Since there are a number of people confused as to what transpired and why, I will again attempt to clear the air.

Over the course of 2 years Robert Silvers, an AAC employee, began pushing AAC products on this site and speaking poorly about competitor's products. He claimed to not be associated with AAC at the time, which is only known by himself and AAC. Insults and attacks against other companies and their products ranged from posts to direct IMs to users blasting them for not choosing AAC products. He was banned from the site.

AAC then came forward offering to advertise on the site. Once accepted they requested strongly that Robert be given another chance as he was an employee of theirs and critical to their operation. We decided to allow Robert to return under the conditions that he was clearly marked as an AAC employee and would refrain from engaging in similar actions. Obviously he failed to live up to that and was once again removed from the site and left to wallow on his AAC fan boy website.

KevinAAC (Kevin Brittingham - [email protected]) also became melancholy and began insulting the staff and members of this site in subsequent forum posts. As things deteriorated, Silvers made additional attempts to register with AAC accounts, only to provide "information" and no commentaries. These accounts were rejected, as expected.

As things came to a head again a few weeks ago, Cara Brittingham posted on behalf of Robert which caused the staff to question who was using the account. Since our IPs have matched Robert and Kevin's accounts several times, the IP match only confirmed that it could be any of them. Further scans of IPs also confirmed that before Robert was officially "employed" by AAC and pushing their products, he was in fact using the same IP base as KevinAAC AND Suppressor_Professor.

Again, while looking at the IPs, we found several users tied to the same IPs. At this time we have not looked into what exactly these other accounts were used for, but it's clear that RSilver, Suppressor_Professor, and other accounts were tied to KevinAAC.

Believe who you wish and what you wish, but this is just another case of someone being asked to leave quietly and making a giant stink in an effort to look like the good guy. AAC has been misleading the users here and the staff and now have turned to insults and attacks. Apparently when so many lies are told, they blend together and it becomes difficult to remember what the truth actually was.

All of these IP scans can be done by staff or mod and verified. So to Kevin at AAC, I wish you the best in your attempts to continue to lie and manipulate people. It's a shame that quality products can't just stand on their own these days.



================================

KevinAAC
66.32.245.117
12/13/2005 9:04:12 PM EDT

rsilvers
66.32.245.117
12/13/2005 6:32:26 PM EDT

================================

rsilvers
208.61.114.11
4/30/2006 11:19:27 PM EDT

KevinAAC
208.61.114.11
4/30/2006 10:40:26 PM EDT

rsilvers
208.61.114.11
4/30/2006 8:33:57 PM EDT

================================

Azalin
208.61.100.178
6/29/2006 5:45:29 PM EDT

KevinAAC
208.61.100.178
6/29/2006 4:16:03 PM EDT


Azalin
208.61.100.178
6/29/2006 4:00:46 PM EDT

================================

KevinAAC
68.155.162.28
1/18/2006 7:10:31 PM EDT


Suppressor_Professor
68.155.162.28
1/18/2006 12:21:43 PM EDT

================================

Suppressor_Professor
68.209.17.221
12/16/2005 4:27:01 PM EDT

rsilvers
68.209.17.221
12/16/2005 4:00:18 PM EDT

Suppressor_Professor
68.209.17.221
12/16/2005 3:46:26 PM EDT

================================



For the record, I offered Kevin a chance to walk away if he simply removed the insults to EdAvilaSr, the staff, and the site and the lies posted on their site and he refused to do so. I will protect my family and all the users in this community when forced into a corner and stand behind every action we take. If we're wrong, we will honestly and willingly accept responsibility for our actions, as we have for the past 10 years.

I apologize to everyone here for once again having to uncover another ugly situation in the community, but as always the facts are more telling than the people having the argument.

POSTED BY NAM: Quoted: As explained in the link above, Cara wasn't a problem, the use of her account by Silvers was. An IP address is zero proof of who made the post. It may very well mean the psot was made from the same computer, or same network. But it is in no way proof that the post was made by someone other than Cara. IS there some other evidence, or are you soley using the IP to "prove" that Cara's account was used by silvers? I can post a quote by the president. That sure as shit doesn't make me GW. I think this whole situation is getting blown out of proportion. But that's just my 2 cents.

Quoted: Quoted: As explained in the link above, Cara wasn't a problem, the use of her account by Silvers was. An IP address is zero proof of who made the post. It may very well mean the psot was made from the same computer, or same network. But it is in no way proof that the post was made by someone other than Cara. IS there some other evidence, or are you soley using the IP to "prove" that Cara's account was used by silvers? I can post a quote by the president. That sure as shit doesn't make me GW. I think this whole situation is getting blown out of proportion. But that's just my 2 cents.

