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Posted: 2/4/2011 3:49:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: AssaultRifler][Edited]
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http://www.accuratepowder.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/accurate_load_data_3.5.pdf "MIL" M855 projectiles, 62000 PSI Pressure Ramshot also lists 62K PSI load data using X-Terminator and TAC -> http://www.ramshot.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/ramshot_handgun_rifle.pdf  Disclaimer: this is just a snippet of all the data they have, I posted it as "proof". Go to their site for the complete and up to date data.  |
"Bullets change governments far surer than votes.." - Lord of War 2005
"The trouble with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money" – Margaret Thatcher
"The trouble with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money" – Margaret Thatcher
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Originally Posted By reelserious: 62K psi, not the lowly .223 pressure. Yeah, to my knowledge no one's published reloading data for 62K PSI pressure for .223 rounds before |
"Bullets change governments far surer than votes.." - Lord of War 2005
"The trouble with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money" – Margaret Thatcher
"The trouble with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money" – Margaret Thatcher
| That's what it looks like. The only thing that sucks is that I do not have any of that powder |
Ranger Airborne 1st Batt 75Inf NRA ENDOWMENT MEMBER
Army Ranger, Firefighter/Paramedic and born in America and believes in the Constitution, in the Government's eye's I'm a Terrorist. What has this country come to????
Army Ranger, Firefighter/Paramedic and born in America and believes in the Constitution, in the Government's eye's I'm a Terrorist. What has this country come to????
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Originally Posted By bfoosh06: Didn't Ramshot buy them ? If so that explains it to me. They offer good load data. Someone bought out the other or hired the same web designer compare http://www.accuratepowder.com/ and http://www.ramshot.com/powders/ especially the load data section. The format's the same! Ramshot also lists 62K PSI load data using X-Terminator and TAC |
"Bullets change governments far surer than votes.." - Lord of War 2005
"The trouble with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money" – Margaret Thatcher
"The trouble with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money" – Margaret Thatcher
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i load aa-2230 at 23.5g behind ss-109's. this is using lee single disk powder feeder with at 1.57cm hole (single disk setup). i have the double disk kit but see no reason to go higher. i get 2800 fps crono'ed out of a 16" carbine. yes, this is plinking ammo but fairly accurate.
eta: 2.250 oal |
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Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:
Originally Posted By bfoosh06:
Didn't Ramshot buy them ? If so that explains it to me. They offer good load data. Someone bought out the other or hired the same web designer compare http://www.accuratepowder.com/ and http://www.ramshot.com/powders/ especially the load data section. The format's the same! Ramshot also lists 62K PSI load data using X-Terminator and TAC WOW...the 62k PSI data has a max TAC load of 25.8 grains with a 75gr BTHP. |
machinist and highly agitated observer
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What is the barrel length for those loads? The velocities look Ho-hum for NATO stuff in the 55 & 62 grain and 20" bbl.
[ETA] Oops, the 2230 powder does seem impressive on second look. My bad. 
[ETA] NATO specifications for M855 Ball require a 61.7 grain (q 1.5 grains) with a hardened steel penetrator at a velocity of 3,000 fps (q 40 fps) from a 20" barrel @ 78 feet from the muzzle. Typical velocity 15 feet from the M16A2's muzzle is 3,100 fps { from ammo oracle} |
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Stupid question here, yeah I don't know everything about reloading yet, what's the relationship between barrel length and max pressure? Will a 62350 PSI round still be 62350 PSI if shot out of a 12', 14' 16", 18", 20', 22", or 24" barrel? I get the shorter barrel = less velocity concept. |
"Bullets change governments far surer than votes.." - Lord of War 2005
"The trouble with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money" – Margaret Thatcher
"The trouble with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money" – Margaret Thatcher
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Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:
Stupid question here, yeah I don't know everything about reloading yet, what's the relationship between barrel length and max pressure? Will a 62350 PSI round still be 62350 PSI if shot out of a 12', 14' 16", 18", 20', 22", or 24" barrel? I get the shorter barrel = less velocity concept. you are correct. The peak pressure does not change with barrel length for a given projectile and case/chamber configuration and powder load. |
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By the way, I have also noted this trend in the Hodgdon data. Why do they run the powder weight down to the 77 SMK (as one might expect), but then jump it back up for the 80 SMK, then start back down again?
