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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Gun_Cranks latest project (Page 1 of 8)
Posted: 6/11/2010 7:50:14 AM EDT
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As some of you know, I am a machinist.
I have been cutting metal for about 15 years now. After getting my degree in Technical Illustration/Graphic Design (emphasis model making) from Bemidji State University, I went to work at a pattern and mold shop. After a couple years there I went to a company that built prototype toys for all of the big toy companies. Turns out that I enjoyed running the cnc's more than doing all of the creative hand fabbed stuff. So I went back to the pattern and mold shop. After about a year and a half back, things in the industry started to slow down, and I was sent home for a couple weeks. The other guy that was sent home spent his two weeks drinking, I drove to Florida with my uncles truck to pick up my first machining center, that I won off Ebay. Sight unseen didn't even know if it would power up, but I wasn't to nervous because the company that built it is based in MN. It took a little bit of work to get it running, and maybe about $400.00 worth of parts. I was able to keep my pie hole shut for about four months that I had a shop in my garage. The shop consisted of an Acra manual mill with a 10" x 50" table, a Heavy 10 southbend lathe, and a 1994 Milltronics Partner 1. I started coming to work every day with a chip on my shoulder because I didn't like the way they were running things. Well it wasn't to much later, and I was invited to leave. I really need to go talk to the owner because he did me a big favor and I have never thanked him. Seriously. FF to today, It is still a small shop With one machining center, a Hardinge HLVH lathe and the same old Acra Countersinking machine. Plus Tens of thousands of dollars worth of measuring equipment, tool holders, end mills, drills, material, etc. I do not do production machining. The highest number of parts that I have run in the past five years is a three hundred piece run, and it was for a friend. Most of the jobs that come through the shop are in the quantity of less than five pieces, and every now and then getting up to 20 pieces. I am a prototype machinist. I enjoy the setup and the programming. Putting the part in and watching it run after the first two are done is boring to me. There is a guy in the shop next door that has been running the same part for about 8 months straight. five days a week 10 hours a day. If I had to do that job I would quit after the first week. On to the reason I created this post. I thought you guys might find it interesting to see the parts that I am creating here, because it changes just about every day. I won't update if I am running the same parts, because I do get repeat orders on many of the parts I run. I also can't post pics if the parts I am doing are top secret. This is right after I moved into this bay about a year ago. Parts pics to follow. 
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Many Times I can be found surfing arfcom, and this is why. Slave labor FTW.
So simple a 10yr old can do it. 
Shutter speed was fast, he is really deburing these parts. 
Almost Done. 
Finished 
Actually school is out, and these guys want to earn some money. Son #1 is 13 years old, and Son #2 is about to turn 10. A birthday for these kids means a raise, They both get half their age in hourly pay. You might think that's not enough, but It's more than I ever got, and both these kids got about a hundred bucks coming to them as of yesterday. I wasn't going to put Son #2 on the clock for running the vise jaws, because I figured I would be running them myself with him helping. Wrong, he is keeping the cnc running and deburing the steel vise jaws with minimal supervision. Son # 1 is just pulling the handle and hitting the stop. He has been around the shop long enough to know to keep his hands away from the sharp stuff. |
You are really giving your kids a great head start by having them working for you in your shop. Early exposure to "the way things work" will help them so much in life. It's amazing to me how many people have no mechanical aptitude. I don't see that being a problem for your guys.
I'm also a one man shop that does no production work, so I know what you mean. I hate looking at a print and seeing a quantity or 40 or 50. 