Ok you know that the IP matching means they are on the same network or same machine, depending on how their network is setup. This means that at those times when the IPs matched, they were in the same location physically or using company resources if they have a VPN, etc. Either way Robert was promoting AAC products and in the same room as Cara way before AAC had anything to do with the site and back when he was banned for attacking competitor's products.

So I guess that's ok? You seem to have enough knowledge about networking to realize there's no excuse that will go back to 2005 to cover Robert's involvement. Simply put, they have been lying for quite some time now.

tag

Quoted: I'm not debating the rsilvers/AAC connection. You stated the use of cara's account by rsilvers was the problem. Your response still does not show what proof you have that silvers was using Cara's account. A matching IP is not proof. Heck, they may have even been on the same computer. I still fail to see legitimate evidence to back your claim that silvers was using cara's account.

There can never be absolute proof and you know that. The fact is that what was posted brought into question who and why it was made in the manner it was made. The simple truth is Kevin knew what he was doing by posting it on a non AAC account. He wanted a way out in as much as we did.

Now my wife kinda asked me why I always wait till people slap me in the face to expose their lies and I honestly don't know. I think I still want to see the good in people and at lease some common sense to just walk away from a fight. The guys on the other forum have thrown insult upon insult at us and Kevin has acted like a 12 year old running to the board and posting modified emails and screaming "LOOK AT WHAT I HAVE!!!" He continues to point out what evil bastards we are, yet he and Robert are hailed as heroes for acting like that. Meanwhile, I get questioned for trying to avoid this EXACT scenario and posting information that proves they were in bed together while Silvers was bashing AACs competitors.

Well, now we have another bullshit nightmare in which people have lied to sell more products. I'm so glad too, because I didn't actually want to make it through a month without having to feel a slave to someone else's fuck ups.

Quoted: Since we're using IP logs, what would be interesting to know is this: What percentage of RSilver's posts came from that network?  And what percentage of Cara's / Kevin's came from that network?

I can check the logs, but they had a TON of different IPs and subnets where their IPs came from. These are also just the logs for certain actions, not posts. Running a search on Posted IPs is much more intensive and I didnt want to spend time posting a bunch of threads where they matched each other or matched the login IPs.

Keep in mind all these are relatively short time periods and it was a pattern that existed multple times. I didn't post all the matches or even subnet matches that came up, just the ones which are easily shown to be one person's account logging in, then another one, and so forth.

Quoted: Now my wife kinda asked me why I always wait till people slap me in the face to expose their lies and I honestly don't know.

And staff hammers him every day asking the same question.  

I think I still want to see the good in people and at lease some common sense to just walk away from a fight.

Rest assured folks, we are working daily to disabuse him of that notion.  

Folks, no one is saying to not patronize AAC.  This is only in response to flat-out lies being told about this site and the Avilas.  

Bottom line from the site's perspective:  the principals of AAC lied about who was posting for their benefit.  The IP matches posted by GB prove this beyond a doubt.  From his perspective, he refuses to be associated with liars.  We have an ongoing battle behind the scenes over this because he naively just can't fathom the notion people aren't always truthful.  

This whole thing means the site doesn't want an association with AAC, but it does NOT mean their products are in any way "bad" or that YOU shouldn't do business with them.  We are NOT asking for anyone to boycott them or anything silly like that.  This whole thing is ONLY to clarify why GB and AAC had a parting of the ways.  When they choose to mischaracterize things, then this kind of thread becomes necessary.  <shrug>

May 31st, 2006 Juan, I would like to sign up AAC as a site sponsor and industry partner even if we can not get one of the home page slots.  Please e-mail me or mail me pricing at your earliest convenience. Robert Silvers will now be an AAC employee and we would appreciate if his account would be unlocked.  Thanks. Freddy W. Thompson Jr. Advanced Armament Corp. June 1, 2006 I would also like to emphasize that Robert only recently starting working for AAC around six weeks ago.  He is not an on site employee and his work for AAC stops at a few silencer designs that he contributed to us recently. June 6, 2006 Thanks for your response. Robert was not an employee of AAC until very recently.  Robert has used factual arguments and often compares products in order to provide people with his assessment of what the best silencer is. I never wrote to you expecting you to police the threads or any of the other moderators.  My problem is why people can post blatant jokes and attacks that have no technical merit and are in them selves not even related to the topic in which the forum is dedicated to.  Those members in the aforementioned thread Ian and 1928A1 never contribute useful information but are allowed to continue there baiting without any hindrance.   Robert and I are not bothered by them but why is he singled out, and have his account locked if he is simply responding to people who post attacks or incorrect information?  My whole point is to avoid his account being locked by Steve_VA or any other site staff or moderator because Robert responds.  If he can respond as any other individual on this site is given freedom to then we have no problem.   Thanks for your time. Freddy W. Thompson Jr. Advanced Armament Corp.