[ETA] I second what TeeRex said. Using these data is a good way to beat up your rifle and get only one or two reloads out of your reloaded brass before the primer pocket gets loose. Also, never start at the max load listed above in your workup. |
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On ramshots data, did anyone else notice that they have the OAL listed as 2.26" on the 80 and 90 grain Sierra?
And then the weird part, on the 223-Long Throat section, they kept the same pressure max, but lengthened the OAL and reduced the powder charges? What is going on there? Brett. |
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Originally Posted By Brett_Walker:
On ramshots data, did anyone else notice that they have the OAL listed as 2.26" on the 80 and 90 grain Sierra? And then the weird part, on the 223-Long Throat section, they kept the same pressure max, but lengthened the OAL and reduced the powder charges? What is going on there? Brett. I wondered the same thing. I would be nice to have a mag length 80-90 gr bullet. |
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Originally Posted By InfiniteGrim:
I have no clue when the range will NOT be a solid sheet of ice, but I have 60rds of various AA2230 loads with SS109's starting at 24.2gr up to their max of 25.3grains. Wearing ice skates makes it easier to get down and check your targets, but they make it a little tougher to get settled down into your benchrest chair. I know! You can skate toward the target, then unleashe a beta mag dump from your AR! and you will slow down a little from the recoil force! It'll look just like an A10 coming in on a strafing run! Brett |
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Originally Posted By reelserious:
Yep, every time you mention going over .223 power levels certain people get all nervous. Yet oddly no one would question you shooting 3000 rounds of M855 in a carbine class. Go figure.  No one gets nervous. There's a monumental difference in M855 ammunition and reloads. One is manufactured with detailed quality control, the pressure of the lot is measured, and the data from the samples reduced to make sure the ammunition meets the requirements. There's an excerpt from the documents for M193 and M855 up in the Reloading References. The pressure produced by Joe Blow's hot rodded loads is a guess; sometimes an educated guess, sometimes a wild ass guess, and sometimes a bullshit load that some hack threw together. |
20 January 2013 - The End of an Error
1 lbf = 32.174 lbm-ft/sec^2
1 lbf = 32.174 lbm-ft/sec^2
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Originally Posted By CCW:
By the way, I have also noted this trend in the Hodgdon data. Why do they run the powder weight down to the 77 SMK (as one might expect), but then jump it back up for the 80 SMK, then start back down again? [ETA] I second what TeeRex said. Using these data is a good way to beat up your rifle and get only one or two reloads out of your reloaded brass before the primer pocket gets loose. Also, never start at the max load listed above in your workup. Go back and take a look at all the details of the two loads. One bullet is loaded to magazine length; what about the other bullet? The blunt ogive of the 77 grain MK is another factor that raises the pressure. |
20 January 2013 - The End of an Error
1 lbf = 32.174 lbm-ft/sec^2
1 lbf = 32.174 lbm-ft/sec^2
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Has anyone tried these loads yet?
I just tried out 24.2, 24.8, and 25.2gr of AA2230 with a SS109 and boy they were stout loads. The primers appear to be flattening but I'm not sure, I will post pictures in a little bit. But all three were reasonably accurrate using a 2moa aimpoint at 50 yards. I would have gotten velocity readings with my chronograph but some this one guy would leave and kept talking to me for 20+ minutes. By the time I got to shoot the loads it was 5:35 and getting dark fast. |
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Or try this with surplus powder...........
http://www.gun-shots.net/ballistics-chart.shtml Aloha, Mark |
"Guns don't kill people......the Government does."
