be...
I could build a rifle with a better trigger and a better barrel, with a mill-spec lpk, and it will indeed outshoot any chf barreled rifle. And still cost less.
But a fool and his money....

Not sure where you picked up the claims about chf barrels being best for accuracy.  But Steyr uses chf barrels in the bolt action rifles, and FN used a chf and chrome lined barrel in their FN SPR A3G.  So they're definitely capable of great accuracy, but like everything else the quality of manufacturing matters more than the rifling process.

Who is making absurd claims? I have found his guns to average around 1.25-1.5moa for a 10 shot group using MK262. They offer accuracy on the better end of the CHF barrel spectrum, but even Jim Hodge will tell you that they are not absolute lasers, nor is that their purpose. The barrels he uses are meant to last to hell and back. And still shoot <1.5moa with MK262. If you want a more accurate Hodge, spec a PROOF barrel, and hold on to your wallet. As to you building a rifle with a barrel that is better at this...no. You can't. You literally CANNOT, unless you have access to stellite lined 5.56 barrels, or HK416 barrels (roughly equal). The steel formulation and some of the processes used on the Hodge barrels by FN are licensed to Hodge for use on his guns, and guns made by FN to that pattern. Like I said though, if your goal is purely more accuracy, that's not a super hard thing to achieve. Slap a Proof, Llija, etc. barrel on there and be happy.

Trigger. Jim offers these with basic triggers because people have differing tastes. Pull out what's in there and put in what you like. His trigger groups are reliable and durable as any, and that's as far as it goes. He was using ALG QMS's, but may just be using Mil-Spec now, I am not sure. It's irrelevant.

The rest of the LPK. The safety (ambi or C1), FA, Norgon (if so spec'ed), and bolt catch are 4140 barstock. It gets different, but not really "better", and if you price those separately (you can't buy his FA, those are licensed to him, and I didn't even ask by who), you will find they are not cheap.

The barrel/upper fit...I guess you can mix/match around and find that combo elsewhere, but please consider the precision that Hodge demands---and gets---to be able to consistently have upper/barrel fitments like this without lapping or resorting to using loctite to achieve. Those carry over to other dimensions, as well.

So why is so much about it "Secret Sauce"?

Two reasons...

...Because people on the internet will never be happy until you take them through a video tour of your entire process, and even then they will ask for the "cut scenes". They really have no right to that. They have zero rights to any of a company's intellectual property. They will also, as stated, not ever be happy with anything you give them. I can see you now already forming "but..." "well what then..." "I'd like to know..." responses to even this post. My answer? "Nothing then. If you want one, I suggest you buy it. It's not duplicated anywhere. If you don't, that's cool, too. Neither me, nor anyone at Hodge is seeking validation on a forum."

...Because it's a small and vicious industry, and contracts matter. Do you recall a certain someone being sued over simply MENTIONING Hodge while working for someone else? Wouldn't some people LOVE to get ahold of internal Hodge data on certain products...

None of this may have cleared things up for you, and I'm sorry if that's the case, but you'd get a similar response asking Ford how their plasma deposit process on cylinder walls is performed, at what temperature and with what alloys, etc.. For similar reasons.

Dear Hodge users STOP trying to convince these trolls how good Hodge stuff is. I really dont need any more competition for when stuff goes on the public market place.

Yes yes Hodge is overpriced crap. Do NOT buy!

Are you rating barrels being ‘better’ in the single criteria of longevity? Because I can absolutely find a better barrel in regards to functionality and purpose....

I am saying if you want a 1-1.5moa all-day-long barrel that will last longer than any other barrel on this platform, and is properly ported for suppressed and unsuppressed use without adjustable gas systems required,  the Hodge barrel is "the best". If you want a 7500 round barrel life and to shoot gnats at 200m, then I would steer you in another direction.

There's a reason why "if you get it, you get it" is a slogan. Because arguing with trolls and idiots on the internet is waste of time. No amount of facts will make them "get it". Get it?

True story.

Na, it’s because it’s not reasonably justified by hodge.... so the slogan is a way to dance around the jacked up price of an Ar that’s just a common ar....

lol

So I'm over here being poor, and pricing some Hodge secret sauce.

Barrel - $425
Stripped upper - $160 (wtf)
Wedgelock rail - $289

Total - $874.00

Meanwhile, on the same site, an AU-MOD 2 upper is "on sale" for $1650. This upper does not include a BCG, CH or muzzle device. The only thing it includes that is not listed in the parts above are a FA and dust cover. So, either those are some expensive fucking FAs and dust covers, or the labor to assemble an upper comes out to around $1k/hour.

There are exactly ZERO chf barrels being used in benchrest or even position shooting.  CHF lets you make durable, consistent barrels cheaply and quickly.  The only thing they have in common with a cut rifled barrel or even a good button barrel is that they are all round tubes with spirals inside.  Steyr and FN do not make accurate barrels, they make acceptable barrels.  FWIW I believe Steyr uses LW button barrels on the only accurate product they make, air guns.

Sure is hard to find one of these common AR's in stock. Got any leads on said common AR?

I don't have a dog in this fight but I will say their specs are very "common". Help me understand the difference.

What testing or evidence do you have to support that claim? I have a Criterion barrel that I would be hard-pressed to believe this Hodge barrel is better than.

-The MOD2's are made out of various alloys that are not commonly used.
-All of the Hodge receivers feature fitted barrels, by virtue of tight dimension control.
-The barrels last longer than any other barrel you can stuff in an AR upper that I am aware of, due to both their metallurgy, and how they are made.
-The gas ports are properly sized for use with or without a suppressor.
-The ergonomics are nice, love how they handle, but then, other AR's handle well, too, and that's a matter of preference.
-All of the small parts (safety, FA, bolt catch, etc.) are barstock instead of castings.

Lots and lots of testing went into the components that make up the MOD 2 guns.

Hodge rifles have been tested at Picatinny as part of the Army SEP program, and subjected to the same 24k M855A1 durability protocol as the M4A1 and M27. It crushed them both.

Yes, all over. Go to your LGS and you’ll see them....