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Quoted: When your boys are 16 and can start working, they go and apply at a machine shop and the foreman asks them what experience they have the look on his face when they start listing stuff off will be priceless. Many Times I can be found surfing arfcom, and this is why. Slave labor FTW. http://i637.photobucket.com/albums/uu94/Thumbnuts/Shop/IMG_2163Medium.jpg http://i637.photobucket.com/albums/uu94/Thumbnuts/Shop/IMG_2167Medium.jpg So simple a 10yr old can do it. http://i637.photobucket.com/albums/uu94/Thumbnuts/Shop/IMG_2176Medium.jpg http://i637.photobucket.com/albums/uu94/Thumbnuts/Shop/IMG_2177Medium.jpg Shutter speed was fast, he is really deburing these parts. http://i637.photobucket.com/albums/uu94/Thumbnuts/Shop/IMG_2169Medium.jpg Almost Done. http://i637.photobucket.com/albums/uu94/Thumbnuts/Shop/IMG_2178Medium.jpg Finished http://i637.photobucket.com/albums/uu94/Thumbnuts/Shop/IMG_2179Medium.jpg Actually school is out, and these guys want to earn some money. Son #1 is 13 years old, and Son #2 is about to turn 10. A birthday for these kids means a raise, They both get half their age in hourly pay. You might think that's not enough, but It's more than I ever got, and both these kids got about a hundred bucks coming to them as of yesterday. I wasn't going to put Son #2 on the clock for running the vise jaws, because I figured I would be running them myself with him helping. Wrong, he is keeping the cnc running and deburing the steel vise jaws with minimal supervision. Son # 1 is just pulling the handle and hitting the stop. He has been around the shop long enough to know to keep his hands away from the sharp stuff. |
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Quoted: Quoted: I'm jealous of your shop. I just have to settle for my bench grinders/sanders, and my table top Grizzly mill and lathe.  Thanks- I'm jealous of guys that get a regular paycheck. I hear ya there, if I had to survive on contract IT work I'd definitely have less hair than I already do. |
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Quoted:
You are really giving your kids a great head start by having them working for you in your shop. Early exposure to "the way things work" will help them so much in life. It's amazing to me how many people have no mechanical aptitude. I don't see that being a problem for your guys.
I'm also a one man shop that does no production work, so I know what you mean. I hate looking at a print and seeing a quantity or 40 or 50. Definitely. You're giving your boys two of the most priceless things a father can. Knowledge and time. |
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Nice! Good to see the kids wearing eye pro too.
I ran a Milltronics Partner for a while, but it was completely different than yours. No enclosure, and it's set up to run as a conversational/manual. It's a very poorly designed machine, but it is accurate. Need two people to run it...one midget and one giant. It's hard to describe, but it really wasn't a pleasant machine to run. I'd love to go back to tool and die type work...or at least something where I'm not just running a CNC mill all the time. 
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Great work!
I've been a machinist since 1978, and a Protoype Machinist since 1985. Set-up, design and all the MasterCam work is were the fun is. Nonetheless, it's been steady work; I've been at the company since 1980.... Might just make it to retirement here..... Good luck with your business!! |
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Thanks for the nice comments guys.
Didn't have to much to do last week, and now I am getting hammered with work. It's been really up and down lately. It can be difficult to schedule work with only one guy and one machining center. I will put a .223 round in future pictures for scale factor. 400 series SS 
6061 Designer/Engineer doesn't know how to properly put a radius on a part. I think that the radius tool should be a locked option on any CAD program, until the Designer can prove that they have a years worth of shop experience. 
Couple dimensions on this one that were + .002 
This is what $800.00 looks like. 
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Quoted:
This is what $800.00 looks like. http://i637.photobucket.com/albums/uu94/Thumbnuts/Shop%20Parts/IMG_2196Medium.jpg I blew out a $400 face mill last weekend because the programmer didn't run verify on his tool path...ran over a bolt head in rapid about an inch and a quarter deep in the part. The bad part is, that's the third time that's happened...with that tool...IIRC.
Good looking parts, btw.
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Quoted:
Thanks for the nice comments guys. ... 6061 Designer/Engineer doesn't know how to properly put a radius on a part. I think that the radius tool should be a locked option on any CAD program, until the Designer can prove that they have a years worth of shop experience.
