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U want to know this also..... however that info was not submitted by everyone [:// I would also like to know the number of grooves in all brls... After a few hours on the phone with Art at silverstate I found that's (along with a mid-length gas system) was makes a brl shoot. Mike BTW POLYkid i sent you an IM |
I would strongly recommend that we post the chamber specs i.e, whether SAAMI or "improved SAAMI", and the number of lands / grooves of each barrel. The reasons for this are as follows: 1) the number of lands and the land vs. groove depth may be as important as the twist rate in determining inertia/friction/drag and thus pressure in different barrels. 2) Many shooters are also wondering which rifles can shoot high pressure rounds but the guns may not all do it the same way. For example WOA barrels are putting out some pretty impressive velocities with SAAMI chambers but by using 1 in 11" twist. OTOH, LWRC apparently has decided to go with the improved chamber, but the polygonal 1 in 10" twist, and Barrett has always used a "generous" chamber, but standard (6- groove) 1 in 10" rifling. So, you cannot just assume that an upper is made with one, the other or both unless, of course, you buy the Ko-Tonics. It comes with improved chamber and 1 in 11" twist and 4-groove rifling  . (For those of you still skeptical about the 1 in 11" twist, just look at the 650 yard group consistency across the full spectrum of uppers with it.)It is just this kind of evaluation that will help us answer the questions about these two very important design characteristics, so I think these exacting specifics should be included....I'm just sayin'  ETA; edited for late night crappy spelling and typing  (a yawn)
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| Just thought I would throw in for new-arguy... So long as the LWRC rail is installed and torqued down and the front screws not loose, removal and reinstall of the top rail has no effect on your rail mounted front sight zero. I was worried about that too but it is a non issue. |
I've wondered about that too. Glad to hear its not an issue. |
Oh, and Art at Silverstate likes the the 1 in 11 twist (in a 14 to 16 inch brl or longer) a lot more then the 1 in 10 because you can run "hotter" loads throw it... he even said he sometime loads ammo pistol powder to get the velocity out of the short barreled stuff (2600 FTS out of an 8 inch brl!) Mike |
If you support one of the contributing companies (any of them), it is all worth it. The companies who contributed took a huge leap of faith in sending their uppers out to, and trusting someone who is largely unknown to them. I respct each of them a great deal for doing so. |
Holy Shite! |
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Neil- you made a comment about the LWRC rifle being "wild" in full-auto. I also saw mention that you used a full-auto Bushmaster lower. What you didn't specify (and might not know) is what kind of buffer he had in that lower? If he had a heavy buffer, a 9mm buffer, or some other kind of recoil-reducing buffer, it will actually have an adverse reaction in a LWRC rifle, because the self-regulating system will "over-gas" itself to overcome the inertia. Anyway- if you know, or could find out, that MIGHT explain that phenomena. Does your personal LWRC behave so badly? Excellent write-up, and good job for taking on such a HUGE undertaking. Hats off to Mr. Noveske. I was shocked to read his post. Thank you, sir, for the kindness you show to our fighting men. I hope the SSgt Devil Dog appreciates his rifle, and is successful in all he does. |
I did state which buffer was used and put a link to the product. It was the AAC cyclic rate ruducing buffer. I have not shot my own LWRC on auto, so I couldnt tell you how that might work out. |
You are absolutely correct about the shooter being a key component; you can give a marginal shooter the best weapon system and it will yield only marginal results in the end. Again kudos to Neil and company. |
I know that Neil can shoot.... that said after about the seventh upper I know the look on his face was not as "happy" as the first one of the day... I guess what I am trying to say is shooter fatigue plays into this test as I know it must play into other large test... Mike |
PolyTechKID, Nice work. If I got this right, makes it easy to see that there were three (3) uppers that averaged under a minute-of-angle out to 300. GTS / Denny - .907 Noveske - .894 PRI - .9975 Depending on the accuracy of measurement, Denny and Noveske look to be a 1st-Place tie out to 300, nose-to-nose. Kudos to the whole bunch. I still got one question, NAG, what kind of box did you send my brass back in ? You know I'm kidding.  Merry Christmas to all, Mark LaRue www.laruetactical.com |
Shucks NAG, you've spent enough time on this, don't worry about it, just send the components, I'll take care of the rest. ETA - Have PolyTechKID make me up a chart of component possibilities to pick from. 