Dale Dribble
Dale Dribble
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Originally Posted By ma96782:
Or try this with surplus powder........... http://www.gun-shots.net/ballistics-chart.shtml Aloha, Mark The reason I am interested in the AA2230 because it meters very well and midway had it for $13 a lb. EDIT: Thanks for the link , because I now know how much H335 to use with the pulled M856 projectiles I purchased. |
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Originally Posted By InfiniteGrim:
Originally Posted By ma96782:
Or try this with surplus powder........... http://www.gun-shots.net/ballistics-chart.shtml Aloha, Mark The reason I am interested in the AA2230 because it meters very well and midway had it for $13 a lb. EDIT: Thanks for the link , because I now know how much H335 to use with the pulled M856 projectiles I purchased. Using AA-2230 in 223, I worked up to 24.5 grs with a SS-109 bullet. Bullet seated to mid cannelure and crimped with a FCD. This load I consider max in my AR, as I got pressure signs with the hotter loads. AA-2230 is a good powder for 55 and 62 gr bullets, stock up. |
Selling agent for Algores carbon credit scam.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other.
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Originally Posted By dryflash3:
Wow, that was some fast shipping. 
First pic, just a couple that were just starting to go flat. Second pic, look good to me. Both pictures are of the same brass. 
The nail polish on the red ones make it hard to see, but it was the only way I could think of to mark them, but I do like how the nail polish worked out on the green ones, almost looks like primer sealant done in the factory. Plus I looked at my bolt and upper reciever and none of it came off in my gun. |
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Originally Posted By InfiniteGrim:
Originally Posted By dryflash3:
Wow, that was some fast shipping.
First pic, just a couple that were just starting to go flat. Second pic, look good to me. Both pictures are of the same brass.
The nail polish on the red ones make it hard to see, but it was the only way I could think of to mark them, but I do like how the nail polish worked out on the green ones, almost looks like primer sealant done in the factory. Plus I looked at my bolt and upper reciever and none of it came off in my gun. Second pic is darker, you got me. |
Selling agent for Algores carbon credit scam.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other.
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Originally Posted By InfiniteGrim:
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g165/InfiniteGrim/IMG_0828.jpg
EDIT OK AA2230 SS109 seated between middle and top of cannellure Blue: 24.2gr Green: 24.8gr Red: 25.2gr I think the primers on the red are flattening. I just wish It wasnt dark out and I could crono them! http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g165/InfiniteGrim/IMG_0835.jpg http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g165/InfiniteGrim/IMG_0833.jpg SS109 (pulled) 24.2gr AA2230 LC09 (1x) CCI41 Average: 2880 High: 2915 Low 2858 ES 57.4 STD 19.33 2915 2892 2899 2894 2884 2873 2859 2863 2867 2858 SS109 (pulled) 24.8gr AA2230 LC09 (1x) CCI41 Average: 2919 High: 2935 Low: 2881 ES: 54.51 STD: 17.29 2928 2934 2928 2935 2930 2914 2881 2923 2920 2898 SS109 (pulled) 25.2gr AA2230 LC09 (1x) CCI41 Average: 2960 High: 2991 Low: 2935 ES: 56.58 STD: 17.49 2968 2961 2937 2950 2991 2951 2955 2956 2935 2961 |
Semper Fi Nick
You will be greatly missed
You will be greatly missed
| I posted awhile back about getting 3150 fps out of the widners 62 gr.fmj with H335 out of a 20" colt barrel.The primers were slightly cratered and the load was very accurate.What is weird was when I worked it up I started low and went up .2 a grain till I reached one grain under where I had been before and the velocity just jumped; I stopped right there.I wish I knew what the pressure was and I would feel better about shooting that load I think I might pull them cause it seemed so high velocity wise. |
| I just ordered some ss109's and was hoping to get more info for the "official ss109 thread" like favorite powder, what accuracy to expect from pulled bullets, etc. My question is more of everyones fav powder. I have Varget, Benchmark, H335, Ramshot Terminator, and several IMR powders. My rifle is a 20" dpms with 1and 9 twist. My favorite load is 55gr HRDY v-max over 25.5grs of varget. This will be my first time loading and shooting heavier bullets so any advice is welcomed. I am also wondring how accurate I can expect these to be. I've never tried pulled bullets. I normally shoot under 200 yrds and want to maybe use these bullets for varmit hunting(fox,coyote,bobcat,coons) any else use these? |