... I generally with hold critical comment about the details incorporated in a part until I understand its function. That corner might be okay and necessary for part location. But the odds are it's not; I confiscated the first inboard main landing gear trunnions for Bird of Prey when they came in without fillet radii. That was in a time when drawing solids was still in the future, and the vendor didn't bother to read the drawing notes to find the rest of the story. Anyway, your part there could have been made with more hilarity if it had an internal corner radius smaller than the adjacent external corner radii shown on the part. Stuff like this is what happens when there is not a second set of eyes checking work and the guy that drew the part was either under time pressure or didn't give a crap. Or both. |
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Quoted:
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Thanks for the nice comments guys. ... 6061 Designer/Engineer doesn't know how to properly put a radius on a part. I think that the radius tool should be a locked option on any CAD program, until the Designer can prove that they have a years worth of shop experience. http://i637.photobucket.com/albums/uu94/Thumbnuts/Shop%20Parts/IMG_2192Medium.jpg ... I generally with hold critical comment about the details incorporated in a part until I understand its function. That corner might be okay and necessary for part location. But the odds are it's not; I confiscated the first inboard main landing gear trunnions when they came in without fillet radii. That was in a time when drawing solids was still in the future, and the vendor didn't bother to read the drawing notes to find the rest of the story. Anyway, your part there could have been made with more hilarity if it had an internal corner radius smaller than the adjacent external corner radii shown on the part. Stuff like this is what happens when there is not a second set of eyes checking work and the guy that drew the part was either under time pressure or didn't give a crap. Or both. Amazes me every damn time, machine shop is getting an order for multiple thousands of $$$$, and doesn't even read the Notes/Part Report that gives critical info––you deserve to lose you ass on making them when you pull that crap. I don't have the temperament for machine shop idiocy to be in Supplier Management. It does seem doubtful that those radii are necessary given the direction of the counterbore...I can think of a couple ways that it "could" happen, though––but it would have to be an abnormal or inefficient design to begin with. OP, can't you mention the cost of the radii and what kind of $$ savings are possible if it was changed to your customer? Work the numbers right and you can make more margin for less headache...maybe. |
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snip You are correct about withholding comment on certain features, until I understand the function of the part. I'm sure I could find a better way to point out what I feel is a design flaw. In the future I will try to be more professional. FYI the drawing in question calls out the internal corner as "2X MAX R" there was no # to define the what the max radius was. The part was also drawn just like it looks, no blends or internal radius shown. I would guess that 9 times out of 10 the designer looks at a part and decides that a radius looks good on a certain edge, pulls out there magic radius tool, with very little thought put into how it is made and how the mating surfaces are affected. |
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snip It does seem doubtful that those radii are necessary given the direction of the counterbore...I can think of a couple ways that it "could" happen, though––but it would have to be an abnormal or inefficient design to begin with. OP, can't you mention the cost of the radii and what kind of $$ savings are possible if it was changed to your customer? Work the numbers right and you can make more margin for less headache...maybe. This part is getting bolted to something, and I'm sure that an operators hand will be working close to the radius of the part, so it is necessary, "just not all the way to the inside corner". On a part like this for a customer that I have a pretty good relationship with. They show me the drawing and I look at it for about 2 minutes. We talk about features that jump out at us or missing dimensions, we discuss the price if all seems good I get a PO and run the part/parts. The cost on one part to blend that radius by hand was not much. If the order was for more than 5 pieces, I would've gotten an OK to blend it out as close as possible to the inside corner, with a corner rounding end mill. Quoted:
Cool thread. Any chance you could set up and crank out some AR related stuff when you have lulls in your workload? Maybe you could machine AR wrenches or similar items and sell them on the equipment exchange??? Or is that market saturated? Thanks I have several firearms related ideas to manufacture when things slow down. Most of them are in the design stage right now, so when I get slow I work on the Solidworks models. I don't think the AR market is saturated, but it is not what I am concentrating on. The problem with that is, when I am busy doing customer work the money is coming in. When that type of works slows up, I usually find that I need more money. It's my time and materials that I need to invest in getting a product to market. That can be tough when busy because of the time commitment, and tough when things are slow because of the lack of funds. The reason I scrapped the Bren project was because any spare time I have right now, I am trying to spend on my products. |