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I swear LaRue, you fuckin' kill me
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HMMMM....what's in it for me? It is a slow day at work
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The satisfaction of a job well done.  
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Denny, I apologize for not paying closer attention to the numbers a bit sooner. I know, I know, and I do appreciate and admire your classy, quiet style. ML |
Well I have the chart done, but if I host it on imageshack like the other ones it has to be too small to read. So if somebody with some better web-fu than me wants to post it up I'll send you the excel file. Polytech PS. I was hoping I could get a armadillo out of the deal
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Send it with an addy to ... mark(@)laruetactical.com We'll sling it up on our server. ML |
| I just got an email from Stag saying that they are actually lowering the price of their 6.8 uppers by $50, and 6.8 rifles by $100 because of increased production. They were also sorry for being late in sending the upper. I'll reflect my initiall post to reflect the new price. They said although the new price is fr 2008, it is effective immediately through them. Good news! |
Real good news!!!! Glad I pestered them into the test!!!! ( 3 phone calls) Mike |
Now you're credit grabbin'. 
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"PolyTechKID's 6.8 Bullet Chart" Once again, nicely done.
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Ya know, if Stag deleted that ugly M4 barrel cut, they could $ave more time i.e. money on machining and further their 6.8 discount even more...Hope they're reading this... |
That's what is says on the 6.8 faq, but its also 1.35" long so I don't think you could load it to mag length with any velocity (I have yet to start reloading so any of you reloaders out there correct me if I'm wrong) You could probably single load them and get good results. Polytech |
I will say this about "re-loading" the 6.8SPC...The accuracy specs listed here if re-loaded will show a DRAMATIC improvement to say the least. I found out of all the commercial calibers I have shot, the 6.8 hand loads have shown the largest improvement vs. any commercial ammo out there. (I realize nowhere near the quantity vs the .223, but still some dramatic differences). My MSTN 6.8SPC with an 18" Douglas barrel that was built 2 years ago STILL shoots a 1/2" or better with 28.8gr of H322, Rem brass and the 110gr V-max bullet. This bullet also performs magically at night! Vic |
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Hats off to new-arguy and the other guys who spent time getting this test project going also hats off to all who sent uppers to be tested. To be quite honest everyone came out a winner in my opinion, excellent performance across the board given the conditions and ammo. Mr. Noveske, you sir are a class act!!!! |
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New AR Guy.. thanks for the review. Your notes on the full auto operation has brought up a question that I hope someone can clarify. For a 6.8 or other AR type semi auto to operate smoothly I am assuming several componenants must work in concert. My question is... are the smoother rifles able to cycle faster due to them being smoother in nature? Or are they smoother because they cycle faster? My assumtion would be that the smoother uppers might have "tuned" - read smaller - gas holes which restricts gas into the system allowing for smoother operation. Which would follow the smoother is faster scenario. But I am not sure this is the case? |
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Sadly Im in the same boat as you. Im not really asure what makes the guns shoot the way they do. I can only shoot them and tell you what I think. I had 1_AR_Newbie shoot a couple of them that I happened to think were either exceptionaly smooth or hard to see if it was just me. He seemed to feel the same way I did after shooting. I do think that the quicker cycling guns were smoother and easier to control. What Hawkeye said about it seems to make sense. Many (not all) of the guns that shot quick were carbine length gas systems. That may have something to do with it. The MSTN upper was not a carbine gas system, yet it was by far the easiest to shoot. I can only guess that beyond the MSTN QC brake, which is very effective, it might have to do with the overall balance of the gun? It was one of the few that used a rifle length rail. Barrel weight and contour? Probably a combination of several small things all of which added to the way it shot. I dont know though, Im really just guessing. 
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GOOD 2 know!!! I have heard people say there LWRC guns shoot great in full auto and they all where complete LWRC guns ... now that I think about it.. Mike |
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Just to let everyone know. There is another 6.8 SPC upper that deserves to be mentioned here because they are a outstanding deal. You get the improved chamber, plus extended feedramps. A upper sells for around 500 dollars shipped. Its the RRA LAR-6.8 All the above is confirmed HERE |
not really.... At the time we ask them they where still R and D ing there 6.8 upper and knew it needed some refining... By the time we got done with the test... they had fielded the .458 upper and the 6.8 upper! Mike |
NO they don't deserve mention. They did not participate. They had better things to do so fukkem 
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