| I ran across a few websites while researching powders for work. Someome posted an excerpt from this already .mil ammo pdf This is from last year and is a pdf from General Dynamics R&D. General Dynamics pdf |
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Originally Posted By Eric802:
Originally Posted By machinisttx:
Hmm, I'll have to experiment, but I suspect that accuracy will be reduced at the increased pressure. My best accuracy with TAC and a 75gr BTHP was at around 23 grains; can't imagine why I'd want to push it much past that. That is what I landed on too out of my SS410 BCM barreled upper. |
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Originally Posted By jlficken:
Originally Posted By Eric802:
Originally Posted By machinisttx:
Hmm, I'll have to experiment, but I suspect that accuracy will be reduced at the increased pressure. My best accuracy with TAC and a 75gr BTHP was at around 23 grains; can't imagine why I'd want to push it much past that. That is what I landed on too out of my SS410 BCM barreled upper. With REALLY hot loads my 16" was putting 5 rounds in small .75" clusters @ 50 yards using pulled SS109s so it depends on the projectile. |
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Originally Posted By brywilli:
I just ordered some ss109's and was hoping to get more info for the "official ss109 thread" like favorite powder, what accuracy to expect from pulled bullets, etc. My question is more of everyones fav powder. I have Varget, Benchmark, H335, Ramshot Terminator, and several IMR powders. My rifle is a 20" dpms with 1and 9 twist. My favorite load is 55gr HRDY v-max over 25.5grs of varget. This will be my first time loading and shooting heavier bullets so any advice is welcomed. I am also wondring how accurate I can expect these to be. I've never tried pulled bullets. I normally shoot under 200 yrds and want to maybe use these bullets for varmit hunting(fox,coyote,bobcat,coons) any else use these? I copied my post from the "Useful Threads" tacked thread near the top of the page. SS-109 loads, I used the start loads for the Speer 62 gr FMJBT (lead core), and worked up. In my rifle these loads are safe, and are 1/2 gr below the first signs of pressure. Reduce these loads by 10% to start. All these loads use LC brass trimmed to 1.750, neck deburred inside and out. Primer pocket swaged, Win SR, pulled SS-109 62 gr FMJBT seated to mid cannelure. Crimped with a Lee FCD (factory crimp die). My rifle has a 1 in 9 twist, 16 ", 5.56 chamber. AA-2230, 24.5 grs. Shoots great. H-335, 25.0 grs. OK load, just that other powders are more accurate. ( In my rifle) BLC2, 26.0 grs. Was my favorite SS-109 load before I tried Tac. Varget, 26.5 grs. Most accurate SS-109 load in my rifle. Just a hassle to load. Tac, 26.0 grs. Another very good load, now my favorite load with ball powder. W-748 25.5 grs. Not accurate in my rifle, your rifle might like. Remember to work your loads up, your rifle may be different from mine. YMMV. Accuracy? Remember these are not match bullets. I get 1 1/2 to 2 inch 10 shot groups at 100 yds. Don't be concerned with pulled bullets. Enjoy the price. 
I've loaded bullets with no pull marks, and bullets with heavy pull marks, I didn't notice much difference between the two. 
Last 3 k I ordered from Hi tech looked like this. These shoot fine. |
Selling agent for Algores carbon credit scam.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other.
Shooting and Reloading, one hobby feeds the other.
|
Originally Posted By InfiniteGrim:
Originally Posted By dryflash3:
Wow, that was some fast shipping.
First pic, just a couple that were just starting to go flat. Second pic, look good to me. Both pictures are of the same brass.
The nail polish on the red ones make it hard to see, but it was the only way I could think of to mark them, but I do like how the nail polish worked out on the green ones, almost looks like primer sealant done in the factory. Plus I looked at my bolt and upper reciever and none of it came off in my gun. Get a black Sharpie - and just write on the sides of the brass casing itself. I can mark my powder charge on there (ie "24.5") and have it be clearly visible even after firing. I load Xterminator exclusively, so thanks for posting all of this data up to compare; I wasn't aware of Ramshot updating their load data. 
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An analogy would be an LEO committing crimes (like downloading illegal movies); it creates a very real problem as character reference: if you're willing to skirt ethics or cheat for convenience, why should strangers have faith in your statements
| Don't know if anyone saw this, but here is a place to get the Military Surplus W844 powder. |
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