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snip You are correct about withholding comment on certain features, until I understand the function of the part. I'm sure I could find a better way to point out what I feel is a design flaw. In the future I will try to be more professional. FYI the drawing in question calls out the internal corner as "2X MAX R" there was no # to define the what the max radius was. The part was also drawn just like it looks, no blends or internal radius shown. I would guess that 9 times out of 10 the designer looks at a part and decides that a radius looks good on a certain edge, pulls out there magic radius tool, with very little thought put into how it is made and how the mating surfaces are affected. My point is simply that the corner might not be a design flaw. But chances are over 99% that it is a screw up, particularly in view of the radius note which simply amplifies the problem. When I was trained, I marked up every detail on a print (which includes the notes and parts list) with either a yellow pencil meaning it was okay, a red pencil with corrections, or my own comments and notes in some other color, generally blue or magenta. My boss at the time even marked up the drawing border, but that was one place I drew a line - my job was to examine the technical aspects, not drawing quality checker. [On a related topic, one of the things we do that is completely bass ackwards is the release of detail parts before the assemblies are sufficiently complete for analysis. Two things are mandatory in the analysis of structures, mechanisms, and subsystems such as air conditioning or bleed air - the analyst must absolutely understand the operation and function of the assembly (and hence the detail parts), and he has to analyze the overall assembly before the details making it up can be sized. There is no other way.] The detail we're discussing might be near impossible to render in some software. It hasn't been all that many years since the latest versions of Unigraphics would struggle with that detail, and even the current version might not permit some geometry intersections like we're seeing here. In my business, those details matter in the extreme. In consumer products that are generally not high performance structures or mechanisms it might not matter, but on the other hand, a very simple change in the design at that corner would improve the integrity of the part by several orders of magnitude without adding to the cost. In fact, the cost has increased now due to a need to sort out whether the detail is correct or usable as shown or the parts have to be made again. If the parts as made are scrap, then there's another increment of cost when the replacement parts are manufactured. All because of someone's sloppy work up front. skin290 has managed to escape my red pen. Although I've been told not to use red any more as that might hurt the designer's feelings, I pretty much ignore that bad advice and continue to mark 'em up as needed. |
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snip You are correct about withholding comment on certain features, until I understand the function of the part. I'm sure I could find a better way to point out what I feel is a design flaw. In the future I will try to be more professional. FYI the drawing in question calls out the internal corner as "2X MAX R" there was no # to define the what the max radius was. The part was also drawn just like it looks, no blends or internal radius shown. I would guess that 9 times out of 10 the designer looks at a part and decides that a radius looks good on a certain edge, pulls out there magic radius tool, with very little thought put into how it is made and how the mating surfaces are affected. My point is simply that the corner might not be a design flaw. But chances are over 99% that it is a screw up, particularly in view of the radius note which simply amplifies the problem. When I was trained, I marked up every detail on a print (which includes the notes and parts list) with either a yellow pencil meaning it was okay, a red pencil with corrections, or my own comments and notes in some other color, generally blue or magenta. My boss at the time even marked up the drawing border, but that was one place I drew a line - my job was to examine the technical aspects, not drawing quality checker. The detail we're discussing might be near impossible to render in some software. It hasn't been all that many years since the latest versions of Unigraphics would struggle with that detail, and even the current version might not permit some geometry intersections like we're seeing here. In my business, those details matter in the extreme. In consumer products that are generally not high performance structures or mechanisms it might not matter, but on the other hand, a very simple change in the design at that corner would improve the integrity of the part by several orders of magnitude without adding to the cost. In fact, the cost has increased now due to a need to sort out whether the detail is correct or usable as shown or the parts have to be made again. If the parts as made are scrap, then there's another increment of cost when the replacement parts are manufactured. All because of someone's sloppy work up front. skin290 has managed to escape my red pen. Although I've been told not to use red any more as that might hurt the designer's feelings, I pretty much ignore that bad advice and continue to mark 'em up as needed. I prefer pink...its softer on my feelings. 
Gonna be tough on your computer screen to use that red pen on MBD parts...use an old CRT... |
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Do you guys want to see parts like this? Pic was taken before scotchbrite and anodizing. Please excuse the surface finish.
I don't consider it a very exciting part. There was only one tight dimension. Distance between the reamed holes was + .001 Parts are 11" long, no 223 round for reference sorry. I took a bunch of pics over the last two weeks, but my camera sucks. I'll post them when I get a better camera. Woo Hoo 20pcs a big run for me. 
