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Yes, Neil, good work. I know how time consuming this can be. I will go for more than a beers. Just as an FYI: As to a MSTN built upper with
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No offense taken with anyone for anything.  I had offers to help shooting, but I felt that if I didnt shoot them all myself, it would open even MORE variables. It's hard to shoot 11 uppers in any one sitting, even if you are only shooting two five round groups. Because I knew I would be shooting for extended sessions, and I knew the uppers I shot towards the end of the session probably wouldnt fair as well as those I shot towards the middle (Im the type of shooter who usually warms up a little before I start doing my best), I tried to stagger the order in which the uppers were shot at different ranges. There really just is no way to have done this in a truely fair and equal way without being able to shoot many more groups over many more days. Financial and schedueling restrictions aside, my somewhat limited free time just would not have allowed this to happen. I'll continue to try and emphasize that the accuracy results provided here should in no way be considered a representation of the uppers potential. Given more time to shoot a single upper (as opposed to shooting one then moving on to the next), wider selection of test ammo, and better conditions, I believe all of them have greater potential than I was able to achieve. Particularly at the 100 and 300 yard lines. Consider the groups an example of what a regular guy with pretty limited free time can do, on any given day, with 11 uppers and one type of ammo. Not much more, not much less. |
I think that is a great idea, but it would be better if Neil kept it. |
No, I wont keep any of them. But I will gladly help find the upper a home. Very generous of you John. Thanks for the service you do. |
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Neil, Great Review! You need to do more test like what you did on the 6.8MM. I believe, from what I read, every company was represented equally and no manufacturer/dealer should complain about the results. The only way it could be any fairer, is if you used the EXACT same barrels length and if the weapons were fired from a test fixture (AKA rifle Ransom Rest). Great job to all those that participated and contributed. Once again, please test more product and ARFComers will listen. ls |
 That's a very gracious gesture. One good turn deserves another.... |
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Thanks to all involved. Great info and all of the uppers submitted look great. For someone on a smaller budget like me it's nice to know that lower cost does not equal a lesser product. To Mr. Noveske: Your generosity is awe inspiring. May God Bless you for your gift to an as yet unnamed service member. |
I'll bid 10,000 Iraqie Dinars for it  You guys are great. Thanks for the great write up. ATB |
You rock Mr. Noveske headbang.gif John needs to be an industry partner! |
You Sir, Are a gentleman! Thanks, Mike EDIT: I just noticed thats John's second post! 
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NEWARGUY, you're a credit to the shooting community, good work, great job, and just as important, EXCELLENT write-up. as regards this.... That's just awesome.
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Excellent job, thank you for your time. Good to see that you can get into the 6.8 and get into it well at just about any price point. Predictable (and great) to see that those who complained about the time this took have been silent so far. As to John's generosity, no surprise there although all of the people who provided uppers are to be commended . Again, well done. 
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Not too bad, but your overall average group size does not take into account range. A 6.5" to 8.0" 5 shot group average @ 650 yards is very good. Selected Examples: MSTN 100 yds - 1.14 MOA 300 yds - 0.88 MOA 650 yds - 0.96 MOA Average MOA - 0.99 Noveske 100 yds - 0.84 MOA 300 yds - 0.99 MOA 650 yds - 1.13 MOA Average MOA - 0.99 Global Tactical 100 yds - 0.90 MOA 300 yds - 0.92 MOA 650 yds - 2.20 MOA Average MOA - 1.34 LMT 100 yds - 1.02 MOA 300 yds - 1.41 MOA 650 yds - 1.84 MOA Average MOA - 1.42 Ko-Tonics 100 yds - 1.19 MOA 300 yds - 1.95 MOA 650 yds - 1.54 MOA Average MOA - 1.56 STAG 100 yds - 1.31 MOA 300 yds - 1.83 MOA 650 yds - 2.80 MOA Average MOA - 1.98 You get the idea, right? Your chart also does not take into account just how well ALL of the uppers shot, even out to 650 yards. Number allow do not explain everything. Again, much thanks to Neil for his hard work in completing the test/eval of these uppers. Glad what little $$ I submitted went to a worthy endeavor. |
WOW, I was going border line between buying a MTSN upper and the Noveske, after that, there is no doubt I am going to support Noveske, in no way am I saying that MTSN is not a great upper or company, but John is THE MAN. Thank You John for supporting our troops and vets, in any way even a gesture such as this. 
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Ko-Tonics... you were lamenting about the overall accuracy of the groups... Here is what I have found... (and I've probably shot about 50 5 shot groups with my rifle now...) The first group is usually between 1.5-3"... once the barrel is warmed up (and perhaps even fouled) a little (not a lot) I start getting really tight groups with my rifle. I've got a mess of HSM V-max that shoots worse than Remington, so I've started blasting 5 rounds in about 60 seconds to get the barrel warmed, then I settle down and shoot good groups. |
Hey thanks very much for this... I was hoping someone would be able to... And thanks most of all to new-arguy and all his hard work |
Thanks new-arguy for all the work put in on this thread, I just wish I was there to help out with the full auto test  .Ko-tonics you'll be getting an order from me eventually. seven hundred and some dollars good results. I don't think I need to spend $1700+ dollars on something else.
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Wow. BTW, I heard hardcore praises of your products and personal support from some pretty badass operators this week. |
John, Thank you for your gracious donation. After Neil put some feelers out with his friends, it was decided that your upper is going to be donated to my best friend. He is a SSgt in the USMC with a Scout/Sniper and Intel background who has 5 full combat deployments in the last 4 yrs. I am going to throw in a lower so that he gets a complete rifle. He has expressed a lot of interest in the 6.8 over the last few years, and now that he'll be stateside for a while, he has no excuse not to get started. Once again, thank you very much. |
Awesome!
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NEW CHART NOW WITH MOA!!!!! UPPER STATS  Abreviations YHM = Yankee Hill Machine Y NM Chrome = Young Manufacturing's National Match Chrome Carrier Extractor: std. = standard spring extra = extra power spring blk = black insert blue = blue insert O = O-ring IF ANYBODY HAS ANYTHING THEY WOULD LIKE TO ADD TO THE CHART LET ME KNOW. POLYTECH |
When I bought my lower last year I knew less than diddly about AR15s. I knew that Noveske logo looked really cool though and I appreciated what I percieved to be the company's attitude, so spent a little extrta dough and went Noveske. I still don't know much when it comes to AR15s but I know a class act when I see one. Proud to be a Noveske customer. |
Thanks for the kind words but all I did is help you refine your own thoughts. I had some thoughts on this whole test: 1) Neil deserves a lot of credit for his 'stick to it ness'. I do not know if I would have had the fortitude. 2) The overall consistency of Art's ammo. For everyone who is looking for quality 6.8 ammo, Silver State Armory is THE place to start. 3) What a overall great effin' value Tim's (Ko-Tonics) upper is. Tim, you best get to work in 2008! 4) How well all 11 uppers shot to 300 yards. This is the 95 percentile for most of the people who will buy a 6.8 upper in the next 12 months. ETA: Stag is going to sell a sh*tload! 5) That the value continuum is in effect and you DO get what you pay for. 6) How can I get one of each upper and still stay married? 
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This is one of your pictures of the LWRC entry. You actually consider those ramps smooth and almost perfectly aligned? I thought, and this is just my opinion that they were one of the worst. Other than that, good work. It is obvious you put a lot of time and energy into this. 
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Did we have enough info availble to add a line containing what chamber each bbl had? SAAMI vs Improved vs whatever |
The lower ramps are wider than those on the barrel. However, the barrels ramps are closey alligned between the lowers ramps instead of being twisted or askew. |
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