This is why those IPs call into question the timing of those IP matches with Roberts bashing of competitor's products and the IP match with Cara's account.

Ok listen, I dont want this to get out of hand or worsen, I realize I'm upset and others are as well.

What it comes down to is simple, AAC was removed for not being honest with us. They wanted out, we wanted out, it should have ended. Well, it didnt and Kevin and Robert wanted to try to inflict pain and cover their asses.

What's in here only shows that they have had a long standing relationship, even though they presented themselves otherwise. The reason for their removal was Silvers being allowed to post through company accounts to help AAC present their products in the best of light and to present arguments as to why their products should be chosen over all others. The IP matches date back to fall 2005 and show that they indeed did have a relationship before admitting as much. They used this relationship (free toys to Robert perhaps?) to push their products with an industry "expert" backing them.

Believe what you will, buy what you WANT to buy, and we'll let this discussion go for a few days and lock it. Meanwhile they can continue to cry, bitch, and moan about whatever they want.

Quoted: Board wars suck.

No kidding--AND IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT!!!!!  Or Bush's.  

Here's my 2 cents from the trashed thread:

"Some clarity:

First of all, regarding Cara, I asked a question that I thought was legitimate. I thought it was Robert using her account. If I was wrong, my bad but the question was sincere. In fact, her post was a re-post of Roberts from his site (a fact I did not even know at the time, but corroborates my suspicion). It was Robert's post, no matter how you slice it. Just because she "changes it a little" doesn't make it any different, in fact it drives home the point (that this was Robert's post).

I did not attack her, I did not insult her, I simply asked a question. A simply "no, it's Cara" would have sufficed and I would have shut up. Should I have IM'd her? With 20/20 hindsight it's a good point. I guess with that same hindsight, her response would be different as well. In the end, it's irrelevant now.

She decided to get cute and so did I in response. The "him/her" comment was an intimation that this was Robert, nothing more. I thought that was clear. I was trying to be funny- as was she I'm sure.

I actually have no problem with Kevin getting pissed, I would expect that from a husband. His actions beyong that are childish.

In the end I HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH HER BANNING NOR AAC'S BANNING. I did not "chime in" on those decisions. I'm being lambasted by Kevin over at that site and that's fine, because it just reinforces my take on his character. He promotes his position that this is all my work by disemintating untruths.

The STW thing is actually quite funny. Kevin and Robert have not liked me for some time because I have maintained that STW cans are quieter than AAC cans (I did my own test some time ago before AAC was an IP and posted the results and stated that is was "IMO" and specifically unscientific- just ears only). Both Kevin and Robert IM'd me telling me I was full of shit- that my own ears were wrong. I laid a solid challenge to both- back to back - my STW .223 can against their M4-2000, winner gets the other's can and we post the results. They refused the challenge (several times). Oh, BTW, Robert in one of the IMs said that the STW can was "probably quieter" because it was a newer model and was a little bigger (IM still saved).

Robert testing my can was absolutely irrelevant and had nothing to do with this. In the end, I wanted our own test with me present, not a test by Robert only- that is what I proposed (Robert had contacted the owner of STW for a test and the owner said "no thanks"). In the end, I actually felt pretty good about the whole thing. They are the ones with heartburn IMO.

I HAVE ALL OF THE IMs SAVED.

STW does not advertize to the public. THEY USUALLY DON'T SELL TO THE PUBLIC. I'm not related to them business-wise. To suggest I am is a lie and to intimate I'm trying to promote their cans by getting rid of AAC is beyond stupid. STW DOES NOT ADVERTIZE on arfcom and never will. They sell to the governement only- it is rare they sell to civilians (you have to call them specifically and ask as they don't have their cans stocked with other dealers nor do they have "authorized dealers")."


Here's an IM I sent to Mongo in response to more untruths:

"I've seen your post regarding the AAC mess.

You are propogating a few lies regarding me (don't worry, I'm not going to sue you  ).