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Thanks guys.
I won't say what the parts are, unless I have permission from my customers. I also won't display part numbers or customer names if engraved on the part. Most of the parts I make will not be obvious, so you'll just have to use your imagination. Sorry. Quoted:
Build a wrench to install the Knight's Armament URX like the other machinist did...only build more than 1 and sell them. You would make a fortune... How many do you want? |
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MIC-6 Cast aluminum tooling plate.
Learned a valuable lesson on this one. Distance between holes was +.001" dia of holes were +.0002" I had about .0005" runout in my reamer but I figured that it would follow the pilot hole, and straighted itself out. It didn't. Mic-6 is a bit gummy. The reamer grabbed the material and cut a hole about .002" over, wrecking the part. The solution was to turn the coolant off, and brush on some Moly-Dee. Of course the second time around I practiced on my now scrap plate. The Setup 
In process. Not much to see. 
Just needs a light debur, scotchbrite, wash, done and deliver. 
Different plate same project. 
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303 stainless. Plates were annealed, but they still potato chipped on me. I ended up flipping them four times to get them to the flatness desired.
Started with 3/8 thick material and brought it down to .25" + .005 The only dimension that was somewhat tight was the counter bore at +.002" The counter bore dimension was easy to hold, after getting the plates to lay flat. 
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I send most of my anodizing to Spec Plating. I don't do any plating or painting "in house".
Copied from their website. Anodize per Mil-A-8625F, AMS A-8625, AMS 2472 & 580-0008 Type II & III The reason I give it a scothbrite finish is to give the parts a more even surface finish and to remove the tool marks. |
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I am so jealous my kind sir...very nice....and the boys are learning a wonderful trade.... read my sig... Check craigslist. I've been seeing quite a few machines pop up in the D/FW area. The lathes are usually quite a bit bigger than anything you'd need as a gunsmith(unless you wanted to make some cannons, lol) though. |
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I am so jealous my kind sir...very nice....and the boys are learning a wonderful trade.... read my sig... Check craigslist. I've been seeing quite a few machines pop up in the D/FW area. The lathes are usually quite a bit bigger than anything you'd need as a gunsmith(unless you wanted to make some cannons, lol) though. I would settle for a chinesse table top 7" between centers lathe right now just to play |
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Thanks for all the nice comments guys. I appreciate it. Makes me want to keep this thread going.
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gun crank, you are one awesome dad. when do they get to cut out their own firearm?  Cypher, You must have missed the thread in team, when Boy#1 turned 13 
One of these days we are going to finish some of these 0% lowers. 
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Quoted: i think thats more... -50%Thanks for all the nice comments guys. I appreciate it. Makes me want to keep this thread going. Quoted: gun crank, you are one awesome dad. when do they get to cut out their own firearm? Cypher, You must have missed the thread in team, when Boy#1 turned 13 http://i637.photobucket.com/albums/uu94/Thumbnuts/Family/IMG_1511Medium.jpg http://i637.photobucket.com/albums/uu94/Thumbnuts/Family/IMG_1564Medium.jpg http://i637.photobucket.com/albums/uu94/Thumbnuts/Family/IMG_1580Medium.jpg One of these days we are going to finish some of these 0% lowers. http://i637.photobucket.com/albums/uu94/Thumbnuts/Toys/IMG_2304Medium.jpg |
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Quoted: I did this part just before I started this thread. Customer called out the wrong countersink depth. I got it back to fix the depth. Part is black anodized 6061 aluminum. http://i637.photobucket.com/albums/uu94/Thumbnuts/Shop%20Parts/IMG_2279Medium.jpg great work btw, nosler bullets? |
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To busy to post pics lately.
Here is a few from my recent past. Every dimension on this part was +.001". I'll get a better camera eventually, and when I do I'll put up a lot more photos. 
Part of being a prototype machinist is going from the part above and then turning around and doing something with almost no dimensional tolerance at all. I inspected the following parts with a tape measure, after they were done. Those are two different parts. 
We had to grind the steel to get it ready for paint and it got a little loud in the shop. 
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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Gun_Cranks latest project (Page 1 of 8)
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