I do not have financial ties to STW. You claim I do, you stated: "Also Steve has said he has no financial interest with any suppressor manufactures, specifically SWR but he is a good friend of the SWR owner and as a FFL/SOT sell their products so he is obviously lying again".

First, it's STW, not SWR.

Second, I never said I "sell their products". You made this up. I sell to the military and LE (never sold an STW item in this regard). I have NEVER brokered a deal for STW nor acted as their agent in selling their products. I have never "partnered with them" as Kevin stated nor do I have a financial interest in STW. If you continue to lie about it, why don't you make up some proof while you're at it 'cause it doesn't exist.

Third, you state I'm lying "again". I've never lied about any of this and would love to hear some pearls of wisdom from you to the contrary.

This red herring, although amusing, is really kind of a sad grasp by AAC and you.

You state: "Did he ever talk to his mods? He of course refused to answer that one." I don't remember that being asked of me, but I will answer it: NO, I did not. So what? I said I suspected Robert was using the account so it really doesn't matter whether I talked to my mods about who used it in the past. As I said, if I was wrong, my bad and that a simple, "no, it's Cara" would have sufficed. You and AAC have failed to understand any of this and keep signing the same tune.

My feelings won't get hurt if you post this IM, but if you do, make sure it's done in it's intirety."

I will also add that I never, once, banned or locked Silvers (they have claimed this over and over in public and through IMs).

Since I'm starting to repeat myself, I think I'm starting to beat a tits-up horse and will leave the children to play.  

PS:  For those of you who have supported me, you each get a FREE suppressor from my 20,000 square foot STW suppressor factory!  

Silvers was shown the door by Tom.

Not sure about AAC in general.

For the record I locked Cara's account because of her smart ass reply to Steve's legitimate question.
Whether or not it was rsilvers or her is irrelevant to me. It was just another example of their less then professional attitude towards ar15.com.
Their subsequent lies and ranting on rsilvers site is just more proof of what we've been dealing with behind the scenes.

Quoted: Could some explain to me how I get thrown in with you hooligans?  I don't even post here! -boller

No clue!

As I said before, Freddy has been wonderful to work with and a class act through every exchange we've had.

Quoted: archive.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=17&t=198808 That last one is interesting... Notice how Steve-in-VA tries to provoke rsilvers.  Also notice rsilvers disclosure in his sig line. These are just a few, you get the idea. it becomes difficult to remember what the truth actually was. Thank God for the Archives. the facts are more telling than the people having the argument.

Yes, thank God for archives and saved IMs.  

Funny you reference that thread since it's a clear indication of the type of AAC midirection we had to deal with on a regular basis.  

Now, do me a favor and go back and read the original post (this time read it all)- see where crashburnrepeat asks for opinions on three cans?  See the make of each can?  Tactical Innovations, Gemtech and AWC.  Notice how AAC is not one of those cans?  Now go and read Silver's reply to the question . . . he recommends an AAC can.  

I was doing my job.  This was AFTER he had been warned several times about this type of tripe.  This is why he was banned from Bower's board.  This one of the reasons he's no longer here.

Thanks for reminding us why he was banned.  

Good job.

Quoted: I feel the whole this should be hashed out like adults and firm agreements made in order not to alienate valuable resources for this site. My 2 cents, like it or not.

Fair enough--and I agree completely, even to the point of "like it."  The problem is, and this has been ignored by the AAC people completely, they had an agreement here and chose to violate it.  ALL advertisers have the same agreement since the PLW thing.  That said, what is the site to do when an advertiser chooses to violate the "firm agreement" they had with the site?  When it's a company we have had problems with anyway, this further compounds the situation.  

Again, this is not about them being bad with products or stealing or anything remotely like that.  We are not trashing them or asking for a silly boycott.  It's merely a mutual parting of ways in the business agreement.  The company name will not be stricken from the site--assuming they don't escalate this further.  <shrug>

I'm late for a meeting, so I only have time to say--I agree it could have been handled better by both sides.

Quoted: Quoted: This situation is unfortunate for the members here on the boards. We have lost a valuable resource to the forums, maybe in the future these issues may be resolved in a way that will meet both end users needs. Communication is key in situations like this. Agreed, this whole incident is childish. I'll still read and port here but more of my time will be spent on www.silencertests.com/ I feel the whole this should be hashed out like adults and firm agreements made in order not to alienate valuable resources for this site. My 2 cents, like it or not.

 Maybe both sides did, or didn't.  I don't know.
 You can only hashed out so much like adults.  If things don't work out, the best way is to part.
 Divorce happens every day due to 'irreconcilable differences'.